Vikings Roster Review

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S197
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by S197 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:11 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:54 pm
S197 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:49 pm


It’s part of the negotiation, he hit all the metrics needed to make himself a free agent. He or his agent asked for this out.
So he was scheduled to get 13 million. What do you think he will make on the open market? More or less? Vikings definitely can't afford more. Probably not even the 13.
I’m not sure, I think some teams will learn from Zeke but there is also a lot of refocus on the run game in the NFL. It will be interesting for sure.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by fiestavike » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:13 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:11 pm
Maelstrom88 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:54 pm


So he was scheduled to get 13 million. What do you think he will make on the open market? More or less? Vikings definitely can't afford more. Probably not even the 13.
I’m not sure, I think some teams will learn from Zeke but there is also a lot of refocus on the run game in the NFL. It will be interesting for sure.
Let him walk and take the compensatory picks.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:15 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:40 pm
Just so there is no more confusion on Griffen.

He cannot be restructured, he cannot be kept on his current contract.

He can only be re-signed. His contract is void and he is free agent.
Thanks for that clarification. I was going by Spotrac, which is good but doesn't include the contract details, as Over the Cap does.

Here's what it says on Over the Cap:
Everson Griffen agreed to a renegotiation for 2019 lowering his base salary to $6.4 million. Griffen can earn up to $1.5 million in per game roster bonus pay ($62,500 per game 46 man active) and ($31,250 per game on 53 man). Griffen can earn $500,000 through incentives for achieving 8 sacks and remaining on the roster for all of preseason and regular season. 2020-2022 contract years void if Griffen gets 6 sacks or plays 57% of defensive snaps in 2019; if so he would become a free agent in 2020.
So yeah, Griffen's contract is now expired. He's a free agent. That would also explain why he's already in the media saying he'd like to remain a Viking.

My question is: Most sources have the Vikings between $4 million and $5 million OVER the cap for 2020 at this point. Does that take into account that Griffen's contract is no longer part of the equation?
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Maelstrom88 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:56 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:15 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:40 pm
Just so there is no more confusion on Griffen.

He cannot be restructured, he cannot be kept on his current contract.

He can only be re-signed. His contract is void and he is free agent.
Thanks for that clarification. I was going by Spotrac, which is good but doesn't include the contract details, as Over the Cap does.

Here's what it says on Over the Cap:
Everson Griffen agreed to a renegotiation for 2019 lowering his base salary to $6.4 million. Griffen can earn up to $1.5 million in per game roster bonus pay ($62,500 per game 46 man active) and ($31,250 per game on 53 man). Griffen can earn $500,000 through incentives for achieving 8 sacks and remaining on the roster for all of preseason and regular season. 2020-2022 contract years void if Griffen gets 6 sacks or plays 57% of defensive snaps in 2019; if so he would become a free agent in 2020.
So yeah, Griffen's contract is now expired. He's a free agent. That would also explain why he's already in the media saying he'd like to remain a Viking.

My question is: Most sources have the Vikings between $4 million and $5 million OVER the cap for 2020 at this point. Does that take into account that Griffen's contract is no longer part of the equation?
I'm assuming no. If it is taking that into consideration then they have serious problems :ripple:
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by CharVike » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:11 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:15 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:40 pm
Just so there is no more confusion on Griffen.

He cannot be restructured, he cannot be kept on his current contract.

He can only be re-signed. His contract is void and he is free agent.
Thanks for that clarification. I was going by Spotrac, which is good but doesn't include the contract details, as Over the Cap does.

Here's what it says on Over the Cap:
Everson Griffen agreed to a renegotiation for 2019 lowering his base salary to $6.4 million. Griffen can earn up to $1.5 million in per game roster bonus pay ($62,500 per game 46 man active) and ($31,250 per game on 53 man). Griffen can earn $500,000 through incentives for achieving 8 sacks and remaining on the roster for all of preseason and regular season. 2020-2022 contract years void if Griffen gets 6 sacks or plays 57% of defensive snaps in 2019; if so he would become a free agent in 2020.
So yeah, Griffen's contract is now expired. He's a free agent. That would also explain why he's already in the media saying he'd like to remain a Viking.

My question is: Most sources have the Vikings between $4 million and $5 million OVER the cap for 2020 at this point. Does that take into account that Griffen's contract is no longer part of the equation?
IMO Griff will stay here. Let's face it if he hits the market will teams be flying after him? I don't think so. He's old and he went through that troubled period whatever that was. But there could be a team looking for a situational pass rusher that may jump. I think his heart is here. I also feel he will be a great player to keep around. He's a solid veteran who is admired by his teammates and I think he helps the young guys. All that stuff helps big time.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:35 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:15 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:40 pm
Just so there is no more confusion on Griffen.

He cannot be restructured, he cannot be kept on his current contract.

He can only be re-signed. His contract is void and he is free agent.
Thanks for that clarification. I was going by Spotrac, which is good but doesn't include the contract details, as Over the Cap does.

Here's what it says on Over the Cap:
Everson Griffen agreed to a renegotiation for 2019 lowering his base salary to $6.4 million. Griffen can earn up to $1.5 million in per game roster bonus pay ($62,500 per game 46 man active) and ($31,250 per game on 53 man). Griffen can earn $500,000 through incentives for achieving 8 sacks and remaining on the roster for all of preseason and regular season. 2020-2022 contract years void if Griffen gets 6 sacks or plays 57% of defensive snaps in 2019; if so he would become a free agent in 2020.
So yeah, Griffen's contract is now expired. He's a free agent. That would also explain why he's already in the media saying he'd like to remain a Viking.

My question is: Most sources have the Vikings between $4 million and $5 million OVER the cap for 2020 at this point. Does that take into account that Griffen's contract is no longer part of the equation?
It still includes Griffen's contract.

If we don't re-sign Griffen, who will get 12-18 million per year in free agency, depending on who he signs with, we could realistically have 5 million to work with after cutting Rhodes and Joseph and signing Mack, Harris and the other essential smaller contracts and rookies, as much as 15 if you really push the problem down the line and screw yourself in future years.

A lot of that could go to Waynes if the Vikings really like him, they need to sign some free agent CB and can't bank on finding a #3 or #4 CB ready to go in the draft.

What I don't think will happen, is Reiff getting cut or any big FA signings on the offensive line.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by mansquatch » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:05 am

Griffen is a prime candidate to restructure. He wants to stay here and has said so.

Reiff is likely a cap casualty.

I wouldn't write off the CB yet. Hughes has been on IR twice in his short career. As we saw this post season availability is an important ability in the Defensive Secondary. That is a feather in Wayne's cap. Alexander's also has remained relatively healthy and aside from his late season trip to IR, put together probably his best overall season as a pro. I can see them asking Rhodes to restructure his deal to free up space. The question is if he will do it. He had his worst year since 2014, but he played excellent in the playoffs when they needed him the most.

I'm very curious about the surprise Defensive Coaching vacancies this offseason. There is more to those moves, we just do not know what it is. I suspect we'll see change here, but I'm not sure what.

I have no idea what they are going to do cap wise. This is why they pay Bryzinski and Spielman. They are going to lose some of these guys, no way around it.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:23 am

mansquatch wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:05 am
Griffen is a prime candidate to restructure. He wants to stay here and has said so.

Reiff is likely a cap casualty.

I wouldn't write off the CB yet. Hughes has been on IR twice in his short career. As we saw this post season availability is an important ability in the Defensive Secondary. That is a feather in Wayne's cap. Alexander's also has remained relatively healthy and aside from his late season trip to IR, put together probably his best overall season as a pro. I can see them asking Rhodes to restructure his deal to free up space. The question is if he will do it. He had his worst year since 2014, but he played excellent in the playoffs when they needed him the most.

I'm very curious about the surprise Defensive Coaching vacancies this offseason. There is more to those moves, we just do not know what it is. I suspect we'll see change here, but I'm not sure what.

I have no idea what they are going to do cap wise. This is why they pay Bryzinski and Spielman. They are going to lose some of these guys, no way around it.
Cutting Reiff without a replacement creates a hole on the Oline and makes the worst unit on offense worse, not better.

If Hill weren't also a free agent I could see them cutting Reiff and going with him. He played well in limited action at tackle. Better than O'Neil did against the niners and ONeil is our best Olineman. Cutting Reiff and signing Hill to start probably is a push in cap space, and it could possibly even cost the Vikings more.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Dames » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:33 am

mansquatch wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:05 am

Reiff is likely a cap casualty.
Cutting Reiff would be a mistake. That's not a position that's easy to fill, and while he wasn't a world beater, he was definitely not the worst part of the line. I'm sure they'll approach him about a restructure, but if I were him, I probably wouldn't be too interested in that. In the end, they will probably be stuck with him cap number. I just can't see them cutting him and creating a worse mess. Of course, I think the line is not that far off as it is.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I certainly won't be happy if they just flat out cut him unless suddenly they have an immediate replacement.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:35 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:35 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:15 pm

Thanks for that clarification. I was going by Spotrac, which is good but doesn't include the contract details, as Over the Cap does.

Here's what it says on Over the Cap:



So yeah, Griffen's contract is now expired. He's a free agent. That would also explain why he's already in the media saying he'd like to remain a Viking.

My question is: Most sources have the Vikings between $4 million and $5 million OVER the cap for 2020 at this point. Does that take into account that Griffen's contract is no longer part of the equation?
It still includes Griffen's contract.

If we don't re-sign Griffen, who will get 12-18 million per year in free agency, depending on who he signs with, we could realistically have 5 million to work with after cutting Rhodes and Joseph and signing Mack, Harris and the other essential smaller contracts and rookies, as much as 15 if you really push the problem down the line and screw yourself in future years.

A lot of that could go to Waynes if the Vikings really like him, they need to sign some free agent CB and can't bank on finding a #3 or #4 CB ready to go in the draft.

What I don't think will happen, is Reiff getting cut or any big FA signings on the offensive line.
I'm seeing some stuff online that the Vikings feel Mack Alexander is a priority, and that they are likely to move him outside as a carrot to re-sign with the Vikings. If they don't move him outside, they'll likely lose him to a team that would, which is where he wants to be. Rumblings are that the Vikings feel he could do a great job there.

I think I'd be fine with that. It would easily allow the Vikings to let go of either Rhodes or Waynes, and maybe both. I like Trae Waynes in some ways. He's a good tackler and he's actually pretty good in man coverage. But I don't like him in other ways. Zimmer plays a lot of two-deep zone, and he's not a great zone corner. He's also anything but a ball hawk. For those reasons, I don't see him as a $10million+ corner. I mean, for most teams, that's #1 CB money. If he can get it somewhere else, good for him.

Rhodes is a prime candidate to be a cap casualty. If he were still playing at 2017 levels, sure, you'd keep him. But this was a bad year for Xavier, and his cap savings would be huge.

Griffen really loves playing for the Vikings. I wonder at this point if he'd take a reduced role as a situational pass rusher (meaning also a reduced salary). He's still got a lot of burst, but at 32, is he really an every-down DE? You're right, if he hits free agency, are teams going to get into a bidding war for him? Seriously doubt it. But he has value to us.

Again, I'll go back to Brandon Scherff. When healthy, he's the guard we all want ... great in space, but also very powerful. A tackle in a guard's body. I have no idea how to create the cap space to get him, but we need a player like him on the O-line. Keep Elflein as a backup swing man C-G, but not in the starting lineup. A change is desperately needed there.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by CharVike » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:06 pm

mansquatch wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:05 am
Griffen is a prime candidate to restructure. He wants to stay here and has said so.

Reiff is likely a cap casualty.

I wouldn't write off the CB yet. Hughes has been on IR twice in his short career. As we saw this post season availability is an important ability in the Defensive Secondary. That is a feather in Wayne's cap. Alexander's also has remained relatively healthy and aside from his late season trip to IR, put together probably his best overall season as a pro. I can see them asking Rhodes to restructure his deal to free up space. The question is if he will do it. He had his worst year since 2014, but he played excellent in the playoffs when they needed him the most.

I'm very curious about the surprise Defensive Coaching vacancies this offseason. There is more to those moves, we just do not know what it is. I suspect we'll see change here, but I'm not sure what.

I have no idea what they are going to do cap wise. This is why they pay Bryzinski and Spielman. They are going to lose some of these guys, no way around it.
Hughes is a guy I keep forgetting about. He'll be back and as you posted Alexander. Those two could be our starters. I'd be ok with that. They are guys that should improve as Alexander has shown. Hughes has shown the ability to play the ball and I think that's important for a D. I hope they try and keep Griff. He's a team player that still has pass rush ability. Rushing the passer is key. Even avg CBs look good when there's pressure. Maybe the defensive coaching changes will help. Sometimes change is good. It's not like we had the best D anyway. Couldn't get much worse.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by mansquatch » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:55 pm

Hughes can't stay healthy.

Put it this way: Look at our CBs in terms of injury issues: (My arm chair rankings)

Alexander
Waynes
Hill
Rhodes
Hughes

Hughes has been on IR twice since he was drafted. He is good when healthy, but can he stay on the field? Hill needs to not get suspended. Waynes has had some bumps along the way, but mostly he continues to be available. Rhodes is banged up, no way around it BUT he played hurt and usually plays well, but was this year the start of his downward trajectory? Kapp's read on Waynes is dead on. He doesn't play the ball well, which is a skill that could help up the defense to another level.

Also, if they shift Alexander outside, then who plays the slot? We know Zimmer can teach that, but who picks it up? That could be Hughes I suppose. Additionally we want Hughes returning punts again. (Sorry Scherels, loved you, but fumbles in the playoffs are no bueno.)

Another angle on this is if they cut two of them they need to draft somebody, which probably eats up the 1st round pick. (AGAIN!) IMO this would suck. I think they really need to invest this pick in an interior player on either the OL or the DL. Or a QB.

I have no idea how this cookie is going to crumble. How the team evals and views the future of these players will also play into it. We'll learn a lot about that in the coming weeks.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:31 pm

I am currently working on a mock offseason now. I've been working on it on and off all day. All I can say is WOW!! I am having some serious trouble on who to keep and who to let walk in free agency. Like you dont want to create more holes but you want to find ways to save money. Just crazy
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Dames » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:50 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:31 pm
I am currently working on a mock offseason now. I've been working on it on and off all day. All I can say is WOW!! I am having some serious trouble on who to keep and who to let walk in free agency. Like you dont want to create more holes but you want to find ways to save money. Just crazy
Looking forward to it!
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by 808vikingsfan » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:53 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:31 pm
I am currently working on a mock offseason now. I've been working on it on and off all day. All I can say is WOW!! I am having some serious trouble on who to keep and who to let walk in free agency. Like you dont want to create more holes but you want to find ways to save money. Just crazy
Always look forward to this PHP. May differ on opinions but this is one thing I really enjoy reading.

Can you do a mock where we trade Cousins and a couple of future #1's for a shot at a top QB? kidding.
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