Vikings Roster Review

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Mothman
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Mothman » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:13 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:55 am
Yeah but they are saying it should. And I’m simply saying it’s unrealistic.
Of course it's unrealistic but if you simply read between the lines a little it's pretty obvious that what's meant is there are few "must keep" players on the roster and some fans would like to see major changes made with an eye toward the future, not simply the present. I doubt anybody seriously believes the Vikings can or will trade the majority of their defensive starters.They're just saying the'd like to see serious personnel changes.
I get discussing the roster in the offseason but calling out rebuild mode and trading everyone including our towel boy is quite over the top if you ask me. I guess I should expect this because it’s the same thing at the end of every season on here. Like I’m just as frustrated as anyone but let’s keep a level head here guys
Suggesting the team should rebuild IS level-headed. The Vikings need a lot of work to be a genuine Super Bowl contender. They've finished the last 3 seasons with double-digit losses in important games. Not making serious changes simply invites more of the same.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Raz » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:33 pm

To not make or acknowledge the need for roster change is foolish. The Vikings are clearly a decent team average in every way if the goal is 9 or 10 wins then it is a perfect combo.

We are all homers here nobody around the nfl thinks the roster is awesome we had one all pro and seldom fill the pro bowl just simply average players

I just hope they can plug in a few new players and get lucky here and there next year maybe get 11 or 12 wins and play at home in January

Because lets face it this team will look a lot like next years team
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Maelstrom88 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:39 pm

I think Waynes and Mac will both be gone. Meaning Hughes will probably be a starter. He was a first round pick. It's time. Hill will also be back.

I would like to have Griffen back but he's a free agent if he wants to be because he had 8 sacks and I don't think they'll be able to afford him.

Joseph and Reiff are the guys I see as cap cuts if they don't renegotiate. I expect Rhodes to be back.
Last edited by Maelstrom88 on Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:45 pm

Mothman wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:13 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:55 am
Yeah but they are saying it should. And I’m simply saying it’s unrealistic.
Of course it's unrealistic but if you simply read between the lines a little it's pretty obvious that what's meant is there are few "must keep" players on the roster and some fans would like to see major changes made with an eye toward the future, not simply the present. I doubt anybody seriously believes the Vikings can or will trade the majority of their defensive starters.They're just saying the'd like to see serious personnel changes.
I get discussing the roster in the offseason but calling out rebuild mode and trading everyone including our towel boy is quite over the top if you ask me. I guess I should expect this because it’s the same thing at the end of every season on here. Like I’m just as frustrated as anyone but let’s keep a level head here guys
Suggesting the team should rebuild IS level-headed. The Vikings need a lot of work to be a genuine Super Bowl contender. They've finished the last 3 seasons with double-digit losses in important games. Not making serious changes simply invites more of the same.
Jim there is a giant difference between rebuilding and reloading. Rebuilding is starting with a bare bones roster, dumping most of your star players and starting from scratch. Which first of all, won’t happen with zimmer here. That often happens with a new regime. Second, the team needs to be reloaded if anything. I’ve never heard of 10-6 playoff teams that were good enough to knock a team like the saints out go into rebuild mode the following season.

I think the problem is, some fans aren’t understanding what “rebuilding” actually is. For example, we rebuilt our attempted to rebuild in 2011 when Favre left. Favre was gone, rice was gone, harvin was traded, hutch retired, McKinnie walked, half the defense walked, etc. And we open up the draft with our “QB of the future” who was obviously not good.

We aren’t anywhere close to that stage IMO. That team had a lot of age on it. This one not so much. We need to keep finding ways to add more and more talent to this roster, not clean out lockers. Yes some guys need to go but making “serious” changes like trading Cook or Harrison Smith? No.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:51 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:39 pm
I think Waynes and Mac will both be gone. Meaning Hughes will probably be a starter. He was a first round pick. It's time. Hill will also be back.

I would like to have Griffen back but he's a free agent and I don't think they'll be able to afford him.

Joseph and Reiff are the guys I see as cap cuts if they don't renegotiate. I expect Rhodes to be back.
No way both Wayne’s and Alexander go. Keeping your oldest and worst CB in Rhodes but letting the two younger (and at this point higher ceiling CBs walk) is a poor approach. If Rhodes and Hughes are our starting CBs next year with a question mark at nickel, I’ll throw up. You can already put us down as the leagues worst pass defense.

Griff I would like back as well. I could see him being a greenway type and being a forever Viking. It’s going to be all about what he’s willing to take

I love Joseph but he is declining. Just doesn’t seem as dominant and is losing some quickness. However I think 3 tech is a bigger need so I’d look to keep linval another year instead of opening 2 holes there. Joseph is still good enough to be a decent run stopper
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Maelstrom88 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:04 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:51 pm
Maelstrom88 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:39 pm
I think Waynes and Mac will both be gone. Meaning Hughes will probably be a starter. He was a first round pick. It's time. Hill will also be back.

I would like to have Griffen back but he's a free agent and I don't think they'll be able to afford him.

Joseph and Reiff are the guys I see as cap cuts if they don't renegotiate. I expect Rhodes to be back.
No way both Wayne’s and Alexander go. Keeping your oldest and worst CB in Rhodes but letting the two younger (and at this point higher ceiling CBs walk) is a poor approach. If Rhodes and Hughes are our starting CBs next year with a question mark at nickel, I’ll throw up. You can already put us down as the leagues worst pass defense.

Griff I would like back as well. I could see him being a greenway type and being a forever Viking. It’s going to be all about what he’s willing to take

I love Joseph but he is declining. Just doesn’t seem as dominant and is losing some quickness. However I think 3 tech is a bigger need so I’d look to keep linval another year instead of opening 2 holes there. Joseph is still good enough to be a decent run stopper
I'd love to keep Waynes but I don't see how they're going to afford it. We are already about 5 million in the hole cap wise. Is the cap going to go up this off-season? Waynes will get paid on the open market. Mac I'm ok with letting go as he is small and doesn't make very many plays on the ball. They're going to have to flat out cut players with the least dead cap hit like Linval and Griffen or renegotiate with about 3 or 4 guys. They have been very good at managing it in the past but it's very tight right now and several guys are getting paid way above their talent level.

Take a look at some of the contracts and tell me who you would cut if they refuse to negotiate.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/minnesota-vikings/
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Mothman » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:13 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:45 pm
Jim there is a giant difference between rebuilding and reloading. Rebuilding is starting with a bare bones roster, dumping most of your star players and starting from scratch. Which first of all, won’t happen with zimmer here. That often happens with a new regime. Second, the team needs to be reloaded if anything. I’ve never heard of 10-6 playoff teams that were good enough to knock a team like the saints out go into rebuild mode the following season.

I think the problem is, some fans aren’t understanding what “rebuilding” actually is. For example, we rebuilt our attempted to rebuild in 2011 when Favre left. Favre was gone, rice was gone, harvin was traded, hutch retired, McKinnie walked, half the defense walked, etc. And we open up the draft with our “QB of the future” who was obviously not good.

We aren’t anywhere close to that stage IMO. That team had a lot of age on it. This one not so much. We need to keep finding ways to add more and more talent to this roster, not clean out lockers. Yes some guys need to go but making “serious” changes like trading Cook or Harrison Smith? No.
I understand. I've always felt the difference between rebuilding and reloading is primarily semantic but I see the distinction you're making. I don't think rebuilding necessarily means starting from scratch but the Vikings need serious changes. I tend to refer to that that as "rebuilding" because I think the team needs a hard reboot from the GM on down, regardless of their record this season. I've felt for a long time that teams often go into a rebuilding mode too late. It's not necessary to wait for a complete mess to develop.

Anyway, whether we call it rebuilding or reloading, it seems to me the team needs a great deal of change and if they're going to progress toward winning a Super Bowl then 2-3 years from now the roster should look quite different.

Even if they keep Spielman and Zimmer for the indefinite future, they likely need to make major personnel changes/improvements at the line of scrimmage and in the secondary. I think it would be a mistake to get rid of Smith at this point in his career but Cook? Unfortunately, he plays a position at which it might be difficult to get great trade value but otherwise, I'd be more than open to the idea. Mattison's impressive and Cook has missed 40% of the team's games over his first 3 seasons. He's good but with a track record like that, they have to think very carefully about giving him a substantial contract.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by HardcoreVikesFan » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:32 pm

I suspect there will some tenured players that won't make the roster next season. Personally, I think it is time for players like Rhodes, Joesph, Reiff, and Stephen to go. Everson probably will go if can't be dramatically restructured. It won't happen but I want Pat Elflein off the team - good riddance.

Unfortunately, I am not sure how many big wholesale changes will be made this offseason. I really hope we find a way to make some changes here or there. If we bring back the same team, I don't expect us to improve much more than what our team - a ceiling of about 11 wins.

Whatever happens this offseason, I finally hope this is the year we finally get an offensive line constructed. It is beyond mind boggling to have the SAME ISSUE every offseason.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:40 pm

Just so there is no more confusion on Griffen.

He cannot be restructured, he cannot be kept on his current contract.

He can only be re-signed. His contract is void and he is free agent.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Maelstrom88 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:45 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:40 pm
Just so there is no more confusion on Griffen.

He cannot be restructured, he cannot be kept on his current contract.

He can only be re-signed. His contract is void and he is free agent.
Is the ball in his court as to whether he wants to void it or not?
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by S197 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:46 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:31 am
Maelstrom88 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:24 pm


I like the idea of trading Cook. Great talent but can't carry the load and stay healthy. Also, I don't believe in giving runningbacks a lot of money.

I agree Griffen will get more than we can afford. Joseph is old and can't rush the passer. I have a lot of confidence in Odenigbo. Whats Jalen Holmes up to? I'd like to see a pass rushing DT in the first or an offensive tackle to replace Reiff (who I would also cut). Elflein needs to be replaced too.
Well this is kind of my point. We can’t just walk away from every underperforming player otherwise we are going to create too many holes to fill. We need to pick and choose wisely who we need to walk away from.

Trading cook is the last thing I’d do. I think it would be absolutely asinine to trade him. He’s a top back in the nfl. How many RBs stay healthy from start to finish anymore? Hence why teams go with 2 RBs. Cook is the focal point of this offense. And I don’t understand why anyone thinks griffen is a lock to go elsewhere. There is so little we know about these contracts and what can be done. We have the best cap guy in the nfl. All guys did last year was say we’d be losing a ton because of our cap issues. And we lost what? Richardson? A guy that was on a one year rental contract. Not saying we aren’t going to lose anyone but I think we’re going overboard with some of these takes. At this point, why don’t we just cut everyone and start from scratch
With Cook, the reason I’d field trade offers is he’s going to get PAID next year and it’s unlikely to be from the Vikings. We’re unlikely to have the cap and also overpaying for a RB has been shown to be a very poor move. Trade him now and at least get something in return.

But I’m also of the opinion this team isn’t going anywhere next year, which I assume you disagree (nothing wrong with that obviously) so I can understand wanting to keep him from your perspective.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by S197 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:49 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:45 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:40 pm
Just so there is no more confusion on Griffen.

He cannot be restructured, he cannot be kept on his current contract.

He can only be re-signed. His contract is void and he is free agent.
Is the ball in his court as to whether he wants to void it or not?
It’s part of the negotiation, he hit all the metrics needed to make himself a free agent. He or his agent asked for this out.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Maelstrom88 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:50 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:46 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:31 am


Well this is kind of my point. We can’t just walk away from every underperforming player otherwise we are going to create too many holes to fill. We need to pick and choose wisely who we need to walk away from.

Trading cook is the last thing I’d do. I think it would be absolutely asinine to trade him. He’s a top back in the nfl. How many RBs stay healthy from start to finish anymore? Hence why teams go with 2 RBs. Cook is the focal point of this offense. And I don’t understand why anyone thinks griffen is a lock to go elsewhere. There is so little we know about these contracts and what can be done. We have the best cap guy in the nfl. All guys did last year was say we’d be losing a ton because of our cap issues. And we lost what? Richardson? A guy that was on a one year rental contract. Not saying we aren’t going to lose anyone but I think we’re going overboard with some of these takes. At this point, why don’t we just cut everyone and start from scratch
With Cook, the reason I’d field trade offers is he’s going to get PAID next year and it’s unlikely to be from the Vikings. We’re unlikely to have the cap and also overpaying for a RB has been shown to be a very poor move. Trade him now and at least get something in return.

But I’m also of the opinion this team isn’t going anywhere next year, which I assume you disagree (nothing wrong with that obviously) so I can understand wanting to keep him from your perspective.
I agree. I would not want to give Cook anything other than an incentive laden deal. Special talent but can't stay healthy and I don't think championship teams invest big dollars in that position anymore.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by Maelstrom88 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:54 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:49 pm
Maelstrom88 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:45 pm


Is the ball in his court as to whether he wants to void it or not?
It’s part of the negotiation, he hit all the metrics needed to make himself a free agent. He or his agent asked for this out.
So he was scheduled to get 13 million. What do you think he will make on the open market? More or less? Vikings definitely can't afford more. Probably not even the 13.
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Re: Vikings Roster Review

Post by CharVike » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:29 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:44 am
CanUDiggsIt? wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:15 am

I think we need to bring back Everson as a veteran leader to groom the next Hunter (as Robison did for us). Try to convince him of this role, as I do not see him being a starter for much longer. I like what I see from Odenigbo, but he is still young and raw.

As for Reiff, we need to restructure his contract because he isn't worth a nickel. Rhodes needs to take a pay cut or say bye bye.
They just can't afford Griffen. He will make 15 million per year based on this year's performance, which is precisely why he did what he did with his contract this past off season. Would love to have him back, but he is good as gone.

Reiff is our highest graded lineman according to PFF. That is not based on just run blocking either, he apparently was our best pass blocker? Seems legit. :lol: He isn't great, he isn't bad. He is an average LT making average LT money.

I think Rhodes is back at a much reduced salary. He will not make top 10 money as a Viking next season.
I rag on Reiff more than anyone. But if he's our best based on PFF we are in worse shape than I thought. It's the opposite. Keep him and we need 4 new guys. That's impossible. Without these grades based on my eye Reiff is avg. He gets abused by certain players like the 55 guy from GB. I like this center but I feel the team rushed him in there. He lacked a base and could get shoved on his back. That's a weak player at the point. His draft reports noted that he needed a stronger base. That's probably true. I expect him to improve. I don't like relying on a draft pick to fill the hole. That's risky. Also puts the player in a tough spot.
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