Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

Post by Dames »

I'l take this as a good sign that Thielen is healthy:

Doctson waived.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/11/2 ... sh-doctson

I was really hoping they would try to use him as a deep threat, but I guess that's not happening. With Thielen back it's not quite as necessary. Both Diggs and Thielen can and will go deep. Bisi makes a nice WR3.

Plus, with Irv and Rudy making plays, we don't need Doctson.
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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

Post by CanUDiggsIt? »

Dames wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:25 am I'l take this as a good sign that Thielen is healthy:

Doctson waived.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/11/2 ... sh-doctson

I was really hoping they would try to use him as a deep threat, but I guess that's not happening. With Thielen back it's not quite as necessary. Both Diggs and Thielen can and will go deep. Bisi makes a nice WR3.
I totally agree, and just in the knick of time! We will need all hands on deck against Seattle. Bisi and Irv have really come along nicely and provide a little relief valve for our stars.
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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

Post by VikingLord »

Dames wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:25 am I'l take this as a good sign that Thielen is healthy:

Doctson waived.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/11/2 ... sh-doctson

I was really hoping they would try to use him as a deep threat, but I guess that's not happening. With Thielen back it's not quite as necessary. Both Diggs and Thielen can and will go deep. Bisi makes a nice WR3.

Plus, with Irv and Rudy making plays, we don't need Doctson.
I hope Thielen is fully healed and they are confident whatever the issue was is resolved.

For all the hype around Wilson's ability to go deep, the Vikings should have plenty of their own chances to do the same against the Seahawks. I'm still waiting to see them send Irv Smith over the top. He's fast enough and big enough to be able to take advantage of single coverage over the middle. Not sure why we haven't seen him on deep middle routes more, but maybe the coaches are saving those plays for games like this.
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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

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VikingLord wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:47 am I hope Thielen is fully healed and they are confident whatever the issue was is resolved.

For all the hype around Wilson's ability to go deep, the Vikings should have plenty of their own chances to do the same against the Seahawks. I'm still waiting to see them send Irv Smith over the top. He's fast enough and big enough to be able to take advantage of single coverage over the middle. Not sure why we haven't seen him on deep middle routes more, but maybe the coaches are saving those plays for games like this.
Right, I've wondered the same about Irv. Seems like we could get a pretty nice mismatch for him deep. Maybe they actually are saving it.
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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

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For me, this is the prove it game. This is the game that will show if this team is for real or a pretender. This game will show if Kirk is a good quarterback, or if he is who I thought he was. This game will determine if the Vikings have a chance at a first round bye or not. The Vikings are 0-5 against the Seahawks since 2012. Will this be the game that changes that? The Vikings are 3-3 on MNF since 2014 (including a loss @ Seattle last year). Will this be the game that gets them above .500? The Vikings are 3-3 after the Bye since 2014.

I want to be a homer and always predict a Vikings win. I just don't think it will happen. I think the Vikings will drop this game, by 10+ points. Based on everything we know about Zimmer, this team, the history against the Seahawks, how they perform in primetime games, and how they come out flat after the bye half the time, I don't see a win happening. I would love to be wrong, I just currently don't see a win in the cards.
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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

akvikingsfan wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:50 pm For me, this is the prove it game. This is the game that will show if this team is for real or a pretender. This game will show if Kirk is a good quarterback, or if he is who I thought he was. This game will determine if the Vikings have a chance at a first round bye or not. The Vikings are 0-5 against the Seahawks since 2012. Will this be the game that changes that? The Vikings are 3-3 on MNF since 2014 (including a loss @ Seattle last year). Will this be the game that gets them above .500? The Vikings are 3-3 after the Bye since 2014.

I want to be a homer and always predict a Vikings win. I just don't think it will happen. I think the Vikings will drop this game, by 10+ points. Based on everything we know about Zimmer, this team, the history against the Seahawks, how they perform in primetime games, and how they come out flat after the bye half the time, I don't see a win happening. I would love to be wrong, I just currently don't see a win in the cards.
So let me ask you ... is it binary for you?

In other words, if the Vikings lose -- under any circumstance -- then the Vikings and Cousins are pretenders?

For me, it depends on the circumstances. If both teams play really well, and Seattle squeaks by with a win, I don't see that as the Vikings being pretenders. Lots of teams with 4 or more losses have made deep playoff runs. If we go in there and stink it up, I'll be concerned. But there's nothing in this season's history to suggest they'll go in there and stink it up.

The Vikings have lost three games -- by 5, 10, and 3 points. Other than the Chicago game, they've had a chance to win every game. If that history suggests the Vikings are pretenders, then I guess I have a mixed up idea of what a contender is.

And I gotta tell you ... assuming you thought Kirk Cousins was a loser, you're already wrong. If he hasn't convinced you yet -- a 125.6 rating over the past 7 weeks, 18 TDs to 1 pick (that doinked off Stefon Diggs' head), and most importantly a 6-1 record, including two 4th-quarter wins, 2 prime-time wins, and 3 road wins -- then you can't be convinced. Not trying to bust on you. Those are facts.

You should prepare yourself for Cousins receiving a pretty substantial extension ... because it's going to happen.
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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

Dames wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:25 am I'l take this as a good sign that Thielen is healthy:

Doctson waived.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/11/2 ... sh-doctson

I was really hoping they would try to use him as a deep threat, but I guess that's not happening. With Thielen back it's not quite as necessary. Both Diggs and Thielen can and will go deep. Bisi makes a nice WR3.

Plus, with Irv and Rudy making plays, we don't need Doctson.
Man, I hope this means Thielen is back to normal. Our offense has really been clicking, but I think he will bring the running game back to full potential. With AT in there, you can't load the box.

You mentioned Bisi ... he's improving weekly on those short and intermediate routes. We don't use a lot of 13 personnel, but he's there if we need him, and we can rely on him to do his job.

Irv keeps improving every week. Tight end is one of the toughest positions for rookies to pick up, and he's beginning to figure it out and get his legs under him. I just have a feeling one of these weeks, he's going to bust out with a big game, 100 yards or more and a couple tuddys.

Can hardly stand waiting until Monday night!
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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:58 pm So let me ask you ... is it binary for you?

In other words, if the Vikings lose -- under any circumstance -- then the Vikings and Cousins are pretenders?

For me, it depends on the circumstances. If both teams play really well, and Seattle squeaks by with a win, I don't see that as the Vikings being pretenders. Lots of teams with 4 or more losses have made deep playoff runs. If we go in there and stink it up, I'll be concerned. But there's nothing in this season's history to suggest they'll go in there and stink it up.

The Vikings have lost three games -- by 5, 10, and 3 points. Other than the Chicago game, they've had a chance to win every game. If that history suggests the Vikings are pretenders, then I guess I have a mixed up idea of what a contender is.
Fair statement. I should clarify. If this team goes into Seattle and plays like they did in the first half against Green Bay, the entire Chicago game, and the first half of the Denver game, then I will see them as pretenders. If however, they go in and play like they did against Kansas City and come away with a loss, then I could still see them as contenders. So to answer your question, no I do not see it as binary. My statement over simplified my position. Of course there are more factors to consider than just the out come.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:58 pm And I gotta tell you ... assuming you thought Kirk Cousins was a loser, you're already wrong. If he hasn't convinced you yet -- a 125.6 rating over the past 7 weeks, 18 TDs to 1 pick (that doinked off Stefon Diggs' head), and most importantly a 6-1 record, including two 4th-quarter wins, 2 prime-time wins, and 3 road wins -- then you can't be convinced. Not trying to bust on you. Those are facts.
Kirk's stats, while eye popping, are the same as they were when he was in Washington - he puts up good numbers. That has never been in question. I stated this several weeks ago - what will sell me on Kirk is if he is able to beat a good team, on the road, in primetime. That has yet to happen. If he goes into Seattle and has a good game where we walk away with a win, I'll be sold. But as of yet, he has not shown that he can play in the big games and win them. While those stats are the facts they have to be looked at in context. Let's get a good game out of him this weekend and I'll be on the bandwagon.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:58 pm You should prepare yourself for Cousins receiving a pretty substantial extension ... because it's going to happen.
If at the end of the season the front office and coaching staff decide Kirk's performance warrants an extension then so be it. I just hope that it is not a monster contract that prohibits the team from being able to make other signings.
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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:04 pm Irv keeps improving every week. Tight end is one of the toughest positions for rookies to pick up, and he's beginning to figure it out and get his legs under him. I just have a feeling one of these weeks, he's going to bust out with a big game, 100 yards or more and a couple tuddys.
I think it's coming for Irv too. With Thielen back it's going to put a lot more pressure on defenses. We have some great weapons. Diggs, Thielen, Cook, Irv, and Rudy. And they will be on the field together a lot.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:04 pm Can hardly stand waiting until Monday night!
I'm ready for Monday night. 2 Sundays in a row without Viking's football is going to be difficult to handle. At least we have Thanksgiving tomorrow. Hopefully I'll go into a food coma for a few days to help pass the time.
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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

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VikingLord wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:47 am
Dames wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:25 am I'l take this as a good sign that Thielen is healthy:

Doctson waived.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/11/2 ... sh-doctson

I was really hoping they would try to use him as a deep threat, but I guess that's not happening. With Thielen back it's not quite as necessary. Both Diggs and Thielen can and will go deep. Bisi makes a nice WR3.

Plus, with Irv and Rudy making plays, we don't need Doctson.
I hope Thielen is fully healed and they are confident whatever the issue was is resolved.

For all the hype around Wilson's ability to go deep, the Vikings should have plenty of their own chances to do the same against the Seahawks. I'm still waiting to see them send Irv Smith over the top. He's fast enough and big enough to be able to take advantage of single coverage over the middle. Not sure why we haven't seen him on deep middle routes more, but maybe the coaches are saving those plays for games like this.
He does not track the ball well over his shoulder. I don't think you'll see them target him over the top. Crossing routes and YAC are his bread and butter. Maybe we'll see some post and corner routes on occasion.
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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

Post by vikeinmontana »

808vikingsfan wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:09 pm Been watching a few Seahawks game this year. I thought losing Dissly at TE really hurt the team. He was starting to have a monster year. They're not blowing people out. They're just making the plays needed to win which is scary if you ask me. Even at 9-2, I don't think they've hit their stride yet. Seems like their defense is starting to gel. Their run game is hard to stop. Carson is beastmode 2.0, Penny is a great changeup. Metcalf is turning into a nice receiver. And they have the best qb in the league.

A lot of injury "if's" in this game. Thielen, Smith, Lockett, Clowney..


Hoping it's a competitive game.
I’m friends with the Dissly’s here in Bozeman and have known will since he was a kid. It’s awesome to see how far he’s developed his game and the respect he’s getting nationally. He was VERY important to that offense before getting hurt. I agree with your point.

I’m a homer though and like the vikes to pull out a signature win on the road!
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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

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fiestavike wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:24 am He does not track the ball well over his shoulder. I don't think you'll see them target him over the top. Crossing routes and YAC are his bread and butter. Maybe we'll see some post and corner routes on occasion.
The reason I mentioned the deep routes is that he ran plenty of them when he was in college and seemed to track the ball well enough then.

Speaking of that college tape, what stood out to me about Smith in his highlight tape was his speed and ability to get open downfield. He's almost a hybrid TE - a bigger guy, but one who can run and beat coverage. I assumed the Vikings took him even though they technically didn't "need" a TE because they thought he could create some coverage mismatches. Based on what I've seen so far, I still believe that, but it doesn't seem like they're running him on many deeper routes (nor Rudolph, for that matter).

I get why that may be in Stefanski's scheme. Someone needs to run those shorter crossing routes. But Smith should be a guy that could find a favorable downfield shot or two during a game ala what the 49ers managed with Kittle against the Packers. I'd love to see them try to slip him out into a deep middle route on a 3rd-and-short play where they line up in a tight run formation, for example. See if he can get into a man situation with the safety and then try to hit him over the top off a run fake.
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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

Post by 808vikingsfan »

vikeinmontana wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:27 am
808vikingsfan wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:09 pm Been watching a few Seahawks game this year. I thought losing Dissly at TE really hurt the team. He was starting to have a monster year. They're not blowing people out. They're just making the plays needed to win which is scary if you ask me. Even at 9-2, I don't think they've hit their stride yet. Seems like their defense is starting to gel. Their run game is hard to stop. Carson is beastmode 2.0, Penny is a great changeup. Metcalf is turning into a nice receiver. And they have the best qb in the league.

A lot of injury "if's" in this game. Thielen, Smith, Lockett, Clowney..


Hoping it's a competitive game.
I’m friends with the Dissly’s here in Bozeman and have known will since he was a kid. It’s awesome to see how far he’s developed his game and the respect he’s getting nationally. He was VERY important to that offense before getting hurt. I agree with your point.

I’m a homer though and like the vikes to pull out a signature win on the road!
Cool! He and Wilson definitely had chemistry early in the season. He was leading the lead in TDs (TE's) before he got hurt.
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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

Post by fiestavike »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:10 pm
fiestavike wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:24 am He does not track the ball well over his shoulder. I don't think you'll see them target him over the top. Crossing routes and YAC are his bread and butter. Maybe we'll see some post and corner routes on occasion.
The reason I mentioned the deep routes is that he ran plenty of them when he was in college and seemed to track the ball well enough then.

Speaking of that college tape, what stood out to me about Smith in his highlight tape was his speed and ability to get open downfield. He's almost a hybrid TE - a bigger guy, but one who can run and beat coverage. I assumed the Vikings took him even though they technically didn't "need" a TE because they thought he could create some coverage mismatches. Based on what I've seen so far, I still believe that, but it doesn't seem like they're running him on many deeper routes (nor Rudolph, for that matter).

I get why that may be in Stefanski's scheme. Someone needs to run those shorter crossing routes. But Smith should be a guy that could find a favorable downfield shot or two during a game ala what the 49ers managed with Kittle against the Packers. I'd love to see them try to slip him out into a deep middle route on a 3rd-and-short play where they line up in a tight run formation, for example. See if he can get into a man situation with the safety and then try to hit him over the top off a run fake.
I've only been able to find one example of his making an over the shoulder catch in college (though I'm sure there are more), but between that and his ineptitude in a drill specifically designed to test that skill (a drill which he totally bombed) I'm not optimistic about them finding success in targeting him deep.
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Re: Vikings @ SEA - Pregame Thread

Post by VikingLord »

fiestavike wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:26 pm I've only been able to find one example of his making an over the shoulder catch in college (though I'm sure there are more), but between that and his ineptitude in a drill specifically designed to test that skill (a drill which he totally bombed) I'm not optimistic about them finding success in targeting him deep.
I wasn't aware of the drill you're talking about, but if that is the case then I understand why they're not running him on deeper routes. Is that a drill he ran at the Combine?

My impression of how Stefanski/Kubiak utilize the TE in the passing game is that they have them running the short and intermediate routes. I don't recall many (any?) deeper completions or attempts to the TE over the middle this year regardless of who is in at TE on the play. Cousins has hit his TEs over the middle, but usually in or near the red zone. So I assume the lack of deep routes and targets is due to scheme and not skills.

That's even more reason to give it a try IMHO. If the Vikings haven't put that on tape all year, most likely Seattle won't expect it and won't be prepared to defend it. Assuming Smith (or Rudolph) can make the catch, that might be a fantastic opportunity to get a big play or two down the field.
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