Xavier Rhodes should be benched....NOW!!!

[CanUDiggsIt?]

I am starting to believe that teams know what they are up against with Zimmer's defense, especially their coverages. This plays a factor in our inability to stop the pass. Rhodes has been in position many times to make the play, but can't get it done like he used to. Waynes has been hit or miss, usually miss in coverage, and everyone else is so young or inexperienced that they are hesitant to make a play. It's almost like Zimmer tells his guys "stay with your guy, but don't try to intercept the ball, play it safe".

[fiestavike]

I suspect if his targets by game were tracked, we'd see an uptick starting around the Lions game.

He's also given up some high profile throws in situations where I think he was rarely targeted before, and those tend to be over-weighted in the minds of fans who aren't used to seeing Rhodes giving up a lot of big plays or TDs. I know I have been surprised several times this year, expecting to see Waynes or Alexander in coverage and instead it's Rhodes. I used to only expect to hear Rhodes' name called if a flag was thrown, usually for defensive holding, but now he's showing up on the bad guy's highlights.

But he's almost never outright beat, so he's got to start making some plays on the ball, as do all of the non-safety DBs on the field.

With the way the Vikings have played up front, if the CB's can start making some plays on the ball this defense will be shutdown.

Player profiler does track them. His targets went down after the Lions game, because on film, Rhodes actually had tight coverage in that game. Stafford was just on and made perfect throws into that tight coverage. Coaches and QBs not biased by how much Rhodes makes, saw that coverage on film and decided to throw elsewhere. Like you said, he had not been getting outright beat while guys like Waynes and Hughes were, so why not take the easier pass and throw at those guys?

I expect his targets to go up for sure after this past game though. There were a couple of tight coverage completions against him, but there were also a couple of wide open completions against him.

It's an interesting philosophical question. With where the game is today, a DB who can keep the ball in front of them and occasionally break up a pass might be as good as its going to get. Being good enough to force the tough throw and the tough catch might in the end be more effective than going for the interception and occasionally gambling. Or, to put it another way, if you are playing the odds, it might be the better gamble.

That certainly seems to fit with the rest of Zimmer's defensive philosophy. The pass rush for instance is really designed around going through the OL, not around them. Its patience, and reading keys, and keeping contain. Our defense as a whole doesn't seem to be focused on making a big play, but on making it harder for the offense to make a play. It is read and react. If the O can consistently make the plays in those tight windows, we are going to have a tough road.

Would this defense be better if they actually tried to force the issue? Break the play rather than forcing it to be executed at a high level? The Vikings approach didn't work well against the Eagle's 2 years ago, when the read and react approach made it look like a defense playing on roller skates. This season also has had its frustrations, though the Vikings are in the top half of the league defensively. We currently sit in 15th in team defense, 10th in DVOA. Would we bet better of worse if we had more aggression and Zimmer put some hellfire into his defense?

[fiestavike]

I suspect if his targets by game were tracked, we'd see an uptick starting around the Lions game.

He's also given up some high profile throws in situations where I think he was rarely targeted before, and those tend to be over-weighted in the minds of fans who aren't used to seeing Rhodes giving up a lot of big plays or TDs. I know I have been surprised several times this year, expecting to see Waynes or Alexander in coverage and instead it's Rhodes. I used to only expect to hear Rhodes' name called if a flag was thrown, usually for defensive holding, but now he's showing up on the bad guy's highlights.

But he's almost never outright beat, so he's got to start making some plays on the ball, as do all of the non-safety DBs on the field.

With the way the Vikings have played up front, if the CB's can start making some plays on the ball this defense will be shutdown.

Player profiler does track them. His targets went down after the Lions game, because on film, Rhodes actually had tight coverage in that game. Stafford was just on and made perfect throws into that tight coverage. Coaches and QBs not biased by how much Rhodes makes, saw that coverage on film and decided to throw elsewhere. Like you said, he had not been getting outright beat while guys like Waynes and Hughes were, so why not take the easier pass and throw at those guys?

I expect his targets to go up for sure after this past game though. There were a couple of tight coverage completions against him, but there were also a couple of wide open completions against him.

It's an interesting philosophical question. With where the game is today, a DB who can keep the ball in front of them and occasionally break up a pass might be as good as its going to get. Being good enough to force the tough throw and the tough catch might in the end be more effective than going for the interception and occasionally gambling. Or, to put it another way, if you are playing the odds, it might be the better gamble.

That certainly seems to fit with the rest of Zimmer's defensive philosophy. The pass rush for instance is really designed around going through the OL, not around them. Its patience, and reading keys, and keeping contain. Our defense as a whole doesn't seem to be focused on making a big play, but on making it harder for the offense to make a play. It is read and react. If the O can consistently make the plays in those tight windows, we are going to have a tough road.

Would this defense be better if they actually tried to force the issue? Break the play rather than forcing it to be executed at a high level? The Vikings approach didn't work well against the Eagle's 2 years ago, when the read and react approach made it look like a defense playing on roller skates. This season also has had its frustrations, though the Vikings are in the top half of the league defensively. We currently sit in 15th in team defense, 10th in DVOA. Would we bet better of worse if we had more aggression and Zimmer put some hellfire into his defense?

[Purplepain2018]

When I posted this a few weeks ago, I was met with people being snarky and saying Rhodes is the best we have...let him play!!! Well, again after being TORCHED by the Seahawks and getting a personal foul penalty that really started the Seahawks third quarter blitz, I again say BENCH RHODES NOW!!! This guy is too much of a liability right now. He cannot cover anybody, he looks really confused and then he gets these really dumb penalties. There is no way anyone can stand up for this guy and he has been playing like this the whole year.

[halfgiz]

Zimmer would never bench Rhodes.which is part of the problem.
Now add our own precious turnstile, Mr. Elflien. Both Dozier and probably Samia are better, but yet again, they sit the bench while Elf does his best to turn Cousins into a free lunch

[StumpHunter]

He was bad for the second straight week.

On the bright side Mac and Wayne's had solid games.

[TSonn]

He was bad for the second straight week.

He's been bad all year. And his decline started last year. If he's not allowing his WR to run free, he's committing PI. Last night his stupid unneccesary roughness penalty shifted momentum and the Seahawks took advantage. He made a nice play knocking the ball loose on Metkalf, but again, it was something like 3rd and 5 and he gave up 7 yards easily - was an easy 3rd down conversion if not for a lucky fumble.

[Maelstrom88]

Rhodes is definitely not the player he once was and Zimmer either needs to knock him down the depth chart or start giving him more help over the top. I'd prefer Wayne's and Hughes on the outside at this point.

[Bowhunting Viking]

I hate to see it, but Rhodes truly has become a liability to our D. He clearly isn't the shutdown corner he used to portrayed as. He is getting burned alot. Many times it appears that he is in position on coverage but seems to lose the coverage and allow a completion that a few years ago he would have broken up.
He definitely has lost a step, and it seems like he just gets lost and confused in trying to cover . Balls that he would have batted down or even picked are now sure completions. It's like hes just a step out of position now.
I will give him credit for the fumble, but really that's about the only bright spot I really remember from last nights game.
But the MOST concerning point for me is the stupid penalties that he commits, and they seem to ALWAYS be at the worst possible times as far as situations in games.
Early in his career I thought we had a mainstay for a long time. The sudden drop off in his play and ability is truly alarming and suprising. It like the dude just "got old " overnight.
I never thought I would see the day that instead of always throwing away from him, the opposing QBs would be targeting him as the weak link in the secondary.
It just sucks because he seemed like he was gonna be a a great asset for many years. Now it's just the opposite.
I understand that everyone is gonna get burned occasionally, have a bad play and be out of position and give up a big play. The key word is occasionally.
Now its turned around to where he Occasionally has a good play.
And like I said, the penalties are just unacceptable anymore. It's way too many stupid penalties that a veteran player should not be committing and really killing his team with. So many, actually most of his penalties seem to come when we make a huge stop that could help shift some momentum back in our favor. Instead they are back breakers.
I don't know, it wouldn't break my heart to see him on the sidelines more. And that's a shame because I truly never expected to say that about him.
I know that's just one problem, but it's really becoming a BIG one.
Still wanna puke today from last nights loss. And I didn't have a drop of alcohol so it isnt a hangover. It's the Vikings we gave that one away sickness that's just all too familiar.
I'm not giving up. I never will. But it just doesn't look real promising. But ya never know. No matter what every week I will be watching and hoping.
For me, losing that way hurts way worse than getting beat soundly. We coulda taken that game last night. We didn't give up. But all that doesn't matter cuz it's still an L in the standings.
Still hoping... but really bummed this morning.

[Bowhunting Viking]

He was bad for the second straight week.

He's been bad all year. And his decline started last year. If he's not allowing his WR to run free, he's committing PI. Last night his stupid unneccesary roughness penalty shifted momentum and the Seahawks took advantage. He made a nice play knocking the ball loose on Metkalf, but again, it was something like 3rd and 5 and he gave up 7 yards easily - was an easy 3rd down conversion if not for a lucky fumble.

You posted this as I was typing my assessment of Rhodes. I think most of us here are pretty much feeling the same way.

[TSonn]

If we were doing dunce cap awards on the losses this season, X would have 2 and you could argue for 3. He's responsible for our losses against KC and Seattle. His first half against GB covering Adams was also a main reason why GB got off to a 21-0 lead.

Too bad. He went from underrated to overrated really quickly. I don't think it's something he can just snap out of at this point, either. So Zimmer either needs to give him more help (which would lead to being even less aggressive with blitzing) or bench him. IMO, I'd like to see what Holton Hill would bring on the outside.

[Bowhunting Viking]

If we were doing dunce cap awards on the losses this season, X would have 2 and you could argue for 3. He's responsible for our losses against KC and Seattle. His first half against GB covering Adams was also a main reason why GB got off to a 21-0 lead.

Too bad. He went from underrated to overrated really quickly. I don't think it's something he can just snap out of at this point, either. So Zimmer either needs to give him more help (which would lead to being even less aggressive with blitzing) or bench him. IMO, I'd like to see what Holton Hill would bring on the outside.

Sometimes I think that Fred Smoot is using ether on Rhodes before the game and suiting up in Rhodes uniform and trying to play again.

[TSonn]

If we were doing dunce cap awards on the losses this season, X would have 2 and you could argue for 3. He's responsible for our losses against KC and Seattle. His first half against GB covering Adams was also a main reason why GB got off to a 21-0 lead.

Too bad. He went from underrated to overrated really quickly. I don't think it's something he can just snap out of at this point, either. So Zimmer either needs to give him more help (which would lead to being even less aggressive with blitzing) or bench him. IMO, I'd like to see what Holton Hill would bring on the outside.

Sometimes I think that Fred Smoot is using ether on Rhodes before the game and suiting up in Rhodes uniform and trying to play again.

LOL! Well, Smoot at least made some INTs when he wasn't letting his WR run free...

[Bowhunting Viking]

Sometimes I think that Fred Smoot is using ether on Rhodes before the game and suiting up in Rhodes uniform and trying to play again.

LOL! Well, Smoot at least made some INTs when he wasn't letting his WR run free...

Yes he did but he made alot of really stupid penalties and bad plays too. He was another overpaid DB IMO. Lol. It just sucks every game listening to every broadcast crew always rant about the tough Zimmer D and praise them. Then we let a team run all over us, pass all over us and then when we do make a great stand some dumb #### penalty negates it.
Dont get me wrong we do have some outstanding defensive players who play their guys out. We really should be alot better than what we are showing.
Unfortunately games are won on the field, not on paper or pregame commentaries.

[TSonn]

LOL! Well, Smoot at least made some INTs when he wasn't letting his WR run free...

Yes he did but he made alot of really stupid penalties and bad plays too. He was another overpaid DB IMO. Lol. It just sucks every game listening to every broadcast crew always rant about the tough Zimmer D and praise them. Then we let a team run all over us, pass all over us and then when we do make a great stand some dumb #### penalty negates it.
Dont get me wrong we do have some outstanding defensive players who play their guys out. We really should be alot better than what we are showing.
Unfortunately games are won on the field, not on paper or pregame commentaries.

Yeah we're definitely at the point where I think other coaches would be able to get better production from our defense. We've got so much talent and have used so many high draft picks on these guys to be a weakness on this team.

DE: Griffen (3RP), Hunter (3RP)
DL: Joseph (Big FA Signing), Stephen (7RP)
LB: Barr (1RP), Kendricks (2RP), Gideon (4RP)
CB: Rhodes (1RP), Waynes (1RP), Alexander (2RP), Hughes (1RP)
S: Smith (1RP), Harris (Undrafted)

Give me an offensive-minded head coach and a solid defensive coordinator and you'd get better production out of that talent.