Case Keenum

[Pondering Her Percy]

If someone were to question Cousins and say he wouldnt have made the Keenum miracle throw to Diggs or the Favre throw to Greg Lewis is one thing. The throw to Rudy in the playoffs though? Yeah I would have confidence in Cousins making that throw. It was a 10 yard throw. That's just not an impressive throw to me. 90% of the time, Rudy would have just went out of bounds there but given the defender tried to make a play there was room to keep going. That's a 10 yard out. Any QB could make that throw. Very few QBs could make that throw to Greg Lewis that Favre had. Keenum, it was more out of desperation mode and being lucky that the defender missed the tackle on Diggs. It was a good throw but not intended to be a TD. It was a better play by Diggs and Keenum had a clean pocket. Regardless, that throw to Rudy just doesnt impress me.

Side note: Man I forgot that Rudy actually had some decent speed to him. Watching him run now is painful.

And that's where we depart views, really. That's exactly the kind of play I don't think Cousins can make in high pressure situations and especially making anything happen against good defenses (Seattle was consistently ranked the best in 2015). It was the biggest knock on him coming out of Washington and the pattern has mostly continued here.

When we're comparing QBs like Case Keenum, Kirk Cousins, and Teddy Bridgewater you start to kind of split hairs (though I think Bridgewater still has the potential to be much better than the other two). It's the little things about them that set them apart and they aren't necessarily statistical. In that sense I'll take both Case Keenum and Bridgewater over Cousins at this point. The Vikings offense is actually more talented than when Keenum was QB even though they look worse - though whether or not it's all about the coordinator is debatable.

Here's hoping Cousins changes my mind against the Eagles this week!

If it wasnt the coordinator, you'd see Case Keenum have success somewhere at some point and he hasnt. And has been given up on twice in 2 years. And I've said before, Denver had plenty of talent to have success last year. It didnt happen with him at the helm.

Sure I guess Bridgewater still has potential because he's still young but IMO he's hit his ceiling for the most part. He's still showing he doesnt have the confidence or ability to push the ball downfield. I dont care what he did against Tampa. Why should Teddy get credit or praise for lighting up a bad defense but Cousins cant?

As for the throw by Teddy in the Seattle game, yeah we are splitting hairs with whichever ex-viking QB we are comparing to Cousins. But Cousins has been in big moments, Cousins has made big throws. In those moments and with those throws, I can guarantee he's thrown 10 yard outs in those games. Hell, Cousins throw vs. GB in week 2 last year to Thielen to tie the game was 30 times more impressive than Teddys. And that is a throw right there that I do NOT see Teddy making. Mainly because he doesnt push the ball down field. He's the king of check downs and managing a football game. Teddy isnt making that throw to Thielen vs GB. I get it, Kirk is shaky under pressure, but what happened vs. Denver and Arizona in 2015? Under pressure and getting strip sacked.

Check these out:

Cousins 4th quarter comebacks/game winning drives: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... r=CousKi00

Teddy 4th quarter comebacks/game winning drives: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... r=BridTe00

I'm not so much looking at the fact that Cousins has many more than Teddy does, but the yardage, the yards per attempt, the QB rating, the TDs, the completion percentage, etc. Practically everything else. Yeah maybe Cousins hasnt showed up enough in close games here, but he's done it multiple times in his career. No less, 2 of the games they show for Teddy are one that Barr won for us in OT (TB) and the Jets game where Teddy had to make arguably the easiest throw in football to Jarius Wright who took it for 80 yards. Cousins didnt have a rating below 91.7 in 14 games listed. Teddy had 2 in the 70's and 2 in the 80's. That's 4 of 6 games where he played below average for the most part. He had two games out of 6 where he had a higher rating that Kirk's lowest rating in the 14 games he has listed.

I dont get why anyone is defending Teddy under pressure. I honestly couldnt tell you one throw he had when the game was on the line where I was like "wow, this guy has it". Literally not one. I dont know if I could tell you many in general. He just never impressed me as a passer. He might have more room for improvement, but I have yet to see it.

[Pondering Her Percy]

If someone were to question Cousins and say he wouldnt have made the Keenum miracle throw to Diggs or the Favre throw to Greg Lewis is one thing. The throw to Rudy in the playoffs though? Yeah I would have confidence in Cousins making that throw. It was a 10 yard throw. That's just not an impressive throw to me. 90% of the time, Rudy would have just went out of bounds there but given the defender tried to make a play there was room to keep going. That's a 10 yard out. Any QB could make that throw. Very few QBs could make that throw to Greg Lewis that Favre had. Keenum, it was more out of desperation mode and being lucky that the defender missed the tackle on Diggs. It was a good throw but not intended to be a TD. It was a better play by Diggs and Keenum had a clean pocket. Regardless, that throw to Rudy just doesnt impress me.

Side note: Man I forgot that Rudy actually had some decent speed to him. Watching him run now is painful.

It's so obvious how the two different sides to this argument are looking at things from a totally different perspective. PHP, you look at the numbers, and the talent of Cousins. You see this play as a play that 99.9% of the time should be completed by an NFL QB. And all of that is true. But I look at things from a view based more on the intangibles. Some guys, for whatever unexplained reasons, become the .1% in a very pressure or crucial situation. We'll never know if Cousins would have made that throw. All I know is Bridgewater did. I can only base my opinion on other situations, and there have been pretty many, in Cousins time where he finds a way to not come through. Look back to the Bears game this year. Coming out in the second half, down 10-0, and receiving the ball, with a chance to prove a point that the second half isn't going to be a repeat of the first half, on the very first play, Cousins fumbles the ball. Now we can play "What If" here and say, if Keenum or Teddy is in that situation they dump a short pass off that goes for a 20 yard gain. And then you will say, "Yeah...EVERY QB will make that throw". Well, NO..Cousins didn't make ANY throw because he fumbled the ball.

Yes, I know these are all hypothetical, but after a while a player just loses my confidence as a fan. And if he has lost my confidence, maybe he has also lost some with his teammates, which also effect their performance. Even the defensive players.

When I played softball, we had two pitchers. Bob was beyond the shadow of a doubt the better pitcher, but for some reason, we won just about every time Ronny pitched for us. And we became aware of it. We went into the game with almost this subconscious confidence that we didn't have when Bob pitched. We played better.

That's the way sports works. It can't always be seen in the numbers, stats, or player attributes.

I agree with what you're saying 100%. But like I mentioned above, it can go both ways. Is Teddy Bridgewater going to make that throw to Thielen vs GB that Cousins did in week 2 last year with :35 seconds to go?? I'm going to sit here and tell you know. For us to sit here and say "this guy can make this throw but not that throw" and vice versa, is doing nothing but wasting time and energy. None of it can be proved.

My main point with all of this is that from what I've seen, Teddy is no better under pressure than Kirk is. Maybe guys are believing this more so because his nickname was "GUMP" (good under major pressure) in high school or college but that hasnt showed up in the pros. Sure he "looks the part" because he doesnt seem like he's rattled and is always very straight faced but games like Denver and Arizona he did get rattled. He did fold up in both of those games. I think his overall ability to read a defense just isnt there to be honest. Given how often he checks down or makes the easy throw instead of attempting a deep ball

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

It's so obvious how the two different sides to this argument are looking at things from a totally different perspective. PHP, you look at the numbers, and the talent of Cousins. You see this play as a play that 99.9% of the time should be completed by an NFL QB. And all of that is true. But I look at things from a view based more on the intangibles. Some guys, for whatever unexplained reasons, become the .1% in a very pressure or crucial situation. We'll never know if Cousins would have made that throw. All I know is Bridgewater did. I can only base my opinion on other situations, and there have been pretty many, in Cousins time where he finds a way to not come through. Look back to the Bears game this year. Coming out in the second half, down 10-0, and receiving the ball, with a chance to prove a point that the second half isn't going to be a repeat of the first half, on the very first play, Cousins fumbles the ball. Now we can play "What If" here and say, if Keenum or Teddy is in that situation they dump a short pass off that goes for a 20 yard gain. And then you will say, "Yeah...EVERY QB will make that throw". Well, NO..Cousins didn't make ANY throw because he fumbled the ball.

Yes, I know these are all hypothetical, but after a while a player just loses my confidence as a fan. And if he has lost my confidence, maybe he has also lost some with his teammates, which also effect their performance. Even the defensive players.

When I played softball, we had two pitchers. Bob was beyond the shadow of a doubt the better pitcher, but for some reason, we won just about every time Ronny pitched for us. And we became aware of it. We went into the game with almost this subconscious confidence that we didn't have when Bob pitched. We played better.

That's the way sports works. It can't always be seen in the numbers, stats, or player attributes.

I agree with what you're saying 100%. But like I mentioned above, it can go both ways. Is Teddy Bridgewater going to make that throw to Thielen vs GB that Cousins did in week 2 last year with :35 seconds to go?? I'm going to sit here and tell you know. For us to sit here and say "this guy can make this throw but not that throw" and vice versa, is doing nothing but wasting time and energy. None of it can be proved.

My main point with all of this is that from what I've seen, Teddy is no better under pressure than Kirk is. Maybe guys are believing this more so because his nickname was "GUMP" (good under major pressure) in high school or college but that hasnt showed up in the pros. Sure he "looks the part" because he doesnt seem like he's rattled and is always very straight faced but games like Denver and Arizona he did get rattled. He did fold up in both of those games. I think his overall ability to read a defense just isnt there to be honest. Given how often he checks down or makes the easy throw instead of attempting a deep ball

I agree with practically everything you just said. I never saw a great QB in Bridgewater, but he was and still is young. I think he is an above average QB when on a good team. Probably not a QB at this stage that can make a team more than they are other than maybe psychologically. He's an easy guy to like and root for. I'm sure his team mates love him. I think if he were in Minnesota, I'd have him backing up Cousins, BUT I gotta tell you....I'd be very close to letting him get his shot to see what he can do. Cousins has just about lost all his chances to prove to me he's our guy.

[YikesVikes]

My issue is the moving of the goalposts. You stated that Peterson was the sole reason for our wins. I pointed out that he performed poorly during that stretch and we still won. Call Teddy a game manager if you will but expecting a guy with 7 or so starts his rookie season to instantly be an all-pro is silly. Teddy did take a step in his 2nd season. All of this while playing under center to facilitate AP's need for singleback. How old was Teddy at that point 22 or 23? I still have more faith with him under center than Kirk. When things went wrong with Teddy, it was on to the next play. When things go wrong with Kirk, it snowballs. Kirk has a higher ceiling but a much lower basement.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

And really...what's wrong with being a "Game Manager" anyhow? Everyone uses that term, including the media, as a negative. If you look at all the QB's throughout history that were given that Game Manger tag, that usually means they were winning. So it means they are the type of QB that is put on a good team, and doesn't screw things up.

[Alaskan]

Teddy is a cool customer and a great leader. In a past era, he would have been a hall of famer. I believe that's why so many people love him and his game. Many of us who were around when they played something closer to real football can appreciate the characteristics he has that would have made him special and rare in that era...characteristics that most of the "all time greats" from this era of inflated offensive statistics don't have, and that would have prevented them from being even competent QBs in the 70s, 80s and early 90s.

Love the post. I share your thoughts on Teddy and todays game of football. The only thing I would add is I think he will win a championship in his career. I think he is special and rare in this era as well. Getting a 100k fans (or whatever the number) At the Superdome to chant your name takes something special in any era.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I agree with what you're saying 100%. But like I mentioned above, it can go both ways. Is Teddy Bridgewater going to make that throw to Thielen vs GB that Cousins did in week 2 last year with :35 seconds to go?? I'm going to sit here and tell you know. For us to sit here and say "this guy can make this throw but not that throw" and vice versa, is doing nothing but wasting time and energy. None of it can be proved.

My main point with all of this is that from what I've seen, Teddy is no better under pressure than Kirk is. Maybe guys are believing this more so because his nickname was "GUMP" (good under major pressure) in high school or college but that hasnt showed up in the pros. Sure he "looks the part" because he doesnt seem like he's rattled and is always very straight faced but games like Denver and Arizona he did get rattled. He did fold up in both of those games. I think his overall ability to read a defense just isnt there to be honest. Given how often he checks down or makes the easy throw instead of attempting a deep ball

I agree with practically everything you just said. I never saw a great QB in Bridgewater, but he was and still is young. I think he is an above average QB when on a good team. Probably not a QB at this stage that can make a team more than they are other than maybe psychologically. He's an easy guy to like and root for. I'm sure his team mates love him. I think if he were in Minnesota, I'd have him backing up Cousins, BUT I gotta tell you....I'd be very close to letting him get his shot to see what he can do. Cousins has just about lost all his chances to prove to me he's our guy.

And I completely understand where you're coming from here. As for Cousins though, he has been here for 1 1/4 seasons and has had two different coordinators. So obviously I'm going to say it's pretty premature to say if he's the guy or not. I still want to see what this season brings. He's always been pretty good against Philly so this is a big game. And the following two games are very winnable. We could go from 3-2 to 6-2 real fast. But like I've said before, if we cant judge Case in Washington and Denver because they were "bad teams" and we cant judge Teddy in Minnesota because "his OL and WRs were bad" then why can we judge Cousins in Washington? How is that fair or reasonable? You said Cousins has lost all his chances with you after 1 1/4 seasons, but do you really think that is enough time to run out of chances? No less, his OC's have been far from stellar.

Yeah last year sucked but I've said time and time again, many just thought, "ok the Vikings upgraded their QB, now they should be in the SB". Like I dont know how else to explain this but it's not just THAT easy in the NFL. Look at the Browns, brought in all the talent in the world and they look pathetic. I mean the Eagles won the SB in 2017 and found a way to out smart Bill Belichick but come 2018, they nearly missed the playoffs. They would have if we won week 17. So there are two teams that were in the NFC championship the year before that were both grasping for air in the playoff hunt. And what did the Eagles lose from 2017-2018?? Nothing from a player standpoint. The Eagles were 3rd in PPG and 4th in PA in 2017. In 2018, they were 18th in PPG and 12th in PA. There was a big dip on both sides of the ball. But they did lose Frank Reich. Just like we lost Pat Shurmur. It makes a HUGE difference. It even affected the Super Bowl champions. Consistency is extremely hard to come by on a year by year basis outside of New England. Because if you're that good, you're usually losing coaches, eventually losing players, etc. Yes, we were suppose to "gain" a better QB. We also "gained" Sheldon Richardson. But either way, it doesnt just translate. You start from square one. I have no problem giving Cousins this year and next. I do want to draft a QB this year but I want to see Cousins play out the 3 years and see if we can get some sort of consistency going as a team. Coaches included. It's all about the team as a whole putting it all together. It's not just about Cousins doing his job or the defense doing theirs, or the OL doing theirs, etc. Everyone has to be rolling.

^I have no idea what I just said in that last paragraph, I've been super busy at work and was typing something new every time I had a free minute. If for some reason I didnt make sense just let me know. Sorry about that

[Mothman]

^I have no idea what I just said in that last paragraph, I've been super busy at work and was typing something new every time I had a free minute. If for some reason I didnt make sense just let me know. Sorry about that

It made sense.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

Back in 2014 (I had to look up what season it actually was before I posted this. All I remembered was that this took place in the season where Cousins was eventually benched about hallway through the season and Colt McCoy became the QB for the rest of the year) I was watching the Redskins play the Eagles. Other than my son and myself, everyone else in my family are Eagles fans and I'm surrounded by them at work also. So I always root against the Eagles. At this point, I had probably only seen Cousins twice before and I don't remember the specifics other than in both cases, the Redskins had the ball at the end of the game with a chance to win. What I also remember was that in the first of these games, after the TV camera zoomed in on Cousins, I jokingly made the remark to my son that Cousins had the look of a guy that was peeing his pants and that he wasn't going to win the game. I was right. He choked and he did the same the next time I saw him. So in the Eagles game in 2014, what do you know, the Redskins down by less than a score and a chance to win with around 2 minutes left. I turned to my son and said "I don't think it's gonna happen. This guy is a choker." The Redskins went 4 and out with Cousins throwing three terrible incompletions that match the description of what was mentioned earlier (passes that all NFL QB's should have made). Eagles won which made Cousins 0 for 3 in games that I saw him play in. At that point, I labeled him a loser in my mind, and a few games later he was benched for the year. I figured his days as a starting QB were probably limited, but he came back the next year and the Redskins won a terrible NFC east with a 9-7 record. So maybe those early memories tainted my opinion of him, but he really hasn't done much to change my mind since he's been in Minnesota.

Yes, I do understand that playing under different OC's is difficult, but I also believe that when you're watching a game, you can see when things are happening because of lack of execution. It still seems to me that as the pressure rises, Cousins execution falters.