Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:27 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:03 pm
Bowhunting Viking wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:16 pm
Man you guys need to just stop stoking the guys fire. He's obviously always right, KNOWS for sure that he's always right , isn't gonna ever admit the notion that his opinions aren't the gospel, and will never end his intense hatred of the guy wearing #8.
A buddy at work dealt with the same kind of person and finally just gave up. Oh man, what was it they called that person???? Oh yea.. an EX Wife :D
Solid contribution man. Two posts in a month and both were to attack me.

I am honored.
Just adding a little humor intended for the members who have been enduring your constant arguing and feeling of superiority in your posts.
Yeah your correct , I have only posted twice lately. I've still been following the threads off and on, but I'm out enjoying the outdoors.
I'll just be honest with ya, my wife comes from a large family. She has a brother in law ,who if I didn't know better, I would swear he was posting here as you. Her mother spent a yr and 3 months in cancer facility before she passed. Most of the family, especially myself, had to learn to just try and realize it was better to just realize how he was and either ignore it or laugh it off.
Soooo.. I decided to try and help the others laugh it off, cuz constantly arguing with some people is such a waste of precious time.
Been there, done that.. so slag away on me all you want if it helps your ego. I'm cool with it. I enjoy the members here who realize that we are fans, many of us real hardcore, but we haven't been hired as the teams G.M. yet.
Oh wait.. the wife just said I have a phone call from a Mr. Wilf. Gotta go.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:56 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:20 pm

It says a ton about your mentality.
lol ok thanks dude

Again, it says a lot about your mentality that you can decide 100% that a rookie QB is done based on 8 games, not even an entire season.
Lol when did I use the word “done”? The thing is, he’s never been an accurate passer. Why would you think that’s all of the sudden going to change? Cam Newton isn’t a good passer but he’s still around the league leading his team to mediocre seasons. He’s had 3 winning seasons in 8 years. I never said Jackson is “done”. I said that he won’t ever be a good passer or even close to the passer Cousins is.

Either way, if you going to question me because I’m judging him off of 8 games.....well, so are you and you’re going to bat for the guy. Because his coaches think he can become a good passer. Pretty sure Rex Ryan said the same thing about Mark Sanchez. Along with practically every coach in the nfl that talks up their QB. It’s not like the coaches are gonna say, yeah he’ll suck as a passer for his career. So you have nothing to go off of other than what his coaches said. So you’re wasting your time and going nowhere with it
So nothing. Thought so.


AGAIN, I don’t have the time to go back and hunt for what you said in this post or that post. I’m a teacher and own my own business. I get on the board when I have a free minute, post and get off. I don’t have time to sit in front of the computer and try to hunt down your posts. I don’t need to prove to anyone else the crap that comes out of your mouth. Everyone has already seen it for themselves and you continue to tick more and more people off with your arrogance and belittling when someone proves you wrong.

Calling a player who is second in the NFL in turnovers terrible at protecting the football seems pretty fair. 6th in the NFL in turnovers since becoming a starters supports that. You can provide facts that don't actually contradict what I say all you want, doesn't change the FACT he turned the ball over a lot this year, and throughout his entire career.


It’s just you ignoring the facts I posted. You’re hanging your hat on him losing those fumbles because he somehow fumbles a certain way. When it was simply bad luck. Because never in his career has he lost 7 fumbles other than 2018. It’s just an easy stat for you to nitpick
Why would I have to worry about moving on from Case Keenum as the backup to Patrick Mahomes? You just don't make any sense sometimes.
You literally referred to Bradford and case and said you’d trade Bradford and move on from someone with no upside (I’m guessing you’re referring to case there). So my question is, what would you do if you wanted to trade Bradford away and move on from case? As if you took over as GM in 2017.

And you can cry and whine about this all you want, but I could about 150% guarantee that you weren’t pushing to draft Pat Mahomes when teddy went down. Because you were an entire year away from his class. You weren’t sitting there in 2016 and saying tank the season so we can draft Mahomes in 2017. You’re so full of shi# it’s not even funny. You have zero proof of it, nobody will ever believe you and you sound pathetic claiming that it’s what you would do. TRUST ME, you might like to puff your chest out like you know everything, but you didn’t have a clue about Mahomes an entire year ahead of time. You know it, I know it and everyone on here knows it. Get over yourself buddy
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Raptorman » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:33 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:43 am



If you want to make the sample larger, he has the 6th most in the NFL since 2015 when he took over as a full time starter. Big Ben has the most, so it isn't as if you can't throw a lot of picks or fumble the ball away a ton and still not be a winning QB, but Big Ben has been able to get away with it because when he is on, he is unstoppable, and he tends to be more on than off after throwing a bad pick.
So we have Ben at one, and Cousins at 6. Who is 2-5?
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:29 am

Raptorman wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:33 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:43 am



If you want to make the sample larger, he has the 6th most in the NFL since 2015 when he took over as a full time starter. Big Ben has the most, so it isn't as if you can't throw a lot of picks or fumble the ball away a ton and still not be a winning QB, but Big Ben has been able to get away with it because when he is on, he is unstoppable, and he tends to be more on than off after throwing a bad pick.
So we have Ben at one, and Cousins at 6. Who is 2-5?
Sorry, Ben wasn't #1, he was tied with Cousins for 5th. Ben was just #1 in picks. #1 in turnovers was Bortles, #2 was Winston, #3 was Eli, #4 was Rivers.

I actually think Cousins most comparable QB among recent HOF QBs is Big Ben. Stands forever in the pocket, takes a shot as he is being hit, and turns the ball over a lot. The biggest difference between the two is that Cousins isn't a complete piece of trash human being, and is actually a good guy, and on the field, Ben just makes more plays. He puts his team in a bad spot with a pick, and then in the next offensive possession scores in 3 plays.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by fiestavike » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:38 am

CharVike wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:33 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:52 pm


I'll amend it to say 'Kirk sucked last year'. We can remove 'badly' if you prefer. As for his yards etc, means nothing to me. He was a poor QB last year. Not the worst by any means.
Basically a Jameis Winston clone in your thought process. OK got it. Your another one who blames every loss on Cousins. To start off re-watch the 1st Packer game. Yea he lost it. Or the Ram game. Yea another he lost had nothing to do with the D giving up and not even trying. I could go on but I'm not.
I am? :?
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by fiestavike » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:49 am

I wonder if we could put the past behind us for a moment and try a conversation that goes toward interesting analysis. Here's my question for all: Are you hopeful that Kirk Cousins will play better this year than he did last year? If so, what changes made in personnel or scheme do you anticipate being most constructive? If not, what additional changes in personnel or scheme should be made to put him in a better position to succeed?

The whole 'fan's assigning blame game' is incredibly tedious, so I pray we can avoid going down the 'rick not being an idiot' or 'having a line that can block for two seconds' kind of 'analysis'. Anybody up for taking a shot at it?
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Raptorman » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:15 am

fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:49 am
I wonder if we could put the past behind us for a moment and try a conversation that goes toward interesting analysis. Here's my question for all: Are you hopeful that Kirk Cousins will play better this year than he did last year? If so, what changes made in personnel or scheme do you anticipate being most constructive? If not, what additional changes in personnel or scheme should be made to put him in a better position to succeed?

The whole 'fan's assigning blame game' is incredibly tedious, so I pray we can avoid going down the 'rick not being an idiot' or 'having a line that can block for two seconds' kind of 'analysis'. Anybody up for taking a shot at it?
I think the plays that they will be running will play into Kirks skills better than last year. If there is one thing I have noticed over the years it is that it is easier to fit the plays to the QB than the QB to the plays. Cousins did well on bootlegs and getting out of the pocket, well, when there was a pocket. I think we will see more of that at the beginning of the year to start the season.

Having an offensive line that well, isn't offensive will help.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:31 am

fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:49 am
I wonder if we could put the past behind us for a moment and try a conversation that goes toward interesting analysis. Here's my question for all: Are you hopeful that Kirk Cousins will play better this year than he did last year? If so, what changes made in personnel or scheme do you anticipate being most constructive? If not, what additional changes in personnel or scheme should be made to put him in a better position to succeed?

The whole 'fan's assigning blame game' is incredibly tedious, so I pray we can avoid going down the 'rick not being an idiot' or 'having a line that can block for two seconds' kind of 'analysis'. Anybody up for taking a shot at it?
Good idea. I think this offense is going to be a completely new look compared to last year. I dont think it will specifically be Kirk that plays better, I think it will be the offense as a whole. I will make a bold prediction right now and say Dalvin Cook will be top 5 in the NFL in rushing yards and all purpose yards by seasons end (as long as he stays healthy).

We've all heard many of times that Kirk's great off of play action. Well you arent fooling anyone on defense if you dont have a running game teams worry about. Flip ran a ton of play action but didnt run the ball. There is nothing more difficult for a defense than if an offense is just as good running the ball as they are passing. Because you dont know what's coming. THAT's where play action works wonders.

I think the main thing with this scheme and coaching staff is I feel like they are all on the same page. They all want the same things. They are all putting in the effort to play to Kirk's strengths, Dalvins strengths, the OLs strengths, Diggs/Thielens strengths, etc. There is a lot of history and success with Kubiaks system. Not saying its "entirely" his system but I think him and Stefanski are going to make a good combo because Stefanski, being here for so long, knows exactly what Zim wants. They are going to put these players in a position to succeed by adapting to their strengths. Not just throwing all the weight on Cousins shoulders and throw 40 times a game like Flip did. It's going to be a team effort every game. Not just one guy. We have so many weapons on offense. There is no reason we should be one dimensional. And I think these coaches will make sure of that. Cousins, Cook, Thielen and/or Diggs can take over a game at any time. It's about keeping the defense on their toes. You'll see that quite often IMO
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by CharVike » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:27 am

fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:49 am
I wonder if we could put the past behind us for a moment and try a conversation that goes toward interesting analysis. Here's my question for all: Are you hopeful that Kirk Cousins will play better this year than he did last year? If so, what changes made in personnel or scheme do you anticipate being most constructive? If not, what additional changes in personnel or scheme should be made to put him in a better position to succeed?

The whole 'fan's assigning blame game' is incredibly tedious, so I pray we can avoid going down the 'rick not being an idiot' or 'having a line that can block for two seconds' kind of 'analysis'. Anybody up for taking a shot at it?
I think Cousins will play better. We need this new approach to functional very quickly. Can that be done? Yes. How I don't have a clue. I also like that they know the starting 5 OL right off the bat. I think this 1st pick of ours will be a heck of a player. There will be some rookie mistakes but at least they have the guy. I knock Klein but he may come back and he is a good fit with experience. This may seem strange but I think we need to improve defensively. I make it sound that I want shut outs but that's unrealistic. I would like to see more TOs. I want us to lead the league. That's hard to do. Maybe it's scheme related and if it is it needs to be changed. I don't know if we have a CB on our team that has the ball skills I'm looking for. Rhodes, who is a great player, needs to bounce back to top form. He has the skills needed. I'm worried about our deep depth and hope that Hughes will be back and playing to form ASAP. Hill I don't even know if he will be back. Can you put eggs in that basket? But if he comes back that will be a huge plus. The guy proved he can play. I paint alot of doom and gloom but we have a talented Roster. In the end I think we will challenge for the DIV Title and make the playoffs,
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by fiestavike » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:55 am

Raptorman wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:15 am
fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:49 am
I wonder if we could put the past behind us for a moment and try a conversation that goes toward interesting analysis. Here's my question for all: Are you hopeful that Kirk Cousins will play better this year than he did last year? If so, what changes made in personnel or scheme do you anticipate being most constructive? If not, what additional changes in personnel or scheme should be made to put him in a better position to succeed?

The whole 'fan's assigning blame game' is incredibly tedious, so I pray we can avoid going down the 'rick not being an idiot' or 'having a line that can block for two seconds' kind of 'analysis'. Anybody up for taking a shot at it?
I think the plays that they will be running will play into Kirks skills better than last year. If there is one thing I have noticed over the years it is that it is easier to fit the plays to the QB than the QB to the plays. Cousins did well on bootlegs and getting out of the pocket, well, when there was a pocket. I think we will see more of that at the beginning of the year to start the season.

Having an offensive line that well, isn't offensive will help.
I agree. Being able to bootleg and get Kirk out of the pocket minimizes what I see as probably his biggest weakness as a QB. I also think adding some horizontal tension to our offense will make a big difference against teams like Chicago, who just physically dominated our OL. If we can get defenders having to move laterally to stop the run it should help cover for a below average level of strength along the OL while allowing them to use their above average athleticism more effectively. It might also diminish the amount of penetration defensive players are able to get on early down and shorter yardage pass plays by forcing them to be more disciplined.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by fiestavike » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:01 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:31 am
fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:49 am
I wonder if we could put the past behind us for a moment and try a conversation that goes toward interesting analysis. Here's my question for all: Are you hopeful that Kirk Cousins will play better this year than he did last year? If so, what changes made in personnel or scheme do you anticipate being most constructive? If not, what additional changes in personnel or scheme should be made to put him in a better position to succeed?

The whole 'fan's assigning blame game' is incredibly tedious, so I pray we can avoid going down the 'rick not being an idiot' or 'having a line that can block for two seconds' kind of 'analysis'. Anybody up for taking a shot at it?
Good idea. I think this offense is going to be a completely new look compared to last year. I dont think it will specifically be Kirk that plays better, I think it will be the offense as a whole. I will make a bold prediction right now and say Dalvin Cook will be top 5 in the NFL in rushing yards and all purpose yards by seasons end (as long as he stays healthy).

We've all heard many of times that Kirk's great off of play action. Well you arent fooling anyone on defense if you dont have a running game teams worry about. Flip ran a ton of play action but didnt run the ball. There is nothing more difficult for a defense than if an offense is just as good running the ball as they are passing. Because you dont know what's coming. THAT's where play action works wonders.

I think the main thing with this scheme and coaching staff is I feel like they are all on the same page. They all want the same things. They are all putting in the effort to play to Kirk's strengths, Dalvins strengths, the OLs strengths, Diggs/Thielens strengths, etc. There is a lot of history and success with Kubiaks system. Not saying its "entirely" his system but I think him and Stefanski are going to make a good combo because Stefanski, being here for so long, knows exactly what Zim wants. They are going to put these players in a position to succeed by adapting to their strengths. Not just throwing all the weight on Cousins shoulders and throw 40 times a game like Flip did. It's going to be a team effort every game. Not just one guy. We have so many weapons on offense. There is no reason we should be one dimensional. And I think these coaches will make sure of that. Cousins, Cook, Thielen and/or Diggs can take over a game at any time. It's about keeping the defense on their toes. You'll see that quite often IMO
Kubiak's system is a major reason for my optimism too...especially given the Cousins/Shanahan connection in DC. It may take time to gel, but if they can get that zone running scheme together and get Cook rolling its going to make a huge difference, not just for Kirk, but even for the defense. Big question, do we now have the personnel along the OL to pull this turnaround off? How long might it take for everyone to really be flowing together on that unit? How many times a game would you ideally like to see Cousins throwing it?
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by fiestavike » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:07 pm

CharVike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:27 am
fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:49 am
I wonder if we could put the past behind us for a moment and try a conversation that goes toward interesting analysis. Here's my question for all: Are you hopeful that Kirk Cousins will play better this year than he did last year? If so, what changes made in personnel or scheme do you anticipate being most constructive? If not, what additional changes in personnel or scheme should be made to put him in a better position to succeed?

The whole 'fan's assigning blame game' is incredibly tedious, so I pray we can avoid going down the 'rick not being an idiot' or 'having a line that can block for two seconds' kind of 'analysis'. Anybody up for taking a shot at it?
I think Cousins will play better. We need this new approach to functional very quickly. Can that be done? Yes. How I don't have a clue. I also like that they know the starting 5 OL right off the bat. I think this 1st pick of ours will be a heck of a player. There will be some rookie mistakes but at least they have the guy. I knock Klein but he may come back and he is a good fit with experience. This may seem strange but I think we need to improve defensively. I make it sound that I want shut outs but that's unrealistic. I would like to see more TOs. I want us to lead the league. That's hard to do. Maybe it's scheme related and if it is it needs to be changed. I don't know if we have a CB on our team that has the ball skills I'm looking for. Rhodes, who is a great player, needs to bounce back to top form. He has the skills needed. I'm worried about our deep depth and hope that Hughes will be back and playing to form ASAP. Hill I don't even know if he will be back. Can you put eggs in that basket? But if he comes back that will be a huge plus. The guy proved he can play. I paint alot of doom and gloom but we have a talented Roster. In the end I think we will challenge for the DIV Title and make the playoffs,
Is your reason for feeling like Klein is a good fit solely based on experience? I think the Guard positions are the biggest question marks at this point. Can Elflein bounce back? Is Klein better than his reputation? If we don't get favorable answers to at least one of those questions, we'll have some real trouble. Obviously its a cliche, but having a better offense--an offense that can get a lead and run clock--will have a positive impact on the defense. Playing fewer snaps and putting opposing offenses into more predictable situations is liable to yield better results. Whether that means leading the league in turnovers doesn't much matter to me.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:41 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:49 am
I wonder if we could put the past behind us for a moment and try a conversation that goes toward interesting analysis. Here's my question for all: Are you hopeful that Kirk Cousins will play better this year than he did last year? If so, what changes made in personnel or scheme do you anticipate being most constructive? If not, what additional changes in personnel or scheme should be made to put him in a better position to succeed?

The whole 'fan's assigning blame game' is incredibly tedious, so I pray we can avoid going down the 'rick not being an idiot' or 'having a line that can block for two seconds' kind of 'analysis'. Anybody up for taking a shot at it?
We should be better this year than last. I still worry we didn't do enough to improve the line and are hoping guys have a bounce back year or do well at a new position at guard (sound familiar).

Dennison is at best a push at Oline coach, Kubiak and Stefanski should call plays more in line with what the HC wants. The run game should be better.

Defensively they will be better against the run with Stephen, but possibly not have the pass rush from the DT spot without Johnson and Richardson there.

My prediction has been 10-6 all off season, and I believe this team makes the playoffs. I don't know how it makes the jump to Super Bowl contender with the pieces they added/subtracted though.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by fiestavike » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:46 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:41 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:49 am
I wonder if we could put the past behind us for a moment and try a conversation that goes toward interesting analysis. Here's my question for all: Are you hopeful that Kirk Cousins will play better this year than he did last year? If so, what changes made in personnel or scheme do you anticipate being most constructive? If not, what additional changes in personnel or scheme should be made to put him in a better position to succeed?

The whole 'fan's assigning blame game' is incredibly tedious, so I pray we can avoid going down the 'rick not being an idiot' or 'having a line that can block for two seconds' kind of 'analysis'. Anybody up for taking a shot at it?
We should be better this year than last. I still worry we didn't do enough to improve the line and are hoping guys have a bounce back year or do well at a new position at guard (sound familiar).

Dennison is at best a push at Oline coach, Kubiak and Stefanski should call plays more in line with what the HC wants. The run game should be better.

Defensively they will be better against the run with Stephen, but possibly not have the pass rush from the DT spot without Johnson and Richardson there.

My prediction has been 10-6 all off season, and I believe this team makes the playoffs. I don't know how it makes the jump to Super Bowl contender with the pieces they added/subtracted though.
Do you have any specific thoughts about how Cousins performance might improve beyond a possible uptick in OL play?
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:13 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:46 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:41 pm


We should be better this year than last. I still worry we didn't do enough to improve the line and are hoping guys have a bounce back year or do well at a new position at guard (sound familiar).

Dennison is at best a push at Oline coach, Kubiak and Stefanski should call plays more in line with what the HC wants. The run game should be better.

Defensively they will be better against the run with Stephen, but possibly not have the pass rush from the DT spot without Johnson and Richardson there.

My prediction has been 10-6 all off season, and I believe this team makes the playoffs. I don't know how it makes the jump to Super Bowl contender with the pieces they added/subtracted though.
Do you have any specific thoughts about how Cousins performance might improve beyond a possible uptick in OL play?
His 4th quarter play needs to get better. He needs to get better at getting through his reads quicker.

Improving the run game and limiting his pass attempts will limit the turnovers as will getting rid of the ball quicker.
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