Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by CharVike » Sat May 25, 2019 1:16 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 10:17 am
StpViking wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 2:37 pm


Bradbury does not anchor well. You can look up any of his games on youtube. He sinks his hips but he still gets pushed backwards. With all due respect for the Outside Zone run blocking scheme they are implementing this year. We've been here before, as far as being a run heavy offense. It got us no closer to the Superbowl. I am looking for OL that can be good at 1 on 1 blocking. That is what Kirk Cousin needs. The Superbowl will still be in the QBs hands. I just don't know if this collection of OL are good enough 1 on 1 blockers to help him.
With all due respect, what YOU are looking for in an offensive lineman doesn't matter. What Gary Kubiak and Kevin Stefanski are looking for is what counts.

They're going to run a particular scheme, one that requires a certain type of O-lineman. This point has been made over and over on this board, yet a lot of people are still going with this "we need bruisers up front" narrative. No, we don't. We need whatever works best in the Vikings' offense.

Gary Kubiak has a history and a proven track record in this league. And it's not the "sort of good back in the 1990s with three Hall-of-Famers" track record that Norv Turner had. Kubiak has repeatedly created effective rushing attacks out of linemen who aren't All-Pros but have a particular skill set, and out of a grab-bag of running backs who know how to wait for a seam and go. He's also gotten tremendous production out of mostly mediocre quarterbacks, using those same offensive linemen. He does this through the use of play-action and by putting the QB in the best position to succeed, rather than relying on the QB to improvise miraculous plays. I can't think of a better way to utilize Kirk Cousins, who is great at play-action and terrible at improvisation.

Until this offense fails, I'm going to side with the guy who has a track record, as opposed to the armchair offensive coordinators on this board.
Mostly mediocre QBs. Elway, Flacco and Manning. Yea I get it. Kub system has a proven history and has worked. I'll admit I'm not a fan of having smaller players. I want the bigger guy on my side. We are what we are and I hope we dominate the LOS and reach the Super Bowl. But Kubiak never won a thing with a garbage QB so please stop indicating that he did. He had HOFers.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sat May 25, 2019 1:21 pm

CharVike wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 1:16 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 10:17 am

With all due respect, what YOU are looking for in an offensive lineman doesn't matter. What Gary Kubiak and Kevin Stefanski are looking for is what counts.

They're going to run a particular scheme, one that requires a certain type of O-lineman. This point has been made over and over on this board, yet a lot of people are still going with this "we need bruisers up front" narrative. No, we don't. We need whatever works best in the Vikings' offense.

Gary Kubiak has a history and a proven track record in this league. And it's not the "sort of good back in the 1990s with three Hall-of-Famers" track record that Norv Turner had. Kubiak has repeatedly created effective rushing attacks out of linemen who aren't All-Pros but have a particular skill set, and out of a grab-bag of running backs who know how to wait for a seam and go. He's also gotten tremendous production out of mostly mediocre quarterbacks, using those same offensive linemen. He does this through the use of play-action and by putting the QB in the best position to succeed, rather than relying on the QB to improvise miraculous plays. I can't think of a better way to utilize Kirk Cousins, who is great at play-action and terrible at improvisation.

Until this offense fails, I'm going to side with the guy who has a track record, as opposed to the armchair offensive coordinators on this board.
Mostly mediocre QBs. Elway, Flacco and Manning. Yea I get it. Kub system has a proven history and has worked. I'll admit I'm not a fan of having smaller players. I want the bigger guy on my side. We are what we are and I hope we dominate the LOS and reach the Super Bowl. But Kubiak never won a thing with a garbage QB so please stop indicating that he did. He had HOFers.
Flacco is a proven bum. The other two were big time. I would take Captain Kirk over Flacco 7 days a week and twice on Sundays.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by CharVike » Sat May 25, 2019 2:22 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 1:21 pm
CharVike wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 1:16 pm

Mostly mediocre QBs. Elway, Flacco and Manning. Yea I get it. Kub system has a proven history and has worked. I'll admit I'm not a fan of having smaller players. I want the bigger guy on my side. We are what we are and I hope we dominate the LOS and reach the Super Bowl. But Kubiak never won a thing with a garbage QB so please stop indicating that he did. He had HOFers.
Flacco is a proven bum. The other two were big time. I would take Captain Kirk over Flacco 7 days a week and twice on Sundays.
I just threw Flaccos name in there because he did win a Super Bowl. Please don't take my comments as a knock on Kub. He has the skins on the wall and I hope he helps us which I think he will. But like all coaches he needs players.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat May 25, 2019 4:24 pm

CharVike wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 1:16 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 10:17 am

With all due respect, what YOU are looking for in an offensive lineman doesn't matter. What Gary Kubiak and Kevin Stefanski are looking for is what counts.

They're going to run a particular scheme, one that requires a certain type of O-lineman. This point has been made over and over on this board, yet a lot of people are still going with this "we need bruisers up front" narrative. No, we don't. We need whatever works best in the Vikings' offense.

Gary Kubiak has a history and a proven track record in this league. And it's not the "sort of good back in the 1990s with three Hall-of-Famers" track record that Norv Turner had. Kubiak has repeatedly created effective rushing attacks out of linemen who aren't All-Pros but have a particular skill set, and out of a grab-bag of running backs who know how to wait for a seam and go. He's also gotten tremendous production out of mostly mediocre quarterbacks, using those same offensive linemen. He does this through the use of play-action and by putting the QB in the best position to succeed, rather than relying on the QB to improvise miraculous plays. I can't think of a better way to utilize Kirk Cousins, who is great at play-action and terrible at improvisation.

Until this offense fails, I'm going to side with the guy who has a track record, as opposed to the armchair offensive coordinators on this board.
Mostly mediocre QBs. Elway, Flacco and Manning. Yea I get it. Kub system has a proven history and has worked. I'll admit I'm not a fan of having smaller players. I want the bigger guy on my side. We are what we are and I hope we dominate the LOS and reach the Super Bowl. But Kubiak never won a thing with a garbage QB so please stop indicating that he did. He had HOFers.
Are you freaking kidding me? Talk about a misrepresentation of the truth.

Yes, Kubiak coached three HOFers. Let's look at each.

HOFer #1: Steve Young
He coached Steve Young for ONE SEASON as the 49ers QB coach, his first year as a coach in the NFL. It just so happens that Young had the best season of his career, winning NFL MVP and finally "getting the monkey off his back" by winning the Super Bowl.

HOFer #2: John Elway
Interestingly enough, Denver never won a Super Bowl with Elway until Shanahan, the former 49ers OC, was hired. And what was the first thing Shanahan did? Hired Gary Kubiak as OC. Let's not forget also that Terrell Davis, a 6th-round draft choice, became a HOF running back in Kubiak's offense. And let's get something else straight. Kubiak coached 7 of his 11 seasons in Denver AFTER Elway retired, yet the Broncos led the NFL in yards and points over his time as OC.

HOFer #3: Peyton Manning
It's inarguable that Manning was a DUMPSTER FIRE the year they won the SB. Manning got benched for Brock Osweiler, for crying out loud, because he threw for 9 TDs and 17 INTs, with a passer rating of 67.4. I don't care if he's a unanimous first-ballot Hall-of-Famer -- he was the worst QB in the NFL that year.

Now let's look at the other years.

Houston
Got a 4-1 record out of Sage Rosenfels when the great Matt Schaub went down. Won multiple division titles in Houston and coaxed multiple 4,000-yard seasons out of Schaub. Won a playoff game with T.J. Yates under center. You want rushing offense? Undrafted RB Arian Foster made four Pro Bowls under Kubiak.

Baltimore
The Ravens had the most successful offense in their history during Kubiak's one season as OC. You telling me Joe Flacco is a Hall-of-Famer? How about 7th-round pick Justin Forsett, who had a 1,200-yard season under Kubiak?

I've presented these facts over and over on this board. It's getting tiresome. Gary Kubiak is a proven successful commodity as an offensive coach in the NFL, whether he's had a Hall-of-Famer under center or Sage Rosencopter. So how about YOU stop indicating otherwise.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by CharVike » Sat May 25, 2019 5:43 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 4:24 pm
CharVike wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 1:16 pm

Mostly mediocre QBs. Elway, Flacco and Manning. Yea I get it. Kub system has a proven history and has worked. I'll admit I'm not a fan of having smaller players. I want the bigger guy on my side. We are what we are and I hope we dominate the LOS and reach the Super Bowl. But Kubiak never won a thing with a garbage QB so please stop indicating that he did. He had HOFers.
Are you freaking kidding me? Talk about a misrepresentation of the truth.

Yes, Kubiak coached three HOFers. Let's look at each.

HOFer #1: Steve Young
He coached Steve Young for ONE SEASON as the 49ers QB coach, his first year as a coach in the NFL. It just so happens that Young had the best season of his career, winning NFL MVP and finally "getting the monkey off his back" by winning the Super Bowl.

HOFer #2: John Elway
Interestingly enough, Denver never won a Super Bowl with Elway until Shanahan, the former 49ers OC, was hired. And what was the first thing Shanahan did? Hired Gary Kubiak as OC. Let's not forget also that Terrell Davis, a 6th-round draft choice, became a HOF running back in Kubiak's offense. And let's get something else straight. Kubiak coached 7 of his 11 seasons in Denver AFTER Elway retired, yet the Broncos led the NFL in yards and points over his time as OC.

HOFer #3: Peyton Manning
It's inarguable that Manning was a DUMPSTER FIRE the year they won the SB. Manning got benched for Brock Osweiler, for crying out loud, because he threw for 9 TDs and 17 INTs, with a passer rating of 67.4. I don't care if he's a unanimous first-ballot Hall-of-Famer -- he was the worst QB in the NFL that year.

Now let's look at the other years.

Houston
Got a 4-1 record out of Sage Rosenfels when the great Matt Schaub went down. Won multiple division titles in Houston and coaxed multiple 4,000-yard seasons out of Schaub. Won a playoff game with T.J. Yates under center. You want rushing offense? Undrafted RB Arian Foster made four Pro Bowls under Kubiak.

Baltimore
The Ravens had the most successful offense in their history during Kubiak's one season as OC. You telling me Joe Flacco is a Hall-of-Famer? How about 7th-round pick Justin Forsett, who had a 1,200-yard season under Kubiak?

I've presented these facts over and over on this board. It's getting tiresome. Gary Kubiak is a proven successful commodity as an offensive coach in the NFL, whether he's had a Hall-of-Famer under center or Sage Rosencopter. So how about YOU stop indicating otherwise.
OK here is what I stated " Kub system has a proven history and has worked." Your correct it was a total misrepresentation of the truth. The fact is he never won a Super Bowl with a bum QB only HOFers. That's the truth. Sage never won a Super Bowl regardless of what you think. Gibbs won Super Bowls with total stiffs at QB, Bum after bum. What he put in place was a huge OL that took over the LOS. They pushed the smaller guys out of the way and controlled the game. Again a misrepresentation on my part. We won a playoff game with a joke QB Case Keenam. We won with other bums also. So winning a playoff game with a bum QB is doable. Kub isn't the only guy to do that. Kub has put up the yardage that has been proven. Big time stats and getting beat is not the name of the game. Now we are implementing his ground based attack. We are not tooled for that yet so it's a rebuild and the O will struggle. Even Cousins indicated that we have a lot of work to do to implement this new scheme. That will take time and it won't be this year either. Maybe next year it will work once the right pieces are in place.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sat May 25, 2019 6:55 pm

CharVike wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 5:43 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 4:24 pm

Are you freaking kidding me? Talk about a misrepresentation of the truth.

Yes, Kubiak coached three HOFers. Let's look at each.

HOFer #1: Steve Young
He coached Steve Young for ONE SEASON as the 49ers QB coach, his first year as a coach in the NFL. It just so happens that Young had the best season of his career, winning NFL MVP and finally "getting the monkey off his back" by winning the Super Bowl.

HOFer #2: John Elway
Interestingly enough, Denver never won a Super Bowl with Elway until Shanahan, the former 49ers OC, was hired. And what was the first thing Shanahan did? Hired Gary Kubiak as OC. Let's not forget also that Terrell Davis, a 6th-round draft choice, became a HOF running back in Kubiak's offense. And let's get something else straight. Kubiak coached 7 of his 11 seasons in Denver AFTER Elway retired, yet the Broncos led the NFL in yards and points over his time as OC.

HOFer #3: Peyton Manning
It's inarguable that Manning was a DUMPSTER FIRE the year they won the SB. Manning got benched for Brock Osweiler, for crying out loud, because he threw for 9 TDs and 17 INTs, with a passer rating of 67.4. I don't care if he's a unanimous first-ballot Hall-of-Famer -- he was the worst QB in the NFL that year.

Now let's look at the other years.

Houston
Got a 4-1 record out of Sage Rosenfels when the great Matt Schaub went down. Won multiple division titles in Houston and coaxed multiple 4,000-yard seasons out of Schaub. Won a playoff game with T.J. Yates under center. You want rushing offense? Undrafted RB Arian Foster made four Pro Bowls under Kubiak.

Baltimore
The Ravens had the most successful offense in their history during Kubiak's one season as OC. You telling me Joe Flacco is a Hall-of-Famer? How about 7th-round pick Justin Forsett, who had a 1,200-yard season under Kubiak?

I've presented these facts over and over on this board. It's getting tiresome. Gary Kubiak is a proven successful commodity as an offensive coach in the NFL, whether he's had a Hall-of-Famer under center or Sage Rosencopter. So how about YOU stop indicating otherwise.
OK here is what I stated " Kub system has a proven history and has worked." Your correct it was a total misrepresentation of the truth. The fact is he never won a Super Bowl with a bum QB only HOFers. That's the truth. Sage never won a Super Bowl regardless of what you think. Gibbs won Super Bowls with total stiffs at QB, Bum after bum. What he put in place was a huge OL that took over the LOS. They pushed the smaller guys out of the way and controlled the game. Again a misrepresentation on my part. We won a playoff game with a joke QB Case Keenam. We won with other bums also. So winning a playoff game with a bum QB is doable. Kub isn't the only guy to do that. Kub has put up the yardage that has been proven. Big time stats and getting beat is not the name of the game. Now we are implementing his ground based attack. We are not tooled for that yet so it's a rebuild and the O will struggle. Even Cousins indicated that we have a lot of work to do to implement this new scheme. That will take time and it won't be this year either. Maybe next year it will work once the right pieces are in place.
I want to clarify this. You expect the Vikings to suck due to growing pains and have no success this season. Is that accurate? I'm expecting those growing pains to last about 4 games before we hit our stride and have a very successful season. I hope I'm right and you are wrong. :govikes:
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by CharVike » Sat May 25, 2019 7:37 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 6:55 pm
CharVike wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 5:43 pm

OK here is what I stated " Kub system has a proven history and has worked." Your correct it was a total misrepresentation of the truth. The fact is he never won a Super Bowl with a bum QB only HOFers. That's the truth. Sage never won a Super Bowl regardless of what you think. Gibbs won Super Bowls with total stiffs at QB, Bum after bum. What he put in place was a huge OL that took over the LOS. They pushed the smaller guys out of the way and controlled the game. Again a misrepresentation on my part. We won a playoff game with a joke QB Case Keenam. We won with other bums also. So winning a playoff game with a bum QB is doable. Kub isn't the only guy to do that. Kub has put up the yardage that has been proven. Big time stats and getting beat is not the name of the game. Now we are implementing his ground based attack. We are not tooled for that yet so it's a rebuild and the O will struggle. Even Cousins indicated that we have a lot of work to do to implement this new scheme. That will take time and it won't be this year either. Maybe next year it will work once the right pieces are in place.
I want to clarify this. You expect the Vikings to suck due to growing pains and have no success this season. Is that accurate? I'm expecting those growing pains to last about 4 games before we hit our stride and have a very successful season. I hope I'm right and you are wrong. :govikes:
I've stated in many post I expect them to contend, We were there right at the end last year and nothing broke on our side. It started with a death and continued to spiral downward. But we were still in games and had a chance. We couldn't get past the Bears. They gave us a good beating both times. We will have difficulty scoring on them again this year and if we play early we might get shut out. They play D. I hope we win the Super Bowl but we will have a hard time winning the division first. I also expect the Pack to be better which won't help. The only breather is the lions blow. Our road is tough.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sat May 25, 2019 9:00 pm

CharVike wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 7:37 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 6:55 pm

I want to clarify this. You expect the Vikings to suck due to growing pains and have no success this season. Is that accurate? I'm expecting those growing pains to last about 4 games before we hit our stride and have a very successful season. I hope I'm right and you are wrong. :govikes:
I've stated in many post I expect them to contend, We were there right at the end last year and nothing broke on our side. It started with a death and continued to spiral downward. But we were still in games and had a chance. We couldn't get past the Bears. They gave us a good beating both times. We will have difficulty scoring on them again this year and if we play early we might get shut out. They play D. I hope we win the Super Bowl but we will have a hard time winning the division first. I also expect the Pack to be better which won't help. The only breather is the lions blow. Our road is tough.
Cool. I'm glad you expect us to contend. Hopefully you can see why your prior post gave the impression it did. Seemed doom and gloom.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Raptorman » Sat May 25, 2019 10:44 pm

CharVike wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 5:43 pm

OK here is what I stated " Kub system has a proven history and has worked." Your correct it was a total misrepresentation of the truth. The fact is he never won a Super Bowl with a bum QB only HOFers. That's the truth. Sage never won a Super Bowl regardless of what you think. Gibbs won Super Bowls with total stiffs at QB, Bum after bum. What he put in place was a huge OL that took over the LOS. They pushed the smaller guys out of the way and controlled the game. Again a misrepresentation on my part. We won a playoff game with a joke QB Case Keenam. We won with other bums also. So winning a playoff game with a bum QB is doable. Kub isn't the only guy to do that. Kub has put up the yardage that has been proven. Big time stats and getting beat is not the name of the game. Now we are implementing his ground based attack. We are not tooled for that yet so it's a rebuild and the O will struggle. Even Cousins indicated that we have a lot of work to do to implement this new scheme. That will take time and it won't be this year either. Maybe next year it will work once the right pieces are in place.

Please explain to us which QB's that won the Super Bowl in the past were "bum" QBs. Maybe that will make it easier to understand your point. And which current coaches in the last 15 years won the SB with a "bum" QB.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by CharVike » Sun May 26, 2019 5:20 pm

Raptorman wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 10:44 pm
CharVike wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 5:43 pm

OK here is what I stated " Kub system has a proven history and has worked." Your correct it was a total misrepresentation of the truth. The fact is he never won a Super Bowl with a bum QB only HOFers. That's the truth. Sage never won a Super Bowl regardless of what you think. Gibbs won Super Bowls with total stiffs at QB, Bum after bum. What he put in place was a huge OL that took over the LOS. They pushed the smaller guys out of the way and controlled the game. Again a misrepresentation on my part. We won a playoff game with a joke QB Case Keenam. We won with other bums also. So winning a playoff game with a bum QB is doable. Kub isn't the only guy to do that. Kub has put up the yardage that has been proven. Big time stats and getting beat is not the name of the game. Now we are implementing his ground based attack. We are not tooled for that yet so it's a rebuild and the O will struggle. Even Cousins indicated that we have a lot of work to do to implement this new scheme. That will take time and it won't be this year either. Maybe next year it will work once the right pieces are in place.

Please explain to us which QB's that won the Super Bowl in the past were "bum" QBs. Maybe that will make it easier to understand your point. And which current coaches in the last 15 years won the SB with a "bum" QB.
Gibbs did it with Joe Theismann (XVII), Doug Williams (XXII) and Mark Rypien (XXVI). Gibbs was my example. Flacco also won a Super Bowl. As I stated Gibbs had a huge OL and they controlled the games. Bottom line and the most frustrating thing is we are starting from square one on offense. We have a two headed OC. I've never seen this done before. So just getting that figured out will take what? One game? Two or 16? We will struggle to score. We might all be screaming for JDF to come back and it could happen. Of course with this mess Cousins will look like a shell of what he can do and most will be calling for his head. But the entire O will be out of sync. We are wasting the talent level we have .Now it's a big time ground attack and we don't have the back for that. He can't stay healthy. At least Cousins proved he could take a beating behind a terrible OL and keep on playing.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun May 26, 2019 8:04 pm

CharVike wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 5:20 pm
Raptorman wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 10:44 pm



Please explain to us which QB's that won the Super Bowl in the past were "bum" QBs. Maybe that will make it easier to understand your point. And which current coaches in the last 15 years won the SB with a "bum" QB.
Gibbs did it with Joe Theismann (XVII), Doug Williams (XXII) and Mark Rypien (XXVI). Gibbs was my example. Flacco also won a Super Bowl. As I stated Gibbs had a huge OL and they controlled the games. Bottom line and the most frustrating thing is we are starting from square one on offense. We have a two headed OC. I've never seen this done before. So just getting that figured out will take what? One game? Two or 16? We will struggle to score. We might all be screaming for JDF to come back and it could happen. Of course with this mess Cousins will look like a shell of what he can do and most will be calling for his head. But the entire O will be out of sync. We are wasting the talent level we have .Now it's a big time ground attack and we don't have the back for that. He can't stay healthy. At least Cousins proved he could take a beating behind a terrible OL and keep on playing.
Once again your posts all scream doom and gloom yet you think we can contend. Coaches have always worked together. The OC still has to convince the HC of what he wants to do. Maybe Kubiak will design the schemes with Stefanski calling the plays. That would be my best guess. It shouldn't be a conflict at all.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun May 26, 2019 10:33 pm

CharVike wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 5:43 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 4:24 pm

Are you freaking kidding me? Talk about a misrepresentation of the truth.

Yes, Kubiak coached three HOFers. Let's look at each.

HOFer #1: Steve Young
He coached Steve Young for ONE SEASON as the 49ers QB coach, his first year as a coach in the NFL. It just so happens that Young had the best season of his career, winning NFL MVP and finally "getting the monkey off his back" by winning the Super Bowl.

HOFer #2: John Elway
Interestingly enough, Denver never won a Super Bowl with Elway until Shanahan, the former 49ers OC, was hired. And what was the first thing Shanahan did? Hired Gary Kubiak as OC. Let's not forget also that Terrell Davis, a 6th-round draft choice, became a HOF running back in Kubiak's offense. And let's get something else straight. Kubiak coached 7 of his 11 seasons in Denver AFTER Elway retired, yet the Broncos led the NFL in yards and points over his time as OC.

HOFer #3: Peyton Manning
It's inarguable that Manning was a DUMPSTER FIRE the year they won the SB. Manning got benched for Brock Osweiler, for crying out loud, because he threw for 9 TDs and 17 INTs, with a passer rating of 67.4. I don't care if he's a unanimous first-ballot Hall-of-Famer -- he was the worst QB in the NFL that year.

Now let's look at the other years.

Houston
Got a 4-1 record out of Sage Rosenfels when the great Matt Schaub went down. Won multiple division titles in Houston and coaxed multiple 4,000-yard seasons out of Schaub. Won a playoff game with T.J. Yates under center. You want rushing offense? Undrafted RB Arian Foster made four Pro Bowls under Kubiak.

Baltimore
The Ravens had the most successful offense in their history during Kubiak's one season as OC. You telling me Joe Flacco is a Hall-of-Famer? How about 7th-round pick Justin Forsett, who had a 1,200-yard season under Kubiak?

I've presented these facts over and over on this board. It's getting tiresome. Gary Kubiak is a proven successful commodity as an offensive coach in the NFL, whether he's had a Hall-of-Famer under center or Sage Rosencopter. So how about YOU stop indicating otherwise.
OK here is what I stated " Kub system has a proven history and has worked." Your correct it was a total misrepresentation of the truth. The fact is he never won a Super Bowl with a bum QB only HOFers. That's the truth. Sage never won a Super Bowl regardless of what you think. Gibbs won Super Bowls with total stiffs at QB, Bum after bum. What he put in place was a huge OL that took over the LOS. They pushed the smaller guys out of the way and controlled the game. Again a misrepresentation on my part. We won a playoff game with a joke QB Case Keenam. We won with other bums also. So winning a playoff game with a bum QB is doable. Kub isn't the only guy to do that. Kub has put up the yardage that has been proven. Big time stats and getting beat is not the name of the game. Now we are implementing his ground based attack. We are not tooled for that yet so it's a rebuild and the O will struggle. Even Cousins indicated that we have a lot of work to do to implement this new scheme. That will take time and it won't be this year either. Maybe next year it will work once the right pieces are in place.
Y'know, here's a news flash ... you probably need to get over the "huge O-line" thing. We're not going that route. Almost nobody does. It's not 1985 anymore. The game has evolved. With guys like Khalil Mack rushing the passer and linebackers who run 4.5, you can't put five giant slow hogs out there and expect to move the ball.

And let's get something straight. The fact that Gary Kubiak got all his rings with HOF quarterbacks doesn't diminish the fact that he's an excellent coach who has enjoyed success with mediocre skill talent. To say or imply otherwise is simply choosing to be blind to the facts. And if the only measure of success is Super Bowl victories, then there are plenty of HOFers who never won a ring who should probably should have their busts removed from Canton. Dan Marino and Barry Sanders come to mind, along with every Vikings HOFer who played his entire career in Minnesota. Are you telling me that Bud Grant was not a successful coach?

Finally, I'd like to make one things clear ... like mutual funds, a coach's past performance does not guarantee future results. I touted John DeFilippo as the next genius offensive coach, and I ended up looking like a damned fool. So I'm pretty guarded about this right now. Gary Kubiak has an inarguably excellent track record, and I believe he's a great hire to mentor Kevin Stefanski. But until he proves he can make his system work with the Vikings and their current personnel, I look at the Vikings' near future with very, very cautious optimism. Being able to talk Xs and Os like a savant will only take you so far. You have to be able to get the most out of the talent you have. We'll see if Kubiak and Stefanski can do that.
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CharVike
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by CharVike » Mon May 27, 2019 7:58 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 8:04 pm
CharVike wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 5:20 pm

Gibbs did it with Joe Theismann (XVII), Doug Williams (XXII) and Mark Rypien (XXVI). Gibbs was my example. Flacco also won a Super Bowl. As I stated Gibbs had a huge OL and they controlled the games. Bottom line and the most frustrating thing is we are starting from square one on offense. We have a two headed OC. I've never seen this done before. So just getting that figured out will take what? One game? Two or 16? We will struggle to score. We might all be screaming for JDF to come back and it could happen. Of course with this mess Cousins will look like a shell of what he can do and most will be calling for his head. But the entire O will be out of sync. We are wasting the talent level we have .Now it's a big time ground attack and we don't have the back for that. He can't stay healthy. At least Cousins proved he could take a beating behind a terrible OL and keep on playing.
Once again your posts all scream doom and gloom yet you think we can contend. Coaches have always worked together. The OC still has to convince the HC of what he wants to do. Maybe Kubiak will design the schemes with Stefanski calling the plays. That would be my best guess. It shouldn't be a conflict at all.
You didn't clarify anything. Using best guess and shouldn't is grey. That will be our problem. It's grey and a team won't function like that.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by Raptorman » Mon May 27, 2019 8:10 am

CharVike wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 5:20 pm
Raptorman wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 10:44 pm



Please explain to us which QB's that won the Super Bowl in the past were "bum" QBs. Maybe that will make it easier to understand your point. And which current coaches in the last 15 years won the SB with a "bum" QB.
Gibbs did it with Joe Theismann (XVII), Doug Williams (XXII) and Mark Rypien (XXVI). Gibbs was my example. Flacco also won a Super Bowl. As I stated Gibbs had a huge OL and they controlled the games. Bottom line and the most frustrating thing is we are starting from square one on offense. We have a two headed OC. I've never seen this done before. So just getting that figured out will take what? One game? Two or 16? We will struggle to score. We might all be screaming for JDF to come back and it could happen. Of course with this mess Cousins will look like a shell of what he can do and most will be calling for his head. But the entire O will be out of sync. We are wasting the talent level we have .Now it's a big time ground attack and we don't have the back for that. He can't stay healthy. At least Cousins proved he could take a beating behind a terrible OL and keep on playing.
Theismann is a bum QB? Wow. Never thought a QB with .620 winning percentage would be called a bum. Guess that makes a lot of QB bums.

Favre .624
Brees .589
Marino .612
Rivers .567
Tarkenton .518

One thing most people don't know about the Gibbs teams, his defense gave up on 19.0 ppg during his tenure. And the years they won the Super Bowl, 14 ppg, 17.8 ppg and 14.2 ppg A lot easier to win with a "Bum" QB when you only give up 14 ppg.
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Re: Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Mon May 27, 2019 10:54 am

CharVike wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:58 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 8:04 pm

Once again your posts all scream doom and gloom yet you think we can contend. Coaches have always worked together. The OC still has to convince the HC of what he wants to do. Maybe Kubiak will design the schemes with Stefanski calling the plays. That would be my best guess. It shouldn't be a conflict at all.
You didn't clarify anything. Using best guess and shouldn't is grey. That will be our problem. It's grey and a team won't function like that.
Kubiak schemes with Stefanski play calling IMO would work out very well.
Sorry but I can't tell the future so I have to go with Best Guess and Shouldn't.
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