Who had the best draft class of 2019 in the NFC North?

[StumpHunter]

Foles. The Super Bowl MVP is making 22 million per and less than half of his contract is guaranteed. The unprecedented nature of Cousins contract was the fully guaranteed part, btw. It leaves the Vikings in a horrible negotiating spot if he is good and they want to extend him, and in an even worse spot if he starts to struggle. There is a reason no team has followed suit.

I don't need to look for a loophole. Cousins isn't as good as Wentz and doesn't have near the potential. It is just a fact that a good portion of that 128 million will be paid this year and next.

Doug Williams was a Super Bowl MVP in much the same way Foles was. I hope you don't have him in the above average QB very good passer category. It is very doubtful that Foles is an above average very good passing QB. Even if he is you came up with one example. I think you came up with none. The contract Wentz who I will grant you is an above average QB (which I could easily act like you and deny because of his two losing seasons out of three and his H2H loss to Mr. Clutch) and very good passer signed for quite a bit more than Cousins in average annual value, in guaranteed money and in total money. Try again. See if you can come up with any examples of which I'm asking for. Don't give me your reasoning that Foles is above average and a very good passer. I know all about him. He has had 1.5 good seasons in his veteran career.

Foles is a guy who, with the right cast around him can play really well(like Cousins). I think he will fail in Jacksonville, but I think Cousins would have too. Cousins is more durable and younger, but Foles has proven he can step up big in big games.

You asked for an example, Foles is as close as you can get to Cousins hitting the open market.

Now you give me an example of a QB getting a 3 year, fully guaranteed contract. Rodgers, Wentz and Wilson are all significantly better QBs than Cousins, but none of them got fully guaranteed deals. Big deals, longer deals, but not fully guaranteed.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Wentz just got a 4 year, $128 million deal with $103 in guarantees. So if Cousins contract isnt in-line with the market, then whats Wentz's contract? Beyond absurd?

He will end up making less than Cousins per year because the Eagles drafted Wentz and were able to extend him early. From a cap standpoint, his contract is now a 6 year, 156 million contract.

Lol exactly what VV said, you’re looking for loopholes dude.

[Pondering Her Percy]

18th in TDs and 16th in yards is not a good year for a QB. Especially considering it was the best season of his career.

Dude come on.....he was about 200 yards away from being 12th in yards, which he would have had if he played all 16 games. As for TDs, he was also 2-3 tds away from being 15th or better. But the key is, interceptions. He threw 5 in 15 games. The only QBs that had less that year were Brady and Prescott. But let’s ignore that because it doesn’t help your argument stump.

When AP didn't run for a 100 yards, Teddy threw for an average of 120 yards more per game, and threw for twice as many TDs. When the you aren't running the ball well, you throw more, you have more passing yards and TDs (sound familiar). It wasn't even like they moved away from the run when AP wasn't running well either. So AP would get -1 on 1st down, 2 yards on 2nd, and then Teddy would have to pick up 3rd and 9. Which he actually did surprisingly well at. All because of AP though, who was more often than not on the sidelines on that down.

Again, come on. Twice as many TDs for Teddy huh? Those whopping 14 tds of his in a full season. 2 years in a row no less. You want to question Sam Bradford and Kirk Cousins but you’re gonna sit there and defend teddy? As a passer Teddy couldn’t hold Bradfords or cousins jock strap. But anything you can somehow find to try and make those two look bad is what you will do. Teddy was a great guy and all but he wasn’t much of a QB. At first I thought so but the fact that he didn’t improve hardly at all in year 2 wasn’t very promising. And bad knee or not, he’s yet to get a starting gig again and looked like a train wreck in a mop up game vs Carolina last year. So please, don’t sit here and try to defend him as a passer or even bother talking about his “TDs”. You just ripped Bradford for being “18th in tds” in 15 games but are defending Teddy when he went 2 years straight of 14tds, which is pathetic for a starting QB. No less Teddy also barely broke 3000 yards both years but you’re calling out Bradford for throwing for 3800+ in 15 games. Anything to help your argument!

And you’re saying Teddy had to deal with 3rd and 9’s. Cousins and Bradford didn’t?? AP carried that team and you know it. Hardly ever did a RB carry a game for either Bradford or Cousins. Cousins had 2 games out of 16 where he had a RB break 100 yards (Cook vs Miami/Murray vs Arz). Bradford had 0 out of 15 games. So TWO games out of 31 where either QB had a 100 yard rusher. Teddy had 8 of 16 games that year where AP broke 98 yards or more. Teddy had 4 times the 100 yard rushers in half the amount of games.

No less you completely missed my point regarding AP running over 100 vs AP crapping the bed. When AP went over 98 yards in 2015, we were 8-0. When he was under 98, we were 3-5. And in those 3 wins (KC, Chi and GB) Teddy had 1 good game vs a crap Chicago which happened to be his only 3+ TD game of his career. The KC game he threw 2 picks and barely broke 50% completion percentage and GB he threw for a pathetic 99 yards, barely broke 50% completion percentage and threw a pick. 2 of those 3 games were won on defense. And what does it show? That teddy couldn’t carry the weight when we needed him to. Not even just a little bit. It’s hard for any QB to but Teddy could hardly pull any wins out of it. One to be exact.

I would refrain from anymore Teddy talk if I was you because you’re drawing dead there. And it does nothing but hurt your argument because you’re defending a much worse QB than Cousins or Bradford. In the end, you’re just contradicting yourself by trying to defend Teddy in any way. He goes completely against what you, specifically, “look for” in a good QB and the stats show that. I’d quit while you’re ahead man. But go ahead and say “I wasn’t trying to defend Teddy but.....”

GB, Seattle, Houston and Philly were all 16th or better in scoring efficiency this past season. Seattle was 7th. What rankings were you looking at?

I went off total offense. Either way, 16th is average

No one ever said the QB was solely responsible for the offense sucking. You made that up.

That is exactly what you’re portraying!!! I didn’t make anything up. You’re actually sitting there as a die hard Vikings fan ripping Kirk cousins and Sam Bradford but defending Teddy Bridgewater?? You’ve done nothing but complain that Bradford and cousins didn’t win. Neither did the TEAM!! Teddy was a below average passer but they won because of AP and his defense. Case Keenum is a below average passer but they won because of their OC, RBs, OL and defense. How did either of those teams help cousins or Bradford? Outside of the defense which was good both years, what did the OC, OL or RBs do to help either of their QBs succeed??! I’ll tell you, nothing. And that’s the difference that you will forever miss and never understand.

Hope this helps.

[Raptorman]

Doug Williams was a Super Bowl MVP in much the same way Foles was. I hope you don't have him in the above average QB very good passer category. It is very doubtful that Foles is an above average very good passing QB. Even if he is you came up with one example. I think you came up with none. The contract Wentz who I will grant you is an above average QB (which I could easily act like you and deny because of his two losing seasons out of three and his H2H loss to Mr. Clutch) and very good passer signed for quite a bit more than Cousins in average annual value, in guaranteed money and in total money. Try again. See if you can come up with any examples of which I'm asking for. Don't give me your reasoning that Foles is above average and a very good passer. I know all about him. He has had 1.5 good seasons in his veteran career.

Foles is a guy who, with the right cast around him can play really well(like Cousins). I think he will fail in Jacksonville, but I think Cousins would have too. Cousins is more durable and younger, but Foles has proven he can step up big in big games.

You asked for an example, Foles is as close as you can get to Cousins hitting the open market.

Now you give me an example of a QB getting a 3 year, fully guaranteed contract. Rodgers, Wentz and Wilson are all significantly better QBs than Cousins, but none of them got fully guaranteed deals. Big deals, longer deals, but not fully guaranteed.

People really need to get over the Guaranteed contract thing. Tell me, what difference does it really make? Let's say they signed him for $84, $60 guaranteed and $8 million a year roster bonus? The cap hit would be the same. Nothing changes as to how he plays. They aren't going to dump him the last year and take a $20 million cap hit.

Let's say they signed him for 5 years instead. $145 million. $70 million guaranteed. That's about 50%, pretty much want current hard guarantees are for QB's. If we wanted to cut him after 3 years, it would be a $28 million cap hit. So now, we cut him after 3 years, Cap is is what again? Bueller?

[VikingsVictorious]

Doug Williams was a Super Bowl MVP in much the same way Foles was. I hope you don't have him in the above average QB very good passer category. It is very doubtful that Foles is an above average very good passing QB. Even if he is you came up with one example. I think you came up with none. The contract Wentz who I will grant you is an above average QB (which I could easily act like you and deny because of his two losing seasons out of three and his H2H loss to Mr. Clutch) and very good passer signed for quite a bit more than Cousins in average annual value, in guaranteed money and in total money. Try again. See if you can come up with any examples of which I'm asking for. Don't give me your reasoning that Foles is above average and a very good passer. I know all about him. He has had 1.5 good seasons in his veteran career.

Foles is a guy who, with the right cast around him can play really well(like Cousins). I think he will fail in Jacksonville, but I think Cousins would have too. Cousins is more durable and younger, but Foles has proven he can step up big in big games.

You asked for an example, Foles is as close as you can get to Cousins hitting the open market.

Now you give me an example of a QB getting a 3 year, fully guaranteed contract. Rodgers, Wentz and Wilson are all significantly better QBs than Cousins, but none of them got fully guaranteed deals. Big deals, longer deals, but not fully guaranteed.

The fully guaranteed contract thing is another loophole. Wentz has more guaranteed money regardless of fully guaranteed. The jury is out on whether Wentz is a better QB than Cousins. He didn't come back strong from his injury last year. Rodgers hasn't been special for a while now. Try to be happy with Cousins. He's who we got. He's an above average QB and a very good passer. Be happy. If Bradbury, Kline and Samia plus a much more healthy Elf can get the O Line up to average we can watch OUR MINNESOTA VIKINGS go a long ways this season.

[VikingsVictorious]

Foles is a guy who, with the right cast around him can play really well(like Cousins). I think he will fail in Jacksonville, but I think Cousins would have too. Cousins is more durable and younger, but Foles has proven he can step up big in big games.

You asked for an example, Foles is as close as you can get to Cousins hitting the open market.

Now you give me an example of a QB getting a 3 year, fully guaranteed contract. Rodgers, Wentz and Wilson are all significantly better QBs than Cousins, but none of them got fully guaranteed deals. Big deals, longer deals, but not fully guaranteed.

People really need to get over the Guaranteed contract thing. Tell me, what difference does it really make? Let's say they signed him for $84, $60 guaranteed and $8 million a year roster bonus? The cap hit would be the same. Nothing changes as to how he plays. They aren't going to dump him the last year and take a $20 million cap hit.

Let's say they signed him for 5 years instead. $145 million. $70 million guaranteed. That's about 50%, pretty much want current hard guarantees are for QB's. If we wanted to cut him after 3 years, it would be a $28 million cap hit. So now, we cut him after 3 years, Cap is is what again? Bueller?

Great Points.

[VikingsVictorious]

18th in TDs and 16th in yards is not a good year for a QB. Especially considering it was the best season of his career.

Dude come on.....he was about 200 yards away from being 12th in yards, which he would have had if he played all 16 games. As for TDs, he was also 2-3 tds away from being 15th or better. But the key is, interceptions. He threw 5 in 15 games. The only QBs that had less that year were Brady and Prescott. But let’s ignore that because it doesn’t help your argument stump.

When AP didn't run for a 100 yards, Teddy threw for an average of 120 yards more per game, and threw for twice as many TDs. When the you aren't running the ball well, you throw more, you have more passing yards and TDs (sound familiar). It wasn't even like they moved away from the run when AP wasn't running well either. So AP would get -1 on 1st down, 2 yards on 2nd, and then Teddy would have to pick up 3rd and 9. Which he actually did surprisingly well at. All because of AP though, who was more often than not on the sidelines on that down.

Again, come on. Twice as many TDs for Teddy huh? Those whopping 14 tds of his in a full season. 2 years in a row no less. You want to question Sam Bradford and Kirk Cousins but you’re gonna sit there and defend teddy? As a passer Teddy couldn’t hold Bradfords or cousins jock strap. But anything you can somehow find to try and make those two look bad is what you will do. Teddy was a great guy and all but he wasn’t much of a QB. At first I thought so but the fact that he didn’t improve hardly at all in year 2 wasn’t very promising. And bad knee or not, he’s yet to get a starting gig again and looked like a train wreck in a mop up game vs Carolina last year. So please, don’t sit here and try to defend him as a passer or even bother talking about his “TDs”. You just ripped Bradford for being “18th in tds” in 15 games but are defending Teddy when he went 2 years straight of 14tds, which is pathetic for a starting QB. No less Teddy also barely broke 3000 yards both years but you’re calling out Bradford for throwing for 3800+ in 15 games. Anything to help your argument!

And you’re saying Teddy had to deal with 3rd and 9’s. Cousins and Bradford didn’t?? AP carried that team and you know it. Hardly ever did a RB carry a game for either Bradford or Cousins. Cousins had 2 games out of 16 where he had a RB break 100 yards (Cook vs Miami/Murray vs Arz). Bradford had 0 out of 15 games. So TWO games out of 31 where either QB had a 100 yard rusher. Teddy had 8 of 16 games that year where AP broke 98 yards or more. Teddy had 4 times the 100 yard rushers in half the amount of games.

No less you completely missed my point regarding AP running over 100 vs AP crapping the bed. When AP went over 98 yards in 2015, we were 8-0. When he was under 98, we were 3-5. And in those 3 wins (KC, Chi and GB) Teddy had 1 good game vs a crap Chicago which happened to be his only 3+ TD game of his career. The KC game he threw 2 picks and barely broke 50% completion percentage and GB he threw for a pathetic 99 yards, barely broke 50% completion percentage and threw a pick. 2 of those 3 games were won on defense. And what does it show? That teddy couldn’t carry the weight when we needed him to. Not even just a little bit. It’s hard for any QB to but Teddy could hardly pull any wins out of it. One to be exact.

I would refrain from anymore Teddy talk if I was you because you’re drawing dead there. And it does nothing but hurt your argument because you’re defending a much worse QB than Cousins or Bradford. In the end, you’re just contradicting yourself by trying to defend Teddy in any way. He goes completely against what you, specifically, “look for” in a good QB and the stats show that. I’d quit while you’re ahead man. But go ahead and say “I wasn’t trying to defend Teddy but.....”

GB, Seattle, Houston and Philly were all 16th or better in scoring efficiency this past season. Seattle was 7th. What rankings were you looking at?

I went off total offense. Either way, 16th is average

No one ever said the QB was solely responsible for the offense sucking. You made that up.

That is exactly what you’re portraying!!! I didn’t make anything up. You’re actually sitting there as a die hard Vikings fan ripping Kirk cousins and Sam Bradford but defending Teddy Bridgewater?? You’ve done nothing but complain that Bradford and cousins didn’t win. Neither did the TEAM!! Teddy was a below average passer but they won because of AP and his defense. Case Keenum is a below average passer but they won because of their OC, RBs, OL and defense. How did either of those teams help cousins or Bradford? Outside of the defense which was good both years, what did the OC, OL or RBs do to help either of their QBs succeed??! I’ll tell you, nothing. And that’s the difference that you will forever miss and never understand.

Hope this helps.

Great points. Honest to God Stump we are just trying to help you see things rationally.

[Raptorman]

18th in TDs and 16th in yards is not a good year for a QB. Especially considering it was the best season of his career.

Dude come on.....he was about 200 yards away from being 12th in yards, which he would have had if he played all 16 games. As for TDs, he was also 2-3 tds away from being 15th or better. But the key is, interceptions. He threw 5 in 15 games. The only QBs that had less that year were Brady and Prescott. But let’s ignore that because it doesn’t help your argument stump.

When AP didn't run for a 100 yards, Teddy threw for an average of 120 yards more per game, and threw for twice as many TDs. When the you aren't running the ball well, you throw more, you have more passing yards and TDs (sound familiar). It wasn't even like they moved away from the run when AP wasn't running well either. So AP would get -1 on 1st down, 2 yards on 2nd, and then Teddy would have to pick up 3rd and 9. Which he actually did surprisingly well at. All because of AP though, who was more often than not on the sidelines on that down.

Again, come on. Twice as many TDs for Teddy huh? Those whopping 14 tds of his in a full season. 2 years in a row no less. You want to question Sam Bradford and Kirk Cousins but you’re gonna sit there and defend teddy? As a passer Teddy couldn’t hold Bradfords or cousins jock strap. But anything you can somehow find to try and make those two look bad is what you will do. Teddy was a great guy and all but he wasn’t much of a QB. At first I thought so but the fact that he didn’t improve hardly at all in year 2 wasn’t very promising. And bad knee or not, he’s yet to get a starting gig again and looked like a train wreck in a mop up game vs Carolina last year. So please, don’t sit here and try to defend him as a passer or even bother talking about his “TDs”. You just ripped Bradford for being “18th in tds” in 15 games but are defending Teddy when he went 2 years straight of 14tds, which is pathetic for a starting QB. No less Teddy also barely broke 3000 yards both years but you’re calling out Bradford for throwing for 3800+ in 15 games. Anything to help your argument!

And you’re saying Teddy had to deal with 3rd and 9’s. Cousins and Bradford didn’t?? AP carried that team and you know it. Hardly ever did a RB carry a game for either Bradford or Cousins. Cousins had 2 games out of 16 where he had a RB break 100 yards (Cook vs Miami/Murray vs Arz). Bradford had 0 out of 15 games. So TWO games out of 31 where either QB had a 100 yard rusher. Teddy had 8 of 16 games that year where AP broke 98 yards or more. Teddy had 4 times the 100 yard rushers in half the amount of games.

No less you completely missed my point regarding AP running over 100 vs AP crapping the bed. When AP went over 98 yards in 2015, we were 8-0. When he was under 98, we were 3-5. And in those 3 wins (KC, Chi and GB) Teddy had 1 good game vs a crap Chicago which happened to be his only 3+ TD game of his career. The KC game he threw 2 picks and barely broke 50% completion percentage and GB he threw for a pathetic 99 yards, barely broke 50% completion percentage and threw a pick. 2 of those 3 games were won on defense. And what does it show? That teddy couldn’t carry the weight when we needed him to. Not even just a little bit. It’s hard for any QB to but Teddy could hardly pull any wins out of it. One to be exact.

I would refrain from anymore Teddy talk if I was you because you’re drawing dead there. And it does nothing but hurt your argument because you’re defending a much worse QB than Cousins or Bradford. In the end, you’re just contradicting yourself by trying to defend Teddy in any way. He goes completely against what you, specifically, “look for” in a good QB and the stats show that. I’d quit while you’re ahead man. But go ahead and say “I wasn’t trying to defend Teddy but.....”

GB, Seattle, Houston and Philly were all 16th or better in scoring efficiency this past season. Seattle was 7th. What rankings were you looking at?

I went off total offense. Either way, 16th is average

No one ever said the QB was solely responsible for the offense sucking. You made that up.

That is exactly what you’re portraying!!! I didn’t make anything up. You’re actually sitting there as a die hard Vikings fan ripping Kirk cousins and Sam Bradford but defending Teddy Bridgewater?? You’ve done nothing but complain that Bradford and cousins didn’t win. Neither did the TEAM!! Teddy was a below average passer but they won because of AP and his defense. Case Keenum is a below average passer but they won because of their OC, RBs, OL and defense. How did either of those teams help cousins or Bradford? Outside of the defense which was good both years, what did the OC, OL or RBs do to help either of their QBs succeed??! I’ll tell you, nothing. And that’s the difference that you will forever miss and never understand.

Hope this helps.

You know what Teddy has the Cousins, Keenum and Bradford don't? A winning record in games he started. Ultimately, isn't that the bottom line?

[StumpHunter]

Dude come on.....he was about 200 yards away from being 12th in yards, which he would have had if he played all 16 games. As for TDs, he was also 2-3 tds away from being 15th or better. But the key is, interceptions. He threw 5 in 15 games. The only QBs that had less that year were Brady and Prescott. But let’s ignore that because it doesn’t help your argument stump.



Again, come on. Twice as many TDs for Teddy huh? Those whopping 14 tds of his in a full season. 2 years in a row no less. You want to question Sam Bradford and Kirk Cousins but you’re gonna sit there and defend teddy? As a passer Teddy couldn’t hold Bradfords or cousins jock strap. But anything you can somehow find to try and make those two look bad is what you will do. Teddy was a great guy and all but he wasn’t much of a QB. At first I thought so but the fact that he didn’t improve hardly at all in year 2 wasn’t very promising. And bad knee or not, he’s yet to get a starting gig again and looked like a train wreck in a mop up game vs Carolina last year. So please, don’t sit here and try to defend him as a passer or even bother talking about his “TDs”. You just ripped Bradford for being “18th in tds” in 15 games but are defending Teddy when he went 2 years straight of 14tds, which is pathetic for a starting QB. No less Teddy also barely broke 3000 yards both years but you’re calling out Bradford for throwing for 3800+ in 15 games. Anything to help your argument!

And you’re saying Teddy had to deal with 3rd and 9’s. Cousins and Bradford didn’t?? AP carried that team and you know it. Hardly ever did a RB carry a game for either Bradford or Cousins. Cousins had 2 games out of 16 where he had a RB break 100 yards (Cook vs Miami/Murray vs Arz). Bradford had 0 out of 15 games. So TWO games out of 31 where either QB had a 100 yard rusher. Teddy had 8 of 16 games that year where AP broke 98 yards or more. Teddy had 4 times the 100 yard rushers in half the amount of games.

No less you completely missed my point regarding AP running over 100 vs AP crapping the bed. When AP went over 98 yards in 2015, we were 8-0. When he was under 98, we were 3-5. And in those 3 wins (KC, Chi and GB) Teddy had 1 good game vs a crap Chicago which happened to be his only 3+ TD game of his career. The KC game he threw 2 picks and barely broke 50% completion percentage and GB he threw for a pathetic 99 yards, barely broke 50% completion percentage and threw a pick. 2 of those 3 games were won on defense. And what does it show? That teddy couldn’t carry the weight when we needed him to. Not even just a little bit. It’s hard for any QB to but Teddy could hardly pull any wins out of it. One to be exact.

I would refrain from anymore Teddy talk if I was you because you’re drawing dead there. And it does nothing but hurt your argument because you’re defending a much worse QB than Cousins or Bradford. In the end, you’re just contradicting yourself by trying to defend Teddy in any way. He goes completely against what you, specifically, “look for” in a good QB and the stats show that. I’d quit while you’re ahead man. But go ahead and say “I wasn’t trying to defend Teddy but.....”



I went off total offense. Either way, 16th is average



That is exactly what you’re portraying!!! I didn’t make anything up. You’re actually sitting there as a die hard Vikings fan ripping Kirk cousins and Sam Bradford but defending Teddy Bridgewater?? You’ve done nothing but complain that Bradford and cousins didn’t win. Neither did the TEAM!! Teddy was a below average passer but they won because of AP and his defense. Case Keenum is a below average passer but they won because of their OC, RBs, OL and defense. How did either of those teams help cousins or Bradford? Outside of the defense which was good both years, what did the OC, OL or RBs do to help either of their QBs succeed??! I’ll tell you, nothing. And that’s the difference that you will forever miss and never understand.

Hope this helps.

You know what Teddy has the Cousins, Keenum and Bradford don't? A winning record in games he started. Ultimately, isn't that the bottom line?

QBs don't win games, RBs do. Everyone knows that.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Foles is a guy who, with the right cast around him can play really well(like Cousins). I think he will fail in Jacksonville, but I think Cousins would have too. Cousins is more durable and younger, but Foles has proven he can step up big in big games.

You asked for an example, Foles is as close as you can get to Cousins hitting the open market.

Now you give me an example of a QB getting a 3 year, fully guaranteed contract. Rodgers, Wentz and Wilson are all significantly better QBs than Cousins, but none of them got fully guaranteed deals. Big deals, longer deals, but not fully guaranteed.

People really need to get over the Guaranteed contract thing. Tell me, what difference does it really make? Let's say they signed him for $84, $60 guaranteed and $8 million a year roster bonus? The cap hit would be the same. Nothing changes as to how he plays. They aren't going to dump him the last year and take a $20 million cap hit.

Let's say they signed him for 5 years instead. $145 million. $70 million guaranteed. That's about 50%, pretty much want current hard guarantees are for QB's. If we wanted to cut him after 3 years, it would be a $28 million cap hit. So now, we cut him after 3 years, Cap is is what again? Bueller?

I second VV great points Raptor. Love the Bueller part

[Pondering Her Percy]

You know what Teddy has the Cousins, Keenum and Bradford don't? A winning record in games he started. Ultimately, isn't that the bottom line?

QBs don't win games, RBs do. Everyone knows that.

Lol yeah because teddy was really slinging it in 2015 with 14tds, 9 ints and just over 3000 yards in 16 games. This is part of what you’ll just never understand man. If you somehow think it was teddy winning us games that year, I’d love whatever you’re smoking. Teddy was no Ponder but he wasn’t close to the QB Bradford or Cousins are. If Bradford or Cousins were the QB in 2015 there would be a good shot we’d at least be in the nfc championship game because we beat Seattle and we would have beat Arizona the following game IMO. It would of made a world of difference if either QB had a RB like AP, healthy no less. I think you’ll see a world of difference this year with cousins as long as we stray away from what Flip did last year. If cousins doesn’t succeed with a good running game I’ll have no problem eating crow but I don’t see myself having to do that.

[StumpHunter]

Foles is a guy who, with the right cast around him can play really well(like Cousins). I think he will fail in Jacksonville, but I think Cousins would have too. Cousins is more durable and younger, but Foles has proven he can step up big in big games.

You asked for an example, Foles is as close as you can get to Cousins hitting the open market.

Now you give me an example of a QB getting a 3 year, fully guaranteed contract. Rodgers, Wentz and Wilson are all significantly better QBs than Cousins, but none of them got fully guaranteed deals. Big deals, longer deals, but not fully guaranteed.

People really need to get over the Guaranteed contract thing. Tell me, what difference does it really make? Let's say they signed him for $84, $60 guaranteed and $8 million a year roster bonus? The cap hit would be the same. Nothing changes as to how he plays. They aren't going to dump him the last year and take a $20 million cap hit.

Let's say they signed him for 5 years instead. $145 million. $70 million guaranteed. That's about 50%, pretty much want current hard guarantees are for QB's. If we wanted to cut him after 3 years, it would be a $28 million cap hit. So now, we cut him after 3 years, Cap is is what again? Bueller?

Or they could have had the guaranteed most of the money up front and the cap hit was 10 million spread out over 2 years. Where did you get this 28 million number?

Regardless, you are describing a situation where Cousins sucks and the Vikings want to cut him, making any contract a bad one, fully guaranteed or not.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Desperation looking for a loop hole. We are talking about contracts signed after Kirk signed his. Who are the above average very good passers that signed since Kirk that are making less?

Foles. The Super Bowl MVP is making 22 million per and less than half of his contract is guaranteed. The unprecedented nature of Cousins contract was the fully guaranteed part, btw. It leaves the Vikings in a horrible negotiating spot if he is good and they want to extend him, and in an even worse spot if he starts to struggle. There is a reason no team has followed suit.

I don't need to look for a loophole. Cousins isn't as good as Wentz and doesn't have near the potential. It is just a fact that a good portion of that 128 million will be paid this year and next.

Shaking....my.....head. I hope I’m reading this wrong and you didn’t really just use Foles as an example. Then follow it up by saying you think he’ll fail in Jacksonville just because even you don’t trust him and it covers your rear by saying it. Foles can succeed under very specific circumstances just like Keenum or many average to below average QBs could. But I’m sure you’ll always ride out his SB win after taking over an 11-2 team. I guess that makes it ok when he fails anywhere else he goes. Foles will follow the path of Keenum IMO and get a big contract just to follow it up by being stop gaps for teams and eventually make his way back to the bench. I personally don’t think Nick Foles is a good QB. I think he’s better than Keenum but I don’t put him in the top half of QBs in the nfl. Just a poor example if you ask me

[StumpHunter]

QBs don't win games, RBs do. Everyone knows that.

Lol yeah because teddy was really slinging it in 2015 with 14tds, 9 ints and just over 3000 yards in 16 games. This is part of what you’ll just never understand man. If you somehow think it was teddy winning us games that year, I’d love whatever you’re smoking. Teddy was no Ponder but he wasn’t close to the QB Bradford or Cousins are. If Bradford or Cousins were the QB in 2015 there would be a good shot we’d at least be in the nfc championship game because we beat Seattle and we would have beat Arizona the following game IMO. It would of made a world of difference if either QB had a RB like AP, healthy no less. I think you’ll see a world of difference this year with cousins as long as we stray away from what Flip did last year. If cousins doesn’t succeed with a good running game I’ll have no problem eating crow but I don’t see myself having to do that.

He was a second year QB playing on a worse team, outside of RB, than Cousins. Worse line, worse receivers and a worse defense. That must mean the RB is more important than the QB, and we are paying the wrong guy 15% of the cap.

If Walsh doesn't miss a chip shot FG there is a good shot we are in the NFCCG. I have watched Cousins and Bradford in big games, and scoring 9 points against that D in that weather seems unlikely.

I know Teddy struggled in playing against starters with backups in a meaningless game in week 17, and I honestly hope that is who he is now. It would be great if the Saints gave up a 3rd and more cap than they can afford for a backup QB who is washed up. At the end of the day though, our QB played just as poorly with everything on the line, playing with starters, against a team that would have been better off if they lost to us. That is all on JDF too though, right?

[StumpHunter]

Foles. The Super Bowl MVP is making 22 million per and less than half of his contract is guaranteed. The unprecedented nature of Cousins contract was the fully guaranteed part, btw. It leaves the Vikings in a horrible negotiating spot if he is good and they want to extend him, and in an even worse spot if he starts to struggle. There is a reason no team has followed suit.

I don't need to look for a loophole. Cousins isn't as good as Wentz and doesn't have near the potential. It is just a fact that a good portion of that 128 million will be paid this year and next.

Shaking....my.....head. I hope I’m reading this wrong and you didn’t really just use Foles as an example. Then follow it up by saying you think he’ll fail in Jacksonville just because even you don’t trust him and it covers your rear by saying it. Foles can succeed under very specific circumstances just like Keenum or many average to below average QBs could. But I’m sure you’ll always ride out his SB win after taking over an 11-2 team. I guess that makes it ok when he fails anywhere else he goes. Foles will follow the path of Keenum IMO and get a big contract just to follow it up by being stop gaps for teams and eventually make his way back to the bench. I personally don’t think Nick Foles is a good QB. I think he’s better than Keenum but I don’t put him in the top half of QBs in the nfl. Just a poor example if you ask me

I mean I would say after the 2017 season, Case was just outside the top 10. Maybe even sneak into the top 10. See there are some guys I would have taken him over that others might not. I would have taken Case over Newton and Winston. I'd even have taken him over some of these older QBs such as Manning, Brees, Rivers.

It's hard to say "yeah I would love to have Tom Brady over Case Keenum" back then because the guy is 40 and only has a few years left. Granted Brady is way better but Brady also isnt 30.

From a skill perspective, I would have ranked Case around 10-15. From a "who I want right now standpoint" I would have wanted then I would have ranked him inside the top 10 for sure.