2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by bsandhar »

PurpleKoolaid wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:40 am
fiestavike wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:33 am

He should be very effective on crossing routes and sitting down against zones and better at running after the catch and blocking than Kyle Rudolph, so I think he'll be an upgrade overall.
He's a 2nd round pick, he better be better then Kyle. Kyle has gotten lazy the past few years. We should have went receiver here, there were so many good ones left when we got Smith, who really isnt worth a 2nd. Being the 3rd best TE isnt saying much when there aernt any real good ones left after the Iowa boys were drafted. Unless we are getting rid of Kyle this season and I dont see that happening. Kyle,Morgan,Conklin could handle whatever Kubiak has in mind.
I don't think we ever need to go WR again after pulling 2 elite wrs in the later rounds, we obviously have an eye for that. Look at our past wrs we've drafted early. Percy Harvin (who actually was really really good), CP84, and LaSucks Treadwell. Tired of this we need a 3rd wr ####. We need weapons that mismatch. I agree with this pick wholeheartedly. Kubiak system exploits teams with a good tight end with athleticism using playaction. This will help kirk and dalvin
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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by 808vikingsfan »

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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Irv Smith would’ve went in the first round in any other draft. This draft was arguably one of the best ever at the TE position. There were analysts out there that had Smith rated higher than Fant. If you think Irv Smith was a reach in the 2nd round or not worthy of being picked in the 2nd round then you don’t know football. In the last 5 years, the only TEs that were better coming out of college drafted in the first round were arguably Evan engram and Eric Ebron. In 5 years!! Smith is a first round pick any other year but was overshadowed by hockenson and fant. And he even out-produced fant this year. Daniel Jeremiah, an ex-nfl scout was saying this was an A+ pick and excellent value. But some guys either think it’s a reach and wasn’t worthy because he was the 3rd TE drafted. I take an ex nfl scouts take and the film over someone that clearly doesn’t follow college football. Like I said, you don’t know football if you think smith wasn’t worthy of a 2nd round pick this year or even a first in any draft but this one. He is an excellent TE. The guy set TE records at Alabama
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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by CharVike »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:19 pm Irv Smith would’ve went in the first round in any other draft. This draft was arguably one of the best ever at the TE position. There were analysts out there that had Smith rated higher than Fant. If you think Irv Smith was a reach in the 2nd round or not worthy of being picked in the 2nd round then you don’t know football. In the last 5 years, the only TEs that were better coming out of college drafted in the first round were arguably Evan engram and Eric Ebron. In 5 years!! Smith is a first round pick any other year but was overshadowed by hockenson and fant. And he even out-produced fant this year. Daniel Jeremiah, an ex-nfl scout was saying this was an A+ pick and excellent value. But some guys either think it’s a reach and wasn’t worthy because he was the 3rd TE drafted. I take an ex nfl scouts take and the film over someone that clearly doesn’t follow college football. Like I said, you don’t know football if you think smith wasn’t worthy of a 2nd round pick this year or even a first in any draft but this one. He is an excellent TE. The guy set TE records at Alabama
You make some good points. The guy can run which is a huge plus. As some have pointed out his size is good enough and other players have succeeded with that type of size. So I think I over reached with my size complaint. Plus the dude is very young and still maturing physically. I think it might have been a very good pick. Should add a new wrinkle. Obviously he was high on Ricks board. Beyond that very few rookie WRs ever contribute much year 1. Tough position and takes time.
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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by fiestavike »

bsandhar wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:46 pm
fiestavike wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:56 am


This is why I wouldn't have drafted this guy until late. Terrible combine performance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hp9r9EdTb4
LOL. If you're drafting players based on combine performances, then guys with good football tape (btw his combine performance wasn't bad, he showed that he runs nice routes and has solid hands, which was a supposed "knock" on him) like Irv would fall, and guys like Heyward Bey, Williamson, Metcalf (who will be a bust) should go higher. I wouldn't give a flying #### about the combine, I want to see game tape and how guys perform against great competition and Irv checks off those box so I could give a damn about him running between some cones. Love the pick! Spielman has always been good at drafting talent. I just wonder if he can finally put together a decent O-Line.
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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

CharVike wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 7:46 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:19 pm Irv Smith would’ve went in the first round in any other draft. This draft was arguably one of the best ever at the TE position. There were analysts out there that had Smith rated higher than Fant. If you think Irv Smith was a reach in the 2nd round or not worthy of being picked in the 2nd round then you don’t know football. In the last 5 years, the only TEs that were better coming out of college drafted in the first round were arguably Evan engram and Eric Ebron. In 5 years!! Smith is a first round pick any other year but was overshadowed by hockenson and fant. And he even out-produced fant this year. Daniel Jeremiah, an ex-nfl scout was saying this was an A+ pick and excellent value. But some guys either think it’s a reach and wasn’t worthy because he was the 3rd TE drafted. I take an ex nfl scouts take and the film over someone that clearly doesn’t follow college football. Like I said, you don’t know football if you think smith wasn’t worthy of a 2nd round pick this year or even a first in any draft but this one. He is an excellent TE. The guy set TE records at Alabama
You make some good points. The guy can run which is a huge plus. As some have pointed out his size is good enough and other players have succeeded with that type of size. So I think I over reached with my size complaint. Plus the dude is very young and still maturing physically. I think it might have been a very good pick. Should add a new wrinkle. Obviously he was high on Ricks board. Beyond that very few rookie WRs ever contribute much year 1. Tough position and takes time.
Yeah it's very similar to when we drafted Danielle Hunter. Hunter was 20 years old when we drafted him. It feels like he's been with us quite a while now but he's still only 24 years old. When you can find a talent like Hunter or Smith its an excellent pick but when they are as young as they are/were, it's THAT much better
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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

fiestavike wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 8:36 am
bsandhar wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:46 pm

LOL. If you're drafting players based on combine performances, then guys with good football tape (btw his combine performance wasn't bad, he showed that he runs nice routes and has solid hands, which was a supposed "knock" on him) like Irv would fall, and guys like Heyward Bey, Williamson, Metcalf (who will be a bust) should go higher. I wouldn't give a flying #### about the combine, I want to see game tape and how guys perform against great competition and Irv checks off those box so I could give a damn about him running between some cones. Love the pick! Spielman has always been good at drafting talent. I just wonder if he can finally put together a decent O-Line.
You did not pick up what I was putting down. :confused:
Well I guess I'm not sure what you were putting down either. Saying "we shouldnt have drafted this guy until late" doesnt add up. No less you're basing it off of a combine performance. How long do you think he was possibly going to last? Cincy picked Drew Sample 2 picks after we took Smith and Drew Sample couldnt hold Smith's jock strap. Smith was gone two picks later guaranteed. The tier 1 TE's were Hockenson, Fant and Smith. I could name you hundreds of players that didnt perform well at the combine. It literally means nothing. Smith was well deserving of that pick. We were lucky enough to have him fall to us.
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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by fiestavike »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 9:30 am
fiestavike wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 8:36 am

You did not pick up what I was putting down. :confused:
Well I guess I'm not sure what you were putting down either. Saying "we shouldnt have drafted this guy until late" doesnt add up. No less you're basing it off of a combine performance. How long do you think he was possibly going to last? Cincy picked Drew Sample 2 picks after we took Smith and Drew Sample couldnt hold Smith's jock strap. Smith was gone two picks later guaranteed. The tier 1 TE's were Hockenson, Fant and Smith. I could name you hundreds of players that didnt perform well at the combine. It literally means nothing. Smith was well deserving of that pick. We were lucky enough to have him fall to us.
I'm just curios, did you watch the link or did you see him during combine coverage? I am not talking about not measuring well in drill x or y.

If we don't ask him to do what he can't do, which seems to be locate and catch the ball over the shoulder, he could be very effective.
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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

fiestavike wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 10:28 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 9:30 am

Well I guess I'm not sure what you were putting down either. Saying "we shouldnt have drafted this guy until late" doesnt add up. No less you're basing it off of a combine performance. How long do you think he was possibly going to last? Cincy picked Drew Sample 2 picks after we took Smith and Drew Sample couldnt hold Smith's jock strap. Smith was gone two picks later guaranteed. The tier 1 TE's were Hockenson, Fant and Smith. I could name you hundreds of players that didnt perform well at the combine. It literally means nothing. Smith was well deserving of that pick. We were lucky enough to have him fall to us.
I'm just curios, did you watch the link or did you see him during combine coverage? I am not talking about not measuring well in drill x or y.

If we don't ask him to do what he can't do, which seems to be locate and catch the ball over the shoulder, he could be very effective.
I did watch it. Him falling to the ground and missing two balls results in "you not drafting him until late due to a terrible combine performance"? I mean outside of those two passes he didnt drop a single ball. That's a poor reason not to draft a player until late if you ask me.

Man never have I ever seen a year where this board has been this critical on the combine performances of the players we drafted. I dont even remember hardly talking about the combine numbers after the draft in previous years. It's almost like guys HAVE to find a way to complain about Spielman or his draft so we're resorting to combine numbers to say they are bad picks (not saying you, just in general). But like, come on guys. Between Mattison and now Irv Smith, some of you are acting like we just made two bone-headed picks by taking these two and you're basing it off the NFL combine when guys are running around in shorts. I dont get it. I know some of it is due to Spielman not drafting certain players that fans wanted but I mean in all reality, what do we know? Nothing. And what does the combine prove? Nothing. I could literally name hundreds of players over the years that were/are great players in this league but had "bad" combine numbers. I shouldnt even name numbers as plural because Mattison is being knocked for his 40 time and Smith is being knocked for two over the shoulder throws. And knocked to the point of saying "he was a reach", "he was a bad pick", or "I wouldnt have drafted him until late"....because of the NFL combine.....my mind is blown.
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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by fiestavike »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 11:12 am
fiestavike wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 10:28 am

I'm just curios, did you watch the link or did you see him during combine coverage? I am not talking about not measuring well in drill x or y.

If we don't ask him to do what he can't do, which seems to be locate and catch the ball over the shoulder, he could be very effective.
I did watch it. Him falling to the ground and missing two balls results in "you not drafting him until late due to a terrible combine performance"? I mean outside of those two passes he didnt drop a single ball. That's a poor reason not to draft a player until late if you ask me.

Man never have I ever seen a year where this board has been this critical on the combine performances of the players we drafted. I dont even remember hardly talking about the combine numbers after the draft in previous years. It's almost like guys HAVE to find a way to complain about Spielman or his draft so we're resorting to combine numbers to say they are bad picks (not saying you, just in general). But like, come on guys. Between Mattison and now Irv Smith, some of you are acting like we just made two bone-headed picks by taking these two and you're basing it off the NFL combine when guys are running around in shorts. I dont get it. I know some of it is due to Spielman not drafting certain players that fans wanted but I mean in all reality, what do we know? Nothing. And what does the combine prove? Nothing. I could literally name hundreds of players over the years that were/are great players in this league but had "bad" combine numbers. I shouldnt even name numbers as plural because Mattison is being knocked for his 40 time and Smith is being knocked for two over the shoulder throws. And knocked to the point of saying "he was a reach", "he was a bad pick", or "I wouldnt have drafted him until late"....because of the NFL combine.....my mind is blown.
It wasn't two passes, I believe it was 5, and he wen't 0 for 5 on making the catch, and 0 for 5 on even staying on his feet...against air. He's not much of an athlete and he's my least favorite pick of the draft, but I hope to be wrong about it, and I think if used to his strengths he can be moderately effective. I really hate taking him in the 2nd round, but so be it.
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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

fiestavike wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 11:30 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 11:12 am

I did watch it. Him falling to the ground and missing two balls results in "you not drafting him until late due to a terrible combine performance"? I mean outside of those two passes he didnt drop a single ball. That's a poor reason not to draft a player until late if you ask me.

Man never have I ever seen a year where this board has been this critical on the combine performances of the players we drafted. I dont even remember hardly talking about the combine numbers after the draft in previous years. It's almost like guys HAVE to find a way to complain about Spielman or his draft so we're resorting to combine numbers to say they are bad picks (not saying you, just in general). But like, come on guys. Between Mattison and now Irv Smith, some of you are acting like we just made two bone-headed picks by taking these two and you're basing it off the NFL combine when guys are running around in shorts. I dont get it. I know some of it is due to Spielman not drafting certain players that fans wanted but I mean in all reality, what do we know? Nothing. And what does the combine prove? Nothing. I could literally name hundreds of players over the years that were/are great players in this league but had "bad" combine numbers. I shouldnt even name numbers as plural because Mattison is being knocked for his 40 time and Smith is being knocked for two over the shoulder throws. And knocked to the point of saying "he was a reach", "he was a bad pick", or "I wouldnt have drafted him until late"....because of the NFL combine.....my mind is blown.
It wasn't two passes, I believe it was 5, and he wen't 0 for 5 on making the catch, and 0 for 5 on even staying on his feet...against air. He's not much of an athlete and he's my least favorite pick of the draft, but I hope to be wrong about it, and I think if used to his strengths he can be moderately effective. I really hate taking him in the 2nd round, but so be it.
Go watch the video again. He laid out for the first one and caught it, the second was a slight overthrow that wasnt caught and the 3rd he fell before the ball got there. So like I said, two that werent caught. I'm not sure how you can say he's not much of an athlete because of two missed balls. Jeremiah was saying in the beginning of that video that he is a better athlete coming out than OJ Howard was. The reason he is so highly touted is because of his athletic ability and downfield presence which is why he's been compared to Jordan Reed. If you dont like the pick, thats one thing. But if you dont think he should have been drafted this early because of his two dropped passes at the combine, thats a pretty poor argument. We werent taking him in the 3rd round so there was no other time to take him other than the 2nd. He would have been gone. He wouldnt be ranked ahead of Noah Fant by an NFL scout if he wasnt a good athlete or didnt have potential to be an effective TE.
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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by fiestavike »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 12:26 pm
fiestavike wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 11:30 am

It wasn't two passes, I believe it was 5, and he wen't 0 for 5 on making the catch, and 0 for 5 on even staying on his feet...against air. He's not much of an athlete and he's my least favorite pick of the draft, but I hope to be wrong about it, and I think if used to his strengths he can be moderately effective. I really hate taking him in the 2nd round, but so be it.
Go watch the video again. He laid out for the first one and caught it, the second was a slight overthrow that wasnt caught and the 3rd he fell before the ball got there. So like I said, two that werent caught. I'm not sure how you can say he's not much of an athlete because of two missed balls. Jeremiah was saying in the beginning of that video that he is a better athlete coming out than OJ Howard was. The reason he is so highly touted is because of his athletic ability and downfield presence which is why he's been compared to Jordan Reed. If you dont like the pick, thats one thing. But if you dont think he should have been drafted this early because of his two dropped passes at the combine, thats a pretty poor argument. We werent taking him in the 3rd round so there was no other time to take him other than the 2nd. He would have been gone. He wouldnt be ranked ahead of Noah Fant by an NFL scout if he wasnt a good athlete or didnt have potential to be an effective TE.
I have literally zero interest in arguments. You are free to believe what you want, and I don't care whatsoever whether you agree with me. My only interest is in expressing my view clearly. Take it for what its worth. For the record, it was more than the failed attempts illustrated in the video. I recall watching it live, and I recall posting in your thread about players we don't like that other do. Irv Smith Jr. was the guy I didn't like. Its not only limited to the combine. Its also manifest on tape that he struggles to make over the shoulder catches and to stay on his feet. Its also manifest in his athletic testing that he is a relatively poor athlete by NFL standards. Check his Sparq score. Again, if you like the pick, that's cool. I hope you are right. I'd say he's a 4th-5th round talent we took in the 2nd. That doesn't mean he can't or won't work out. He's quite good when running drag routes and sitting in zones. He has ability as a blocker. He has some straight line speed to threaten the seam. If we use him in a way that takes advantage of those skills, he could be successful! I'm happy about that! Still, he's not going to be great going vertical outside the hashes.
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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by YikesVikes »

Smith was an excellent choice. Selfish me wanted us to trade up to get Taylor or Ford though. Great pick.
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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

fiestavike wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 5:26 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 12:26 pm

Go watch the video again. He laid out for the first one and caught it, the second was a slight overthrow that wasnt caught and the 3rd he fell before the ball got there. So like I said, two that werent caught. I'm not sure how you can say he's not much of an athlete because of two missed balls. Jeremiah was saying in the beginning of that video that he is a better athlete coming out than OJ Howard was. The reason he is so highly touted is because of his athletic ability and downfield presence which is why he's been compared to Jordan Reed. If you dont like the pick, thats one thing. But if you dont think he should have been drafted this early because of his two dropped passes at the combine, thats a pretty poor argument. We werent taking him in the 3rd round so there was no other time to take him other than the 2nd. He would have been gone. He wouldnt be ranked ahead of Noah Fant by an NFL scout if he wasnt a good athlete or didnt have potential to be an effective TE.
I have literally zero interest in arguments. You are free to believe what you want, and I don't care whatsoever whether you agree with me. My only interest is in expressing my view clearly. Take it for what its worth. For the record, it was more than the failed attempts illustrated in the video. I recall watching it live, and I recall posting in your thread about players we don't like that other do. Irv Smith Jr. was the guy I didn't like. Its not only limited to the combine. Its also manifest on tape that he struggles to make over the shoulder catches and to stay on his feet. Its also manifest in his athletic testing that he is a relatively poor athlete by NFL standards. Check his Sparq score. Again, if you like the pick, that's cool. I hope you are right. I'd say he's a 4th-5th round talent we took in the 2nd. That doesn't mean he can't or won't work out. He's quite good when running drag routes and sitting in zones. He has ability as a blocker. He has some straight line speed to threaten the seam. If we use him in a way that takes advantage of those skills, he could be successful! I'm happy about that! Still, he's not going to be great going vertical outside the hashes.
And I respect that. There were players in this draft that I wasn’t big on and they might end up being studs who knows. One guy I didn’t want was Greg Little. I believe it was YikesVikes that didn’t want Dillard. He also had a favorite in butler who dropped a mile My favorite was ford who dropped a mile. We all have our preferences. And to be honest, we all probably know nothing lol. I will say though, you might think Smith was a 4th-5th round talent but there wasn’t the slightest chance he would have ever fell that far. Too much production in the best conference out there in 2018. 32 teams weren’t going to ignore that and let him drop. I could just about guarantee that Cincy would have taken him 2 picks after us.

On a side note: Man, the prospect visit tracker I always use on Walter football drastically failed me this year. Out of the entire list that it showed we visited with (obviously they don’t know about all the meetings we actually have with players), there wasn’t a single player on that list that we drafted. And we had the most picks in the draft this year with 12. Shows you how reliable that is lol. It usually has at least a couple players on it every year that we end up drafting. This year we drafted zero out 60 players listed. That blows my mind

And regarding my “predict the pick contest” I did this year that I mentioned during the draft, I started out hot and had 6 of the first 10 picks exact and then crumbled. Finished 2,997th place. That was out of like 10,000+ entries so I guess it’s not that bad but I was nowhere close to winning. The winner had 14 picks exact. That’s pretty damn legit. Better than every analyst out there
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Re: 2nd round pick- Vikings select Irv Smith- TE Alabama

Post by CharVike »

YikesVikes wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 8:27 pm Smith was an excellent choice. Selfish me wanted us to trade up to get Taylor or Ford though. Great pick.
Selfish me wanted Lock. Elway took him so he must be awful and won't be in the league very long. A couple camps and see ya. Ford wasn't a fit for the scheme. Too big and no movement. This isn't a power OL. It's a wuss scheme which I feel somebody will get their head knocked off eventually. Cousins? Smith only being 20 was a nice pick. That is very young but as another pointed out Hunter was only 20 also.
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