Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by PurpleMustReign » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:50 am

UKno1VIKING wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:27 am
I found myself redfaced and steam coming out of my ears on the way home from work (the news dropped in the evening UK time) when i heard on ESPN radio that we'd agreed this contract with Barr. I'm still scratching my head about many things regarding this scenario, but can also see some plus points to come out of it.

For me, the move was to move away from Barr, and use our first pick on a LB.
I've never been a big fan of Barr, he seems to go missing a lot. And people can say its the scheme, he does things off the ball etc. But is it just a coincidence that he suddenly becomes a visable menace the last four games of his contract year? Something stinks for me there.
On quite a lot of draft boards, both Devin's were still available, and if not White then Bush was always available. A rookie LB contract over 13.5m a year Barr makes a lot more sense financially, so we can sort out other areas with a lot more resources (O-line). And we could ptoentially in the "Devin's", have a future star on our defense.

However, the fact he has taken less money (not by much, but less anyway) may be a signal that he does want to play to win? That's a straw i'm clutching at.

He's also a very good athlete, with tons of talent. There's no question mark there at all, it's more about whats going on in his head that will determine which Anthony Barr we see going forward. Years 1 and 2 Barr (yes please). Years 3 and 4 (no thanks).

Overall, i feel he is a great talent. And if he plays to that talent, we are a very lucky team.
However, as far as the finances go, paying for a top 5 (salary at least) LB, may have condemned us to another season like last. With very little space to improve the area we know needs work (O-line). Would i have felt better with Saffold in, instead of Barr? Absolutely. And at a smaller number too.
we also now need to find cap for a genuine no.2 RB.

I have a bad feeling about this season, and that is down to this signing. I hope i'm wrong.
I am going to guess that they will use him as a pass rusher more, especially if Griffen leaves (which it certainly sounds like he will). He may essentially be another DLineman.
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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by CharVike » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:54 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:50 am
UKno1VIKING wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:27 am
I found myself redfaced and steam coming out of my ears on the way home from work (the news dropped in the evening UK time) when i heard on ESPN radio that we'd agreed this contract with Barr. I'm still scratching my head about many things regarding this scenario, but can also see some plus points to come out of it.

For me, the move was to move away from Barr, and use our first pick on a LB.
I've never been a big fan of Barr, he seems to go missing a lot. And people can say its the scheme, he does things off the ball etc. But is it just a coincidence that he suddenly becomes a visable menace the last four games of his contract year? Something stinks for me there.
On quite a lot of draft boards, both Devin's were still available, and if not White then Bush was always available. A rookie LB contract over 13.5m a year Barr makes a lot more sense financially, so we can sort out other areas with a lot more resources (O-line). And we could ptoentially in the "Devin's", have a future star on our defense.

However, the fact he has taken less money (not by much, but less anyway) may be a signal that he does want to play to win? That's a straw i'm clutching at.

He's also a very good athlete, with tons of talent. There's no question mark there at all, it's more about whats going on in his head that will determine which Anthony Barr we see going forward. Years 1 and 2 Barr (yes please). Years 3 and 4 (no thanks).

Overall, i feel he is a great talent. And if he plays to that talent, we are a very lucky team.
However, as far as the finances go, paying for a top 5 (salary at least) LB, may have condemned us to another season like last. With very little space to improve the area we know needs work (O-line). Would i have felt better with Saffold in, instead of Barr? Absolutely. And at a smaller number too.
we also now need to find cap for a genuine no.2 RB.

I have a bad feeling about this season, and that is down to this signing. I hope i'm wrong.
I am going to guess that they will use him as a pass rusher more, especially if Griffen leaves (which it certainly sounds like he will). He may essentially be another DLineman.
They can't keep Griff. Even if he takes less CAP I don't see how he could fit. And I agree with making Barr a pass rusher. He might be able to help in that roll. It won't happen over night but he has the physical skills needed to succeed. Matter of tech and experience. Yes the OL should be the top priority. But maybe it's not that far off. Our OL is ranked as a complete joke yet Indy is ranked as one of the best. I seen Indy for the 1st time this year in the playoffs and that OL was smoked. Just completely man handled. To me that OL sucks and is worse than our crap show. So I don't even know how these rankings come about. To me Indy and us are even based on the game I saw. Really Indy is worse IMO. If a OL is ranked that good they don't get absolutely abused. They do the abusing like the old skins line "the hogs". You dominate the action. So to me the NFL in general has OL issues based on what I saw from one of the best ranked. OL might fly off the board early and there won't be much left when we pick. Even Ford who I have seen mocked in the 20s might fly up the board.
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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by mike2mike » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:18 am

UKno1VIKING wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:27 am
I found myself redfaced and steam coming out of my ears on the way home from work (the news dropped in the evening UK time) when i heard on ESPN radio that we'd agreed this contract with Barr. I'm still scratching my head about many things regarding this scenario, but can also see some plus points to come out of it.

For me, the move was to move away from Barr, and use our first pick on a LB.
I've never been a big fan of Barr, he seems to go missing a lot. And people can say its the scheme, he does things off the ball etc. But is it just a coincidence that he suddenly becomes a visable menace the last four games of his contract year? Something stinks for me there.
On quite a lot of draft boards, both Devin's were still available, and if not White then Bush was always available. A rookie LB contract over 13.5m a year Barr makes a lot more sense financially, so we can sort out other areas with a lot more resources (O-line). And we could ptoentially in the "Devin's", have a future star on our defense.

However, the fact he has taken less money (not by much, but less anyway) may be a signal that he does want to play to win? That's a straw i'm clutching at.

He's also a very good athlete, with tons of talent. There's no question mark there at all, it's more about whats going on in his head that will determine which Anthony Barr we see going forward. Years 1 and 2 Barr (yes please). Years 3 and 4 (no thanks).

Overall, i feel he is a great talent. And if he plays to that talent, we are a very lucky team.
However, as far as the finances go, paying for a top 5 (salary at least) LB, may have condemned us to another season like last. With very little space to improve the area we know needs work (O-line). Would i have felt better with Saffold in, instead of Barr? Absolutely. And at a smaller number too.
we also now need to find cap for a genuine no.2 RB.

I have a bad feeling about this season, and that is down to this signing. I hope i'm wrong.
I had a really bad feeling heading into this offseason before this signing. I think the resources spent at QB the two years we had Bradford and then Cousins didn’t give us enough cap flexibility and we are no longer young at DL which is I think is super important for the longevity of our team’s success. I argued against Cousins (due to cost and cap andflexibility reasons not talent) but once we grabbed him I figured it didn’t help to harp on it.

The challenge is, I think most OL are not going to work out in the NFL on account that since 2012 you haven’t had quality practice reps due to a change in the rules about padded practice which hurts the OL more than any other position. First round OL went from one of the most reliable positions to hit on in the early rounds of the draft to a really high bust percentage. I think this is a move that helps us short and long term but I also deduce we have multiple bids on one or more of our players that gave us the confidence to up the bid.
We’re basically paying Barr the contract Harvin got when he went to Seattle 7 years after cap room increases. I’m guessing we’ll get a lot more out of Barr then the Hawks got out of Harvin. I would have preferred a franchise tag and attempt to trade Barr for a 1st or more and if not try to extend him but we would have had to cut Everson Griffin early to make the cap room to tag Barr.
But with Barr signed I feel a bit better.
I would like to see us.
1)trade a CB for an early pick and maybe throw in Rudolph as a sweetener if need be.
2)Sign a discount DL and restructure Griffin or cut him and maybe sign a top young DT like Danny Shelton.
3)trade wherever we need to so we can draft a DL in a position of value. Shouldn’t be too hard given the alleged quality available in the draft.
4)Sign a boatload of OL from AAF, CFL and from other teams practice squads to tryouts or with zero to limited roster bonuses. The idea is that OL with fresh experience are farther along in development and if we can find the right player who is coachable, talented and experienced we can get an OL at a steep discount that may be even better then anything else available at least to open the year. The idea is to rotate through a larger number of them then most teams picking the best of 7 to add to a longer duration tryout and repeating until you can filter it down. Starting with an experience is an advantage to push the others as well.
5)I like the idea of signing a cheap center or two and moving Elflein to guard. I think Easton can come back cheap and maybe you can get someone else like Ryan Khalil but not Matt. I think ONeil will move to left tackl and Reif will play the other guard. Isadora and Easton might compete for that spot as well and since they are cheaper Reif will really have to earn the spot and/or restructure, or we will utilize the cap room elsewhere. That leaves a competition at RT between the new cheap AAF/CFL/practice squad signing, and the UDFA Collins from our squad last year and Rashod Hill and any draft picks that are added.

I think that might be a good offseason, but we may have cap room to do a bit more, with an emphasis on DL. And perhaps even we could trade two corners and sign Munnerlyn for cheap.
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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by PurpleMustReign » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:23 am

I also wonder what Barr's signing does to Rudolph. I can't imagine him staying without a massive pay cut or restructure.
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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by CharVike » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:34 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:23 am
I also wonder what Barr's signing does to Rudolph. I can't imagine him staying without a massive pay cut or restructure.
IMO Rudy either takes a massive pay cut or bye bye. He's not good enough so in effect not much of a loss. Can't stretch the seam at all. Same with Griff. Bye Bye. That gives us more coin. Barr should take his spot especially during passing situations. Richardson was good but I would never pay this guy big time money. Once paid he will lay down. No teams are jumping on him like they did Barr. Another one year or bye bye. As I stated he was a rental. Our CAP is fine. Once they get the not living up to it stiffs we will be in even better shape. Like Rhodes not earning his CAP. But we have question at CB with the Hughes injury and this Hill in the same place as a dope dealer. Not good news for both.
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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by fiestavike » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:33 pm

CharVike wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:34 am
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:23 am
I also wonder what Barr's signing does to Rudolph. I can't imagine him staying without a massive pay cut or restructure.
IMO Rudy either takes a massive pay cut or bye bye. He's not good enough so in effect not much of a loss. Can't stretch the seam at all. Same with Griff. Bye Bye. That gives us more coin. Barr should take his spot especially during passing situations. Richardson was good but I would never pay this guy big time money. Once paid he will lay down. No teams are jumping on him like they did Barr. Another one year or bye bye. As I stated he was a rental. Our CAP is fine. Once they get the not living up to it stiffs we will be in even better shape. Like Rhodes not earning his CAP. But we have question at CB with the Hughes injury and this Hill in the same place as a dope dealer. Not good news for both.
I'm in favor of cutting Rudolph. He's a great guy, but not a great NFL player. He's just ok. Doesn't block well, doesn't get much separation, doesn't run well after the catch or have good balance. I love his wingspan in the redzone, but otherwise, he's not special.
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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:40 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:33 pm
CharVike wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:34 am


IMO Rudy either takes a massive pay cut or bye bye. He's not good enough so in effect not much of a loss. Can't stretch the seam at all. Same with Griff. Bye Bye. That gives us more coin. Barr should take his spot especially during passing situations. Richardson was good but I would never pay this guy big time money. Once paid he will lay down. No teams are jumping on him like they did Barr. Another one year or bye bye. As I stated he was a rental. Our CAP is fine. Once they get the not living up to it stiffs we will be in even better shape. Like Rhodes not earning his CAP. But we have question at CB with the Hughes injury and this Hill in the same place as a dope dealer. Not good news for both.
I'm in favor of cutting Rudolph. He's a great guy, but not a great NFL player. He's just ok. Doesn't block well, doesn't get much separation, doesn't run well after the catch or have good balance. I love his wingspan in the redzone, but otherwise, he's not special.
I mean he was a top 10 TE in his prime but right now he's definitely beyond his prime. I don't know if we should necessarily cut him. I just would he would take an extension or restructure.
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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by fiestavike » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:43 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:40 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:33 pm


I'm in favor of cutting Rudolph. He's a great guy, but not a great NFL player. He's just ok. Doesn't block well, doesn't get much separation, doesn't run well after the catch or have good balance. I love his wingspan in the redzone, but otherwise, he's not special.
I mean he was a top 10 TE in his prime but right now he's definitely beyond his prime. I don't know if we should necessarily cut him. I just would he would take an extension or restructure.
He's never been one of the 10 best TEs in the NFL at any point in his career.
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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by PurpleMustReign » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:43 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:40 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:33 pm


I'm in favor of cutting Rudolph. He's a great guy, but not a great NFL player. He's just ok. Doesn't block well, doesn't get much separation, doesn't run well after the catch or have good balance. I love his wingspan in the redzone, but otherwise, he's not special.
I mean he was a top 10 TE in his prime but right now he's definitely beyond his prime. I don't know if we should necessarily cut him. I just would he would take an extension or restructure.
David Morgan has looked good and is much cheaper.
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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:16 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:43 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:40 pm


I mean he was a top 10 TE in his prime but right now he's definitely beyond his prime. I don't know if we should necessarily cut him. I just would he would take an extension or restructure.
He's never been one of the 10 best TEs in the NFL at any point in his career.
How has he not? In 2016 he was 3rd in receptions, 4th in yards and 2nd in TDs. In 2017, he was 9th in receptions and 2nd in TDs. His 2nd year he made the pro bowl and was 2nd in the NFL in TDs. Even this past year he was 7th in receptions and 10th in yards. His TDs were just down from usual but still tied for 9th. And I believe it was up until a year or so ago, Rudolph had more TDs than any TE in the NFL other than Gronk leading up until that point. I'm not saying he was top 10 every single year because clearly he was hurt early on, but those are top 10 TE numbers. Especially in 2016. There is zero denying that. So to say he was "never top 10 at any point in his career" is 100% false.
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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:20 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:43 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:40 pm


I mean he was a top 10 TE in his prime but right now he's definitely beyond his prime. I don't know if we should necessarily cut him. I just would he would take an extension or restructure.
David Morgan has looked good and is much cheaper.
I mean define "looked good"? He comes up with some big catches here and there but it's pretty hard to tell if he's a good TE or not.
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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by fiestavike » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:31 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:16 pm
fiestavike wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:43 pm


He's never been one of the 10 best TEs in the NFL at any point in his career.
How has he not? In 2016 he was 3rd in receptions, 4th in yards and 2nd in TDs. In 2017, he was 9th in receptions and 2nd in TDs. His 2nd year he made the pro bowl and was 2nd in the NFL in TDs. Even this past year he was 7th in receptions and 10th in yards. His TDs were just down from usual but still tied for 9th. And I believe it was up until a year or so ago, Rudolph had more TDs than any TE in the NFL other than Gronk leading up until that point. I'm not saying he was top 10 every single year because clearly he was hurt early on, but those are top 10 TE numbers. Especially in 2016. There is zero denying that. So to say he was "never top 10 at any point in his career" is 100% false.
We don't analyze things in the same way. You tend to point to numbers such as touchdowns, receptions, etc. I have no doubt Rudolph was a top 10 fantasy tight end. I don't think that indicates he was a top 10 tight end.
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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by PurpleMustReign » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:41 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:20 pm
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:43 pm


David Morgan has looked good and is much cheaper.
I mean define "looked good"? He comes up with some big catches here and there but it's pretty hard to tell if he's a good TE or not.
I think he's a better overall tight end than Rudolph. He's a far better blocker (he's actually really, really good at it) and catches what is thrown his way. Obviously he doesn't have the stats Kyle does but when I think of a TE I see David Morgan before Rudolph.
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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by VikingLord » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:57 pm

mike2mike wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:02 pm
720pete wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:09 pm
Guess we won't be signing any big name offensive linemen then.
The structure of the contract was good, less than 50% guarenteed, spread over 5 years, a lot less than the 18M number per year thrown around, probably less up front, he took less then he was offered by the jets to stay with us.
Also, the Vikings upping their offer in the eleventh hour suggests they have some unforeseen cap windfall. There are 3 ways that this could happen. Either we had some money allocated to defense and Sheldon and Suh and others had too high of aśking price or a player who was previously unlikely to restructure that we planned on keeping was willing to take a cut and we may be finalizing something like Reif restructuring or Linval Joseph or something. The possibility of signing Suh might motivate Joseph to restructure to stick around for instance.
The third and I think most likely scenario is we have a silent bidding war between GMs and we are close to finalizing a trade that sends a player away and saves cap room that we weren’t sure would be available.
A possible long shot twist would be trading Rudolph that might explain why we haven’t asked him to restructure yet even though it’s probably Waynes.
For all it's supposed talent, this is an 8-7, non-playoff team, and for a team so tight up against the cap, it would seem there is room to shed some dead weight. Cousins is off-limits in that discussion (as he should be at this point), but there are other guys who could, and probably should, find themselves on the outside looking in before too long. Barr isn't going to be one of them, but guys like Rudolph, Griffen, and one of Waynes/Rhodes probably will be before too long. I wouldn't be shocked to see 3 of those 4 players gone before the draft.
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Re: Anthony Barr/Sheldon Richardson...Good riddance!!!

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:21 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:57 pm
mike2mike wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:02 pm


The structure of the contract was good, less than 50% guarenteed, spread over 5 years, a lot less than the 18M number per year thrown around, probably less up front, he took less then he was offered by the jets to stay with us.
Also, the Vikings upping their offer in the eleventh hour suggests they have some unforeseen cap windfall. There are 3 ways that this could happen. Either we had some money allocated to defense and Sheldon and Suh and others had too high of aśking price or a player who was previously unlikely to restructure that we planned on keeping was willing to take a cut and we may be finalizing something like Reif restructuring or Linval Joseph or something. The possibility of signing Suh might motivate Joseph to restructure to stick around for instance.
The third and I think most likely scenario is we have a silent bidding war between GMs and we are close to finalizing a trade that sends a player away and saves cap room that we weren’t sure would be available.
A possible long shot twist would be trading Rudolph that might explain why we haven’t asked him to restructure yet even though it’s probably Waynes.
For all it's supposed talent, this is an 8-7, non-playoff team, and for a team so tight up against the cap, it would seem there is room to shed some dead weight. Cousins is off-limits in that discussion (as he should be at this point), but there are other guys who could, and probably should, find themselves on the outside looking in before too long. Barr isn't going to be one of them, but guys like Rudolph, Griffen, and one of Waynes/Rhodes probably will be before too long. I wouldn't be shocked to see 3 of those 4 players gone before the draft.
This team didn’t lose much talent overall and will be gaining (hopefully) good draft picks. They had the talent last year to go to the playoffs but didn’t put it together as a whole. If they get back to their ways, no doubt this is a better team than 8 wins. Remember we still have one of the more talented rosters in the nfl. A team like Tennessee is an 8 win team. We have more talent than them by a long shot. We just need to play to that talent. I think you’re going to see a huge change with the offense this year given the run first approach. It’s going to keep teams on their toes. And this defense is always going to be solid as long as Zim is here
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