Why we should draft a QB

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PurpleKoolaid
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:04 pm

I'll tell you why we shouldnt draft a QB with a high round pick. Because Rick knows NOTHING about drafting, or how a QB could be coached up. Rick has shown many times he doesnt know QB talent. The whole Vikings organization knows nothing about QBs. It's our Achilles heel.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:48 am

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:04 pm
I'll tell you why we shouldnt draft a QB with a high round pick. Because Rick knows NOTHING about drafting, or how a QB could be coached up. Rick has shown many times he doesnt know QB talent. The whole Vikings organization knows nothing about QBs. It's our Achilles heel.
Yeah you’re right. He knows nothing about drafting....the team he has put together since 2015.....knows absolutely nothing!! And how a QB should be coached up? Does Spielman do the coaching? :roll: Or wait, let me guess, you had a better option in mind this past offseason at QB......I’ll wait.....



Please, please say.....Case Keenum :lol:
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:59 am

CharVike wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:25 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:51 am


I would say WR, CB and RB are not first round worthy. Maybe depth later in the draft but definitely not first round worthy
Here's the problem with that thought process. Pass on Jerry Rice because we are loaded at WR. We need help at WR. We don't have a 3rd WR that should be on an NFL roster. Diggs isn't a standout regardless of what some think. He's good but his playing time could be better. Cook is a good back who again is dinged alot. I wouldn't pass on the next Rodger Craig because of him. There's a history lesson here. We passed on Rodgers twice because we had some bum at QB who Denney thought was the greatest ever. If Dieon Sanders, CB, is there take him. We don't have one that comes close to that type of player. Which is shutdown. Plus he could score some TDs on ST.
Diggs isn’t a standout? He’s a 1,000 yard WR and has 17 tds in two years....that’s a standout. And he would have broke 1000 the last 3 years if he played all 16 games. Jarvis Landry has been a “standout” since being drafted and he’s broke 5 tds one time.

And idk how many times I have to tell you....not only is there not a Deion Sanders in this draft....idk if there is a Mac Alexander in this draft. It’s an awfully weak CB class. But for whatever reason, you keep pushing your point. There isn’t anything there. Especially in the first round. So can we get past the CB train and move to a new position? Because that ship is long gone and we are currently loaded at that spot
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:53 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:59 am
CharVike wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:25 am


Here's the problem with that thought process. Pass on Jerry Rice because we are loaded at WR. We need help at WR. We don't have a 3rd WR that should be on an NFL roster. Diggs isn't a standout regardless of what some think. He's good but his playing time could be better. Cook is a good back who again is dinged alot. I wouldn't pass on the next Rodger Craig because of him. There's a history lesson here. We passed on Rodgers twice because we had some bum at QB who Denney thought was the greatest ever. If Dieon Sanders, CB, is there take him. We don't have one that comes close to that type of player. Which is shutdown. Plus he could score some TDs on ST.
Diggs isn’t a standout? He’s a 1,000 yard WR and has 17 tds in two years....that’s a standout. And he would have broke 1000 the last 3 years if he played all 16 games. Jarvis Landry has been a “standout” since being drafted and he’s broke 5 tds one time.

And you and I will always be at odds about Case, and what he could have done here, in MN, for a second year. I would love Case on this team, as a backup for now. I dont think it would be good for the Vikes, or the fans though, if Cousins has another lame year.


And idk how many times I have to tell you....not only is there not a Deion Sanders in this draft....idk if there is a Mac Alexander in this draft. It’s an awfully weak CB class. But for whatever reason, you keep pushing your point. There isn’t anything there. Especially in the first round. So can we get past the CB train and move to a new position? Because that ship is long gone and we are currently loaded at that spot
Like Rick knew Diggs and AT would be good. If he did, and he waited till the 5th rd, and let AT go undrafted, he would be fired. Even the Wilfs would know that.

As for QB talent, the Vikes have been plagued even before Rick got here as VPOPP. I just dont understand how our scouts cant find a good QB to get coached up. Paying for a Cousins, and Bradfrod are the worst things to do, its too chancy. And Rick should have known our line wasnt good enough for Cousins to be at his best, which would in turn make Cook and Murray look good. And I bet we lose Murray this year. A late pick RB, a strong RB, would be a good idea.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by CharVike » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:47 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:59 am
CharVike wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:25 am


Here's the problem with that thought process. Pass on Jerry Rice because we are loaded at WR. We need help at WR. We don't have a 3rd WR that should be on an NFL roster. Diggs isn't a standout regardless of what some think. He's good but his playing time could be better. Cook is a good back who again is dinged alot. I wouldn't pass on the next Rodger Craig because of him. There's a history lesson here. We passed on Rodgers twice because we had some bum at QB who Denney thought was the greatest ever. If Dieon Sanders, CB, is there take him. We don't have one that comes close to that type of player. Which is shutdown. Plus he could score some TDs on ST.
Diggs isn’t a standout? He’s a 1,000 yard WR and has 17 tds in two years....that’s a standout. And he would have broke 1000 the last 3 years if he played all 16 games. Jarvis Landry has been a “standout” since being drafted and he’s broke 5 tds one time.

And idk how many times I have to tell you....not only is there not a Deion Sanders in this draft....idk if there is a Mac Alexander in this draft. It’s an awfully weak CB class. But for whatever reason, you keep pushing your point. There isn’t anything there. Especially in the first round. So can we get past the CB train and move to a new position? Because that ship is long gone and we are currently loaded at that spot
I guess standout needs to be defined. Moss was a standout and Diggs isn't at that level. I'm not saying he is a joke. He's a good player. Above average. But teams aren't shaking in their boots over him.The average fan doesn't even know he exists. Maybe you missed my point. If the BPA is a (whatever) take him regardless of position. That was my point. Bottom line is I'm not looking at one position CB as you think. But most think don't take a CB regardless of skill level because we are loaded. That's how we missed Rodgers twice. Our coach felt we were loaded at QB The team that picked him had a future HOFer at the helm which is loaded. I don't see Diggs as that but maybe you do. So if a great WR is there take him. We could use the help for some reason. And if the CB class is so weak as you state the 1st one won't be picked until round 3. I don't see that happening. MY POINT IS take the BPA regardless of position. We need help everywhere. Will that help you understand better.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by fiestavike » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:33 am

Cliff wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:05 am

However, as of last season the Vikings are no longer a "good team". Yes, it can change that quickly in the NFL. If anybody thinks that suddenly this team is going to be great with 1-2 additional offensive linemen in the draft (if we can even get year 1 starters at all ... ) I think you're wrong.

I think the window was slammed shut when we got Cousins (in hindsight). I pretty much know what everyone thinks of him and many will think I'm wrong but I think he is the winningest loser. He doesn't have what it takes to work against above average teams but will carve up any average or below team. The guy is 5-30 against teams that finish the year with a winning record. Too much history there for me to ignore no matter what other stats you might want to throw out. It will take Cousins himself to change my mind.
Cousins is a putz, but so are lots of other guys who have played well when put in the right system. I am NOT a fan of Cousins. I don't think he'll ever be better than average...and even that is a stretch in my view. But he just might LOOK a lot better than average in the right circumstance (a la Jared Goff). Kubiak has a history of making putz QBs play notably better than they typically would. A couple offensive linemen and a new scheme could produce a solid running game, a simplified passing game for a doofus like Cousins, and complimentary style of football which builds on the teams defensive strengths. That could be a recipe for contending.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by mike2mike » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:45 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:24 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:33 pm


Slick Rick has no idea what a good QB looks like. I would much prefer we wait until he is fired after the 2019 season to find our franchise guy.
I disagree regarding Spielman. The same thing has been said about him over the years for many different positions. Guys use to say he doesnt know what a good WR looks like and then he brings in Thielen and Diggs. Guys say he doesnt know what good offensive lineman look like and in the last two years he's brought in Elflein and O'Neill (granted we wish it was more than just those two but they look like they will both be long time starters for us). Guys use to say way back that he didnt know what a good CB looked like (in the Chris Cook/Asher Allen days) and then he brings in Rhodes, Waynes, Hughes, Alexander and an UDFA in Hill. Guys use to say that he didnt know how to find a viable backup QB and he brings one in that fit the system and had a better year than most backups ever dreamed of.

Now guys say he doesnt know what a good QB looks like. Sure he flopped on Jackson (if it was truly his call or not), brought in Favre (excellent move), flops on Ponder, drafts Teddy (which was excellent value at pick 32), loses Teddy for possibly his career and tries to salvage the season with Bradford (didnt work out), brings in Keenum as a backup (great move) and now signs one of the better pure passing QBs in the league. Anyone out there that was in need of a QB, makes a huge push for Kirk Cousins. Spielman built a team that free agents WANTED to come to. We use to be the team that didnt get those FAs for a period of time. Cousins was a no-brainer this past offseason. There was no better QB out there for us. Simple as that. Keenum proved he was a one year wonder, Bradford is out of the league and Teddy couldnt perform in a week 17 mop up game vs. Carolina. So guys can complain about Spielman and Cousins all they want, but all I know is, Kirk Cousins was the best possible QB we could have landed at that time and I'm all for it for the next two years.

I'm done listening to the "PHP is a Cousins lover" (not saying you're saying this, just in general). I'm not a "Cousins lover". I just know that Kirk Cousins was the best option for us at that time. I have always thought Kirk Cousins is a good QB. Not great, not bad. Good. I also believe that Kirk Cousins needs to be in the right system to succeed. A system with balance. Something he's never had in his career. I personally think Cousins could have done what Case Keenum did last year in that system. Kirk Cousins isnt an Aaron Rodgers type QB that is going to put the team on his back and win games on his own. He can do it here and there but that's not him IMO. If he throws for 220 and 2 TDs, thats a solid game. That's all we need out of him if we have balance in this offense. We dont need him throwing 45 times for 450 yards. Our defense is good enough where he doesnt need to do that anymore like he had to in Washington. Flip went into this year guns blazing and failed to run the football and put balance into this offense. Blame the OL all you want for the run game but again, NOBODY can sit here and tell me we CAN'T run the football with Dalvin Cook and Latavius Murray. I dont care who is on our OL. Sure Kirk Cousins doesnt "deserve" $84 million (which almost every fan is blinded by). But the QB market is all based on leverage. In a few years, Cousins will be well down the list when it comes to what he is making per year after guys like Mahomes, Wentz, Goff, Trubisky and Watson get their extensions. Aaron Rodgers is the highest paid QB in the NFL and he was nowhere near the playoffs. Who's to blame there? McCarthy? The defense? Nobody is complaining about his salary. I'm not comparing the two QBs because there is no comparison but Kirk Cousins did drastically outplay him both times this year. I dont know, I guess my view on Cousins is much different than others but we couldnt ride out the luxury of having a $2 million dollar QB forever. Cousins was our best option and I still stand behind him as our QB. If he flops, I'll be the first to eat crow. But right now, I stand behind him and hope this staff puts the right pieces around him from offensive line to the system in general.
I agree
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:34 pm

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:53 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:59 am


Diggs isn’t a standout? He’s a 1,000 yard WR and has 17 tds in two years....that’s a standout. And he would have broke 1000 the last 3 years if he played all 16 games. Jarvis Landry has been a “standout” since being drafted and he’s broke 5 tds one time.

And you and I will always be at odds about Case, and what he could have done here, in MN, for a second year. I would love Case on this team, as a backup for now. I dont think it would be good for the Vikes, or the fans though, if Cousins has another lame year.


And idk how many times I have to tell you....not only is there not a Deion Sanders in this draft....idk if there is a Mac Alexander in this draft. It’s an awfully weak CB class. But for whatever reason, you keep pushing your point. There isn’t anything there. Especially in the first round. So can we get past the CB train and move to a new position? Because that ship is long gone and we are currently loaded at that spot
Like Rick knew Diggs and AT would be good. If he did, and he waited till the 5th rd, and let AT go undrafted, he would be fired. Even the Wilfs would know that.

As for QB talent, the Vikes have been plagued even before Rick got here as VPOPP. I just dont understand how our scouts cant find a good QB to get coached up. Paying for a Cousins, and Bradfrod are the worst things to do, its too chancy. And Rick should have known our line wasnt good enough for Cousins to be at his best, which would in turn make Cook and Murray look good. And I bet we lose Murray this year. A late pick RB, a strong RB, would be a good idea.
This is my point with you dude. You give no credit where credit is due and rip into him about every bad move he’s ever made. Like yeah, he’s drafted busts. Every GM does. But him drafting Diggs and signing Thielen were smart moves. But now we aren’t going to even give him credit for finding good players in the middle rounds or as UDFAs? Makes sense, let’s just never give him credit for anything.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:22 pm

CharVike wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:47 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:59 am


Diggs isn’t a standout? He’s a 1,000 yard WR and has 17 tds in two years....that’s a standout. And he would have broke 1000 the last 3 years if he played all 16 games. Jarvis Landry has been a “standout” since being drafted and he’s broke 5 tds one time.

And idk how many times I have to tell you....not only is there not a Deion Sanders in this draft....idk if there is a Mac Alexander in this draft. It’s an awfully weak CB class. But for whatever reason, you keep pushing your point. There isn’t anything there. Especially in the first round. So can we get past the CB train and move to a new position? Because that ship is long gone and we are currently loaded at that spot
I guess standout needs to be defined. Moss was a standout and Diggs isn't at that level. I'm not saying he is a joke. He's a good player. Above average. But teams aren't shaking in their boots over him.The average fan doesn't even know he exists. Maybe you missed my point. If the BPA is a (whatever) take him regardless of position. That was my point. Bottom line is I'm not looking at one position CB as you think. But most think don't take a CB regardless of skill level because we are loaded. That's how we missed Rodgers twice. Our coach felt we were loaded at QB The team that picked him had a future HOFer at the helm which is loaded. I don't see Diggs as that but maybe you do. So if a great WR is there take him. We could use the help for some reason. And if the CB class is so weak as you state the 1st one won't be picked until round 3. I don't see that happening. MY POINT IS take the BPA regardless of position. We need help everywhere. Will that help you understand better.
Moss was elite. I’m thinking a standout is literally a guy that stands out and makes plays. Diggs does that. I mean yeah I get what you’re saying take BPA. I said I hope we don’t have OL blinders on and pass on a good player at a different position. However you were pretty set on needing a CB. There aren’t many out there in this draft. So I guess I don’t really see a situation where we should take a CB over another position. As for a WR, this class is pretty good. But there should be enough talent at other spots sitting at 18 where we could go instead.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:49 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:03 am
Cliff wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:55 am
I'd love to see them take a QB in round 1-3. Not with the idea of trading Cousins but rather understanding that he's only got 2 years left on his contract and if we can get a QB of at least his caliber in the draft he'll be far cheaper.
I honestly wouldnt rule out us taking a QB early given this years class. I dont know, I feel like 90% of fans are so honed in on offensive line that if Spielman drafts any other position out there in the first round, fans are calling for his head. I hope our staff and also we as fans become more open minded with this years draft. I want OL just as much as anyone but there are also many other directions we can go with that pick.
Here's an out-of-the-box pick at No. 18.

T.J. Hockenson from Iowa.

The guy is a total beast, a complete tight end who can run routes, run away from defenders, leap tacklers, catch the ball, and BLOCK like nobody's business. Given his film and how I expect him to perform at the combine, I have my doubts as to whether he'll even be available at 18. But his teammate at Iowa, Noah Fant, gets more love in the press, and Irv Smith from Alabama is also highly regarded. Hockenson is better than both, but he's only a redshirt sophomore, so maybe others will pass and he'll drop to 18.

We've seen the value of a great pass-catching tight end who can also block -- talking Gronk. He wasn't as explosive in the passing game this year, but his blocking was as good as ever.

It would also would allow us to drop Kyle Rudolph's $7.25 million salary and use the money on an O-lineman.

Just a thought.

Here's some great film on Hockenson.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:52 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:22 pm
CharVike wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:47 am


I guess standout needs to be defined. Moss was a standout and Diggs isn't at that level. I'm not saying he is a joke. He's a good player. Above average. But teams aren't shaking in their boots over him.The average fan doesn't even know he exists. Maybe you missed my point. If the BPA is a (whatever) take him regardless of position. That was my point. Bottom line is I'm not looking at one position CB as you think. But most think don't take a CB regardless of skill level because we are loaded. That's how we missed Rodgers twice. Our coach felt we were loaded at QB The team that picked him had a future HOFer at the helm which is loaded. I don't see Diggs as that but maybe you do. So if a great WR is there take him. We could use the help for some reason. And if the CB class is so weak as you state the 1st one won't be picked until round 3. I don't see that happening. MY POINT IS take the BPA regardless of position. We need help everywhere. Will that help you understand better.
Moss was elite. I’m thinking a standout is literally a guy that stands out and makes plays. Diggs does that. I mean yeah I get what you’re saying take BPA. I said I hope we don’t have OL blinders on and pass on a good player at a different position. However you were pretty set on needing a CB. There aren’t many out there in this draft. So I guess I don’t really see a situation where we should take a CB over another position. As for a WR, this class is pretty good. But there should be enough talent at other spots sitting at 18 where we could go instead.
We have enough holes where picking BPA should be easy regardless of the position.


Unless that BPA is a CB.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:01 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:52 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:22 pm


Moss was elite. I’m thinking a standout is literally a guy that stands out and makes plays. Diggs does that. I mean yeah I get what you’re saying take BPA. I said I hope we don’t have OL blinders on and pass on a good player at a different position. However you were pretty set on needing a CB. There aren’t many out there in this draft. So I guess I don’t really see a situation where we should take a CB over another position. As for a WR, this class is pretty good. But there should be enough talent at other spots sitting at 18 where we could go instead.
We have enough holes where picking BPA should be easy regardless of the position.


Unless that BPA is a CB.
I would second that but also say WR. Why draft a first round WR just to be a #3? In later rounds, yeah draft one possibly but not in the first.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:38 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:01 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:52 am


We have enough holes where picking BPA should be easy regardless of the position.


Unless that BPA is a CB.
I would second that but also say WR. Why draft a first round WR just to be a #3? In later rounds, yeah draft one possibly but not in the first.
It is a position that with the right guy, could have the biggest impact on this offense. He would have to be a #1 WR level talent, not a #3 WR level talent though. That I would prefer they wait until the later rounds for and agree with you 100% on. The 18th pick for a #3 WR talent is not good value at all.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by CharVike » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:56 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:38 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:01 am


I would second that but also say WR. Why draft a first round WR just to be a #3? In later rounds, yeah draft one possibly but not in the first.
It is a position that with the right guy, could have the biggest impact on this offense. He would have to be a #1 WR level talent, not a #3 WR level talent though. That I would prefer they wait until the later rounds for and agree with you 100% on. The 18th pick for a #3 WR talent is not good value at all.
You hit the nail on the head. I would'n shy away from any elite player regardless of position. But is there an elite player in this draft that will drop that far like Moss did? According to some there are no 1st round talent at CB and there are no 1st round talent at G so immediately scratch those two positions.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:25 pm

CharVike wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:56 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:38 am


It is a position that with the right guy, could have the biggest impact on this offense. He would have to be a #1 WR level talent, not a #3 WR level talent though. That I would prefer they wait until the later rounds for and agree with you 100% on. The 18th pick for a #3 WR talent is not good value at all.
You hit the nail on the head. I would'n shy away from any elite player regardless of position. But is there an elite player in this draft that will drop that far like Moss did? According to some there are no 1st round talent at CB and there are no 1st round talent at G so immediately scratch those two positions.
Right but there’s a difference. The tackles are loaded in this class and many can and will convert to guard. As for CB, it’s the weakest class in a long time. Do the research if you don’t believe me. For natural guards, you aren’t going to find them until the 2nd and 3rd round. But guys like Ford and Risner can be elite guards. There aren’t other positions that can become elite CBs. There are a couple that could be good, but nothing promising in this class. Analysts are saying there isn’t even a Denzel Ward in this class, who’s good but idk if he will be elite down the road
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