Why we should draft a QB

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Why we should draft a QB

Post by mike2mike » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:28 pm

I think we should draft a QB but Cousins should remain the guy. Here is my thinking.
1)Cousins will be a great mentor for a QB to sit behind and learn from for a couple years like Rodgers did with Favre.
2)Teams that NEED a QB and draft from need can’t build behind that QB until it’s too late.
3)We can’t really afford a backup QBs if he isn’t on a rookie deal right now. Sloter may be an okay backup but if something happens or he isn’t what we hope in live game action, it will be very difficult to sign another competent QBs.
4)If the QB can beat Cousins out in a couple years that’s probably a good thing and we can still maybe sign Cousins in a backup mentor role for maybe $15M a year beyond his current contract sort of like Fitzpatrick with the Jets if by then another team doesn’t see him as a multiple year starter at that point. Or perhaps we can get a decent pick for him his final year like the Chiefs did with Alex Smith and use the money for a cheaper backup.
5)If the QB can’t beat out Cousins and Cousins is still going strong, we can consider extending Cousins to be our guy with a bit more leverage and then trade the QB we draft like the Pats did with Jimmy G and like teams with good QBs have done over the years. Cousins teaching younger guys will help keep him sharp as well and keep him competative.
6)If we can’t lock up Cousins we’ll have continuity with someone in the system and practicing with the players, time to build around him and at that point we can still draft another QB if one happens to fall with the idea that if we choose not to pay the QB big money, we can showcase him for a year or two and then trade him to recoup what we get while building behind him without reaching.
7)Cousins seemed to shine in Washington when the organization suggested he might not be the guy. I don’t think we should go as far as they did, but I don’t think lighting a bit of a fire and saying we see long term value, you can never have too many great QBs and that developing a potential contingency plan is going too far.
8)With the way Cousins gets killed by our (lack of) OL, we’re lucky to have anyone hold up for 16 games. Andrew Luck got labeled “injury prone” by some for the same reason
9)Financially a QB and DE are the most expensive veteren contracts to sign making rookie contracts the most advantageous if you can find a good one even if they take awhile to get to where you want them.

Overall I’ve made a case for QB but let me pull back a little bit and say we shouldn’t reach for one and we shouldn’t definitely commit to drafting one this year no matter what... if there isn’t something close to fair value in the early few rounds we can wait but what is stupid for instance is for us to pass on Aaron Rodgers twice because we have Daunte which is what we did to draft Troy Williamson and Erasmus James. Daunte taking hits because he runs a lot and plays physically was a risk just as Cousins because he gets hit a lot because our OL sucks.
QBs can play for 10-15 years if you get the right one so I’m way more in favor given our situation of drafting one at this point. I don’t know that it is smart to always have one starting in their 2nd contracts unless you can get them for cheap or find ways of saving lots of cap elsewhere without costing you at other positions. They will redo the CBA I think after the 2020 season (or before the 2021 season) meaning I think we should prioritize drafting a QB while rookies are cheap and we have this draft and next draft to take advantage of very cheap rookie deals.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:33 pm

mike2mike wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:28 pm
I think we should draft a QB but Cousins should remain the guy. Here is my thinking.
1)Cousins will be a great mentor for a QB to sit behind and learn from for a couple years like Rodgers did with Favre.
2)Teams that NEED a QB and draft from need can’t build behind that QB until it’s too late.
3)We can’t really afford a backup QBs if he isn’t on a rookie deal right now. Sloter may be an okay backup but if something happens or he isn’t what we hope in live game action, it will be very difficult to sign another competent QBs.
4)If the QB can beat Cousins out in a couple years that’s probably a good thing and we can still maybe sign Cousins in a backup mentor role for maybe $15M a year beyond his current contract sort of like Fitzpatrick with the Jets if by then another team doesn’t see him as a multiple year starter at that point. Or perhaps we can get a decent pick for him his final year like the Chiefs did with Alex Smith and use the money for a cheaper backup.
5)If the QB can’t beat out Cousins and Cousins is still going strong, we can consider extending Cousins to be our guy with a bit more leverage and then trade the QB we draft like the Pats did with Jimmy G and like teams with good QBs have done over the years. Cousins teaching younger guys will help keep him sharp as well and keep him competative.
6)If we can’t lock up Cousins we’ll have continuity with someone in the system and practicing with the players, time to build around him and at that point we can still draft another QB if one happens to fall with the idea that if we choose not to pay the QB big money, we can showcase him for a year or two and then trade him to recoup what we get while building behind him without reaching.
7)Cousins seemed to shine in Washington when the organization suggested he might not be the guy. I don’t think we should go as far as they did, but I don’t think lighting a bit of a fire and saying we see long term value, you can never have too many great QBs and that developing a potential contingency plan is going too far.
8)With the way Cousins gets killed by our (lack of) OL, we’re lucky to have anyone hold up for 16 games. Andrew Luck got labeled “injury prone” by some for the same reason
9)Financially a QB and DE are the most expensive veteren contracts to sign making rookie contracts the most advantageous if you can find a good one even if they take awhile to get to where you want them.

Overall I’ve made a case for QB but let me pull back a little bit and say we shouldn’t reach for one and we shouldn’t definitely commit to drafting one this year no matter what... if there isn’t something close to fair value in the early few rounds we can wait but what is stupid for instance is for us to pass on Aaron Rodgers twice because we have Daunte which is what we did to draft Troy Williamson and Erasmus James. Daunte taking hits because he runs a lot and plays physically was a risk just as Cousins because he gets hit a lot because our OL sucks.
QBs can play for 10-15 years if you get the right one so I’m way more in favor given our situation of drafting one at this point. I don’t know that it is smart to always have one starting in their 2nd contracts unless you can get them for cheap or find ways of saving lots of cap elsewhere without costing you at other positions. They will redo the CBA I think after the 2020 season (or 2021?) meaning I think we should prioritize drafting a QB while rookies are cheap.
Slick Rick has no idea what a good QB looks like. I would much prefer we wait until he is fired after the 2019 season to find our franchise guy.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by Texas Vike » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:37 pm

I think we should draft a QB no higher than the 3rd round this year. Next year, I'd push that to the 1st or 2nd. In other words, we need to do this, but not NOW.

This year, I'd like Will Grier in the 4th if we can get him.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by S197 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:56 pm

While I'd like to see this, it would be a huge departure from how Spielman typically drafts. He takes 1st rounders or UDFAs with nearly nothing in between. I want to say John David Booty was his only mid round QB pick ever and that was a long time ago.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by Cliff » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:55 am

I'd love to see them take a QB in round 1-3. Not with the idea of trading Cousins but rather understanding that he's only got 2 years left on his contract and if we can get a QB of at least his caliber in the draft he'll be far cheaper.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:03 am

Cliff wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:55 am
I'd love to see them take a QB in round 1-3. Not with the idea of trading Cousins but rather understanding that he's only got 2 years left on his contract and if we can get a QB of at least his caliber in the draft he'll be far cheaper.
I honestly wouldnt rule out us taking a QB early given this years class. I dont know, I feel like 90% of fans are so honed in on offensive line that if Spielman drafts any other position out there in the first round, fans are calling for his head. I hope our staff and also we as fans become more open minded with this years draft. I want OL just as much as anyone but there are also many other directions we can go with that pick.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:24 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:33 pm
mike2mike wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:28 pm
I think we should draft a QB but Cousins should remain the guy. Here is my thinking.
1)Cousins will be a great mentor for a QB to sit behind and learn from for a couple years like Rodgers did with Favre.
2)Teams that NEED a QB and draft from need can’t build behind that QB until it’s too late.
3)We can’t really afford a backup QBs if he isn’t on a rookie deal right now. Sloter may be an okay backup but if something happens or he isn’t what we hope in live game action, it will be very difficult to sign another competent QBs.
4)If the QB can beat Cousins out in a couple years that’s probably a good thing and we can still maybe sign Cousins in a backup mentor role for maybe $15M a year beyond his current contract sort of like Fitzpatrick with the Jets if by then another team doesn’t see him as a multiple year starter at that point. Or perhaps we can get a decent pick for him his final year like the Chiefs did with Alex Smith and use the money for a cheaper backup.
5)If the QB can’t beat out Cousins and Cousins is still going strong, we can consider extending Cousins to be our guy with a bit more leverage and then trade the QB we draft like the Pats did with Jimmy G and like teams with good QBs have done over the years. Cousins teaching younger guys will help keep him sharp as well and keep him competative.
6)If we can’t lock up Cousins we’ll have continuity with someone in the system and practicing with the players, time to build around him and at that point we can still draft another QB if one happens to fall with the idea that if we choose not to pay the QB big money, we can showcase him for a year or two and then trade him to recoup what we get while building behind him without reaching.
7)Cousins seemed to shine in Washington when the organization suggested he might not be the guy. I don’t think we should go as far as they did, but I don’t think lighting a bit of a fire and saying we see long term value, you can never have too many great QBs and that developing a potential contingency plan is going too far.
8)With the way Cousins gets killed by our (lack of) OL, we’re lucky to have anyone hold up for 16 games. Andrew Luck got labeled “injury prone” by some for the same reason
9)Financially a QB and DE are the most expensive veteren contracts to sign making rookie contracts the most advantageous if you can find a good one even if they take awhile to get to where you want them.

Overall I’ve made a case for QB but let me pull back a little bit and say we shouldn’t reach for one and we shouldn’t definitely commit to drafting one this year no matter what... if there isn’t something close to fair value in the early few rounds we can wait but what is stupid for instance is for us to pass on Aaron Rodgers twice because we have Daunte which is what we did to draft Troy Williamson and Erasmus James. Daunte taking hits because he runs a lot and plays physically was a risk just as Cousins because he gets hit a lot because our OL sucks.
QBs can play for 10-15 years if you get the right one so I’m way more in favor given our situation of drafting one at this point. I don’t know that it is smart to always have one starting in their 2nd contracts unless you can get them for cheap or find ways of saving lots of cap elsewhere without costing you at other positions. They will redo the CBA I think after the 2020 season (or 2021?) meaning I think we should prioritize drafting a QB while rookies are cheap.
Slick Rick has no idea what a good QB looks like. I would much prefer we wait until he is fired after the 2019 season to find our franchise guy.
I disagree regarding Spielman. The same thing has been said about him over the years for many different positions. Guys use to say he doesnt know what a good WR looks like and then he brings in Thielen and Diggs. Guys say he doesnt know what good offensive lineman look like and in the last two years he's brought in Elflein and O'Neill (granted we wish it was more than just those two but they look like they will both be long time starters for us). Guys use to say way back that he didnt know what a good CB looked like (in the Chris Cook/Asher Allen days) and then he brings in Rhodes, Waynes, Hughes, Alexander and an UDFA in Hill. Guys use to say that he didnt know how to find a viable backup QB and he brings one in that fit the system and had a better year than most backups ever dreamed of.

Now guys say he doesnt know what a good QB looks like. Sure he flopped on Jackson (if it was truly his call or not), brought in Favre (excellent move), flops on Ponder, drafts Teddy (which was excellent value at pick 32), loses Teddy for possibly his career and tries to salvage the season with Bradford (didnt work out), brings in Keenum as a backup (great move) and now signs one of the better pure passing QBs in the league. Anyone out there that was in need of a QB, makes a huge push for Kirk Cousins. Spielman built a team that free agents WANTED to come to. We use to be the team that didnt get those FAs for a period of time. Cousins was a no-brainer this past offseason. There was no better QB out there for us. Simple as that. Keenum proved he was a one year wonder, Bradford is out of the league and Teddy couldnt perform in a week 17 mop up game vs. Carolina. So guys can complain about Spielman and Cousins all they want, but all I know is, Kirk Cousins was the best possible QB we could have landed at that time and I'm all for it for the next two years.

I'm done listening to the "PHP is a Cousins lover" (not saying you're saying this, just in general). I'm not a "Cousins lover". I just know that Kirk Cousins was the best option for us at that time. I have always thought Kirk Cousins is a good QB. Not great, not bad. Good. I also believe that Kirk Cousins needs to be in the right system to succeed. A system with balance. Something he's never had in his career. I personally think Cousins could have done what Case Keenum did last year in that system. Kirk Cousins isnt an Aaron Rodgers type QB that is going to put the team on his back and win games on his own. He can do it here and there but that's not him IMO. If he throws for 220 and 2 TDs, thats a solid game. That's all we need out of him if we have balance in this offense. We dont need him throwing 45 times for 450 yards. Our defense is good enough where he doesnt need to do that anymore like he had to in Washington. Flip went into this year guns blazing and failed to run the football and put balance into this offense. Blame the OL all you want for the run game but again, NOBODY can sit here and tell me we CAN'T run the football with Dalvin Cook and Latavius Murray. I dont care who is on our OL. Sure Kirk Cousins doesnt "deserve" $84 million (which almost every fan is blinded by). But the QB market is all based on leverage. In a few years, Cousins will be well down the list when it comes to what he is making per year after guys like Mahomes, Wentz, Goff, Trubisky and Watson get their extensions. Aaron Rodgers is the highest paid QB in the NFL and he was nowhere near the playoffs. Who's to blame there? McCarthy? The defense? Nobody is complaining about his salary. I'm not comparing the two QBs because there is no comparison but Kirk Cousins did drastically outplay him both times this year. I dont know, I guess my view on Cousins is much different than others but we couldnt ride out the luxury of having a $2 million dollar QB forever. Cousins was our best option and I still stand behind him as our QB. If he flops, I'll be the first to eat crow. But right now, I stand behind him and hope this staff puts the right pieces around him from offensive line to the system in general.
Last edited by Pondering Her Percy on Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by CharVike » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:43 am

We need help across the board so any position could be justified. A stud DE would be great and I can go on and on. Pick the BPA and be done with it.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:51 am

CharVike wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:43 am
We need help across the board so any position could be justified. A stud DE would be great and I can go on and on. Pick the BPA and be done with it.
I would say WR, CB and RB are not first round worthy. Maybe depth later in the draft but definitely not first round worthy
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by CharVike » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:53 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:24 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:33 pm


Slick Rick has no idea what a good QB looks like. I would much prefer we wait until he is fired after the 2019 season to find our franchise guy.
I disagree regarding Spielman. The same thing has been said about him over the years for many different positions. Guys use to say he doesnt know what a good WR looks like and then he brings in Thielen and Diggs. Guys say he doesnt know what good offensive lineman look like and in the last two years he's brought in Elflein and O'Neill (granted we wish it was more than just those two but they look like they will both be long time starters for us). Guys use to say way back that he didnt know what a good CB looked like (in the Chris Cook/Asher Allen days) and then he brings in Rhodes, Waynes, Hughes, Alexander and an UDFA in Hill. Guys use to say that he didnt know how to find a viable backup QB and he brings one in that fit the system and had a better year than most backups ever dreamed of.

Now guys say he doesnt know what a good QB looks like. Sure he flopped on Jackson (if it was truly his call or not), brought in Favre (excellent move), flops on Ponder, drafts Teddy (which was excellent value at pick 32), loses Teddy for possibly his career and tries to salvage the season with Bradford (didnt work out), brings in Keenum as a backup (great move) and now signs one of the better pure passing QBs in the league. Anyone out there that was in need of a QB, makes a huge push for Kirk Cousins. Spielman built a team that free agents WANTED to come to. We use to be the team that didnt get those FAs for a period of time. Cousins was a no-brainer this past offseason. There was no better QB out there for us. Simple as that. Keenum proved he was a one year wonder, Bradford is out of the league and Teddy couldnt perform in a week 17 mop up game vs. Carolina. So guys can complain about Spielman and Cousins all they want, but all I know is, Kirk Cousins was the best possible QB we could have landed at that time and I'm all for it for the next two years.

I'm done listening to the "PHP is a Cousins lover" (not saying you're saying this, just in general). I'm not a "Cousins lover". I just know that Kirk Cousins was the best option for us at that time. I have always thought Kirk Cousins is a good QB. Not great, not bad. Good. I also believe that Kirk Cousins needs to be in the right system to succeed. A system with balance. Something he's never had in his career. I personally think Cousins could have done what Case Keenum did last year in that system. Kirk Cousins isnt an Aaron Rodgers type QB that is going to put the team on his back and win games on his own. He can do it here and there but that's not him IMO. If he throws for 220 and 2 TDs, thats a solid game. That's all we need out of him if we have balance in this offense. We dont need him throwing 45 times for 450 yards. Our defense is good enough where he doesnt need to do that anymore like he had to in Washington. Flip went into this year guns blazing and failed to run the football and put balance into this offense. Sure Kirk Cousins doesnt "deserve" $84 million (which almost every fan is blinded by). But the QB market is all based on leverage. In a few years, Cousins will be well down the list when it comes to what he is making per year after guys like Mahomes, Wentz, Goff, Trubisky and Watson get their extensions. Aaron Rodgers is the highest paid QB in the NFL and he was nowhere near the playoffs. Who's to blame there? McCarthy? The defense? Nobody is complaining about his salary. I'm not comparing the two QBs because there is no comparison but Kirk Cousins did drastically outplay him both times this year. I dont know, I guess my view on Cousins is much different than other but we couldnt ride out the luxury of have a $2 million dollar QB forever. Cousins was our best option and I still stand behind him as our QB. If he flops, I'll be the first to eat crow. But right now, I stand behind him and hope this staff puts the right pieces around him from offensive line to the system.
Cousins was a great pickup. Many teams wanted him. Most on this board wanted Case back. He's not even a starter quality player but 16 million fits. As many predicted before the season we aren't a playoff quality team right now. We have holes across the board. Any position could be justified. People thinking we pick a G and bingo we become favorites are dreaming.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by Cliff » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:05 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:03 am
Cliff wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:55 am
I'd love to see them take a QB in round 1-3. Not with the idea of trading Cousins but rather understanding that he's only got 2 years left on his contract and if we can get a QB of at least his caliber in the draft he'll be far cheaper.
I honestly wouldnt rule out us taking a QB early given this years class. I dont know, I feel like 90% of fans are so honed in on offensive line that if Spielman drafts any other position out there in the first round, fans are calling for his head. I hope our staff and also we as fans become more open minded with this years draft. I want OL just as much as anyone but there are also many other directions we can go with that pick.
I think a QB early would show that they're finally looking big picture and not trying to "win now". If 2017 was the window they were trying to prop open - that clearly didn't work for a lot of reasons. I don't see it though. Zimmer is in a prove it season. He's going to want players he thinks can help the team "win now".

However, as of last season the Vikings are no longer a "good team". Yes, it can change that quickly in the NFL. If anybody thinks that suddenly this team is going to be great with 1-2 additional offensive linemen in the draft (if we can even get year 1 starters at all ... ) I think you're wrong.

I think the window was slammed shut when we got Cousins (in hindsight). I pretty much know what everyone thinks of him and many will think I'm wrong but I think he is the winningest loser. He doesn't have what it takes to work against above average teams but will carve up any average or below team. The guy is 5-30 against teams that finish the year with a winning record. Too much history there for me to ignore no matter what other stats you might want to throw out. It will take Cousins himself to change my mind.

Regardless of what I think of Cousins. Even if I thought he was better than that I'd still want them to grab a QB earlier. The fact is if he can keep his stats up he may well be a free agent and even more expense in 2 years. It'd be great to not have to use so much cap for someone that is at his best still not "elite".

Despite all of that I'm still in Cousin's corner as long as he's a Vikings. I created the banner with him in it at the top of the site and removing him and adding someone else would be super easy :)

I want him to be a winner ...
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:02 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:24 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:33 pm


Slick Rick has no idea what a good QB looks like. I would much prefer we wait until he is fired after the 2019 season to find our franchise guy.
I disagree regarding Spielman. The same thing has been said about him over the years for many different positions. Guys use to say he doesnt know what a good WR looks like and then he brings in Thielen and Diggs. Guys say he doesnt know what good offensive lineman look like and in the last two years he's brought in Elflein and O'Neill (granted we wish it was more than just those two but they look like they will both be long time starters for us). Guys use to say way back that he didnt know what a good CB looked like (in the Chris Cook/Asher Allen days) and then he brings in Rhodes, Waynes, Hughes, Alexander and an UDFA in Hill. Guys use to say that he didnt know how to find a viable backup QB and he brings one in that fit the system and had a better year than most backups ever dreamed of.

Now guys say he doesnt know what a good QB looks like. Sure he flopped on Jackson (if it was truly his call or not), brought in Favre (excellent move), flops on Ponder, drafts Teddy (which was excellent value at pick 32), loses Teddy for possibly his career and tries to salvage the season with Bradford (didnt work out), brings in Keenum as a backup (great move) and now signs one of the better pure passing QBs in the league. Anyone out there that was in need of a QB, makes a huge push for Kirk Cousins. Spielman built a team that free agents WANTED to come to. We use to be the team that didnt get those FAs for a period of time. Cousins was a no-brainer this past offseason. There was no better QB out there for us. Simple as that. Keenum proved he was a one year wonder, Bradford is out of the league and Teddy couldnt perform in a week 17 mop up game vs. Carolina. So guys can complain about Spielman and Cousins all they want, but all I know is, Kirk Cousins was the best possible QB we could have landed at that time and I'm all for it for the next two years.

I'm done listening to the "PHP is a Cousins lover" (not saying you're saying this, just in general). I'm not a "Cousins lover". I just know that Kirk Cousins was the best option for us at that time. I have always thought Kirk Cousins is a good QB. Not great, not bad. Good. I also believe that Kirk Cousins needs to be in the right system to succeed. A system with balance. Something he's never had in his career. I personally think Cousins could have done what Case Keenum did last year in that system. Kirk Cousins isnt an Aaron Rodgers type QB that is going to put the team on his back and win games on his own. He can do it here and there but that's not him IMO. If he throws for 220 and 2 TDs, thats a solid game. That's all we need out of him if we have balance in this offense. We dont need him throwing 45 times for 450 yards. Our defense is good enough where he doesnt need to do that anymore like he had to in Washington. Flip went into this year guns blazing and failed to run the football and put balance into this offense. Blame the OL all you want for the run game but again, NOBODY can sit here and tell me we CAN'T run the football with Dalvin Cook and Latavius Murray. I dont care who is on our OL. Sure Kirk Cousins doesnt "deserve" $84 million (which almost every fan is blinded by). But the QB market is all based on leverage. In a few years, Cousins will be well down the list when it comes to what he is making per year after guys like Mahomes, Wentz, Goff, Trubisky and Watson get their extensions. Aaron Rodgers is the highest paid QB in the NFL and he was nowhere near the playoffs. Who's to blame there? McCarthy? The defense? Nobody is complaining about his salary. I'm not comparing the two QBs because there is no comparison but Kirk Cousins did drastically outplay him both times this year. I dont know, I guess my view on Cousins is much different than others but we couldnt ride out the luxury of having a $2 million dollar QB forever. Cousins was our best option and I still stand behind him as our QB. If he flops, I'll be the first to eat crow. But right now, I stand behind him and hope this staff puts the right pieces around him from offensive line to the system in general.
You forgot Cassel and Mcnabb.

He had this reputation at picking QBs coming from his Miami days when he passed on Brees twice "because he didn't think he was that much of an upgrade over Jay Fiedler", then traded a second to the Eagles for AJ Feeley. Somehow that trade is not the worst trade to the Eagles for a QB he has made in his career.

I will not give Rick credit for Teddy no matter what happens from now on in his career. The minute he let him walk in FAs, Teddy became a bust of a draft pick. Keenum was a great find as a backup QB, no doubt, but who knows if another backup couldn't have done better that year? And again, it was a backup. Cousins is unmitigated disaster of a signing. It does not matter if he was the best of the bunch in FAs, Rick paid him to be a franchise guy who can win his team a SB and "put his team on his back", and he isn't that. We are now stuck with his contract and little hope of improving enough to even compete to get to the SB, let alone win one.
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:54 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:02 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:24 am


I disagree regarding Spielman. The same thing has been said about him over the years for many different positions. Guys use to say he doesnt know what a good WR looks like and then he brings in Thielen and Diggs. Guys say he doesnt know what good offensive lineman look like and in the last two years he's brought in Elflein and O'Neill (granted we wish it was more than just those two but they look like they will both be long time starters for us). Guys use to say way back that he didnt know what a good CB looked like (in the Chris Cook/Asher Allen days) and then he brings in Rhodes, Waynes, Hughes, Alexander and an UDFA in Hill. Guys use to say that he didnt know how to find a viable backup QB and he brings one in that fit the system and had a better year than most backups ever dreamed of.

Now guys say he doesnt know what a good QB looks like. Sure he flopped on Jackson (if it was truly his call or not), brought in Favre (excellent move), flops on Ponder, drafts Teddy (which was excellent value at pick 32), loses Teddy for possibly his career and tries to salvage the season with Bradford (didnt work out), brings in Keenum as a backup (great move) and now signs one of the better pure passing QBs in the league. Anyone out there that was in need of a QB, makes a huge push for Kirk Cousins. Spielman built a team that free agents WANTED to come to. We use to be the team that didnt get those FAs for a period of time. Cousins was a no-brainer this past offseason. There was no better QB out there for us. Simple as that. Keenum proved he was a one year wonder, Bradford is out of the league and Teddy couldnt perform in a week 17 mop up game vs. Carolina. So guys can complain about Spielman and Cousins all they want, but all I know is, Kirk Cousins was the best possible QB we could have landed at that time and I'm all for it for the next two years.

I'm done listening to the "PHP is a Cousins lover" (not saying you're saying this, just in general). I'm not a "Cousins lover". I just know that Kirk Cousins was the best option for us at that time. I have always thought Kirk Cousins is a good QB. Not great, not bad. Good. I also believe that Kirk Cousins needs to be in the right system to succeed. A system with balance. Something he's never had in his career. I personally think Cousins could have done what Case Keenum did last year in that system. Kirk Cousins isnt an Aaron Rodgers type QB that is going to put the team on his back and win games on his own. He can do it here and there but that's not him IMO. If he throws for 220 and 2 TDs, thats a solid game. That's all we need out of him if we have balance in this offense. We dont need him throwing 45 times for 450 yards. Our defense is good enough where he doesnt need to do that anymore like he had to in Washington. Flip went into this year guns blazing and failed to run the football and put balance into this offense. Blame the OL all you want for the run game but again, NOBODY can sit here and tell me we CAN'T run the football with Dalvin Cook and Latavius Murray. I dont care who is on our OL. Sure Kirk Cousins doesnt "deserve" $84 million (which almost every fan is blinded by). But the QB market is all based on leverage. In a few years, Cousins will be well down the list when it comes to what he is making per year after guys like Mahomes, Wentz, Goff, Trubisky and Watson get their extensions. Aaron Rodgers is the highest paid QB in the NFL and he was nowhere near the playoffs. Who's to blame there? McCarthy? The defense? Nobody is complaining about his salary. I'm not comparing the two QBs because there is no comparison but Kirk Cousins did drastically outplay him both times this year. I dont know, I guess my view on Cousins is much different than others but we couldnt ride out the luxury of having a $2 million dollar QB forever. Cousins was our best option and I still stand behind him as our QB. If he flops, I'll be the first to eat crow. But right now, I stand behind him and hope this staff puts the right pieces around him from offensive line to the system in general.
You forgot Cassel and Mcnabb.

He had this reputation at picking QBs coming from his Miami days when he passed on Brees twice "because he didn't think he was that much of an upgrade over Jay Fiedler", then traded a second to the Eagles for AJ Feeley. Somehow that trade is not the worst trade to the Eagles for a QB he has made in his career.

I will not give Rick credit for Teddy no matter what happens from now on in his career. The minute he let him walk in FAs, Teddy became a bust of a draft pick. Keenum was a great find as a backup QB, no doubt, but who knows if another backup couldn't have done better that year? And again, it was a backup. Cousins is unmitigated disaster of a signing. It does not matter if he was the best of the bunch in FAs, Rick paid him to be a franchise guy who can win his team a SB and "put his team on his back", and he isn't that. We are now stuck with his contract and little hope of improving enough to even compete to get to the SB, let alone win one.
Bottom line is, you, Rick, Zim or anyone out there had no better option this past offseason than to go with Kirk Cousins. I dont know how you can say he's a disaster after 1 year with a new team. That's like calling a draft pick a bust after 1 season. What says Rick signed him to "put the team on his back"? Just because he paid him that amount of money that everyone is blinded by? So are you telling me Spielman could walk up to Cousins and say "Hey, here's 3 years, $50 million" and Kirk would take it??? Not a chance. Because the QB market is based on LEVERAGE. Any single team out there that had enough cap space to warrant it and didnt have a starting QB, would have been in a war for Cousins. Anyone that has had success as a passer in this league usually ends up with a big money contract. Especially when you did it for 3 years straight in Washington. If Matt Stafford hits the market at age 29, teams arent going to be throwing him insane money?? And what has Matt Stafford done in his career?? About as much as Kirk Cousins. But they are still prolific passers and will still make huge money on the open market no matter what. It's not like Spielman was like, "I'm going to offer Kirk more than anyone out there just so he picks Minnesota". He was getting that AND MORE no matter where he went. Just like Matt Stafford, or Matt Ryan or anyone else would get at that age and skill level. Point is, it's not like Spielman overpaid and we could have gotten him cheaper. We actually got him cheaper than other teams would have. That doesnt mean he was signed to "put the team on his back". We had the #1 defense in the NFL last year, he shouldnt have to put the team on his back. Chicago had the #1 defense in the NFL this year....did Trubisky have to put the team on his back? Did Case last year? No. Everything dipped this year for whatever reason. We need to get back to our old ways and the reason for that dip definitely wasnt Kirk Cousins. It was a mixture of many different things
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StumpHunter
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:29 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:54 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:02 pm


You forgot Cassel and Mcnabb.

He had this reputation at picking QBs coming from his Miami days when he passed on Brees twice "because he didn't think he was that much of an upgrade over Jay Fiedler", then traded a second to the Eagles for AJ Feeley. Somehow that trade is not the worst trade to the Eagles for a QB he has made in his career.

I will not give Rick credit for Teddy no matter what happens from now on in his career. The minute he let him walk in FAs, Teddy became a bust of a draft pick. Keenum was a great find as a backup QB, no doubt, but who knows if another backup couldn't have done better that year? And again, it was a backup. Cousins is unmitigated disaster of a signing. It does not matter if he was the best of the bunch in FAs, Rick paid him to be a franchise guy who can win his team a SB and "put his team on his back", and he isn't that. We are now stuck with his contract and little hope of improving enough to even compete to get to the SB, let alone win one.
Bottom line is, you, Rick, Zim or anyone out there had no better option this past offseason than to go with Kirk Cousins. I dont know how you can say he's a disaster after 1 year with a new team. That's like calling a draft pick a bust after 1 season. What says Rick signed him to "put the team on his back"? Just because he paid him that amount of money that everyone is blinded by? So are you telling me Spielman could walk up to Cousins and say "Hey, here's 3 years, $50 million" and Kirk would take it??? Not a chance. Because the QB market is based on LEVERAGE. Any single team out there that had enough cap space to warrant it and didnt have a starting QB, would have been in a war for Cousins. Anyone that has had success as a passer in this league usually ends up with a big money contract. Especially when you did it for 3 years straight in Washington. If Matt Stafford hits the market at age 29, teams arent going to be throwing him insane money?? And what has Matt Stafford done in his career?? About as much as Kirk Cousins. But they are still prolific passers and will still make huge money on the open market no matter what. It's not like Spielman was like, "I'm going to offer Kirk more than anyone out there just so he picks Minnesota". He was getting that AND MORE no matter where he went. Just like Matt Stafford, or Matt Ryan or anyone else would get at that age and skill level. Point is, it's not like Spielman overpaid and we could have gotten him cheaper. We actually got him cheaper than other teams would have. That doesnt mean he was signed to "put the team on his back". We had the #1 defense in the NFL last year, he shouldnt have to put the team on his back. Chicago had the #1 defense in the NFL this year....did Trubisky have to put the team on his back? Did Case last year? No. Everything dipped this year for whatever reason. We need to get back to our old ways and the reason for that dip definitely wasnt Kirk Cousins. It was a mixture of many different things
Here is the thing, GMs wanted Cousins not to win SBs, but to win enough games to keep their jobs. I have yet to see any upside from the signing and plenty of downside, including, but not limited to, losing key players to FAs and having it made immensely more difficult to sign FAs to make the team better.

Being one and done in the playoffs like the Bears were is not what I want. Perpetually hovering around .500 like the Lions have with Stafford is not what I want. I want a franchise QB who is consistently good enough against playoff teams, that I could at least have hope that my favorite team could win it all.

Cousins is not the only problem on this Vikings team, but his ability to completely crap the bed against good teams certainly is part of the reason we finished with only 8 wins and missed the playoffs. He was not brought in to not be THE problem. He was brought in to be THE solution. He isn’t close to being that.

You can’t seem to get past the fact that the three former Vikings QBs did not have success starting last season. I hate to tell you this, but getting the best of a bad lot(assuming Teddy is indeed done) does not mean you were successful. Especially when the best of a bad lot costs so much.
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CharVike
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Re: Why we should draft a QB

Post by CharVike » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:25 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:51 am
CharVike wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:43 am
We need help across the board so any position could be justified. A stud DE would be great and I can go on and on. Pick the BPA and be done with it.
I would say WR, CB and RB are not first round worthy. Maybe depth later in the draft but definitely not first round worthy
Here's the problem with that thought process. Pass on Jerry Rice because we are loaded at WR. We need help at WR. We don't have a 3rd WR that should be on an NFL roster. Diggs isn't a standout regardless of what some think. He's good but his playing time could be better. Cook is a good back who again is dinged alot. I wouldn't pass on the next Rodger Craig because of him. There's a history lesson here. We passed on Rodgers twice because we had some bum at QB who Denney thought was the greatest ever. If Dieon Sanders, CB, is there take him. We don't have one that comes close to that type of player. Which is shutdown. Plus he could score some TDs on ST.
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