Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by CharVike » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:11 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:09 pm
CharVike wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:52 pm

IMO QB is much more important than a RB. We had one of the best ever and we didn't make the show. Give me one of the best QBs ever and we will make the show. As for Shurmur not drafting a top QB last year I thought was a mistake. It will take a QB a few seasons just to get up to speed. A RB can step right in. To me RBs are plug and play guys. Some mocks have the Giants taking the QB from Ohio ST this year. Good luck with that one. I think there were better options last year but he did get a RB with a top 5 pick I think.
Outside of mayfield, Allen, Rosen and Darnold have been far from anything great. So did they really lose out on that much? Sure doesn’t look like it.

So they can land a top QB this year and drafted Barkley last year

OR

Draft a guy like Rosen, Darnold or Allen last year and draft random RB this year (this class is extremely weak).

It’s a no brainer. The QBs last year vs this year talent wise are very similar. There isn’t a RB that could hold Barkley’s jock strap in this draft. They get way better value the way they are doing it. And Shurmur has made great moves along the way. Like I said, he’s doing it the right way
If a QB blows year one it was a bad pick. OK I get it. Time will tell with Shurmur. IMO a RB won't carry his team to the show. I can't think of a RB Brady has ever had that was in Barkley's league. And I know there is only one Brady. With this years draft similar to last year QB wise I guess many will go off the board early since non have panned out yet. If that's the case the Giants won't get one at their pick this year either. Oh well they have a great RB. I've seen this story before.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:14 pm

CharVike wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:11 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:09 pm


Outside of mayfield, Allen, Rosen and Darnold have been far from anything great. So did they really lose out on that much? Sure doesn’t look like it.

So they can land a top QB this year and drafted Barkley last year

OR

Draft a guy like Rosen, Darnold or Allen last year and draft random RB this year (this class is extremely weak).

It’s a no brainer. The QBs last year vs this year talent wise are very similar. There isn’t a RB that could hold Barkley’s jock strap in this draft. They get way better value the way they are doing it. And Shurmur has made great moves along the way. Like I said, he’s doing it the right way
If a QB blows year one it was a bad pick. OK I get it. Time will tell with Shurmur. IMO a RB won't carry his team to the show. I can't think of a RB Brady has ever had that was in Barkley's league. And I know there is only one Brady. With this years draft similar to last year QB wise I guess many will go off the board early since non have panned out yet. If that's the case the Giants won't get one at their pick this year either. Oh well they have a great RB. I've seen this story before.
How would they not? They pick 6th dude. Pretty sure they will easily land a QB there if they want one. And yeah, using Brady is a bad example. Either way, yeah time will tell, but clearly he's doing the right things right now. Zeitler, Hernandez, Barkley, Solder is a great step forward
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by CharVike » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:53 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:14 pm
CharVike wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:11 am


If a QB blows year one it was a bad pick. OK I get it. Time will tell with Shurmur. IMO a RB won't carry his team to the show. I can't think of a RB Brady has ever had that was in Barkley's league. And I know there is only one Brady. With this years draft similar to last year QB wise I guess many will go off the board early since non have panned out yet. If that's the case the Giants won't get one at their pick this year either. Oh well they have a great RB. I've seen this story before.
How would they not? They pick 6th dude. Pretty sure they will easily land a QB there if they want one. And yeah, using Brady is a bad example. Either way, yeah time will tell, but clearly he's doing the right things right now. Zeitler, Hernandez, Barkley, Solder is a great step forward
Yes getting those guys is fine. And many mocks have them picking the guy from Ohio St for the QB of the future. If that guy was such a great prospect he would fly off the board right off the bat like they usually do. Of course Rodgers fell with us skipping twice. So anything can happen and great players do fall. I just hope when we pick and if that QB Drew L is still there he better be the pick. Matter of fact the more I read about this draft the more it seems like it's not very deep at all. It seems to lack great prospects across the board. Even this OL Ford I have seen mocks of him being picked in the 20s. I don't think there's a true number 1 selection. That's not typically the case. But Shurmur gets to much credit for things that bounced his way was with us. Yes he won a playoff game.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:00 am

CharVike wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:53 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:14 pm


How would they not? They pick 6th dude. Pretty sure they will easily land a QB there if they want one. And yeah, using Brady is a bad example. Either way, yeah time will tell, but clearly he's doing the right things right now. Zeitler, Hernandez, Barkley, Solder is a great step forward
Yes getting those guys is fine. And many mocks have them picking the guy from Ohio St for the QB of the future. If that guy was such a great prospect he would fly off the board right off the bat like they usually do. Of course Rodgers fell with us skipping twice. So anything can happen and great players do fall. I just hope when we pick and if that QB Drew L is still there he better be the pick. Matter of fact the more I read about this draft the more it seems like it's not very deep at all. It seems to lack great prospects across the board. Even this OL Ford I have seen mocks of him being picked in the 20s. I don't think there's a true number 1 selection. That's not typically the case. But Shurmur gets to much credit for things that bounced his way was with us. Yes he won a playoff game.
The key was, Shurmur had balance in this offense unlike Flip. Which made a huge difference and he made that offense better than it should have been. He played to his QBs strengths. Something flip also didn’t do. Don’t be surprised if the giants take a QB at 6 and Metcalf at 17. Just because they are mocking the giants taking Haskins doesn’t mean that’s what’s going to happen. If they take Lock (big arm) and metcalf (deep threat)....that’s scary. His defense would still be a worry though. Either way, he built his OL the right way. Has a stud RB and TE. If I was a giants fan, I’d love everything he’s doing right now
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:16 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:00 am
CharVike wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:53 am

Yes getting those guys is fine. And many mocks have them picking the guy from Ohio St for the QB of the future. If that guy was such a great prospect he would fly off the board right off the bat like they usually do. Of course Rodgers fell with us skipping twice. So anything can happen and great players do fall. I just hope when we pick and if that QB Drew L is still there he better be the pick. Matter of fact the more I read about this draft the more it seems like it's not very deep at all. It seems to lack great prospects across the board. Even this OL Ford I have seen mocks of him being picked in the 20s. I don't think there's a true number 1 selection. That's not typically the case. But Shurmur gets to much credit for things that bounced his way was with us. Yes he won a playoff game.
The key was, Shurmur had balance in this offense unlike Flip. Which made a huge difference and he made that offense better than it should have been. He played to his QBs strengths. Something flip also didn’t do. Don’t be surprised if the giants take a QB at 6 and Metcalf at 17. Just because they are mocking the giants taking Haskins doesn’t mean that’s what’s going to happen. If they take Lock (big arm) and metcalf (deep threat)....that’s scary. His defense would still be a worry though. Either way, he built his OL the right way. Has a stud RB and TE. If I was a giants fan, I’d love everything he’s doing right now
I think Flip did a great job of playing to Cousins strengths. He was just really bad at hiding Cousins weaknesses. Running the football more should help with that.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:10 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:16 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:00 am


The key was, Shurmur had balance in this offense unlike Flip. Which made a huge difference and he made that offense better than it should have been. He played to his QBs strengths. Something flip also didn’t do. Don’t be surprised if the giants take a QB at 6 and Metcalf at 17. Just because they are mocking the giants taking Haskins doesn’t mean that’s what’s going to happen. If they take Lock (big arm) and metcalf (deep threat)....that’s scary. His defense would still be a worry though. Either way, he built his OL the right way. Has a stud RB and TE. If I was a giants fan, I’d love everything he’s doing right now
I think Flip did a great job of playing to Cousins strengths. He was just really bad at hiding Cousins weaknesses. Running the football more should help with that.
I mean throwing the ball 45 times a game was unnecessary if you ask me.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by CharVike » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:24 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:00 am
CharVike wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:53 am

Yes getting those guys is fine. And many mocks have them picking the guy from Ohio St for the QB of the future. If that guy was such a great prospect he would fly off the board right off the bat like they usually do. Of course Rodgers fell with us skipping twice. So anything can happen and great players do fall. I just hope when we pick and if that QB Drew L is still there he better be the pick. Matter of fact the more I read about this draft the more it seems like it's not very deep at all. It seems to lack great prospects across the board. Even this OL Ford I have seen mocks of him being picked in the 20s. I don't think there's a true number 1 selection. That's not typically the case. But Shurmur gets to much credit for things that bounced his way was with us. Yes he won a playoff game.
The key was, Shurmur had balance in this offense unlike Flip. Which made a huge difference and he made that offense better than it should have been. He played to his QBs strengths. Something flip also didn’t do. Don’t be surprised if the giants take a QB at 6 and Metcalf at 17. Just because they are mocking the giants taking Haskins doesn’t mean that’s what’s going to happen. If they take Lock (big arm) and metcalf (deep threat)....that’s scary. His defense would still be a worry though. Either way, he built his OL the right way. Has a stud RB and TE. If I was a giants fan, I’d love everything he’s doing right now
Here is CBS mock for the Giants. They have the Ohio St QB picked earlier via trade. This is only their take.

Jonah Williams, OT, Alabama. The protection on the offensive line was nothing but a rumor for much of 2018, and if the team is going to put themselves in the best position to succeed, addressing those issues should be priority No. 1. Williams doesn't have the arm length many teams crave, but he makes up for it with his technique. The best part is he doesn't have to come in as a blindside blocker with the Giants, as he can adjust to the NFL at right tackle before an eventual move to the left side in 2020 if Nate Solder doesn't live up to his contract.

That's why when your in position to take a QB you pick him. Not a RB. I also get the feeling OL will fly off the board. Many felt Hernandez is/was a stud well he struggled also.

Here's our pick from them.

Jawaan Taylor, OT, Florida. Taylor could rocket up boards if he tests well over the next few months, but at bare minimum I expect him to go in the middle of the first round with the crushing need for offensive line around the league. He could develop at tackle or move inside to guard but, surprise, the Vikings need upgrades in both spots. I'd give him a shot at right tackle to start and see how his athleticism translates.

Bottom kine is the NFL is lacking OL players. Maybe we get lucky and an edge rusher drops to us. Either way this entire 2019 draft class appears to be weak to me. Nothing jumps out as boom this is the number one guy like when Luck came out for example.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by CharVike » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:53 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:00 am
CharVike wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:53 am

Yes getting those guys is fine. And many mocks have them picking the guy from Ohio St for the QB of the future. If that guy was such a great prospect he would fly off the board right off the bat like they usually do. Of course Rodgers fell with us skipping twice. So anything can happen and great players do fall. I just hope when we pick and if that QB Drew L is still there he better be the pick. Matter of fact the more I read about this draft the more it seems like it's not very deep at all. It seems to lack great prospects across the board. Even this OL Ford I have seen mocks of him being picked in the 20s. I don't think there's a true number 1 selection. That's not typically the case. But Shurmur gets to much credit for things that bounced his way was with us. Yes he won a playoff game.
The key was, Shurmur had balance in this offense unlike Flip. Which made a huge difference and he made that offense better than it should have been. He played to his QBs strengths. Something flip also didn’t do. Don’t be surprised if the giants take a QB at 6 and Metcalf at 17. Just because they are mocking the giants taking Haskins doesn’t mean that’s what’s going to happen. If they take Lock (big arm) and metcalf (deep threat)....that’s scary. His defense would still be a worry though. Either way, he built his OL the right way. Has a stud RB and TE. If I was a giants fan, I’d love everything he’s doing right now
You'r correct that would be scary. But I don't think Metcalf drops that far unless he proves he can't catch a football. Shurmur's balanced offense was a disaster in the playoffs. Something happened. But Flip turned out to be a bad hire. I certainly hope this new guy is the man. He was skipped over before for some reason. Is that reason still there?
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by fiestavike » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:23 pm

CharVike wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:24 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:00 am


The key was, Shurmur had balance in this offense unlike Flip. Which made a huge difference and he made that offense better than it should have been. He played to his QBs strengths. Something flip also didn’t do. Don’t be surprised if the giants take a QB at 6 and Metcalf at 17. Just because they are mocking the giants taking Haskins doesn’t mean that’s what’s going to happen. If they take Lock (big arm) and metcalf (deep threat)....that’s scary. His defense would still be a worry though. Either way, he built his OL the right way. Has a stud RB and TE. If I was a giants fan, I’d love everything he’s doing right now
Here is CBS mock for the Giants. They have the Ohio St QB picked earlier via trade. This is only their take.

Jonah Williams, OT, Alabama. The protection on the offensive line was nothing but a rumor for much of 2018, and if the team is going to put themselves in the best position to succeed, addressing those issues should be priority No. 1. Williams doesn't have the arm length many teams crave, but he makes up for it with his technique. The best part is he doesn't have to come in as a blindside blocker with the Giants, as he can adjust to the NFL at right tackle before an eventual move to the left side in 2020 if Nate Solder doesn't live up to his contract.

That's why when your in position to take a QB you pick him. Not a RB. I also get the feeling OL will fly off the board. Many felt Hernandez is/was a stud well he struggled also.

Here's our pick from them.

Jawaan Taylor, OT, Florida. Taylor could rocket up boards if he tests well over the next few months, but at bare minimum I expect him to go in the middle of the first round with the crushing need for offensive line around the league. He could develop at tackle or move inside to guard but, surprise, the Vikings need upgrades in both spots. I'd give him a shot at right tackle to start and see how his athleticism translates.

Bottom kine is the NFL is lacking OL players. Maybe we get lucky and an edge rusher drops to us. Either way this entire 2019 draft class appears to be weak to me. Nothing jumps out as boom this is the number one guy like when Luck came out for example.
If they update RT, where does O'Neill go? If he goes to LT, where does Reiff go? I'm actually a believer in Reiff at LG, but it would be a controversial and risky move. IF they are going to do it, I hope they'll do it right from the start of camp and build some continuity rather than fiddling with it this way and that right up until the start of the season.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:18 pm

CharVike wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:53 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:00 am


The key was, Shurmur had balance in this offense unlike Flip. Which made a huge difference and he made that offense better than it should have been. He played to his QBs strengths. Something flip also didn’t do. Don’t be surprised if the giants take a QB at 6 and Metcalf at 17. Just because they are mocking the giants taking Haskins doesn’t mean that’s what’s going to happen. If they take Lock (big arm) and metcalf (deep threat)....that’s scary. His defense would still be a worry though. Either way, he built his OL the right way. Has a stud RB and TE. If I was a giants fan, I’d love everything he’s doing right now
You'r correct that would be scary. But I don't think Metcalf drops that far unless he proves he can't catch a football. Shurmur's balanced offense was a disaster in the playoffs. Something happened. But Flip turned out to be a bad hire. I certainly hope this new guy is the man. He was skipped over before for some reason. Is that reason still there?
If you’re referring to the eagles game, yeah. But not the case in the saints game. Also, that eagles game got so out of hand so fast that it’s hard to continue running the ball
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by PacificNorseWest » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:40 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:23 pm
CharVike wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:24 am

Here is CBS mock for the Giants. They have the Ohio St QB picked earlier via trade. This is only their take.

Jonah Williams, OT, Alabama. The protection on the offensive line was nothing but a rumor for much of 2018, and if the team is going to put themselves in the best position to succeed, addressing those issues should be priority No. 1. Williams doesn't have the arm length many teams crave, but he makes up for it with his technique. The best part is he doesn't have to come in as a blindside blocker with the Giants, as he can adjust to the NFL at right tackle before an eventual move to the left side in 2020 if Nate Solder doesn't live up to his contract.

That's why when your in position to take a QB you pick him. Not a RB. I also get the feeling OL will fly off the board. Many felt Hernandez is/was a stud well he struggled also.

Here's our pick from them.

Jawaan Taylor, OT, Florida. Taylor could rocket up boards if he tests well over the next few months, but at bare minimum I expect him to go in the middle of the first round with the crushing need for offensive line around the league. He could develop at tackle or move inside to guard but, surprise, the Vikings need upgrades in both spots. I'd give him a shot at right tackle to start and see how his athleticism translates.

Bottom kine is the NFL is lacking OL players. Maybe we get lucky and an edge rusher drops to us. Either way this entire 2019 draft class appears to be weak to me. Nothing jumps out as boom this is the number one guy like when Luck came out for example.
If they update RT, where does O'Neill go? If he goes to LT, where does Reiff go? I'm actually a believer in Reiff at LG, but it would be a controversial and risky move. IF they are going to do it, I hope they'll do it right from the start of camp and build some continuity rather than fiddling with it this way and that right up until the start of the season.
There's a lot of versatile offensive lineman in this class so they may not need to move Reiff, although I would actually prefer they draft a tackle, move O'neill to LT and Reiff inside as you suggested.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Cliff » Sat May 18, 2019 3:50 pm

In my mind Cousins has the tools but he's not the kind of QB that can elevate a team. He'll have to prove otherwise because as it stands he's 5-30 against teams that have finished the season with a winning record. He had one such victory for the Vikings last season, I believe. Against the Eagles, I think?

Only time will change my mind about him.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun May 19, 2019 11:11 am

Cliff wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:50 pm
In my mind Cousins has the tools but he's not the kind of QB that can elevate a team. He'll have to prove otherwise because as it stands he's 5-30 against teams that have finished the season with a winning record. He had one such victory for the Vikings last season, I believe. Against the Eagles, I think?

Only time will change my mind about him.
Great article from Daily Norseman comparing Cousins to Brady.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/5/18 ... hing-super
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by StumpHunter » Sun May 19, 2019 1:37 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 11:11 am
Cliff wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:50 pm
In my mind Cousins has the tools but he's not the kind of QB that can elevate a team. He'll have to prove otherwise because as it stands he's 5-30 against teams that have finished the season with a winning record. He had one such victory for the Vikings last season, I believe. Against the Eagles, I think?

Only time will change my mind about him.
Great article from Daily Norseman comparing Cousins to Brady.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/5/18 ... hing-super
It is a bunch of excuse making for Cousins failures and the author arguing Cousins isn't just a meaningless stat line with meaningless statlines.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun May 19, 2019 1:43 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 1:37 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 11:11 am


Great article from Daily Norseman comparing Cousins to Brady.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/5/18 ... hing-super
It is a bunch of excuse making for Cousins failures and the author arguing Cousins isn't just a meaningless stat line with meaningless statlines.
The article tells it exactly like it is. If our OL is fixed look forward to very good times for the Vikings and their fans. Teams win or lose games. The QBs participate. Hopefully Cousins and the Vikings success this year won't depress you.
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