Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by CharVike » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:34 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:59 am
CharVike wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:26 pm

I never stated our defense was below average as you pointed out. They have played some tremendous football. We held the Lions below 10 points twice this year. What I'm getting at is all offensive woes are thrown at Cousins. We couldn't do anything offensively against the Pats and there D wasn't even ranked that high. We were tied 10-10 and then our D gave up a 75 yard drive in 4 plays. And then 50 yards in 6 plays. 10 plays 125 yards. Almost like they were toying with us. They probably could have scored whenever it was needed. Brady had 311 yards on 32 attempts. That's close to 10 yards an attempt. That's getting abused anyway you look at it. Not sure how that loses you. Cousins averaged less than 5 yards an attempt which really means he shouldn't be an NFL QB. The Ram guy did the same in the SB. He shouldn't be an NFL QB either. And yet the Pats D was rated as being basically crap. Maybe I'm getting confused to easily. But our D was roasted IMO in that game. Although the rating may say otherwise.
I'm saying saying you stated that but that's how you are putting it across as. I have gone to bat for Cousins because you are right, any offensive issue lands on Cousins shoulders. Which is far from accurate. Yeah, he played bad in a few games. There were other games he played well and other factors on offense were terrible. But every loss, every bad play, any offensive struggle, is all on Cousins which just isnt realistic.

As for the D, yeah Brady played well. We held him in check for a good chunk of the game but laid down at times. I get it. But that can and does even happen for the best defenses in the NFL. The Bears were the #1 D in the NFL and had 38 put up on them by Brady and were also embarrassed by the Giants and Dolphins. Rodgers also shredded them on one leg. I mean what QB truly shredded our defense this year? Goff and Brady. The two QBs that were in the SB this year. They were the #2 and #5 total offenses in the NFL and the #1 and #2 total offenses in the postseason. And for you to say Jared Goff shouldnt be an NFL QB?? Come on man. Almost 4,700 yards, 32 TDs and 12 INTs. That's a legit QB. Yeah he crapped his pants in the SB against the Patriots. That does NOT mean he shouldnt be on an NFL roster. That just doesnt even make sense.

As long as Mike Zimmer is here, this defense is always going to be legit. In the last 3 seasons, our D has been ranked 3rd in 2016, 1st in 2017 and 4th in 2018. This offense needs to have some of the same consistency that this defense does. That's where things need to be figured out IMO.
You are correct our offense struggled. You also correct Cousins shouldn't get all the blame. I agree with that. Cousins is a good QB is he Rodgers. Nope not even close. But who is? They don't become available. I'd like to see a SB before I die which all of us would. But were not even close right now.That includes Zim's D. We are stuck in the middle record wise. Worst spot to be in. I don't know the answer but this new OC Stan whatever is another joke. But Cousins will get all the blame. The 49ers gave Jimmy G a fortune and what has he done? They still blow. And he's always hurt going back to his NE days. That's a bad signing. At least Cousins plays. Even with an OL that let him take a beating. The Bears they challenge for the division again because there D is good. We won't move the ball on them. We don't have the players or coaches. I'd like to see a WR that can blow the top off the house. A guy that has teams shacking. We lack that. IMO. Or even a TE that can split the middle. We don't have that either. We have a slug that makes a ton. We also have a mental case playing DE that cost a ton. A dam good player who is finished. So we are wasting cap in more places than QB. Washington stated that Cousins cost them big time. I didn't see any improvement without him. Bring Case back I guess. At least he lead us to the Champ game which Cousins didn't/couldn't do. And yes NE crap D made Goff look like a bum IMO. He didn't look like an NFL QB.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:00 am

CharVike wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:34 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:59 am


I'm saying saying you stated that but that's how you are putting it across as. I have gone to bat for Cousins because you are right, any offensive issue lands on Cousins shoulders. Which is far from accurate. Yeah, he played bad in a few games. There were other games he played well and other factors on offense were terrible. But every loss, every bad play, any offensive struggle, is all on Cousins which just isnt realistic.

As for the D, yeah Brady played well. We held him in check for a good chunk of the game but laid down at times. I get it. But that can and does even happen for the best defenses in the NFL. The Bears were the #1 D in the NFL and had 38 put up on them by Brady and were also embarrassed by the Giants and Dolphins. Rodgers also shredded them on one leg. I mean what QB truly shredded our defense this year? Goff and Brady. The two QBs that were in the SB this year. They were the #2 and #5 total offenses in the NFL and the #1 and #2 total offenses in the postseason. And for you to say Jared Goff shouldnt be an NFL QB?? Come on man. Almost 4,700 yards, 32 TDs and 12 INTs. That's a legit QB. Yeah he crapped his pants in the SB against the Patriots. That does NOT mean he shouldnt be on an NFL roster. That just doesnt even make sense.

As long as Mike Zimmer is here, this defense is always going to be legit. In the last 3 seasons, our D has been ranked 3rd in 2016, 1st in 2017 and 4th in 2018. This offense needs to have some of the same consistency that this defense does. That's where things need to be figured out IMO.
You are correct our offense struggled. You also correct Cousins shouldn't get all the blame. I agree with that. Cousins is a good QB is he Rodgers. Nope not even close. But who is? They don't become available. I'd like to see a SB before I die which all of us would. But were not even close right now.That includes Zim's D. We are stuck in the middle record wise. Worst spot to be in. I don't know the answer but this new OC Stan whatever is another joke. But Cousins will get all the blame. The 49ers gave Jimmy G a fortune and what has he done? They still blow. And he's always hurt going back to his NE days. That's a bad signing. At least Cousins plays. Even with an OL that let him take a beating. The Bears they challenge for the division again because there D is good. We won't move the ball on them. We don't have the players or coaches. I'd like to see a WR that can blow the top off the house. A guy that has teams shacking. We lack that. IMO. Or even a TE that can split the middle. We don't have that either. We have a slug that makes a ton. We also have a mental case playing DE that cost a ton. A dam good player who is finished. So we are wasting cap in more places than QB. Washington stated that Cousins cost them big time. I didn't see any improvement without him. Bring Case back I guess. At least he lead us to the Champ game which Cousins didn't/couldn't do. And yes NE crap D made Goff look like a bum IMO. He didn't look like an NFL QB.
I guess one reason I'm not as worried is because we went 11-5 in 2015 and were a FG away from moving on in the playoffs and then the following year we went 8-8. And then bounced back to 13-3 and an NFC championship berth. Things can change fast, a schedule can look tough but end up being easier. You never know. I dont look at it as "we're in trouble and we're nothing more than a .500 team". We're better than that. It's all about how we get rolling, our schedule, players staying healthy, who we bring in and who makes an impact, etc. I'm looking forward to this season.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:04 am

mansquatch wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:16 pm
I'm coming back to this after a hiatus of several weeks. I still think in terms of team performance and QB specific performance, the coaching disparity between the Patriots Offensive staff and the Vikings Offensive Staff is the single greatest difference between the results of the two QBs during the 2018 season.

Brady played under the greatest NFL head coach ever and a well seasoned staff of offfensive coaches. He was also buoyed by players like James White who are ultimate professionals at their specific roles.

By contrast Cousins played under a first time OC that by mid-season was completely figured out by opposing DCs and had no answer as NFL teams adapted to his style. Add this to the fact the staff lost not just it's verteran OC from 2017, but also 2 days before training camp, it's OL Coach.

IMO this is the single largest difference between the two players and their surrounding cast. I said previously, if you look at the skill positions, it is arguably a push. We have better WR, they have better TE and a slight edge at RB. OL was an issue, but that was coaching related. Early on the Patriots OL wasn't so far from ours. By December that changed. COACHING...

Another way to think about it is this way: If Cousins got to play under BB in NE for the 2018 season I'm not sure he wins a SB, but I'm pretty sure he does a lot better than 8-7-1.

Also, 8-7-1 was not all on Kirk. There were a few games that were lost by the defense, perhaps most notably the TNF game in LA. Another by ST, ie the GB Tie. Against SEA and NE did Cousin's play bad or was the game planning terrible? IMO, it was more the latter. At no point in either of those games was our offense doing anything that looked competitive. Cousin's didn't remind me of TJack or Ponder where guys around him were executing and the QB just couldn't get it done.

The media right now are unbareably stupid. They are citing this refrain about how dissappointed everyone in Eagan is with KC. They have completely lost focus on what happened with Sparano and JDF. Spielman actually brought up the Sparano effect during an interview with PA at the Combine. Don't buy the media narrative, they will lead you to bad conclusions.
Yeah I watched that interview. Sparano was a huge part in this and there is 0 comparison when it comes to JDF and Shurmur. It's literally night and day. This is a big reason I keep saying its more than "just Cousins". Sparano, JDF, defensive play dropping a bit, the OL, the running game or lack there of, Rudy's play dropping, etc. Cousins made mistakes too. I mean Adam Thielen made mistakes for god sakes. It's a team game and the TEAM didnt perform up to standards this year. Period. It's not one person, its the team
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by CharVike » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:06 am

Cousins can't move or run huh? I found this.
Washington's starter has actually found the end zone with his legs more than peers like Andy Dalton (7), Alex Smith (7) and Aaron Rodgers (5) since taking over the primary gig in D.C., and all of those guys have reputations as runners that exceed Cousins'.

A big problem with us was Elf. Can't these coaches see he can't play? It's like have a blocking dummy out there. He needs to go in the dumpster. Unless they waste another season before they figure that out. It's over. I wouldn't put our players at risk. Your talking about careers. And this Jones guy must be worse. How is he even on the roster then. That's two that need to go now. And that's just the start of it.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:24 am

fiestavike wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:25 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:55 pm


The difference between the 3 of them is that Bradford and Case have never really had a good season outside of 2016 (Bradford) and 2017 (Case). Cousins threw for over 4,000 yards with Terrelle Pryor as his #1 WR last year. He's thrown for nearly identical numbers since he's been a starter. 4,000+ yards, 25+ TDs and 13 or less INTs each of his 4 years starting. Case and Sam never touched that yardage and neither of them threw for over 22 TDs, ever.... So do you think if Cousins didnt have Thielen or Diggs this year, his numbers would be garbage? Thielen and Diggs are the best 2 WRs he's ever had but it's not like they drastically elevated his play. He still puts up consistent numbers no matter who he is throwing too. For someone like Case, yeah when you're throwing a pop fly and Thielen is coming down with it, he's bailing you out and making you look better.
This is where you and I seem to fundamentally disagree. 4,000 yards does not make a good season in my book. Sometimes, 'pop fly' passes are better. There are things that to me are completely superficial that to you seem to mark excellence.
I actually think for the team to be successful Cousins numbers need to go down this season. If he is throwing the ball 25 times a game, just managing the game and limiting his chances for turnovers, we can win 10 games.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:31 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:24 am
fiestavike wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:25 pm


This is where you and I seem to fundamentally disagree. 4,000 yards does not make a good season in my book. Sometimes, 'pop fly' passes are better. There are things that to me are completely superficial that to you seem to mark excellence.
I actually think for the team to be successful Cousins numbers need to go down this season. If he is throwing the ball 25 times a game, just managing the game and limiting his chances for turnovers, we can win 10 games.
That's what I've said all season. Especially when Flip was here. They are trying to make Cousins into a QB that he is not. He doesnt need to throw for a million yards and a million times a game to carry this team. This offense can carry itself with balance. Too much talent not too. Case averaged 32 passes a game in 2017. Cousins averaged 38. He only broke 30 passes one time when Stefanski took over. Otherwise, that number would be in the 40's. That is a huge margin. We completely strayed away from what we did in 2017 and that was run a balanced offense. 11th total passing offense and 7th total rushing offense in 2017. That's the definition of balance. That's not because of Case Keenum. That's because of who is calling the shots which was Shurmur.

We could have ran the ball alot more than we did this past year. Cooks carries under Flip per game: 16, 10, 10, 10, 9, 10, 9, and 13. Murray's carries when he started: 2, 11, 24, 15, and 13. That's an absolute joke. ONE game out of 13 for Flip where a RB on this team had over 20 carries. And it was against the NFL worst run defense. Bad offensive line or not, that is zero effort to make a change and get the ball in one of your best players hands. And the sad thing is, some of those games Cook was running very well and still only got the ball 9-10 times. Same with Murray. 8 of those 13 games under Flip, our RBs were averaging right around 4 yards per carry and got the ball In that span Cousins was throwing 40-50 times a game. Also an absolute joke. In a game like Buffalo where you're down 17-0 after 4 offensive plays, yeah. But outside of that, it was completely unnecessary. Cook averaged 10.8 carries a game under Flip and Murray (when starting) averaged 13 carries a game. Completely unacceptable.

In the end, this defense is good enough to win us games. Our offense needs to step up, but they also dont need to light the world on fire. They need to have balance. I think Kubiak and Stefanski will bring that this year. Especially with how much heat Flip took for not wanting to listen to anyone or just adjust in general.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by mansquatch » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:16 pm

I know this will be surprising, but IMO last year was really a season where it was all about our coaches having a giant hiccup.

Zimmer and by extension the defense started the year with something of a NFCCG hangover. It didn't really get better until Week 6 or 7. Offensively, JDF started somewhat hot but once there was about 8 weeks of film on him the offense fell apart and really never recovered. ST we had our kicking woes which was just stupid. 5 year of it and no change, why?

As far as I'm concerned if you aren't talking about what happened with the coaching in 2018, then you are missing probably 75% of the picture. If you think I'm full of it consider:

On Offense we added 1/4 of a season of Dalvin Cook, we replaced Keenum with Cousins, and we saw our OL shuffle, losing both guards to injury and retirement. IMO there is no scenario where Keenum is better than Cousins. Don't be delusional. More Cook is a positive. OL was a negative. Does that equal the change in offensive output we saw from 2017 to 2018 all by itself, ie it is just on the players? No freaking way IMO.

Ultimately the 2018 season was all about coaching. Look at the SB. McVay had no chance against a BB with 2 weeks to game plan him.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:40 pm

mansquatch wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:16 pm
I know this will be surprising, but IMO last year was really a season where it was all about our coaches having a giant hiccup.

Zimmer and by extension the defense started the year with something of a NFCCG hangover. It didn't really get better until Week 6 or 7. Offensively, JDF started somewhat hot but once there was about 8 weeks of film on him the offense fell apart and really never recovered. ST we had our kicking woes which was just stupid. 5 year of it and no change, why?

As far as I'm concerned if you aren't talking about what happened with the coaching in 2018, then you are missing probably 75% of the picture. If you think I'm full of it consider:

On Offense we added 1/4 of a season of Dalvin Cook, we replaced Keenum with Cousins, and we saw our OL shuffle, losing both guards to injury and retirement. IMO there is no scenario where Keenum is better than Cousins. Don't be delusional. More Cook is a positive. OL was a negative. Does that equal the change in offensive output we saw from 2017 to 2018 all by itself, ie it is just on the players? No freaking way IMO.

Ultimately the 2018 season was all about coaching. Look at the SB. McVay had no chance against a BB with 2 weeks to game plan him.
Agreed 100%. I think it was more the monstrous difference between Flip and Shurmur as coordinators than anything. But you're right. I've been saying for quite some time now that losing Shurmur was bigger than anything else we might have gained or lost. Especially when we got an OC that didnt have a clue in return. The schedule was another huge factor. It's A LOT bigger than just Kirk Cousins. People gotta get past that. It gets old. Claiming Keenum would have done better than Cousins is the definition of being delusional. The team in general from the staff to the players didnt do their job this year. Period. Case would have been an embarrassment this year under an OC that throws the ball 40+ times a game.

I think Zim righted the ship with Kubiak and Stefanski IMO.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by mansquatch » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:34 pm

I actually wonder if the passing attack will end up be a topic of criticism next year. I think Kubiak has enough offensive mojo to keep it going, but it obvious to anyone paying attention that this team is going to put a heavy emphasis on the running game. Does that mean they overdo it and we stating saying stuff like "Uh what about Diggs?" Just speculation of course...

Taking that as an aside, the OL is still the biggest challenge, everything will begin and end there.

I take back what I said about not caring about FA. The Vikings will need a more "power" type RB to compliment Cook and take some of the load off of a player who has yet to show he can be on the field for a full NFL season. It seems obvious that Murray is going to leave, so who is that guy going to be?

Secondary topic: Expect Chicago to regress next year defensively. Whomever they hire at DC, it will be no Vic Fangio.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by CharVike » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:05 am

mansquatch wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:34 pm
I actually wonder if the passing attack will end up be a topic of criticism next year. I think Kubiak has enough offensive mojo to keep it going, but it obvious to anyone paying attention that this team is going to put a heavy emphasis on the running game. Does that mean they overdo it and we stating saying stuff like "Uh what about Diggs?" Just speculation of course...

Taking that as an aside, the OL is still the biggest challenge, everything will begin and end there.

I take back what I said about not caring about FA. The Vikings will need a more "power" type RB to compliment Cook and take some of the load off of a player who has yet to show he can be on the field for a full NFL season. It seems obvious that Murray is going to leave, so who is that guy going to be?

Secondary topic: Expect Chicago to regress next year defensively. Whomever they hire at DC, it will be no Vic Fangio.
Heavy emphasis on the running game is ok if you have a back that can do it. I like Dalvin Cook but he is not a 20+ carry a game guy. Of course you can do the RB by committee but we don't have the RBs. Murray is probably toast. It will be Cook, he has proven can't stay healthy, and then a bunch of bums that are nobodies. Of course the great hire Flip didn't run the ball at all. We should try and be balanced to a certain extent. Our play makers are all part of the passing game (Diggs, AT and Cousins) so it makes sense to use your strength. And as I said Cook is a dam good player. But expect him to miss his fair share of games and will need some rest. And I don't think he is a true workhorse. Him and Murray make a very good combo no doubt. We do have some skill players for sure. It's hard to understand why we fell flat. And this new OC they have didn't set the world on fire either. He's been a position coach for a long time and there's a reason for that. He lacks the skill to be a coordinator. Another dumb hire. But they have his replacement on board already. Thing is when will the change be made? When the seasons over.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:38 am

mansquatch wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:34 pm
I actually wonder if the passing attack will end up be a topic of criticism next year. I think Kubiak has enough offensive mojo to keep it going, but it obvious to anyone paying attention that this team is going to put a heavy emphasis on the running game. Does that mean they overdo it and we stating saying stuff like "Uh what about Diggs?" Just speculation of course...

Taking that as an aside, the OL is still the biggest challenge, everything will begin and end there.

I take back what I said about not caring about FA. The Vikings will need a more "power" type RB to compliment Cook and take some of the load off of a player who has yet to show he can be on the field for a full NFL season. It seems obvious that Murray is going to leave, so who is that guy going to be?

Secondary topic: Expect Chicago to regress next year defensively. Whomever they hire at DC, it will be no Vic Fangio.
Thats a good question. I'm starting to wonder the same. But if anything, it should help Kirk because now teams will actually have to worry about a run game AND Kirk instead of just knowing Kirk is throwing 45 times a game and we arent running the football
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:43 am

CharVike wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:05 am
mansquatch wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:34 pm
I actually wonder if the passing attack will end up be a topic of criticism next year. I think Kubiak has enough offensive mojo to keep it going, but it obvious to anyone paying attention that this team is going to put a heavy emphasis on the running game. Does that mean they overdo it and we stating saying stuff like "Uh what about Diggs?" Just speculation of course...

Taking that as an aside, the OL is still the biggest challenge, everything will begin and end there.

I take back what I said about not caring about FA. The Vikings will need a more "power" type RB to compliment Cook and take some of the load off of a player who has yet to show he can be on the field for a full NFL season. It seems obvious that Murray is going to leave, so who is that guy going to be?

Secondary topic: Expect Chicago to regress next year defensively. Whomever they hire at DC, it will be no Vic Fangio.
Heavy emphasis on the running game is ok if you have a back that can do it. I like Dalvin Cook but he is not a 20+ carry a game guy. Of course you can do the RB by committee but we don't have the RBs. Murray is probably toast. It will be Cook, he has proven can't stay healthy, and then a bunch of bums that are nobodies. Of course the great hire Flip didn't run the ball at all. We should try and be balanced to a certain extent. Our play makers are all part of the passing game (Diggs, AT and Cousins) so it makes sense to use your strength. And as I said Cook is a dam good player. But expect him to miss his fair share of games and will need some rest. And I don't think he is a true workhorse. Him and Murray make a very good combo no doubt. We do have some skill players for sure. It's hard to understand why we fell flat. And this new OC they have didn't set the world on fire either. He's been a position coach for a long time and there's a reason for that. He lacks the skill to be a coordinator. Another dumb hire. But they have his replacement on board already. Thing is when will the change be made? When the seasons over.
Rumor has it, Stefanski was the biggest advocate to bring in Kubiak. I dont necessarily think we hired Kubiak as a "possible replacement". Stefanski wanted him here more than anyone. Zim and Spielman both came out and said that.

As for Cook, IF he can stay healthy, he can definitely carry the ball 20+ times a game IMO. We need a solid backup but I'm sure we will get one. It's not like we're just going to let Murray walk and have nobody behind Cook who has had an injury history. You never know though with injuries. Rudy was labeled the most injury prone player ever within his first 3-4 years. Within like the last 4 years the guy hasnt missed a single game. Pretty crazy if you ask me. So Cook could easily be healthy for the next 3-4 years missing only a game or two. Who knows. The ACL injury sure didnt effect him this year so he got over that quick.
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:01 am

I think there was a big drop-off from Shurmur to JDF. I think the offensive line wasn’t very good, especially at run blocking. Very few teams have an OC as good as Shurmur though, and there are teams who struggled to run the football and still had success on offense.

So “5 years of kicking woes” is on the STs coach right? Well what if the kicker made all of his kicks in practice, was blocked for perfectly, made every non-pressure kick and missed most of his kicks when the game was on the line (not saying that is what happened, this is a hypothetical). Would you say that was on the STs coach, or would you think that was on the kicker? That is kind of what we had with our QB. Great against lousy teams for the most part, bad in high pressure games against good teams, again, for the most part. Great on 1st and 2nd down, really bad at converting on 3rd down. Before you say that is all on the line, or that it is hard to convert on third with negative run plays on 1st and 2nd, Bradford converted more 3rd downs behind a much worse line and with a much longer yard to gain on 3rd down than Cousins. In fact, Cousins had the lowest yard to gain on 3rd down of any Viking QB this decade, in large part because he was pretty good on 1st and 2nd down. Bradford is a garbage QB, he has been his entire career by every measure. Statistically, wins, in every way he has been really bad. Yet he had a higher 3rd down conversion rate than our QB behind a worse line with a longer yard to gain? So is that on the OC? Maybe, but it could be that the OC, who was able to call successful plays on 1st and 2nd, continued to call successful plays on 3rd, and the QB couldn’t handle the pressure. It honestly could be either one, but then there is Cousin’s 73.7 passer rating in the fourth when the game was within a score which also points to the QB struggling with pressure. Again, this could be the OC, so how about the biggest game of the season when that OC wasn’t there? Despite the line giving him the 4th most time in the NFL to throw the ball (behind 3 scrambling QBs), Cousins could get absolutely nothing done and had a mental breakdown screaming at his WR for running what he thought was the wrong route. This was not even a playoff game, and Cousins still couldn’t handle pressure.

Honestly, I do think if the Vikings had been able to retain Shurmur, the team would have had more success on offense, and I won’t pretend Flip was as good. Maybe they would have been 16th in scoring efficiency instead of 22nd. They could have had Bill Bellicheck as a coach this year though, and the team still wouldn’t have made it out of the first round of the playoffs, in my opinion.

It wasn’t all coaching, it wasn’t all offensive line and it wasn’t all the QB. All three are to blame, and only one of those three has people bending over backwards making excuses for it, and only one of those three are we stuck with for 2 more seasons. It is also only one of those three who is going to cost us other good players because of their salary.
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mansquatch
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by mansquatch » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:35 am

I'm not saying 5 years of kicking woes is all on the ST coach. More I'm saying we've had issues consistently over a 5 year period with veteran and rookie kickers alike. After 5 years it seems obvious to say we have a pattern vs. bad luck. So then the question becomes what are they doing about it? I can think of at least 4 wins this issue has cost them since 2015, including the obvious playoff loss. At this point I think the bigger question is why they didn't do something about it sooner? That is what bothers me.

On the Stefanski stuff I think his desire to have Kubiak onboard shows a quality worth of respect. He understands that he is young and new and there is a lot to know in the NFL. The fact that he welcomes someone like Kubiak to have a role with that much influences reflects positively on him IMO. Also, the Vikings have shown that can make this work, they had it with Sparano and Shurmer and that worked quite well. If anything, the organization has earned the benefit of the doubt on ths one.
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:56 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:01 am
I think there was a big drop-off from Shurmur to JDF. I think the offensive line wasn’t very good, especially at run blocking. Very few teams have an OC as good as Shurmur though, and there are teams who struggled to run the football and still had success on offense.

So “5 years of kicking woes” is on the STs coach right? Well what if the kicker made all of his kicks in practice, was blocked for perfectly, made every non-pressure kick and missed most of his kicks when the game was on the line (not saying that is what happened, this is a hypothetical). Would you say that was on the STs coach, or would you think that was on the kicker? That is kind of what we had with our QB. Great against lousy teams for the most part, bad in high pressure games against good teams, again, for the most part. Great on 1st and 2nd down, really bad at converting on 3rd down. Before you say that is all on the line, or that it is hard to convert on third with negative run plays on 1st and 2nd, Bradford converted more 3rd downs behind a much worse line and with a much longer yard to gain on 3rd down than Cousins. In fact, Cousins had the lowest yard to gain on 3rd down of any Viking QB this decade, in large part because he was pretty good on 1st and 2nd down. Bradford is a garbage QB, he has been his entire career by every measure. Statistically, wins, in every way he has been really bad. Yet he had a higher 3rd down conversion rate than our QB behind a worse line with a longer yard to gain? So is that on the OC? Maybe, but it could be that the OC, who was able to call successful plays on 1st and 2nd, continued to call successful plays on 3rd, and the QB couldn’t handle the pressure. It honestly could be either one, but then there is Cousin’s 73.7 passer rating in the fourth when the game was within a score which also points to the QB struggling with pressure. Again, this could be the OC, so how about the biggest game of the season when that OC wasn’t there? Despite the line giving him the 4th most time in the NFL to throw the ball (behind 3 scrambling QBs), Cousins could get absolutely nothing done and had a mental breakdown screaming at his WR for running what he thought was the wrong route. This was not even a playoff game, and Cousins still couldn’t handle pressure.

Honestly, I do think if the Vikings had been able to retain Shurmur, the team would have had more success on offense, and I won’t pretend Flip was as good. Maybe they would have been 16th in scoring efficiency instead of 22nd. They could have had Bill Bellicheck as a coach this year though, and the team still wouldn’t have made it out of the first round of the playoffs, in my opinion.

It wasn’t all coaching, it wasn’t all offensive line and it wasn’t all the QB. All three are to blame, and only one of those three has people bending over backwards making excuses for it, and only one of those three are we stuck with for 2 more seasons. It is also only one of those three who is going to cost us other good players because of their salary.
Of course, our kicking woes somehow result in discussing our QB and how much he sucks.... :deadhorse:

As for QB, coaching and OL..... Nobody on here has said Kirk Cousins wasnt to blame in any way. You are the one that has wanted to blame Cousins for anything and everything under the sun. That's why guys "make excuses" or defend him because you're over the top with your claims. You just discussed our kicking woes and then proceeded to go and continue to rip our QB for gods sake. It's like you cant get past it because your hate is that deep for the guy. If you dont like him, so be it. But be realistic is what guys are asking. I can sit here and say yeah, against Chicago (x2), Cousins played like crap. Against New England, Cousins played like crap and so did his OL. Against Detroit at home, his throw in the 2nd quarter that was picked was terrible. His INT vs Arizona was terrible. He wasnt good against Buffalo, even though its so hard to get a valid judgement because we were down 17-0 so fast that we were forced into throwing the rest of the game.

But I can also sit here and say there there were 4-5 interceptions that were thrown that werent on Cousins. Treadwells drop vs. GB, Murrays drop vs. Buff, stopped route by Diggs vs NO, missed block by Rudy vs. Miami, drop by Robinson vs. NE. That would have given Cousins 5 INTs on the year.

Bottom line is, it goes both ways. But you refuse to look at it both ways. You're strictly..."Kirk this" and nothing else matters. Not how it works. There is much more when you actually dig deep and analyze things.
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