Why did Kirk Cousins not play like Tom Brady?

[Pondering Her Percy]

Ok so is Kirk Cousins the reason the defenses play dipped in the last year? Is he the reason Cook and Murray werent touching the ball? Is he the reason we gave up the most pressures ever from an OL? Is he the reason for awful play calling? Is he the reason we couldnt make a FG with the game on the line? No. But that is making up excuses? Did those things not happen and am I pulling crap from the clouds?

Clearly Cousins wasnt the "missing piece" because there were a lot of other pieces that didnt do their part this year. Read my post I just made under the failed season thread. You fall under the category of being blinded by those two things. I guess my question for you is, what was the missing piece then? Because you make it sound like it was the QB and that someone could have done better than Kirk this year given all of what went wrong over the year. You said before, you wouldnt take Matt Stafford over Keenum but you would have drafted a QB instead this past offseason....The only QB we were in reach for is Lamar Jackson who literally doesnt know how to throw a football. So since you have no QB to draft last offseason, you have a choice of Cousins, Teddy, Case, and Bradford, who are you signing?? I'm guessing you say Case....so then what? Because he clearly came back down to earth this year and wouldnt have been good....at all. Draft one this year? And do what with the OL? Jump into the dumpster free agent pool? And who do you truly trust in this years draft? And please dont say Haskins. Literally nobody trusts him right now. Oh and chances are we wouldnt be picking first overall so we then have to trade away picks to get who we want without even knowing if he will be worth it or not. So I guess for someone who continuously rags on Cousins, I'd love to see what your 2-3 year plan would look like. Because we'd definitely be wasting a lot of years of our top players waiting for you to flush Case Keenum down the drain.

I have written about the Oline needing improvements. I have written we need a better #3 WR. Want to know the difference between when I comment about those guys and when I talk about Cousins' deficiencies?

No one makes pages of excuses for the Oline and Treadwell.

The OL has been a constant discussion for quite some time now. And why would anyone sit here and make an excuse for Remmers or Compton? They truly blow. That’s not the case for cousins so you don’t have much of an argument there. As for WR, I defended Treadwell for a long time saying he needed to get opportunity to truly see if he was a bust or not. He got a lot of opportunity early on and didn’t do much. So in turn, yeah he’s turning into a bust. It’s clear we need a #3 and guards. It’s not clear we need to replace our QB. Especially after one season with a crap offensive coordinator and OL. So I’m not sure where you’re trying to get with this but it’s not working

[PurpleKoolaid]

I have written about the Oline needing improvements. I have written we need a better #3 WR. Want to know the difference between when I comment about those guys and when I talk about Cousins' deficiencies?

No one makes pages of excuses for the Oline and Treadwell.

The OL has been a constant discussion for quite some time now. And why would anyone sit here and make an excuse for Remmers or Compton? They truly blow. That’s not the case for cousins so you don’t have much of an argument there. As for WR, I defended Treadwell for a long time saying he needed to get opportunity to truly see if he was a bust or not. He got a lot of opportunity early on and didn’t do much. So in turn, yeah he’s turning into a bust. It’s clear we need a #3 and guards. It’s not clear we need to replace our QB. Especially after one season with a crap offensive coordinator and OL. So I’m not sure where you’re trying to get with this but it’s not working

It's everyone's fault but Cousins. Even though Cousins has never proved a thing as a NFL QB. Except that he closes his eyes before he is hit.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

I have written about the Oline needing improvements. I have written we need a better #3 WR. Want to know the difference between when I comment about those guys and when I talk about Cousins' deficiencies?

No one makes pages of excuses for the Oline and Treadwell.

The OL has been a constant discussion for quite some time now. And why would anyone sit here and make an excuse for Remmers or Compton? They truly blow. That’s not the case for cousins so you don’t have much of an argument there. As for WR, I defended Treadwell for a long time saying he needed to get opportunity to truly see if he was a bust or not. He got a lot of opportunity early on and didn’t do much. So in turn, yeah he’s turning into a bust. It’s clear we need a #3 and guards. It’s not clear we need to replace our QB. Especially after one season with a crap offensive coordinator and OL. So I’m not sure where you’re trying to get with this but it’s not working

I don't understand guys like Treadwell who caught everything that came even close to his hands in college, and now pretty much only catches 50% of what hits him in the hands.

[StumpHunter]

The OL has been a constant discussion for quite some time now. And why would anyone sit here and make an excuse for Remmers or Compton? They truly blow. That’s not the case for cousins so you don’t have much of an argument there. As for WR, I defended Treadwell for a long time saying he needed to get opportunity to truly see if he was a bust or not. He got a lot of opportunity early on and didn’t do much. So in turn, yeah he’s turning into a bust. It’s clear we need a #3 and guards. It’s not clear we need to replace our QB. Especially after one season with a crap offensive coordinator and OL. So I’m not sure where you’re trying to get with this but it’s not working

I don't understand guys like Treadwell who caught everything that came even close to his hands in college, and now pretty much only catches 50% of what hits him in the hands.

Mental thing. He did improve after those two bad drops in GB, but you just know that the next time a QB throws to him in a big spot, he is going to drop it.

[Pondering Her Percy]

The OL has been a constant discussion for quite some time now. And why would anyone sit here and make an excuse for Remmers or Compton? They truly blow. That’s not the case for cousins so you don’t have much of an argument there. As for WR, I defended Treadwell for a long time saying he needed to get opportunity to truly see if he was a bust or not. He got a lot of opportunity early on and didn’t do much. So in turn, yeah he’s turning into a bust. It’s clear we need a #3 and guards. It’s not clear we need to replace our QB. Especially after one season with a crap offensive coordinator and OL. So I’m not sure where you’re trying to get with this but it’s not working

It's everyone's fault but Cousins. Even though Cousins has never proved a thing as a NFL QB. Except that he closes his eyes before he is hit.

Doesnt surprise me that you chime in with something irrelevant....

The point is, nobody ever said Compton and Remmers are talented guards so why would anymore make "excuses" for them? Many fans and analysts have said Kirk Cousins IS a talented quarterback so that why some fans defend him because they know he is a talented quarterback. Nobody is going to defend Remmers or Compton because everyone knows they arent good guards. Why is that so hard to understand?

And if you actually take the time to read my posts, I have said more than once that Cousins was at fault in his own way. But if you dont bother reading them, then dont bother responding with nonsense like you did above.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I don't understand guys like Treadwell who caught everything that came even close to his hands in college, and now pretty much only catches 50% of what hits him in the hands.

Mental thing. He did improve after those two bad drops in GB, but you just know that the next time a QB throws to him in a big spot, he is going to drop it.

I just think it's a confidence thing with him now. He never really got a legit shot at being a #1 or even #2 for that matter with the emergence of Thielen and Diggs. Going into that season, all we truly had was a 2nd year player in Diggs that flashed some his rookie season. We were in desperate need of a WR. We take Treadwell, and like always, the rookie WR sits to start the year and Thielen blows up. What are they going to do? Pull Thielen when he was playing unreal? Pull Diggs when he was going off? I feel bad for Treadwell in a way because I really dont believe he ever got a true shot. He was caught in a very rare situation. Most WR needy teams that have next to nothing on their roster, drafts a rookie and they get time much sooner than later. And nobody else on their roster decides to randomly blow up when given the opportunity. That happened to Treadwell. Thielen was given a shot until Treadwell was ready and he made the most of it. I wouldnt be surprised if Treadwell made some noise somewhere else.

[StumpHunter]

I have said more than once that Cousins was at fault in his own way.

What does that mean, "in his own way"?

Throwing pick sixes and fumbling games away is on him. Having a mental breakdown in the biggest game of the season is on him.

Being ineffective against most of the good teams we played is on him.

He lead the league in turnovers resulting in TDs in a season that saw horrible QB play from rookies, Sam Bradford and QBs who were not in the league at the start of the season. That is on him.

[VikingLord]

Throwing pick sixes and fumbling games away is on him.

You've made some solid points in this thread, but is it really fair to put the blame for every pick 6 and fumble solely on a QB, whether that QB is Cousins or someone else?

Pick 6's can occur off tipped balls that just happen find a defender in the right place at the right time. Heck, I've watched defensive linemen score off them. And QB fumbles rarely happen without a breakdown in the pass protection. Yes, pro QBs should be able to protect the football, but sometimes their arms are hit as they wind up, and sometimes a defender gets a clean shot off a blitz and can knock it out even if the QB is trying to protect it. Cousins does seem to fumble more than the average QB, but still, I don't recall him just muffing the ball. When he fumbled, he fumbled when he was hit.

Being ineffective against most of the good teams we played is on him.

This I'm also not sure you can lay solely at the feet of Cousins. The stats I posted before that showed the sack rate tell a story about what pressure on a QB can accomplish to reduce his effectiveness, and Cousins certainly saw his share of that. Add to that the Vikings had no consistent running game (I believe they finished ranked 30th and among the lowest in the league in rushing attempts) and you have a starting QB who was often forced into situations that favored the defense because the Vikings had no answer and no way to alter how defenses approached them.

That doesn't absolve Cousins of responsibility - it merely calls into question the portion of the result you can lay at his feet.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I have said more than once that Cousins was at fault in his own way.

What does that mean, "in his own way"?

Throwing pick sixes and fumbling games away is on him. Having a mental breakdown in the biggest game of the season is on him.

Being ineffective against most of the good teams we played is on him.

He lead the league in turnovers resulting in TDs in a season that saw horrible QB play from rookies, Sam Bradford and QBs who were not in the league at the start of the season. That is on him.

Such as, he made mistakes? What do you think it means? His two fumbles vs buffalo could be blamed on Reiff just as much as it could on Cousins. His pick 6 vs New Orleans Diggs stooped his route. His INT vs GB went right threw Treadwells hands. You want to put every turnover on him which in the end, just isn’t the truth.

And your “turnovers resulting in TDs” I already proved is a completely flawed stat. Whether the defense takes it to the house on that specific play or the other teams offense gets the ball and scores off that specific drive, they both “result in TDs”. So no, he did not lead the league in that category. So you can stop using that stat that you’ve had all year to use and all of the sudden bring it up now after you’ve nit picked everything. It doesn’t help your argument whatsoever when you keep bringing that up. Not one person on earth looks at a QBs turnovers and say that the picks and fumbles resulted in “immediate TDs” and not count what the other teams offense did following that turnover. There were many turnovers all over this league that maybe didn’t result in a pick 6 or a scoop and score right then and there but the opponent still scored a TD or at worst a FG off of that drive. There is zero difference. So you can put that nit picked stat to rest now

[StumpHunter]

What does that mean, "in his own way"?

Throwing pick sixes and fumbling games away is on him. Having a mental breakdown in the biggest game of the season is on him.

Being ineffective against most of the good teams we played is on him.

He lead the league in turnovers resulting in TDs in a season that saw horrible QB play from rookies, Sam Bradford and QBs who were not in the league at the start of the season. That is on him.

Such as, he made mistakes? What do you think it means? His two fumbles vs buffalo could be blamed on Reiff just as much as it could on Cousins. His pick 6 vs New Orleans Diggs stooped his route. His INT vs GB went right threw Treadwells hands. You want to put every turnover on him which in the end, just isn’t the truth.

And your “turnovers resulting in TDs” I already proved is a completely flawed stat. Whether the defense takes it to the house on that specific play or the other teams offense gets the ball and scores off that specific drive, they both “result in TDs”. So no, he did not lead the league in that category. So you can stop using that stat that you’ve had all year to use and all of the sudden bring it up now after you’ve nit picked everything. It doesn’t help your argument whatsoever when you keep bringing that up. Not one person on earth looks at a QBs turnovers and say that the picks and fumbles resulted in “immediate TDs” and not count what the other teams offense did following that turnover. There were many turnovers all over this league that maybe didn’t result in a pick 6 or a scoop and score right then and there but the opponent still scored a TD or at worst a FG off of that drive. There is zero difference. So you can put that nit picked stat to rest now

Ironically, he was tied with Keenum for the most turnovers in the NFL at 17. So many WRs running bad routes and Olinemen missing blocks. What an unlucky QB Cousins was last year...

[StumpHunter]

Throwing pick sixes and fumbling games away is on him.

You've made some solid points in this thread, but is it really fair to put the blame for every pick 6 and fumble solely on a QB, whether that QB is Cousins or someone else?

Pick 6's can occur off tipped balls that just happen find a defender in the right place at the right time. Heck, I've watched defensive linemen score off them. And QB fumbles rarely happen without a breakdown in the pass protection. Yes, pro QBs should be able to protect the football, but sometimes their arms are hit as they wind up, and sometimes a defender gets a clean shot off a blitz and can knock it out even if the QB is trying to protect it. Cousins does seem to fumble more than the average QB, but still, I don't recall him just muffing the ball. When he fumbled, he fumbled when he was hit.

Being ineffective against most of the good teams we played is on him.

This I'm also not sure you can lay solely at the feet of Cousins. The stats I posted before that showed the sack rate tell a story about what pressure on a QB can accomplish to reduce his effectiveness, and Cousins certainly saw his share of that. Add to that the Vikings had no consistent running game (I believe they finished ranked 30th and among the lowest in the league in rushing attempts) and you have a starting QB who was often forced into situations that favored the defense because the Vikings had no answer and no way to alter how defenses approached them.

That doesn't absolve Cousins of responsibility - it merely calls into question the portion of the result you can lay at his feet.

QBs need to protect the ball. He doesn't do that very well.

Edit: Just did a search on play finder and Kirk Cousins has the most turnovers for TDs of any player in the NFL since 2015 at 12. From 2015 to 2016, when he had a great line WRs to throw too, he lead the league with 4. It has only gotten worse from there. He has the 5th most turnovers overall since he became a fulltime starter.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Such as, he made mistakes? What do you think it means? His two fumbles vs buffalo could be blamed on Reiff just as much as it could on Cousins. His pick 6 vs New Orleans Diggs stooped his route. His INT vs GB went right threw Treadwells hands. You want to put every turnover on him which in the end, just isn’t the truth.

And your “turnovers resulting in TDs” I already proved is a completely flawed stat. Whether the defense takes it to the house on that specific play or the other teams offense gets the ball and scores off that specific drive, they both “result in TDs”. So no, he did not lead the league in that category. So you can stop using that stat that you’ve had all year to use and all of the sudden bring it up now after you’ve nit picked everything. It doesn’t help your argument whatsoever when you keep bringing that up. Not one person on earth looks at a QBs turnovers and say that the picks and fumbles resulted in “immediate TDs” and not count what the other teams offense did following that turnover. There were many turnovers all over this league that maybe didn’t result in a pick 6 or a scoop and score right then and there but the opponent still scored a TD or at worst a FG off of that drive. There is zero difference. So you can put that nit picked stat to rest now

Ironically, he was tied with Keenum for the most turnovers in the NFL at 17. So many WRs running bad routes and Olinemen missing blocks. What an unlucky QB Cousins was last year...

lol dude do me a favor and please find some stats that actually have some validity to them.

-Rosen led the NFL with 19 turnovers
-Then Big Ben with 18
-Darnold, Cousins, Keenum, Mayfield, Winston, Goff all had 17
-Luck with 16
-And almost the remainder of the league at 15.

When did I once say WRs were running bad routes.....did Diggs not stop his route vs. the Saints? Or am I seeing things? Outside of that, I didnt say a word about "so many WRs running bad routes". It was one route that he stopped the second Cousins threw the ball and it ended up being an interception. I was there. Literally witnessed it with my own two eyes. And did Reiff not give up 12 pressures vs the Bills and literally get abused by Jerry Hughes? Because I was at that game too and witnessed it with my own two eyes. Listen I'm not here to make up excuses for Kirk Cousins. I can pick apart games where he made terrible throws. I can pick apart games where he held the ball too long. But bottom line is, in the end, it was on the TEAM. Kirk Cousins didnt "lose" us games. Just like Case Keenum didnt solely "win" us games. But I can tell you right now, Cousins with forever be a more talented QB than Case Keenum. If Keenum was talented, he'd actually be starting somewhere for more than 1 year. But I'm at the point of once again, agreeing to disagree with you because you're so blinded by Cousins salary and our miracle season with Keenum that you have nothing but tunnel vision. Every guy on this team was at fault in their own way last year. But Kirk Cousins didnt ruin our season. And your judgement of how good or bad he is awfully premature given he's been here 1 season. But either way, I'm tired of going back and forth.

[StumpHunter]

Ironically, he was tied with Keenum for the most turnovers in the NFL at 17. So many WRs running bad routes and Olinemen missing blocks. What an unlucky QB Cousins was last year...

lol dude do me a favor and please find some stats that actually have some validity to them.

-Rosen led the NFL with 19 turnovers
-Then Big Ben with 18
-Darnold, Cousins, Keenum, Mayfield, Winston, Goff all had 17
-Luck with 16
-And almost the remainder of the league at 15.

When did I once say WRs were running bad routes.....did Diggs not stop his route vs. the Saints? Or am I seeing things? Outside of that, I didnt say a word about "so many WRs running bad routes". It was one route that he stopped the second Cousins threw the ball and it ended up being an interception. I was there. Literally witnessed it with my own two eyes. And did Reiff not give up 12 pressures vs the Bills and literally get abused by Jerry Hughes? Because I was at that game too and witnessed it with my own two eyes. Listen I'm not here to make up excuses for Kirk Cousins. I can pick apart games where he made terrible throws. I can pick apart games where he held the ball too long. But bottom line is, in the end, it was on the TEAM. Kirk Cousins didnt "lose" us games. Just like Case Keenum didnt solely "win" us games. But I can tell you right now, Cousins with forever be a more talented QB than Case Keenum. If Keenum was talented, he'd actually be starting somewhere for more than 1 year. But I'm at the point of once again, agreeing to disagree with you because you're so blinded by Cousins salary and our miracle season with Keenum that you have nothing but tunnel vision. Every guy on this team was at fault in their own way last year. But Kirk Cousins didnt ruin our season. And your judgement of how good or bad he is awfully premature given he's been here 1 season. But either way, I'm tired of going back and forth.

My bad, tied for 3rd behind a rookie playing on one of the worst offenses I have ever seen, and Big Ben in decline.

Diggs did what he does all the time on that route, see his QB in trouble and stop in space to give him an outlet. There was no way he could have anticipated his QB would throw the ball sidearm around a defender without being able to see him to the CB who was covering Diggs (and who would have caught it if Diggs had continued anyway). It was a horrible decision by the QB, and it cost us seven pts the other way.

I am actually pretty tired of the back and forth too. We are stuck with him for two seasons and I hope he figures things out. What I don't want next off season is for the goal post for a successful season for Cousins to move once again, like it did this past year.

Reading that it doesn't matter if we make the playoffs in the next 2 seasons for the signing of Cousins to be successful seems like place setting for another failed 2 seasons and extending Cousins regardless of the results on the field. That seems like a bad move to me.

For me, he needs to not only put up decent numbers (and I actually think his numbers will go down if the team is winning), but also start winning games consistently against good teams, winning in the playoffs, and proving he has the "it" it takes to win it all. Anything short of that and we need to move on.

[Pondering Her Percy]

lol dude do me a favor and please find some stats that actually have some validity to them.

-Rosen led the NFL with 19 turnovers
-Then Big Ben with 18
-Darnold, Cousins, Keenum, Mayfield, Winston, Goff all had 17
-Luck with 16
-And almost the remainder of the league at 15.

When did I once say WRs were running bad routes.....did Diggs not stop his route vs. the Saints? Or am I seeing things? Outside of that, I didnt say a word about "so many WRs running bad routes". It was one route that he stopped the second Cousins threw the ball and it ended up being an interception. I was there. Literally witnessed it with my own two eyes. And did Reiff not give up 12 pressures vs the Bills and literally get abused by Jerry Hughes? Because I was at that game too and witnessed it with my own two eyes. Listen I'm not here to make up excuses for Kirk Cousins. I can pick apart games where he made terrible throws. I can pick apart games where he held the ball too long. But bottom line is, in the end, it was on the TEAM. Kirk Cousins didnt "lose" us games. Just like Case Keenum didnt solely "win" us games. But I can tell you right now, Cousins with forever be a more talented QB than Case Keenum. If Keenum was talented, he'd actually be starting somewhere for more than 1 year. But I'm at the point of once again, agreeing to disagree with you because you're so blinded by Cousins salary and our miracle season with Keenum that you have nothing but tunnel vision. Every guy on this team was at fault in their own way last year. But Kirk Cousins didnt ruin our season. And your judgement of how good or bad he is awfully premature given he's been here 1 season. But either way, I'm tired of going back and forth.

My bad, tied for 3rd behind a rookie playing on one of the worst offenses I have ever seen, and Big Ben in decline.

Diggs did what he does all the time on that route, see his QB in trouble and stop in space to give him an outlet. There was no way he could have anticipated his QB would throw the ball sidearm around a defender without being able to see him to the CB who was covering Diggs (and who would have caught it if Diggs had continued anyway). It was a horrible decision by the QB, and it cost us seven pts the other way.

I am actually pretty tired of the back and forth too. We are stuck with him for two seasons and I hope he figures things out. What I don't want next off season is for the goal post for a successful season for Cousins to move once again, like it did this past year.

Reading that it doesn't matter if we make the playoffs in the next 2 seasons for the signing of Cousins to be successful seems like place setting for another failed 2 seasons and extending Cousins regardless of the results on the field. That seems like a bad move to me.

For me, he needs to not only put up decent numbers (and I actually think his numbers will go down if the team is winning), but also start winning games consistently against good teams, winning in the playoffs, and proving he has the "it" it takes to win it all. Anything short of that and we need to move on.

lol ok Big Ben in "decline". Threw for over 5,100 yards and 34 TDs but he's in "decline". Makes sense.

Go watch the highlights dude. Diggs was in front of PJ Williams the whole time until he stopped. And he stopped right when Cousins was throwing. If Diggs keeps going, that's an easy completion if Cousins leads him. It was a simple drag route with a defender trailing Diggs. Cousins didnt have to throw around anyone. He had to throw the ball in front of Diggs and it's a catch. And it was a miscommunication on both of them. But of course, you only blame Cousins.

So if we make a run in the playoffs but dont win it all because lets say our D played like crap, the Cousins signing is a bad signing? You're one of those fans that think "if Cousins doesnt win a SB, he's a bust signing". Yeah, I would hope he could maybe get us there but saying that he needs to win us a SB in the next 3 years in order to not be a bust, is pretty ridiculous. There are 30 QBs in the league every year that dont get to the SB. Does that mean that all of their contracts dont warrant them being on the team? Because they didnt win a SB? Come on....

[halfgiz]

I thought the whole reason we brought Cousins in was to get us to the next step.
We got to the NFC title game...Whats the next step?