Super bowl

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
PurpleMustReign
Starting Wide Receiver
Posts: 19079
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Location: Crystal, MN
x 104

Re: Super bowl

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:33 pm

Why does Brady get no love? He didn't have a great game but again, he played well when it mattered. I'd rather have a QB play well when the game is on the line than one who just gets garbage stats.
1 x
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2018

YikesVikes
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 855
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
x 74

Re: Super bowl

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:18 pm

S197 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:13 pm
I'll admit a big part of me hating this game is I really don't care for either team. BB is definitely the GOAT and I respect him for that, it just gets old seeing them in the championship every year. The time between the AFCC and Superbowl is a scary amount of time for him to Mastermind a plan.

What he's done with that roster is phenomenal but unlikely something the Vikings can emulate. My worry isn't so much that we don't take a guard in the 1st but that we wait until late in the draft to take a guard, which Spielman has continually done with very poor results. I'm trying to remember the last guard we took in say the first 3 rounds and I think it may be Ryan Cook. Who was a Fran Foley pick. Elflein may be the only interior guy Rick has ever taken early.
How many linemen has he taken int the 1st two rounds. 2 in the last two out of need. Scary to see what they think they can do with a #### line.
0 x

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11703
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 198

Re: Super bowl

Post by S197 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:52 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:18 pm
S197 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:13 pm
I'll admit a big part of me hating this game is I really don't care for either team. BB is definitely the GOAT and I respect him for that, it just gets old seeing them in the championship every year. The time between the AFCC and Superbowl is a scary amount of time for him to Mastermind a plan.

What he's done with that roster is phenomenal but unlikely something the Vikings can emulate. My worry isn't so much that we don't take a guard in the 1st but that we wait until late in the draft to take a guard, which Spielman has continually done with very poor results. I'm trying to remember the last guard we took in say the first 3 rounds and I think it may be Ryan Cook. Who was a Fran Foley pick. Elflein may be the only interior guy Rick has ever taken early.
How many linemen has he taken int the 1st two rounds. 2 in the last two out of need. Scary to see what they think they can do with a #### line.
He didn't take a lineman last year in the first two rounds, Elflein was a 3rd round pick. Spielman has also never taken a guard in the first two rounds since becoming GM over a decade ago. Closest is Beavers in the 4th or Elf if you consider him a hybrid role.
0 x

YikesVikes
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 855
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
x 74

Re: Super bowl

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:13 pm

S197 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:52 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:18 pm


How many linemen has he taken int the 1st two rounds. 2 in the last two out of need. Scary to see what they think they can do with a #### line.
He didn't take a lineman last year in the first two rounds, Elflein was a 3rd round pick. Spielman has also never taken a guard in the first two rounds since becoming GM over a decade ago. Closest is Beavers in the 4th or Elf if you consider him a hybrid role.
Missed on Elfein. Forgot he was a 3rd rounder and not a 2nd rounder. Point still stands. We don't invest in the oline and we couldn't block a pop-up notification last year.
0 x

mansquatch
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3684
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:44 pm
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
x 74

Re: Super bowl

Post by mansquatch » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:31 pm

Did you guys see PHP's post on the NE OL? All those guys are late round picks. In some cases they were free agents jettisoned from other clubs. BB and co have figured out how to coach those guys up within a single season. That is the big difference. I'm not sure it will matter all that much if the Vikes draft a 1st rounder vs. a 5th rounder if the coaching isn't in place to develop the guy effectively.
0 x
Winning is not a sometime thing it is an all of the time thing - Vince Lombardi

User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 37766
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL
x 106

Re: Super bowl

Post by Mothman » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:58 pm

S197 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:13 pm
I'll admit a big part of me hating this game is I really don't care for either team. BB is definitely the GOAT and I respect him for that, it just gets old seeing them in the championship every year. The time between the AFCC and Superbowl is a scary amount of time for him to Mastermind a plan.

What he's done with that roster is phenomenal but unlikely something the Vikings can emulate. My worry isn't so much that we don't take a guard in the 1st but that we wait until late in the draft to take a guard, which Spielman has continually done with very poor results. I'm trying to remember the last guard we took in say the first 3 rounds and I think it may be Ryan Cook. Who was a Fran Foley pick. Elflein may be the only interior guy Rick has ever taken early.
He is. Other than Elflein, Spielman has never drafted an interior lineman for the Vikings before the fifth round.
0 x

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11703
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 198

Re: Super bowl

Post by S197 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:58 pm

mansquatch wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:31 pm
Did you guys see PHP's post on the NE OL? All those guys are late round picks. In some cases they were free agents jettisoned from other clubs. BB and co have figured out how to coach those guys up within a single season. That is the big difference. I'm not sure it will matter all that much if the Vikes draft a 1st rounder vs. a 5th rounder if the coaching isn't in place to develop the guy effectively.
Off the top of my head, Kalil, Loadholt and Elflein are the only 3 players he's drafted before round 4. Small sample size but better hit rate than the revolving door of 6/7th round picks. I'd like to at least see an effort in the early rounds. If he misses he'll prob Be out of a job anyway.
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6684
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY
x 187

Re: Super bowl

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:02 am

S197 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:58 pm
mansquatch wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:31 pm
Did you guys see PHP's post on the NE OL? All those guys are late round picks. In some cases they were free agents jettisoned from other clubs. BB and co have figured out how to coach those guys up within a single season. That is the big difference. I'm not sure it will matter all that much if the Vikes draft a 1st rounder vs. a 5th rounder if the coaching isn't in place to develop the guy effectively.
Off the top of my head, Kalil, Loadholt and Elflein are the only 3 players he's drafted before round 4. Small sample size but better hit rate than the revolving door of 6/7th round picks. I'd like to at least see an effort in the early rounds. If he misses he'll prob Be out of a job anyway.
O’Neill is the other one. I personally think the sweet spot in most drafted are the 2nd-4th rounds. After that, you might get a hit or two but not many. But I feel like a lot of excellent offensive lineman are found in those rounds. If you look at the league average, I’m guessing all starting offensive lineman in the nfl were an average of maybe a 3rd-4th pick or so.

I already know how it’s going to be on here if we pass on OL in round 1. It’s gonna be the whole “we suck, Fire everyone” conversations. But as long as we assess OL right after that, we shouldn’t worry. We don’t HAVE to draft OL right there. It’s also going to be dependent on what we sign in free agency as well
0 x
Image

YikesVikes
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 855
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
x 74

Re: Super bowl

Post by YikesVikes » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:36 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:02 am
S197 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:58 pm


Off the top of my head, Kalil, Loadholt and Elflein are the only 3 players he's drafted before round 4. Small sample size but better hit rate than the revolving door of 6/7th round picks. I'd like to at least see an effort in the early rounds. If he misses he'll prob Be out of a job anyway.
O’Neill is the other one. I personally think the sweet spot in most drafted are the 2nd-4th rounds. After that, you might get a hit or two but not many. But I feel like a lot of excellent offensive lineman are found in those rounds. If you look at the league average, I’m guessing all starting offensive lineman in the nfl were an average of maybe a 3rd-4th pick or so.

I already know how it’s going to be on here if we pass on OL in round 1. It’s gonna be the whole “we suck, Fire everyone” conversations. But as long as we assess OL right after that, we shouldn’t worry. We don’t HAVE to draft OL right there. It’s also going to be dependent on what we sign in free agency as well
My only problem with that statement is that I don't want a good olineman. This line needs a gamechanger. The same way you will want a WR corp made up of several good WRs and atleast one gamechanger. We don't have that one guy on the oline that we can run behind consistently on 4th and 1. We have 2 good guys and badly need a stud on the oline. Not saying, it isn't possible in round 2-4 but it is less likely. Not sure why we would invest another 1st rounder in a position that doesn't need it (almost all of our other positions). To me those are the positions that we can do without a gamechanger and put a good player.

QB - No need for a GC
RB - No need for a GC
WR - No need for a GC
TE - No need for a GC
OLine - No need for a GC
DL - No need for a GC
Lb - Possible need
CB - No need for a GC
Safety - No need for a GC

Of all the positions on our team, the positions that need the biggest infusion of talent is the Oline. LB can make due with a 2nd round talent. DT is a possible but we should be able to pair 1 average guy with our 3 out Allstars.
0 x

YikesVikes
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 855
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
x 74

Re: Super bowl

Post by YikesVikes » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:40 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:58 pm
mansquatch wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:31 pm
Did you guys see PHP's post on the NE OL? All those guys are late round picks. In some cases they were free agents jettisoned from other clubs. BB and co have figured out how to coach those guys up within a single season. That is the big difference. I'm not sure it will matter all that much if the Vikes draft a 1st rounder vs. a 5th rounder if the coaching isn't in place to develop the guy effectively.
Off the top of my head, Kalil, Loadholt and Elflein are the only 3 players he's drafted before round 4. Small sample size but better hit rate than the revolving door of 6/7th round picks. I'd like to at least see an effort in the early rounds. If he misses he'll prob Be out of a job anyway.
Beavers was a 3rd rounder I think. Either way, thats a pathetic amount to invest into the oline considering that we didn't already have a team of young studs during that time.
0 x

YikesVikes
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 855
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
x 74

Re: Super bowl

Post by YikesVikes » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:42 pm

mansquatch wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:31 pm
Did you guys see PHP's post on the NE OL? All those guys are late round picks. In some cases they were free agents jettisoned from other clubs. BB and co have figured out how to coach those guys up within a single season. That is the big difference. I'm not sure it will matter all that much if the Vikes draft a 1st rounder vs. a 5th rounder if the coaching isn't in place to develop the guy effectively.
They work because they have a QB with one of the quickest releases in history. Trying to replicate what they do is silly. You will fail every time. They are the exception not the norm.
0 x

Crax
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1807
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:48 am
Location: Utah
x 5

Re: Super bowl

Post by Crax » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:17 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:42 pm
mansquatch wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:31 pm
Did you guys see PHP's post on the NE OL? All those guys are late round picks. In some cases they were free agents jettisoned from other clubs. BB and co have figured out how to coach those guys up within a single season. That is the big difference. I'm not sure it will matter all that much if the Vikes draft a 1st rounder vs. a 5th rounder if the coaching isn't in place to develop the guy effectively.
They work because they have a QB with one of the quickest releases in history. Trying to replicate what they do is silly. You will fail every time. They are the exception not the norm.
I don't think it's just Tom Brady. It's the Belicheck system and the pats. They've consistently been able to get players nobody really wanted and plug them into their system and get good success out of them. Kyle Van Noy was considered a bust on the Lions, the pats got him for like a 6th round pick and now he was the highest rated LB this recent SB run. It's crazy how many times the Pats seem to take guys considered bad and have them flourish in the BB system.
0 x

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11703
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 198

Re: Super bowl

Post by S197 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:15 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:40 pm
S197 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:58 pm


Off the top of my head, Kalil, Loadholt and Elflein are the only 3 players he's drafted before round 4. Small sample size but better hit rate than the revolving door of 6/7th round picks. I'd like to at least see an effort in the early rounds. If he misses he'll prob Be out of a job anyway.
Beavers was a 3rd rounder I think. Either way, thats a pathetic amount to invest into the oline considering that we didn't already have a team of young studs during that time.
He was a 4th rounder but yeah those picks have been far too few.
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6684
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY
x 187

Re: Super bowl

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:06 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:36 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:02 am


O’Neill is the other one. I personally think the sweet spot in most drafted are the 2nd-4th rounds. After that, you might get a hit or two but not many. But I feel like a lot of excellent offensive lineman are found in those rounds. If you look at the league average, I’m guessing all starting offensive lineman in the nfl were an average of maybe a 3rd-4th pick or so.

I already know how it’s going to be on here if we pass on OL in round 1. It’s gonna be the whole “we suck, Fire everyone” conversations. But as long as we assess OL right after that, we shouldn’t worry. We don’t HAVE to draft OL right there. It’s also going to be dependent on what we sign in free agency as well
My only problem with that statement is that I don't want a good olineman. This line needs a gamechanger. The same way you will want a WR corp made up of several good WRs and atleast one gamechanger. We don't have that one guy on the oline that we can run behind consistently on 4th and 1. We have 2 good guys and badly need a stud on the oline. Not saying, it isn't possible in round 2-4 but it is less likely. Not sure why we would invest another 1st rounder in a position that doesn't need it (almost all of our other positions). To me those are the positions that we can do without a gamechanger and put a good player.

QB - No need for a GC
RB - No need for a GC
WR - No need for a GC
TE - No need for a GC
OLine - No need for a GC
DL - No need for a GC
Lb - Possible need
CB - No need for a GC
Safety - No need for a GC

Of all the positions on our team, the positions that need the biggest infusion of talent is the Oline. LB can make due with a 2nd round talent. DT is a possible but we should be able to pair 1 average guy with our 3 out Allstars.
I agree with what you are saying but whether we are picking at 18th in the 1st or 50th in the 2nd I dont think it matters. We can find a game changer at either spot. If a few top OL go and we're up at 18, I dont mind passing and waiting until the 2nd. I'm sure there will be one guy everyone will complain about not taking like guys did with Hernandez this year, however, O'Neill might have been the better pick in the end. You have to remember this draft is very defense heavy. OL are going to fall well into the 2nd. If we have an opportunity to get a guy like Montez Sweat and then follow up with a guard like Chris Lindstrom from BC, Michael Jordan from Ohio St or Michael Deiter from Wisconsin, I'm ecstatic!. We cant just hone in on offensive line Round 1 or we are going to possibly screw ourselves.

You say there are no needs for game changers at all these positions but do you think the Vikings needed a game changer at WR when we had Cris Carter and Jake Reed but decided to draft Randy Moss?? What if Montez Sweat is sitting there, we have him ranked very high on our board and let Griffen walk this offseason (or even if we didnt)? What if he is the next Khalil Mack but we pass on him because we have offensive line goggles on? I keep saying to this day, I take Mike Hughes and Brian O'Neill any day of the week over Will Hernandez and Josh Jackson. We made the right call last year with our first two picks.

All I'm saying is I just want us to pick smart and not to have tunnel vision for OL. There will be A LOT of talent in the 2nd and 3rd round this draft. Not saying we should pass in the first but if we did, we are still in great shape.
0 x
Image

User avatar
PurpleMustReign
Starting Wide Receiver
Posts: 19079
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Location: Crystal, MN
x 104

Re: Super bowl

Post by PurpleMustReign » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:21 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:06 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:36 pm


My only problem with that statement is that I don't want a good olineman. This line needs a gamechanger. The same way you will want a WR corp made up of several good WRs and atleast one gamechanger. We don't have that one guy on the oline that we can run behind consistently on 4th and 1. We have 2 good guys and badly need a stud on the oline. Not saying, it isn't possible in round 2-4 but it is less likely. Not sure why we would invest another 1st rounder in a position that doesn't need it (almost all of our other positions). To me those are the positions that we can do without a gamechanger and put a good player.

QB - No need for a GC
RB - No need for a GC
WR - No need for a GC
TE - No need for a GC
OLine - No need for a GC
DL - No need for a GC
Lb - Possible need
CB - No need for a GC
Safety - No need for a GC

Of all the positions on our team, the positions that need the biggest infusion of talent is the Oline. LB can make due with a 2nd round talent. DT is a possible but we should be able to pair 1 average guy with our 3 out Allstars.
I agree with what you are saying but whether we are picking at 18th in the 1st or 50th in the 2nd I dont think it matters. We can find a game changer at either spot. If a few top OL go and we're up at 18, I dont mind passing and waiting until the 2nd. I'm sure there will be one guy everyone will complain about not taking like guys did with Hernandez this year, however, O'Neill might have been the better pick in the end. You have to remember this draft is very defense heavy. OL are going to fall well into the 2nd. If we have an opportunity to get a guy like Montez Sweat and then follow up with a guard like Chris Lindstrom from BC, Michael Jordan from Ohio St or Michael Deiter from Wisconsin, I'm ecstatic!. We cant just hone in on offensive line Round 1 or we are going to possibly screw ourselves.

You say there are no needs for game changers at all these positions but do you think the Vikings needed a game changer at WR when we had Cris Carter and Jake Reed but decided to draft Randy Moss?? What if Montez Sweat is sitting there, we have him ranked very high on our board and let Griffen walk this offseason (or even if we didnt)? What if he is the next Khalil Mack but we pass on him because we have offensive line goggles on? I keep saying to this day, I take Mike Hughes and Brian O'Neill any day of the week over Will Hernandez and Josh Jackson. We made the right call last year with our first two picks.

All I'm saying is I just want us to pick smart and not to have tunnel vision for OL. There will be A LOT of talent in the 2nd and 3rd round this draft. Not saying we should pass in the first but if we did, we are still in great shape.
I'd rather they trade back if their OL guy isn't there unless there is an absolute Sheriff Floyd type steal. Idk... I think we can get more doing that than just drafting someone because it's our turn.
0 x
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2018