Why are refs so bad???

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Why are there so many awful calls

A. Total incompetence
9
53%
B. NFL isn’t trying to pick winners but wants to keep games close and make them as exciting as possible to increase ratings
3
18%
C. NFL picks winners and losers to create favored matchups in best markups, favored franchises etc
3
18%
D. Gambling- Mafia owns some refs to call in lucrative favors as needed
2
12%
 
Total votes: 17

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PurpleMustReign
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:55 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:29 pm
The other factor is players are faster and stronger now. That makes the speed and complexity of the game much greater. Teams run so much misdirection plays on offense, disguised blitzes on defense, etc, it's a lot to keep track of in real time.

It's easy to see a mistake when the camera is in perfect position, zoomed in to 10% of the field, and playing at 1/6th speed.

Maybe calls will become challengeable but my fear is they go too far and make an already slow commercial heavy game even worse. It will just be another excuse to plug in even more TV timeouts.
I hate it when they interrupt the commercials with a football game.
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Raz
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by Raz » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:35 pm

Honestly I think they do a good job they are for the most part older guys who do it part time .
IMHO they should go to two more officials on the field get rid of replay all together make pass interference a 15 yard penalty and take the automatic first down of defensive holding.
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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:36 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:29 pm
The other factor is players are faster and stronger now. That makes the speed and complexity of the game much greater. Teams run so much misdirection plays on offense, disguised blitzes on defense, etc, it's a lot to keep track of in real time.

It's easy to see a mistake when the camera is in perfect position, zoomed in to 10% of the field, and playing at 1/6th speed.

Maybe calls will become challengeable but my fear is they go too far and make an already slow commercial heavy game even worse. It will just be another excuse to plug in even more TV timeouts.
I think it would be OK if they kept it within the same challenge/booth review system. No more timeouts. No extra challenges. Just more ways a coach could use his challenges.
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:01 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:06 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:05 pm


Good post. I feel the same way. I don’t think anything is fixed although the crap with Brady just seems odd to me. But these rules are so hit or miss now. The whole roughing the passer rules early on that they completely got away from. Pass interference is the most inconsistent call out there. Almost once a game a special teams gets a penalty for illegal double team block (do ST coordinators not understand the rule or are the refs inconsistent with it), the lowering of the head when carrying the ball is hardly ever called now compared to early on, etc. The NFL loves to implement rules and then when everyone realizes how dumb they are and that they are costing teams games, they stop making the call halfway through the season
Am I the only one who thought the rules about what a catch is were clearer last year? During the AFC game, I thought the pass to Hogan (his one handed catch) should have been incomplete. It looked like he had his hand on the ball hut not under it. But it was really close.
Then Steratore was explaining why he thought it was complete and I was more confused than I was before he explained it.
Yes that was another one I forgot to mention. Another rule that is wildly inconsistent. When I see replays like that now, I truly have no idea what the ref is going to end up calling because it's so unclear now. Before, you knew if it was a catch or not. Now, I dont have a clue
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Cliff
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by Cliff » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:04 am

S197 wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:29 pm
The other factor is players are faster and stronger now. That makes the speed and complexity of the game much greater. Teams run so much misdirection plays on offense, disguised blitzes on defense, etc, it's a lot to keep track of in real time.

It's easy to see a mistake when the camera is in perfect position, zoomed in to 10% of the field, and playing at 1/6th speed.

Maybe calls will become challengeable but my fear is they go too far and make an already slow commercial heavy game even worse. It will just be another excuse to plug in even more TV timeouts.
If only the refs had access to the kind of advanced technology that we fans have. Within seconds after a play we can see that zoomed in, slowed down view and come to an easy conclusion as a layman. They can have officials in the booth watching constantly, helping the refs on the ground via earpiece when they have to huddle up, etc.

It's a choice to not use the technology and one of the only things that make me think the refs intentionally make or don't make calls in some cases. They aren't implementing easy fixes to these kinds of problems and so they have ready made excuses when they get it wrong. "The refs are only part timers so they're actually doing a great job!" - easy fix, make them full time. "It's hard to get the calls right in real time" - so don't. Let the refs constantly use reply in the booth and rely those calls to the field for better accuracy.
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by mansquatch » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:53 am

S197 wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:29 pm
The other factor is players are faster and stronger now. That makes the speed and complexity of the game much greater. Teams run so much misdirection plays on offense, disguised blitzes on defense, etc, it's a lot to keep track of in real time.

It's easy to see a mistake when the camera is in perfect position, zoomed in to 10% of the field, and playing at 1/6th speed.

Maybe calls will become challengeable but my fear is they go too far and make an already slow commercial heavy game even worse. It will just be another excuse to plug in even more TV timeouts.
I think they are at the limit as to how long the games can be. Maybe they could add 15 minutes? I don't know. If they get much longer they run the risk of not being able to have 3 game time slots on Sundays. Thursday Night Football is also a questionable product. I suppose they could eat into the time after the 3:15 game, but before the 7:15 game.

I would like to see a scenario where calls can be challenged or expand replay to getting the calls right. At the moment there are things that go on in games where calls are missed almost all of the time. (Offensive Holding, Facemasks, etc.) It feels like every game or every other game at one point you hear "Team X got away with one there." Then again, that is part of sports.

Overall, I think they need less rules, but I that is counter to the trend of the league.
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Husker Vike
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by Husker Vike » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:45 pm

I think that pass interference, defensive holding and roughing the QB should be able to to at least be reviewed by using a challenge flag,way to many games are decided by these judgement calls.
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by mansquatch » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:34 am

The other issue is the severity of punishment. PI can be a 40+ yard penalty. Roughing the Passer is 15 yards AND an automatic first down. The NFL is in a conundrum a bit on the PI and defensive holding since if they do not reward the automatic first down then there is an incentive to commit the foul. IE if you get burned deep, commit PI to avoid the big play. However, this happens today in the current framework. If you get burned deep inside the 5, it is worth taking the foul and giving your defense a shot to hold them to 3.

I'm not sure the holding / illegal contact should be an automatic first down. That seems excessive. Maybe just a 5 or 10 yard penalty and call it good.

The Roughing the Passer is just out of line. It should be just 15 yards or 5 yards and automatic first down.

Also, I think they should look at 15 yard penalties in general. You take a touch back and you start at the 25. Most reasonable field goal kickers can make a kick fro the 35 yard line. (A 50 yard field goal.) That basically means an offense needs to gain 40 yards to be within scoring range. A penalty that eats up 3/8 of that distance is extremely punishing IMO.

The again, the NFL wants to be ruled by offenses, so they might not care.
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S197
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by S197 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:18 pm

I'd like to start with personal fouls. So roughing the passer, kicker, late hits, unsportsmanlike, facemask etc.

It fits the narrative of making a safer game and I think a lot of that happens so fast it's hard to catch or you see things that didn't happen.

If they open it up to holding and PI, there will a challenge on every play. I think it will slow the game down too much and accomplish little as those calls are largely subjective. Yes, sometimes it's obvious like with the Saints or the phantom call on Leber but other times it's not as clear cut.
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by PurpleMustReign » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:26 pm

S197 wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:18 pm
I'd like to start with personal fouls. So roughing the passer, kicker, late hits, unsportsmanlike, facemask etc.

It fits the narrative of making a safer game and I think a lot of that happens so fast it's hard to catch or you see things that didn't happen.

If they open it up to holding and PI, there will a challenge on every play. I think it will slow the game down too much and accomplish little as those calls are largely subjective. Yes, sometimes it's obvious like with the Saints or the phantom call on Leber but other times it's not as clear cut.
No matter what the scope, it wouldn't slow the game down at all if the system is the same (2+ challenges per team).
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PurpleMustReign
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by PurpleMustReign » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:27 pm

Like I said before though, I hope nothing changes. It will just cause lore confusion and anger... Let the refs use the same rules for a few seasons and see if things smooth out.,
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