Why are refs so bad???

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Why are there so many awful calls

A. Total incompetence
9
53%
B. NFL isn’t trying to pick winners but wants to keep games close and make them as exciting as possible to increase ratings
3
18%
C. NFL picks winners and losers to create favored matchups in best markups, favored franchises etc
3
18%
D. Gambling- Mafia owns some refs to call in lucrative favors as needed
2
12%
 
Total votes: 17

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VikingPaul73
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Why are refs so bad???

Post by VikingPaul73 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:57 am

Ok we all know the refs in the NFL have gone from bad to worse. But why? Is it just incompetence or something more nefarious? Let’s take a poll
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PurpleMustReign
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:33 am

You need an "other" option 😜

I think the rules are too complicated for the number of officials they have on the field. You are asking them to make lightning quick decisions on many rules that are so subjective and have so many caveats that I am surprised they are able to do as good of a job as therly are.
There has also been a lot of turnover (six referees have retired in the past two seasons).
I'm not trying to give them a pass, but when you look at some of the rules it makes sense that they have issues.
This is for a totally different subjwct/discussion but you touched on it above. I truly believe Goodell is scripting storyline during the season. It crossed my mind last season when the two teams with the lost patriotic logos made the Super Bowl just when they happened to have the National Anthem fiasco. It was confirmed in week 1 when Aaron Rodgers was CARTED OFF the field and returned. Who gets carted off the field and comes back?
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by Mothman » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:03 am

It's possible there's something insidious or conspiratorial going on but I think it's probably just human error but I wouldn't use a word as strong as "incompetence" because the refs actually get a lot right. Some plays happen very quickly and it can be difficult to make the correct judgment in real time. The angle of view makes a difference. Where the officials eyes happen to be focused at any given time makes a difference. Mistakes are inevitably going to be made.

To me, the bigger issue is replay. I've been critical of the NFL's current system for years. It's a band-aid intended to placate people, not a genuine effort to make sure games are called correctly and critical missed calls don't impact game outcomes. If it was the latter, they wouldn't be using a challenge flag system and even judgment calls like PI would be reviewable and could be overturned when the evidence is truly obvious.

A more comprehensive replay system wouldn't eliminate human error and it could have drawbacks too (over use could make games too long, refs on the field might become less decisive, and more worried about being second-guessed, etc.) but the league needs to decide if they're going to use the technology to actually get calls right or stay with the current system.
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by w_huisman » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:46 pm

Without reading other responses to see if anybody else has mentioned...

I don't think the refs are any worse now than they were 20-30 years ago. I just think the rules have gotten more complicated leading to more mistakes, and TV cameras/coverage has gotten so much better that none of the mistakes are ever missed.

These two reasons certainly account for a significant percentage of the perceived falloff in refereeing quality, IMO.
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:05 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:33 am
You need an "other" option 😜

I think the rules are too complicated for the number of officials they have on the field. You are asking them to make lightning quick decisions on many rules that are so subjective and have so many caveats that I am surprised they are able to do as good of a job as therly are.
There has also been a lot of turnover (six referees have retired in the past two seasons).
I'm not trying to give them a pass, but when you look at some of the rules it makes sense that they have issues.
This is for a totally different subjwct/discussion but you touched on it above. I truly believe Goodell is scripting storyline during the season. It crossed my mind last season when the two teams with the lost patriotic logos made the Super Bowl just when they happened to have the National Anthem fiasco. It was confirmed in week 1 when Aaron Rodgers was CARTED OFF the field and returned. Who gets carted off the field and comes back?
Good post. I feel the same way. I don’t think anything is fixed although the crap with Brady just seems odd to me. But these rules are so hit or miss now. The whole roughing the passer rules early on that they completely got away from. Pass interference is the most inconsistent call out there. Almost once a game a special teams gets a penalty for illegal double team block (do ST coordinators not understand the rule or are the refs inconsistent with it), the lowering of the head when carrying the ball is hardly ever called now compared to early on, etc. The NFL loves to implement rules and then when everyone realizes how dumb they are and that they are costing teams games, they stop making the call halfway through the season
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by mansquatch » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:18 pm

I referenced this in the other thread, but basically the fact that the networks are now having former officials on staff to help interpret the NFL rule book is indicative of a larger problem. The point made above about the speed of the game and the requirement to make split second calls against a rule book that is complex and quite often unclear makes it obvious that there is an issue.

Personally, I think the NFL has made a mistake playing to the backlash they received over the violence of the game a few years back. In their quest for market dominance, specifically the female market, they are now making decisions that go against some of their core fanbase in an effort to recruit other fans. Ultimately this means changing the game. (At the expense of Defense) On top of this, they have fully embraced Fantasy Football, which again puts greater focus on offensive stats. This provides an additional institutional bias towards offense vs. Defense.

Lastly, we've seen the league be dominated by four or five elite QBs over the past 20 years. This was rather unprecedented when you consider that in the 90s it was more about dynasty teams. Obviously the emergence of BB has also skewed things, but let us not forget that his early SB wins were more about defensive ingenuity than offensive firepower. This has lead the league to covet QBs and along with the media pressure, driven it to protect them.

To be honest, the protection of QBs is silly. Brady has missed most of one season in his entire career, most of which was without the silly rules we have today. Peyton Manning was similar in that he only missed an entire season I believe once. (the year they drafted Luck.) I do not think Brees has missed any significant time in New Orleans. I think he did miss some time with the Chargers. Rothlisburger hasn't missed too much time either. Favre was notorious for not missing games. Even ARog has only missed time in recent years as he has aged and his body has not been able to support his physical style of play. The most recent injury lead to the stupid "Rogers Rule" that caused all the obnoxious penalties this season. (Oh the irony...) Yet the league thinls we need more rules to protect these QBs.

I'm not sure where it will all end. Outside of Mahomes there really isn't that guy coming into the ranks of the NFL that is in the same league as the Brady, Brees. Big Ben, and Manning class of players. AROG looked like that guy for most of his career, but he is showing signs of age the past 3 seasons. Beyond this group and Mahomes, who else is there? I think that will change the dynamic unless some new studs emerge.
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Maelstrom88
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by Maelstrom88 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:30 pm

I think at the very least the NFL has darling franchises that they like to see do well. I don't know how far that goes but nothing would surprise me.
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:44 pm

My NFL buddies and I have had many talks about what Masquatch brought up, the situation with having the rules analysts in the booth, or in studio, to cut to for interpretation and opinions. I feel that Pereira and Steratore do a pretty decent job myself. But I truly about puke everytime I hear Dean Blandino criticize an official about bad calls or the decision made by the replay official in the main Replay office.
That guy was absolutely horrible when he was the head of Replay Review for the league. He botched so many replay calls, and he ALWAYS backed the officials controversial calls on the field a gave them a pass, no matter how horrible the call was that they made.
Now that he is a "Network" guy it's a total 180. I've listened to him criticize calls by officials and replay reviews that he would have made and or supported himself. I just hate it when they bring him on for his little ego massage session.
It makes me wish I had a Blandino mute button on my remote, just like I did when I had to suffer the pain of listening to Phil Simms.
Thank you CBS for taking him outta the booth and putting Romo in there. That guy has become the best in the booth already. He is amazing and a blast to listen to.
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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:06 pm

You need still another option.

"The NFL, a $13 billion industry, hires PART-TIME referees."

Get 'em on the full-time payroll. Pay them enough to make it their primary job, 365 days a year. My gosh, guys on the practice squad make a minimum of $7,600 a week. I think the NFL can afford to pay officials enough to draw in full-time talent.
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vikeinmontana
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by vikeinmontana » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:51 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:06 pm
You need still another option.

"The NFL, a $13 billion industry, hires PART-TIME referees."

Get 'em on the full-time payroll. Pay them enough to make it their primary job, 365 days a year. My gosh, guys on the practice squad make a minimum of $7,600 a week. I think the NFL can afford to pay officials enough to draw in full-time talent.
I've always thought this as well.

Not to mention, the game has just evolved so much in the last 20 years. I wouldn't mind having more officials on a crew each game because of this.

Guys are so much bigger, faster, stronger, quicker, etc. Combine that with the new rules aimed to promote safety and it's even harder. Then combine that with the technology we now have where every play can be viewed from any angle at any speed and it's even harder than that!

Then add in the fact that everyone has a phone and can film anything, and can post on countless media outlets, and then we can all chime in our opinions and officials literally have a zero percent chance of not being considered "bad".


I'd like to see steps like you mentioned to hold these guys accountable just like every other coach and player in the sport. But I don't buy the fact that these guys are so bad. They have an incredibly difficult job and I'd say for the most part they do pretty well.
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by Dmizzle0 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:29 pm

I really hate when games are decided by the refs. We have the technology to help them and I believe that we should use it.

Also I figured this would be the appropriate thread to ask this. Do you guys think it was sort of poetic justice seeings how the Saints got eliminated from the last two playoffs?
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:04 pm

Dmizzle0 wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:29 pm
I really hate when games are decided by the refs. We have the technology to help them and I believe that we should use it.

Also I figured this would be the appropriate thread to ask this. Do you guys think it was sort of poetic justice seeings how the Saints got eliminated from the last two playoffs?
To answer your last question, nothing intentional. It is nice to see though.
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:06 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:05 pm
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:33 am
You need an "other" option 😜

I think the rules are too complicated for the number of officials they have on the field. You are asking them to make lightning quick decisions on many rules that are so subjective and have so many caveats that I am surprised they are able to do as good of a job as therly are.
There has also been a lot of turnover (six referees have retired in the past two seasons).
I'm not trying to give them a pass, but when you look at some of the rules it makes sense that they have issues.
This is for a totally different subjwct/discussion but you touched on it above. I truly believe Goodell is scripting storyline during the season. It crossed my mind last season when the two teams with the lost patriotic logos made the Super Bowl just when they happened to have the National Anthem fiasco. It was confirmed in week 1 when Aaron Rodgers was CARTED OFF the field and returned. Who gets carted off the field and comes back?
Good post. I feel the same way. I don’t think anything is fixed although the crap with Brady just seems odd to me. But these rules are so hit or miss now. The whole roughing the passer rules early on that they completely got away from. Pass interference is the most inconsistent call out there. Almost once a game a special teams gets a penalty for illegal double team block (do ST coordinators not understand the rule or are the refs inconsistent with it), the lowering of the head when carrying the ball is hardly ever called now compared to early on, etc. The NFL loves to implement rules and then when everyone realizes how dumb they are and that they are costing teams games, they stop making the call halfway through the season
Am I the only one who thought the rules about what a catch is were clearer last year? During the AFC game, I thought the pass to Hogan (his one handed catch) should have been incomplete. It looked like he had his hand on the ball hut not under it. But it was really close.
Then Steratore was explaining why he thought it was complete and I was more confused than I was before he explained it.
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:35 pm

I would like to make another point. Roger Goodell's fix for these issues has always been new or changed rules. Rodgers gets hurt, new roughing the passer penalty. Controversial catch ruling? Change the rule for like the 5th time in 10 years. Change isn't always the answer, in fact it should almost never be the answer. If you want better officials, like Kapp said, make officials full time, or revamp the rule book. Make it simple. Do you honestly believe the officials are confident in their grasp of the current rulebook?
The fact us, controversy has been in the game since the beginning. You will never get away from it... So why run from it? The Saints had myriad chances to put thst game away, but didn't. The game never should have come down to an officials blown call.
I will be disappointed if Goodell changes rules again because of this.
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Re: Why are refs so bad???

Post by S197 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:29 pm

The other factor is players are faster and stronger now. That makes the speed and complexity of the game much greater. Teams run so much misdirection plays on offense, disguised blitzes on defense, etc, it's a lot to keep track of in real time.

It's easy to see a mistake when the camera is in perfect position, zoomed in to 10% of the field, and playing at 1/6th speed.

Maybe calls will become challengeable but my fear is they go too far and make an already slow commercial heavy game even worse. It will just be another excuse to plug in even more TV timeouts.
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