Vikings looking to retain Priefer

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Mothman
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by Mothman » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:22 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:55 pm
Again, yay stats!

If you can't see the common denominators with our crappy kickers and how he can't figure out their problems, then I can't help you. How many kickers do we have to go through before we realize that something is wrong that no one is fixing?
The question is: what's wrong? I wonder how "fixable" these kickers are in the first place. The Vikings last 4 kickers have been Walsh, Forbath, Carlson and Bailey. Two of them were drafted by Rick Spielman after college years in which they missed quite a few kicks. The other 2 were veterans available during seasons, with all that implies.

Walsh had a great first season but then returned to inconsistency. Carlson had one tough game, the Vikings bailed on him and then he did pretty well in Oakland. Was that because he was coached better or did he just rebound from the GB game? Were the Vikings too impatient with him?

Is Priefer the problem or is the choice of kickers the problem? Was impatience the problem this year? Will Carlson remain consistent with Oakland?

I don't have answers but I think they're good questions. :) Maybe Priefer IS the problem. I just think we should look at these other factors too.
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by Mothman » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:23 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:05 pm
Is his real name Brad or is it Brad because everyone is Brad?
:lol:

I don't know, Brad. You tell me.

– Brad
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by 808vikingsfan » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:53 pm

Mothman wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:22 pm
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:55 pm
Again, yay stats!

If you can't see the common denominators with our crappy kickers and how he can't figure out their problems, then I can't help you. How many kickers do we have to go through before we realize that something is wrong that no one is fixing?
The question is: what's wrong? I wonder how "fixable" these kickers in the first place. The Vikings last 4 kickers have been Walsh, Forbath, Carlson and Bailey. Two of them were drafted by Rick Spielman after college years in which they missed quite a few kicks. The other 2 were veterans available during seasons, with all that implies.

Walsh had a great first season but then returned to inconsistency. Carlson had one tough game, the Vikings bailed on him and then he did pretty well in Oakland. Was that because he was coached better or did he just rebound from the GB game? Were the Vikings too impatient with him?

Is Priefer the problem or is the choice of kickers the problem? Was impatience the problem this year? Will Carlson remain consistent with Oakland?

I don't have answers but I think they're good questions. :) Maybe Priefer IS the problem. I just think we should look at these other factors too.
Was Priefer here back in 98?
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by Mothman » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:27 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:53 pm
Was Priefer here back in 98?
:lol:

He joined the team in 2011.

By the way, regarding Mansquatch's post (which was excellent so thanks!): Cullen Loeffler was with the team through 2014. By that end of that season, which was Walsh's 3rd year, Walsh's FG % had fallen from 92.1% in his rookie season (2012) to 74.3%.
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by S197 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:41 pm

You'd have to think at the very least, ST coach has a major say in personnel. And we've gone through Kluwe, Locke, Quigley, and now on Wile. For Kickers we've gone through Walsh, Forbath, Carlson, and Bailey. That's eight different players with eight different excuses why they're struggling. Both drafted, undrafted, and free agent pickups. Through all of that we can't field a consistent special teams unit. At some point how do you not look at the guy coaching and playing a major role in picking them?

We're not drafting Locke or trading up for Carlson unless that's the guy Priefer wants. Nor are we cutting said guy we just drafted for a coveted free agent without his say. So if these guys have inconsistent histories, injury concerns, etc, that's not a pass for Priefer, that's a failure to properly evaluate. He needs to go.
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by Mothman » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:34 pm

S197 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:41 pm
You'd have to think at the very least, ST coach has a major say in personnel. And we've gone through Kluwe, Locke, Quigley, and now on Wile. For Kickers we've gone through Walsh, Forbath, Carlson, and Bailey. That's eight different players with eight different excuses why they're struggling. Both drafted, undrafted, and free agent pickups. Through all of that we can't field a consistent special teams unit. At some point how do you not look at the guy coaching and playing a major role in picking them?

We're not drafting Locke or trading up for Carlson unless that's the guy Priefer wants. Nor are we cutting said guy we just drafted for a coveted free agent without his say. So if these guys have inconsistent histories, injury concerns, etc, that's not a pass for Priefer, that's a failure to properly evaluate. He needs to go.
Priefer definitely has a role to play but I wonder what, specifically, he is asked to evaluate when he works out a prospective kicker or punter. Regardless of his role in evaluating players, ultimately, these choices to sign, draft and cut kickers and punters are up to Rick Spielman and/or the HC. The former has a scouting department to help him evaluate players and he's in a position to simply say no if he disagrees with Priefer's take. The buck stops with the people actually making the final choices, no?

I think we should at least acknowledge that kicker and punter tend to be difficult positions to fill with consistent, reliable players. That's why when teams find a really good player at either position, they often keep them around for a decade or more. Players like Forbath, Bailey and Quigley (who was on his 6th NFL team) were unlikely long term solutions in the first place. Carlson barely had a cup of coffee with the team before they gave up on him.
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:16 pm

Mothman wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:34 pm
S197 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:41 pm
You'd have to think at the very least, ST coach has a major say in personnel. And we've gone through Kluwe, Locke, Quigley, and now on Wile. For Kickers we've gone through Walsh, Forbath, Carlson, and Bailey. That's eight different players with eight different excuses why they're struggling. Both drafted, undrafted, and free agent pickups. Through all of that we can't field a consistent special teams unit. At some point how do you not look at the guy coaching and playing a major role in picking them?

We're not drafting Locke or trading up for Carlson unless that's the guy Priefer wants. Nor are we cutting said guy we just drafted for a coveted free agent without his say. So if these guys have inconsistent histories, injury concerns, etc, that's not a pass for Priefer, that's a failure to properly evaluate. He needs to go.
Priefer definitely has a role to play but I wonder what, specifically, he is asked to evaluate when he works out a prospective kicker or punter. Regardless of his role in evaluating players, ultimately, these choices to sign, draft and cut kickers and punters are up to Rick Spielman and/or the HC. The former has a scouting department to help him evaluate players and he's in a position to simply say no if he disagrees with Priefer's take. The buck stops with the people actually making the final choices, no?

I think we should at least acknowledge that kicker and punter tend to be difficult positions to fill with consistent, reliable players. That's why when teams find a really good player at either position, they often keep them around for a decade or more. Players like Forbath, Bailey and Quigley (who was on his 6th NFL team) were unlikely long term solutions in the first place. Carlson barely had a cup of coffee with the team before they gave up on him.
How can you be upset with the way Zimmer handles some of the HC jobs he has (and which I agree 100% with) and not Priefer for basically the same thing. He isnt all the great on kick or punt coverages either. He did get lucky with Wile, makes me wonder if Zimmer was responsible for this pick.
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by Mothman » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:37 pm

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:16 pm
How can you be upset with the way Zimmer handles some of the HC jobs he has (and which I agree 100% with) and not Priefer for basically the same thing. He isnt all the great on kick or punt coverages either. He did get lucky with Wile, makes me wonder if Zimmer was responsible for this pick.
I don't see it as basically the same thing.

I'm not happy with the placekicking game but I disagree about the coverage units. Overall, they've been solid under Priefer and the return game has been very good, sometimes excellent. The overall quality of the punting hasn't been great but I've seen nothing definitive to suggest Priefer's coaching is the source of the team's kicking issues. I think they probably have more to do with the players themselves. Remember, Walsh came out of college with kicking issues and improved in his first season under Priefer. Forbath significantly improved over his previous NFL season after joining the Vikings. Does that suggest bad coaching?

Carlson had one game (his second) where he missed two long FGs and the first potentially game-winning kick he attempted in the NFL. I see no reason to hang that performance on his coach. Bailey performed at the same level he did the year prior to joining the Vikings and that level of performance is why he was available in week 2. It seems likely that was due to his shortcomings, not Priefer's.

I've already said, I don't care if Priefer stays or goes but despite some issues, I think the overall quality of his ST units has been solid.
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by PurpleMustReign » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:28 pm

Mothman wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:37 pm
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:16 pm
How can you be upset with the way Zimmer handles some of the HC jobs he has (and which I agree 100% with) and not Priefer for basically the same thing. He isnt all the great on kick or punt coverages either. He did get lucky with Wile, makes me wonder if Zimmer was responsible for this pick.
I don't see it as basically the same thing.

I'm not happy with the placekicking game but I disagree about the coverage units. Overall, they've been solid under Priefer and the return game has been very good, sometimes excellent. The overall quality of the punting hasn't been great but I've seen nothing definitive to suggest Priefer's coaching is the source of the team's kicking issues. I think they probably have more to do with the players themselves. Remember, Walsh came out of college with kicking issues and improved in his first season under Priefer. Forbath significantly improved over his previous NFL season after joining the Vikings. Does that suggest bad coaching?

Carlson had one game (his second) where he missed two long FGs and the first potentially game-winning kick he attempted in the NFL. I see no reason to hang that performance on his coach. Bailey performed at the same level he did the year prior to joining the Vikings and that level of performance is why he was available in week 2. It seems likely that was due to his shortcomings, not Priefer's.

I've already said, I don't care if Priefer stays or goes but despite some issues, I think the overall quality of his ST units has been solid.
It seems like Sherels has someone in his face everytime he fields a punt, and when they do try to run a kick back, they get tackled at iike the 15.
Idk... I'm not impressed.
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by Mothman » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:30 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:28 pm
It seems like Sherels has someone in his face everytime he fields a punt, and when they do try to run a kick back, they get tackled at iike the 15.
Idk... I'm not impressed.
I have no problem with the idea of replacing Priefer. It just seems like most of the ST issues people are angry about may have more to do with personnel than coaching so I'm playing devil's advocate here in an effort to get people to think about the main source or sources of the team's issues in this area.
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by UKno1VIKING » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:53 am

mansquatch wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:06 pm


4.) Wile had zero touchbacks as a punter in something like the last 13 games of this season. That is nothing short of incredible.

That because he was repeatedly punting from our own 10 yard line
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by Raz » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:25 pm

There was a nice article about this on the bleacher report today seems there is a long time assistant on the team that has fuddled up things whatever he has done. He is currently a special teams assistant. Might be worth a read I thought it was interesting.
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by Mothman » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:23 pm

Raz wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:25 pm
There was a nice article about this on the bleacher report today seems there is a long time assistant on the team that has fuddled up things whatever he has done. He is currently a special teams assistant. Might be worth a read I thought it was interesting.
I'm guessing they were talking about Ryan Ficken, who has been a Vikings assistant coach going back through several coaching staffs now.

Thanks for the info. I'll look for the article.
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by Cliff » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:39 pm

He doesn't get to pick the kickers but didn't Carlson turn it around on the Raiders and end up having a great season?

Do the Raiders just have that much superior of a snapper and holder? Why does it seem like the longer a kicker is with the Vikings the worse they get?
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Re: Vikings looking to retain Priefer

Post by Mothman » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:58 pm

Cliff wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:39 pm
He doesn't get to pick the kickers but didn't Carlson turn it around on the Raiders and end up having a great season?
He went 16 of 17 in Oakland and hit all his extra points this season (with both teams).
Do the Raiders just have that much superior of a snapper and holder? Why does it seem like the longer a kicker is with the Vikings the worse they get?
Well, Cliff, Carlson was only with the Vikings for 2 regular season games... ;)

As I said, I'm playing devil's advocate here but the majority of NFL kickers who attempted FGs in the 40-49 yard range missed at least one attempt from that range this season. It's not unusual so I think Carlson may have simply missed two long kicks in GB (one in OT) and, after that, succumbed to the pressure of making the third, shorter kick at the end of OT. I'm inclined to think he had a bad game rather than he was so poorly coached that he went 1-4 in MN and then had his game immediately fixed by superior coaching in Oakland. That seems unlikely to me but maybe that's exactly what happened.
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