My Plan to Fix the Vikings

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 37748
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by Mothman » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:41 pm

I deleted some childish bickering and edited a post that contained profanity directed at another board member.

Please make an actual effort to treat each other with respect.
1 x

User avatar
PurpleMustReign
Starting Wide Receiver
Posts: 18911
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Location: Crystal, MN

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by PurpleMustReign » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:22 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:19 pm
my biggest concern with Cousins isn't his contract, his lack of mobility or anything with ANY stat

my concern is that he's a choker. That he folds in prime time games. That he panics under pressure. That he will never come through in the clutch.

Seriously, 1:30 remaining, the Vikings get the ball down 4 at their own 25 in a Playoff game. Be honest......would any of you even have a shred of confidence that Kirk Freaking Cousins would lead us to victory??

I would not.

next 2 years are a total 8-8 waste. then cousins is gone, Zimmer is gone, and hopefully Slicky Ricky is gone. then the rebuild.

So, IF the rebuild goes well, at least 4 years until there is any hope of playoff success. Sad. Bears are the class of the division for the next 3-5 years. :wallbang: :wallbang:
Plus on that last drive he kept checking down and throwing it in bounds. Like... Who cares if you throw an INT then, throw the ball downfield. Be a man for God's sake.
0 x
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2018

User avatar
PurpleKoolaid
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8512
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:52 pm

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:58 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:22 pm
VikingPaul73 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:19 pm
my biggest concern with Cousins isn't his contract, his lack of mobility or anything with ANY stat

my concern is that he's a choker. That he folds in prime time games. That he panics under pressure. That he will never come through in the clutch.

Seriously, 1:30 remaining, the Vikings get the ball down 4 at their own 25 in a Playoff game. Be honest......would any of you even have a shred of confidence that Kirk Freaking Cousins would lead us to victory??

I would not.

next 2 years are a total 8-8 waste. then cousins is gone, Zimmer is gone, and hopefully Slicky Ricky is gone. then the rebuild.

So, IF the rebuild goes well, at least 4 years until there is any hope of playoff success. Sad. Bears are the class of the division for the next 3-5 years. :wallbang: :wallbang:
Plus on that last drive he kept checking down and throwing it in bounds. Like... Who cares if you throw an INT then, throw the ball downfield. Be a man for God's sake.
He is a scarred QB. Thats what they do. Thats why I am pretty sure we just wasted 3 more years, and we have Speilman to find another QB....which is never good.
0 x

User avatar
VikingPaul73
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2936
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:07 pm

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by VikingPaul73 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:24 am

http://walterfootball.com/draft2019_1.php

Minnesota Vikings: Jonah Williams, OT, Alabama
image: http://walterfootball.com/college/Alabama_logo.gif


The Vikings overpaid for Kirk Cousins, so now they have to transition from a defensive team to an offensive one. An improved offensive line will allow Cousins to survive until Week 17, when he can once again choke with a playoff bid on the line.

Jonah Williams had a great freshman year as Alabama's right tackle. He's now manning the blind side with Cam Robinson gone. Charlie Campbell spoke to sources who believe Williams will be taken in the second half of the opening round
:point:
0 x

User avatar
Texas Vike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3761
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:52 am

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by Texas Vike » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:26 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:24 am
http://walterfootball.com/draft2019_1.php

Minnesota Vikings: Jonah Williams, OT, Alabama
image: http://walterfootball.com/college/Alabama_logo.gif


The Vikings overpaid for Kirk Cousins, so now they have to transition from a defensive team to an offensive one. An improved offensive line will allow Cousins to survive until Week 17, when he can once again choke with a playoff bid on the line.

Jonah Williams had a great freshman year as Alabama's right tackle. He's now manning the blind side with Cam Robinson gone. Charlie Campbell spoke to sources who believe Williams will be taken in the second half of the opening round
:point:
Ouch.
0 x

User avatar
PurpleMustReign
Starting Wide Receiver
Posts: 18911
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Location: Crystal, MN

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by PurpleMustReign » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:52 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:24 am
http://walterfootball.com/draft2019_1.php

Minnesota Vikings: Jonah Williams, OT, Alabama
image: http://walterfootball.com/college/Alabama_logo.gif


The Vikings overpaid for Kirk Cousins, so now they have to transition from a defensive team to an offensive one. An improved offensive line will allow Cousins to survive until Week 17, when he can once again choke with a playoff bid on the line.

Jonah Williams had a great freshman year as Alabama's right tackle. He's now manning the blind side with Cam Robinson gone. Charlie Campbell spoke to sources who believe Williams will be taken in the second half of the opening round
:point:
Ha!
0 x
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2018

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5813
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:50 pm

VikingPaul73 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:24 am
http://walterfootball.com/draft2019_1.php

Minnesota Vikings: Jonah Williams, OT, Alabama
image: http://walterfootball.com/college/Alabama_logo.gif


The Vikings overpaid for Kirk Cousins, so now they have to transition from a defensive team to an offensive one. An improved offensive line will allow Cousins to survive until Week 17, when he can once again choke with a playoff bid on the line.

Jonah Williams had a great freshman year as Alabama's right tackle. He's now manning the blind side with Cam Robinson gone. Charlie Campbell spoke to sources who believe Williams will be taken in the second half of the opening round
:point:
Listening to an opinion on walter football is about as reliable as listening to something on Viking Age lol
0 x
Image

YikesVikes
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 679
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by YikesVikes » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:17 pm

Kirk needs to play better. I know he will if he is given a cleaner pocket. He also needs to take off and run a bit more. I know it isn't a part of his game but he is quicker than he is given credit for. One of our best games this season saw him picking up easy 3rd and 5s which made passing and running the ball easier. The offense needs more bootlegs and rollouts. Having him sit behind this line is foolish.
1 x

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11547
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by S197 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:53 pm

Alaskan wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:53 am
http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2019/ ... sive-line/

Some interesting info in this article.

I don’t necessarily agree with Coller on drafting skill position over OL. I think they should follow there board and draft BPA.

The o line problems are league problem(CBA). They need more practice time for these young o linemen. They are just nowhere near ready coming out of college, generally speaking.

There is just no way the Vikes are going to put together a mauler o line line some fans are pounding there fist on the the table for. It’s just unrealistic. They could possibly put together something line they had in 2017 under Shurmur and Sparano. They maximized the skill sets of that group. They need to get the right coaches and play callers and put together a system and scheme that compliments the skills of their linemen. That’s about the best we as fans can hope for in the short term.

Problem with that is we still have Curt “the statue” Cousins as our QB who needs elite lineman and skill players all the way down the depth chart to be successful. I think he will go down as one of the most bozo signings in Viking history.
Seattle and Indy turned horrid Olines into pretty good ones quickly and made it to the postseason based on those changes. Our drafting strategy is the definition of insanity, we say BPA every year and every year the OL needs to be fixed. How long has it been, 10 years? Ryan Cook, Anthony Herrera, Artis Hicks, TJ Clemmings, Alex Boone, Tom Compton... we need to stop the madness. We don't need the best player available if he's going to be the backup behind a competent starter or part of a unit with enough talent as it is. We have an absolute glaring problem that needs to be addressed and we're in a position where we can reach a little. This isn't a rebuilding team, it's a team that's window I see rapidly closing.
1 x

User avatar
Mothman
Defensive Tackle
Posts: 37748
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by Mothman » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:45 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Seattle and Indy turned horrid Olines into pretty good ones quickly and made it to the postseason based on those changes. Our drafting strategy is the definition of insanity, we say BPA every year and every year the OL needs to be fixed. How long has it been, 10 years? Ryan Cook, Anthony Herrera, Artis Hicks, TJ Clemmings, Alex Boone, Tom Compton... we need to stop the madness. We don't need the best player available if he's going to be the backup behind a competent starter or part of a unit with enough talent as it is. We have an absolute glaring problem that needs to be addressed and we're in a position where we can reach a little. This isn't a rebuilding team, it's a team that's window I see rapidly closing.
Well said. That gets to what I've always considered a fundamental difference of opinion about the purpose of the draft. I'm tempted to call it a misunderstanding but it's probably more of a philosophical difference. Anyway, many fans, pundits, analysts and even teams and GMs seem to see the draft primarily as an exercise in talent acquisition. Player ratings are carefully scrutinized and debates rage every year about whether a player was selected too soon, too late, should have gone 6 picks later, etc. Talent is the focus and that's reflected to some extent in "best player available" philosophy.

As I see it, talent acquisition is a key aspect of the draft but it's not the purpose of the draft. The primary purpose of the draft is team-building. That obviously manifests as the acquisition of talent but it's not a contest to see who gets the best-ranked or most gifted player at their slot in each round every spring. Selecting the most talented player available is only the best choice if that selection is a wise move in the context of a comprehensive team-building strategy because ultimately, the goal is to have the best team, not just the most talent (and they aren't quite the same thing).

I hope that made sense. :)
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5813
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:27 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Alaskan wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:53 am
http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2019/ ... sive-line/

Some interesting info in this article.

I don’t necessarily agree with Coller on drafting skill position over OL. I think they should follow there board and draft BPA.

The o line problems are league problem(CBA). They need more practice time for these young o linemen. They are just nowhere near ready coming out of college, generally speaking.

There is just no way the Vikes are going to put together a mauler o line line some fans are pounding there fist on the the table for. It’s just unrealistic. They could possibly put together something line they had in 2017 under Shurmur and Sparano. They maximized the skill sets of that group. They need to get the right coaches and play callers and put together a system and scheme that compliments the skills of their linemen. That’s about the best we as fans can hope for in the short term.

Problem with that is we still have Curt “the statue” Cousins as our QB who needs elite lineman and skill players all the way down the depth chart to be successful. I think he will go down as one of the most bozo signings in Viking history.
Seattle and Indy turned horrid Olines into pretty good ones quickly and made it to the postseason based on those changes. Our drafting strategy is the definition of insanity, we say BPA every year and every year the OL needs to be fixed. How long has it been, 10 years? Ryan Cook, Anthony Herrera, Artis Hicks, TJ Clemmings, Alex Boone, Tom Compton... we need to stop the madness. We don't need the best player available if he's going to be the backup behind a competent starter or part of a unit with enough talent as it is. We have an absolute glaring problem that needs to be addressed and we're in a position where we can reach a little. This isn't a rebuilding team, it's a team that's window I see rapidly closing.
Indy yes. Seattle, again, does not have a good offensive line. When it comes to run blocking, yeah. They are a bunch of strong, slow footed maulers. But they are one of the worst pass blocking OLs in the nfl. Just as bad or worse than ours. Their adjusted sack rate was 2nd to last in the entire nfl. And Russell Wilson barely throws the ball. That alone says enough
0 x
Image

User avatar
PurpleKoolaid
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8512
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:52 pm

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:43 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:27 pm
S197 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:53 pm


Seattle and Indy turned horrid Olines into pretty good ones quickly and made it to the postseason based on those changes. Our drafting strategy is the definition of insanity, we say BPA every year and every year the OL needs to be fixed. How long has it been, 10 years? Ryan Cook, Anthony Herrera, Artis Hicks, TJ Clemmings, Alex Boone, Tom Compton... we need to stop the madness. We don't need the best player available if he's going to be the backup behind a competent starter or part of a unit with enough talent as it is. We have an absolute glaring problem that needs to be addressed and we're in a position where we can reach a little. This isn't a rebuilding team, it's a team that's window I see rapidly closing.
Indy yes. Seattle, again, does not have a good offensive line. When it comes to run blocking, yeah. They are a bunch of strong, slow footed maulers. But they are one of the worst pass blocking OLs in the nfl. Just as bad or worse than ours. Their adjusted sack rate was 2nd to last in the entire nfl. And Russell Wilson barely throws the ball. That alone says enough
How many time did the Vikes sack Wilson when we played them, with the horrible Oline you think they have?
0 x

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11547
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by S197 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:30 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:27 pm
S197 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:53 pm


Seattle and Indy turned horrid Olines into pretty good ones quickly and made it to the postseason based on those changes. Our drafting strategy is the definition of insanity, we say BPA every year and every year the OL needs to be fixed. How long has it been, 10 years? Ryan Cook, Anthony Herrera, Artis Hicks, TJ Clemmings, Alex Boone, Tom Compton... we need to stop the madness. We don't need the best player available if he's going to be the backup behind a competent starter or part of a unit with enough talent as it is. We have an absolute glaring problem that needs to be addressed and we're in a position where we can reach a little. This isn't a rebuilding team, it's a team that's window I see rapidly closing.
Indy yes. Seattle, again, does not have a good offensive line. When it comes to run blocking, yeah. They are a bunch of strong, slow footed maulers. But they are one of the worst pass blocking OLs in the nfl. Just as bad or worse than ours. Their adjusted sack rate was 2nd to last in the entire nfl. And Russell Wilson barely throws the ball. That alone says enough
Seattle still went from a horrid line to something serviceable enough to make the playoffs. Even if you feel their line is terrible at pass protection, at least they could run block. Whereas our line couldn't do either, which was a major step backwards from last year.

You can even look at a team like the Saints. They had three losing seasons in a row. People were saying Brees was washed up, SP may have been figured out/isn't as great a coach as once thought, etc. Now all of a sudden they have a running game and the offense is re-energized.

Even if you can't fix an OL in a season, it's been forever since there's been any sort of dedication to the OL. Reiff/Remmers were brought in after an absolute horrid year of OL play, granted a lot due to injury, but it was similar to the QB situation where nothing was done until absolutely forced into a corner. Hopefully O'Neill pans out as that's one less piece to look for but this team needs to stop bringing in late round guards and thinking it will work out. It's been the strategy for so long and it simply has not worked.
0 x

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11547
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by S197 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:43 pm

Mothman wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:45 pm
S197 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Seattle and Indy turned horrid Olines into pretty good ones quickly and made it to the postseason based on those changes. Our drafting strategy is the definition of insanity, we say BPA every year and every year the OL needs to be fixed. How long has it been, 10 years? Ryan Cook, Anthony Herrera, Artis Hicks, TJ Clemmings, Alex Boone, Tom Compton... we need to stop the madness. We don't need the best player available if he's going to be the backup behind a competent starter or part of a unit with enough talent as it is. We have an absolute glaring problem that needs to be addressed and we're in a position where we can reach a little. This isn't a rebuilding team, it's a team that's window I see rapidly closing.
Well said. That gets to what I've always considered a fundamental difference of opinion about the purpose of the draft. I'm tempted to call it a misunderstanding but it's probably more of a philosophical difference. Anyway, many fans, pundits, analysts and even teams and GMs seem to see the draft primarily as an exercise in talent acquisition. Player ratings are carefully scrutinized and debates rage every year about whether a player was selected too soon, too late, should have gone 6 picks later, etc. Talent is the focus and that's reflected to some extent in "best player available" philosophy.

As I see it, talent acquisition is a key aspect of the draft but it's not the purpose of the draft. The primary purpose of the draft is team-building. That obviously manifests as the acquisition of talent but it's not a contest to see who gets the best-ranked or most gifted player at their slot in each round every spring. Selecting the most talented player available is only the best choice if that selection is a wise move in the context of a comprehensive team-building strategy because ultimately, the goal is to have the best team, not just the most talent (and they aren't quite the same thing).

I hope that made sense. :)
It makes sense.

My guess is a draft board has to be organized into tiers. I don't think there's a single guy head and shoulders above everyone else unless it's a generational type player like a Joe Thomas, Max Unger, Quentin Nelson type of guy. So you may have 3 tier 1 guys, 4 tier 2, etc. I think when we were up to draft, we had a lot of guards in that top tier and maybe only Hughes in the top tier for corners. So they pick Hughes and assume someone in that guard tier drops. But there's a major run on guards leaving them more or less screwed and having to change strategy.

The mistake in this respect was taking such a gamble knowing what was on the line. You just gave a guy $84M fully guaranteed and you're going to play chances on passing a top tier guard in hopes of one falling, all so you can grab a depth corner? I think there was a lot of arrogance going into this draft and Spielman just flat out got burned. Better to take the pick of the litter at guard knowing you fill an immediate need rather than trying to get cute.

And I don't think I'm speaking in hindsight either, a lot of us were very surprised on draft day just as much as today.
1 x

User avatar
808vikingsfan
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3565
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:45 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: My Plan to Fix the Vikings

Post by 808vikingsfan » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:17 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Alaskan wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:53 am
http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2019/ ... sive-line/

Some interesting info in this article.

I don’t necessarily agree with Coller on drafting skill position over OL. I think they should follow there board and draft BPA.

The o line problems are league problem(CBA). They need more practice time for these young o linemen. They are just nowhere near ready coming out of college, generally speaking.

There is just no way the Vikes are going to put together a mauler o line line some fans are pounding there fist on the the table for. It’s just unrealistic. They could possibly put together something line they had in 2017 under Shurmur and Sparano. They maximized the skill sets of that group. They need to get the right coaches and play callers and put together a system and scheme that compliments the skills of their linemen. That’s about the best we as fans can hope for in the short term.

Problem with that is we still have Curt “the statue” Cousins as our QB who needs elite lineman and skill players all the way down the depth chart to be successful. I think he will go down as one of the most bozo signings in Viking history.
Seattle and Indy turned horrid Olines into pretty good ones quickly and made it to the postseason based on those changes. Our drafting strategy is the definition of insanity, we say BPA every year and every year the OL needs to be fixed. How long has it been, 10 years? Ryan Cook, Anthony Herrera, Artis Hicks, TJ Clemmings, Alex Boone, Tom Compton... we need to stop the madness. We don't need the best player available if he's going to be the backup behind a competent starter or part of a unit with enough talent as it is. We have an absolute glaring problem that needs to be addressed and we're in a position where we can reach a little. This isn't a rebuilding team, it's a team that's window I see rapidly closing.
To be fair, both SEA and INDY have very good, mobile Qbs. Makes the OL look better and can open both running and passing game.
0 x
Joined: Aug 2006
Deleted: Sept 12 2014
Reborn: Sept 17 2014