Maybe now you'll believe

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Spiny Norman
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Maybe now you'll believe

Post by Spiny Norman » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:46 am

Been saying this for years, said it after last season, the way to build a year-on-year NFL team is to build the offensive line. Every season, if you are lucky/rich enough to own an NFL team, your first draft pick has to be a O-Lineman. Hey, i got suckered into thinking Herschel Walker was the single missing piece, along with Diamond and the rest of delirious Viking Nation. And i agreed that a mobile mountain QB like The Inferno was the Vikings' single missing piece. At the time.

But then i saw what the Denver Broncos did a dozen years ago, a longterm plan that did actually get them a SB. It was devious, but in the crafty and inventive way, not the Patriots way. They started with an OL. That made shiny unicorn sparkles around all of their RBs, so when it came time to free agency, the Denver 2nd and 4th-string RBs looked like rough diamonds, darn good trade bait.

And trade them they did. Kept Terrel Owens, but the rest of the RB corps was in and out of Mile High as fast as they could make them look good and slap a pricetag on their butt. With an investment-quality OL, you can make any RB look like a reborn Gayle Sayers.

But it goes deeper than that, an overbearing OL doesn't just help your franchise on the free agency market, but allows any QB's odd quirks to show themselves faster. Some guy might have phenomenal peripheral vision, another guy might have a pinpoint arm, some other QB could have both, but be plain crappy at the longball. With a line made for rushlanes and shotgun blocks, a team gains the luxury of cycling through QB candidates until one clicks with the TEs and RBs and WRs.

Said it after last year's collapse at Philly, now saying it again, the first draft choice of a smart team is an offensive lineman, no matter who is the 'best available player' at that point. The best available player for a first pick is always the most capable OL left on the board. I can phrase it fifty different ways, but i can't make ZyWi believe me.
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Maelstrom88
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Re: Maybe now you'll believe

Post by Maelstrom88 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:55 am

Didn't know Terrel Owens played running back for the Broncos...

:point: JK that was a good post though and I agree. They need to invest heavily into the oline this off-season. If they don't get it after this year they never will.
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Spiny Norman
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Re: Maybe now you'll believe

Post by Spiny Norman » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:21 am

Maelstrom88 wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:55 am
They need to invest heavily into the oline this off-season. If they don't get it after this year they never will.
Dalvin "Deep" Cook did not look bad this year, in fact he looked like an NFL starter on a good team. Just, on so many plays his lanes were folding 1.2 seconds faster than he needed to make a first break. His burst and break are great, but needs just 22 more inches from an unfriendly hand at his break point, to make every break a potential huge gain. Not sure Kirk "Once Removed" Cousins is our answer, but one thing is certain: if he's chased or laid flat he has the same chance as any QB at the NFL level.

Don't say "never will" because Dalvin, Adam, Kirk, Stefon and Kyle are a pro-level nucleus. The whole D is in great shape. It's almost by default, that even an idiot can say that the Vikes' "missing piece" now is on the OL.
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FullWood
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Re: Maybe now you'll believe

Post by FullWood » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:59 am

I look at how the Colts drafted this year. there #1 pick a Guard 2nd pick a stud of a linebacker and 3rd (2nd round right after) another decent Guard turned Tackle. We can do this. I think an OL should def be looked at and monitored closely.
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StumpHunter
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Re: Maybe now you'll believe

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:20 am

Oline wasn't the problem people are making it out to be yesterday. Run blocking they struggled, but Cousins had time to throw.

If your argument is that if the run game is going we don't have to rely on our QB to produce in big games, than yea, go all in on the Oline.
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Texas Vike
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Re: Maybe now you'll believe

Post by Texas Vike » Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:31 am

Most posters on this board have 'believed' for quite some time. We all see that OL is a glaring weak spot, so much so that it's a wonder that Rick Spielman has a job. It's obvious even to all of us armchair GMs and has been for many seasons.
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vikeinmontana
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Re: Maybe now you'll believe

Post by vikeinmontana » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:53 am

Texas Vike wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:31 am
Most posters on this board have 'believed' for quite some time. We all see that OL is a glaring weak spot, so much so that it's a wonder that Rick Spielman has a job. It's obvious even to all of us armchair GMs and has been for many seasons.
I thought that was funny as well. Like it's some kind of breaking news or a secret that our o-line has been just awful for years now. :lol:

I definitely believe it. I believe it every time I watch the vikes play and I believe it when I read hundreds of threads on this board saying the same thing. It's not even fair to criticize the rest of the offense until we address this unit. Dalvin could be the best back in the league but we have no idea. he got hit behind the line on about 90% of his carries this year!

I hope everyone finally believes me now when I say our offensive line isn't good.... :wink:
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allday1991
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Re: Maybe now you'll believe

Post by allday1991 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:13 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:21 am
Maelstrom88 wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:55 am
They need to invest heavily into the oline this off-season. If they don't get it after this year they never will.
Dalvin "Deep" Cook did not look bad this year, in fact he looked like an NFL starter on a good team. Just, on so many plays his lanes were folding 1.2 seconds faster than he needed to make a first break. His burst and break are great, but needs just 22 more inches from an unfriendly hand at his break point, to make every break a potential huge gain. Not sure Kirk "Once Removed" Cousins is our answer, but one thing is certain: if he's chased or laid flat he has the same chance as any QB at the NFL level.

Don't say "never will" because Dalvin, Adam, Kirk, Stefon and Kyle are a pro-level nucleus. The whole D is in great shape. It's almost by default, that even an idiot can say that the Vikes' "missing piece" now is on the OL.
Found a interesting stat on cook. 4 career rushing td 3 fumbles............ more dots pls............... and some ppl had a problem with peterson? This guy has sat the better half of two seasons, has 1:1 td fumble ratio and we are ready to say hes good? Lol take care guys. See you next season!
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PacificNorseWest
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Re: Maybe now you'll believe

Post by PacificNorseWest » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:19 pm

I'm so perplexed by this OP. :lol:

Believe that the Oline is horrible?

Hearken back to a 90's Broncos team?

Terrell Owens?
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halfgiz
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Re: Maybe now you'll believe

Post by halfgiz » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:21 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:20 am
Oline wasn't the problem people are making it out to be yesterday. Run blocking they struggled, but Cousins had time to throw.

If your argument is that if the run game is going we don't have to rely on our QB to produce in big games, than yea, go all in on the Oline.
Compton was horrible at guard, Remmers is a fair Tackle, but he sucks at guard. Elfein I feel wasn't fully recovered. And O'Neil was just learning his position.
But that's just my opinion.
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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Maybe now you'll believe

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:30 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:20 am
Oline wasn't the problem people are making it out to be yesterday. Run blocking they struggled, but Cousins had time to throw.
As Ronald Reagan once said, "There you go again."

Let me preface this by saying two things. 1. I'm supposed to be on break from this board, but my name is Kapp, and I'm a boardaholic. 2. Kirk Cousins did not play well yesterday ... nobody is making that argument, most notably me.

But ... you are talking out your butt if you think Cousins had time to throw against the Bears.

According to PFF, Kirk Cousins was pressured more than he wasn't against the Bears. On 38 dropbacks, he was pressured 21 times and not pressured 17 times. TWENTY-ONE PRESSURES. There are maybe, MAYBE three quarterbacks in the league who can survive, let alone play well in that kind of environment. Their names are Rodgers, Wilson and Watson. That's it.

Our offensive line is historically bad. Even Pat Elflein, who we somehow think is good, gave up 33 pressures on the season. The starting center for the 4-12 Raiders gave up 5. And Elflein was actually not the worst O-lineman on the team. That would be a tie between Remmers and Compton.

Cousins stunk up the joint yesterday. But it was inevitable. The O-line, already the worst in the league, played its worst game of the season.
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PurpleKoolaid
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Re: Maybe now you'll believe

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:49 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:30 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:20 am
Oline wasn't the problem people are making it out to be yesterday. Run blocking they struggled, but Cousins had time to throw.
As Ronald Reagan once said, "There you go again."

Let me preface this by saying two things. 1. I'm supposed to be on break from this board, but my name is Kapp, and I'm a boardaholic. 2. Kirk Cousins did not play well yesterday ... nobody is making that argument, most notably me.

But ... you are talking out your butt if you think Cousins had time to throw against the Bears.

According to PFF, Kirk Cousins was pressured more than he wasn't against the Bears. On 38 dropbacks, he was pressured 21 times and not pressured 17 times. TWENTY-ONE PRESSURES. There are maybe, MAYBE three quarterbacks in the league who can survive, let alone play well in that kind of environment. Their names are Rodgers, Wilson and Watson. That's it.

Our offensive line is historically bad. Even Pat Elflein, who we somehow think is good, gave up 33 pressures on the season. The starting center for the 4-12 Raiders gave up 5. And Elflein was actually not the worst O-lineman on the team. That would be a tie between Remmers and Compton.

Cousins stunk up the joint yesterday. But it was inevitable. The O-line, already the worst in the league, played its worst game of the season.
Thought you were gone for the season?

Again you just have to defend Cousins against those who have blame to place upon him.

He did have time to throw AND he had WIDE FRIGGING OPEN receivers. Just cause he panics cause he is going to get hit every single time he goes back to throw, isnt an excuse. It wasnt for Favre when he was here and had a sh!t Oline (some things Ricky simply doesnt believe in is a good Oline-but lets overpay a losing QB) it wasnt an excuse for Case with basically the same Oline AND being the 3rd string QB. Who you used to love, and now hate, 'cause we got Cousins now. He is getting paid to get hit, and then some. Hes supposed to be a leader, someone who makes things happen. He isnt even close to Case in this regard.

And dont forget about Reiff and O'neil. They both stunk up the place. One being a rockie gets a pass, but Reiff will still be around, cause of ole Ricky boy.
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Mothman
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Re: Maybe now you'll believe

Post by Mothman » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:40 am

Please post without being antagonistic toward one another.

— Your friendly neighborhood moderator
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StumpHunter
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Re: Maybe now you'll believe

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:29 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:30 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:20 am
Oline wasn't the problem people are making it out to be yesterday. Run blocking they struggled, but Cousins had time to throw.
As Ronald Reagan once said, "There you go again."

Let me preface this by saying two things. 1. I'm supposed to be on break from this board, but my name is Kapp, and I'm a boardaholic. 2. Kirk Cousins did not play well yesterday ... nobody is making that argument, most notably me.

But ... you are talking out your butt if you think Cousins had time to throw against the Bears.

According to PFF, Kirk Cousins was pressured more than he wasn't against the Bears. On 38 dropbacks, he was pressured 21 times and not pressured 17 times. TWENTY-ONE PRESSURES. There are maybe, MAYBE three quarterbacks in the league who can survive, let alone play well in that kind of environment. Their names are Rodgers, Wilson and Watson. That's it.

Our offensive line is historically bad. Even Pat Elflein, who we somehow think is good, gave up 33 pressures on the season. The starting center for the 4-12 Raiders gave up 5. And Elflein was actually not the worst O-lineman on the team. That would be a tie between Remmers and Compton.

Cousins stunk up the joint yesterday. But it was inevitable. The O-line, already the worst in the league, played its worst game of the season.
He had 3.11 seconds on average to throw, which was 4th longest in the NFL and nearly a second longer than Trubiskey had. The shortest sack came at 3.7 seconds.

It wasn't a great game by the Oline, but the numbers don't lie. He had time to throw, the longest of any game this season from what I can see, he just couldn't get it done with that time.

A tough pill to swallow I know, but those are the facts. Facts that will continued to be ignored by most fans and the sports media in this town, because it means that even if we fix the line, the odds of us winning a SB with this QB are almost non-existent.
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indianation65
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Re: Maybe now you'll believe

Post by indianation65 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:38 am

The initial post is spot on.

Living in Dallas since '75, I've had my fill of Cowboys fans, but then again, they've got lots of room to brag.

Emmitt Smith is a dang good running back, but without that offensive line he had, there is no way people would ever consider him one of the best backs ever. He can thank B.Sanders for retiring.

Emmitt ran through holes, and racked up yardage because he rarely was tackled/touched until he was 1-3 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. I'm not beating up E.Smith, he was good, very good, so was M.Irvin and Aikman, but the O-line was way better! The men on the line were beasts.

Cousins and Keenum both played with a mediocre to bad O-line, but somehow the Vikes managed last year. Of course, "heartbreak" reared its ugly head once again for the Vikings Nation.

Regardless, constantly working on the fingers and toes is fine, but if the core, the heart, lungs and the "gut" is/are ignored, the body will fail.

Go Vikes!

...wisdom? Heck, I don't know anymore. I'd so frustrated with the O-line, and the coaching I see another simply hoping the teams I hate do NOT win another SB.
I'll be honest, I'm conservative in my life-style, but not when it comes to sports. I want my coaches to motivate their teams to score, score and score some more, whether it's my Vikings, my Mavericks or my Dallas Stars, I want to score MORE than the opponent! IN65
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