Satisfaction

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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Satisfaction

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

PacificNorseWest wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:46 pm I think there is an appearance of satisfaction because Kirk was believed by most to be an upgrade at quarterback and those that appear to be satisfied are mostly just in a state of remaining hopeful that he fulfills the objective we all desired once learning Kirk would be the QB going forward. I don't believe that if the season ends on Sunday or on January 6th, that we can objectively say we are satisfied with the end result, given that Kirk had many inconsistencies along the way that played a big part in Minnesota losing games, resulting in a record that either won't be good enough to get into the playoffs or one not good enough to get them a 1st round bye, equaling what they did last season with Keenum.

Of course, if he plays really well the next few weeks and leads this team back to an NFCCG or better, then the end result can be viewed as satisfaction, but that all still needs to play out.
I think you've given an objective analysis of Kirk Cousins. Allow me to add.

When the Vikings signed Cousins, I was ecstatic. I thought it was a great signing. Still do. A lot of it has to do with intangibles. I believe he's a good leader. Virtually every story from Washington supports that with a very few exceptions, and the vast majority of those came from people who never set foot in the locker room. The Vikings' players seem to love him, and chemistry is good.

As for his play Cousins has given us what I expected. He's accurate, his arm is above average but not a cannon, he's prepared, and he's generally on time. Where he's fallen short, in my opinion, lies in two areas. 1) Turnovers. A quarterback with his experience can't lead the league in turnovers. That HAS to improve. 2) He seems tentative, at times, when things get tough. Not every play, not every series, not every game is going to go as planned. He needs to do a better job of dusting himself off when he gets sacked or his receivers are covered and he can't make a play or whatever.

Here's where I'll give him some slack, however. For 13 games, Kirk Cousins played for an offensive coordinator who wanted nothing to do with running the ball, or with balance. And the truth is, Kirk Cousins is simply not the kind of quarterback who can be called on to throw 50 times a game. Has he had some big games throwing 40-50 times? Sure. But when he has to do that consistently, he falters. He's not a Patrick Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers, who can improvise and play wildly off script play after play. He needs to go through his progressions, choose the correct receiver, throw on time, etc. When you throw 50 times a game, you are GOING to get chased out of the pocket and be forced to improvise a lot more than if you're balanced. Kirk can't thrive in that environment.

Where Cousins CAN thrive is under center. He's really good at play-action. But here's the thing. If you run the ball 14 times, like we did the first time against the Bears, or 13 times, like we did against the Patriots, guess what? Play action means bupkus. Nothing. Fools no one. By abandoning the run, John DeFilippo took away the best part of Kirk's game.

Here's the other thing play-action does. It brings the tight end back into the game. Play-action sucks in linebackers and safeties, giving Rudolph more space in which to work. Rudy isn't a speed guy like Travis Kelce, so he needs some space where he can get in position and use his size and great hands. The past two weeks, you've seen Rudolph more involved in the passing game than he's been all season. And that has resulted in more production from him, and more efficiency from Cousins. Not to mention ... when you make Cousins throw 50 times a game, you make him prone to turnovers. Since Stefanski took over, we've had one turnover in two games. Any of us would take the Vikings playing on an 8-turnover pace for an entire season.

Where does this "balance" thing originate? That's right. From none other than Mike Zimmer. He's been calling for it all year, and JDF simply ignored him.

Now, there has to be some blame assigned for hiring DeFilippo in the first place. That falls squarely on Spielman and Zimmer. And I do think Mike Zimmer spends too much in-game time working with the defense. Those are a legitimate criticisms. But I do think it's unfair to criticize Kirk Cousins when he's been asked to play a style like Aaron Rodgers. It doesn't work, and everybody knew that from the moment we signed him. We all look at the guaranteed money and gasp, but the truth is, Kirk Cousins is a good quarterback. I think he's top-10, but even if you disagree, it's hard to argue against top-15. The market bore that kind of money for a 6-year veteran starting QB with 3 straight 4,000-yard seasons. And the truth is, the Jets offered him more. Silly as it seems, the Vikings got him at a discount at $84 million.

Now for my parting shot. I think the Vikings are going to surprise some people over the next few weeks. I think they're dangerous. Most of you will disagree, but I don't care.

The reason is simple ... they're running the ball.

This O-line ... linemen LOVE to run block. Ask this group, who is not terribly athletic outside of Elflein and O'Neill, to pass block 45 times a game, and they're going to get exposed. Let them grade the road more than a few plays per game, and they can hold their own. They may not dominate, but Dalvin Cook doesn't need that. This young man, I believe, is about to go off. If defenses have to work to stop Dalvin Cook, then Kirk Cousins, Adam Thielen and Stefon Diggs can take advantage. Remember the days of Adrian Peterson, when we had nothing in the passing game to punish teams for loading the box? Those days are over. Get Dalvin going, and this team can go a long way. Their roster is as good as any team in the league. Their defense travels.

The key is Cook. Feature him, and we can beat anybody.
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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Satisfaction

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

Mothman wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:20 am I'm not sure where you perceive hatred for Mike zimmer on the board. Maybe I've just missed some comments.
Or entire threads. Like the "Should the Vikings fire Mike Zimmer?" thread. :whistle:
Mothman wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:20 amRegarding the board: I want this thread to be about the team, not the board, but I’ll put my mod hat on and try to address this once:

The board has been in this same basic situation before and it's been worse. As I’ve said many times, mediocre football leads to divisive discussion. It’s inevitable. That said, people here are obviously allowed to have a positive or negative opinion so yes, it IS fine if Mike Zimmer is a favorite of yours. It’s also fine when someone else sees it differently You’re not being oppressed. I’m not being oppressed. Everybody has a voice and people can express positive views and negative views here as long as they do so within board rules. Anybody can see that’s true by simply reading the board. The problem doesn’t lie with what can be expressed but with an intolerance for what others are expressing.

This board becomes more intelligent and interesting when people make intelligent and interesting posts and spend their time in discussion with each other, not complaining about each other or talking past each other. There's a whole lot of "poor me, I'm not allowed to have an opinion" posting and unfocused ranting going on around here and it's not constructive. If you, or anybody else, want to see more intelligent, level-headed discussions: start them. Have them. Engage (respectfully). That’s always been the path to a better board and when people take it, this is a great place for discussion so for everybody who wants this to be a better place: remember it’s your place. It’s your responsibility to make it better. Make it better if that's what you want. Anybody can start a topic so start the discussions you want to have with others. Everybody can choose which kind of responses to engage with and which to ignore. Nobody is forbidden from being positive, intelligent, level-headed or enthusiastic.

The same goes for the chats. Some fans watch games very emotionally, others more rationally. Some are calm, others hysterical. Nobody can expect others to watch and react the same way they do so everybody just needs to understand they can only control their own behavior. In other words, a little more effort to be considerate of others would probably go a long way.

Let's keep the rest of this thread about the Vikings and if someone wants to have a discussion about the board... well, after reading my comments above, you know what to do. :)
So what you're saying is that I can talk about anything I want ... as long as it's about what you want.

KIDDING!

I will say this. I HAVE started them. They tend not to gain any traction. But "Are we screwed with Cousins?" Eleven pages and 154 replies. I rest my case, your honor.

One last comment about the board. A very important father figure in my life once gave me some great advice: "Don't associate with complainers." It has served me well. When things aren't going the way you want, and you're in a group of complainers, things only get worse. Complaining feels good for about 2 minutes, and then you spiral back into the abyss.

That's why I'm not going back to the chat, even though I LOVE intelligent conversation during the game.

What do I mean by intelligent? Allow me to give you NOT intelligent. A play happens, and a flag goes down. I say, "Crud, we held," and my wife replies, "Wow! How do you know these things? You always know before the announcers do."

We need a head-slap emoji. See what I mean? Not intelligent! I crave intelligent. But I just can't hang with complainers. So I smile at my wife, whom I love more than life itself, and tell her she ought to write to the executives at Fox and get me hired as an on-air analyst. I mean, who needs Troy Aikman?

(And nobody better flame me for complaining about my wife ... she's the CFO of a large company, way smarter than me. Just not about football.)

All right. I'll keep it to the Vikings from now on.
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Re: Satisfaction

Post by Mothman »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:35 pmNow for my parting shot. I think the Vikings are going to surprise some people over the next few weeks. I think they're dangerous. Most of you will disagree, but I don't care.
Actually, based on the amount of speculation I've seen here in the past few weeks regarding a possible deep playoff run for the Vikes, I'm guessing most of the board will agree. Personally, I think they're a potentially dangerous team IF they truly get their act together. I'm just dubious about that possibility at this point in the season. However, I've been watching football long enough to know stranger things have happened.

The reason is simple ... they're running the ball.
This O-line ... linemen LOVE to run block. Ask this group, who is not terribly athletic outside of Elflein and O'Neill, to pass block 45 times a game, and they're going to get exposed. Let them grade the road more than a few plays per game, and they can hold their own. They may not dominate, but Dalvin Cook doesn't need that. This young man, I believe, is about to go off. If defenses have to work to stop Dalvin Cook, then Kirk Cousins, Adam Thielen and Stefon Diggs can take advantage. Remember the days of Adrian Peterson, when we had nothing in the passing game to punish teams for loading the box? Those days are over. Get Dalvin going, and this team can go a long way. Their roster is as good as any team in the league. Their defense travels.

The key is Cook. Feature him, and we can beat anybody.
IF he and the o-line can produce. Featuring him won't be enough if it isn't productive. It's been nice to see them commit to the run more in the last 2 games and have some success with it but it's hard to overlook that they played Miami (who possess one of the league's worst run defenses) and Detroit. The Lions have a middling run defense but allow an average of 4.4 ypc and frankly, they seemed to go in the tank pretty quickly once momentum shifted away from them. If the Vikings are going to make a deep playoff run then over the next 3 games they will have to run the ball well against the 2 teams literally ranked #1 and #2 in the league against the run. If they manage that, they really might be onto something... and dangerous.

I'm not trying to rain on the parade. I just genuinely think the Bears and (if they get that far) the Saints represent much greater challenges.
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Re: Satisfaction

Post by Mothman »

I've found this thread enlightening and I hope some of you have too. I appreciate all the sincere and thoughtful responses that have been posted. I think they illustrate there's a pretty wide range of perspectives when it comes to how and why people cheer for this team and what they're looking for from season to season. Hopefully, it's helped everyone understand why some fans seem more or less patient than others, more or less satisfied than others, etc. It's definitely helped me.
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Re: Satisfaction

Post by PurpleMustReign »

Mothman wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:39 pm I've found this thread enlightening and I hope some of you have too. I appreciate all the sincere and thoughtful responses that have been posted. I think they illustrate there's a pretty wide range of perspectives when it comes to how and why people cheer for this team and what they're looking for from season to season. Hopefully, it's helped everyone understand why some fans seem more or less patient than others, more or less satisfied than others, etc. It's definitely helped me.
I agree. But I am right and you all are wrong. :twisted: :wink: 8)
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Re: Satisfaction

Post by Bowhunting Viking »

PurpleMustReign wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:07 pm
Mothman wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:39 pm

I agree. But I am right and you all are wrong. :twisted: :wink: 8)
Ummmm PMR you obviously failed to realize that I The Bowhunting Viking was also posting in this thread.. so I am sure you will feel the sense of urgency to change your last post to But I am right and 99% of you are wrong. Didnt realize I was here did you? :rofl: btw always wanted to comment on ur beautiful Shelties in ur Avatar. On my 4th one now. Awesome pets. Become part of the family. And yes.. one of them was named Viking. Miss that dude on game days!!!
I just wanna die as a Super Bowl Champion Viking Fan!!
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Re: Satisfaction

Post by PurpleMustReign »

Bowhunting Viking wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:52 pm Ummmm PMR you obviously failed to realize that I The Bowhunting Viking was also posting in this thread.. so I am sure you will feel the sense of urgency to change your last post to But I am right and 99% of you are wrong. Didnt realize I was here did you? :rofl: btw always wanted to comment on ur beautiful Shelties in ur Avatar. On my 4th one now. Awesome pets. Become part of the family. And yes.. one of them was named Viking. Miss that dude on game days!!!
Shelties are awesome. The bigger one in the pic passed away two years ago rrom lymphoma. He almost made it to 12 years. The little one is still alive and kicking, just turned 13.
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2018
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Re: Satisfaction

Post by Bowhunting Viking »

PurpleMustReign wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:02 pm
Bowhunting Viking wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:52 pm Ummmm PMR you obviously failed to realize that I The Bowhunting Viking was also posting in this thread.. so I am sure you will feel the sense of urgency to change your last post to But I am right and 99% of you are wrong. Didnt realize I was here did you? :rofl: btw always wanted to comment on ur beautiful Shelties in ur Avatar. On my 4th one now. Awesome pets. Become part of the family. And yes.. one of them was named Viking. Miss that dude on game days!!!
Shelties are awesome. The bigger one in the pic passed away two years ago rrom lymphoma. He almost made it to 12 years. The little one is still alive and kicking, just turned 13.
Awww man I'm sorry to hear that.. they def become part of the family. We have a female now that just turned 8. We almost lost her a yr and a half ago to a bad case of pancreatitis. She is tough and survived it but is starting to have occasional flare ups and some kidney issues. I said this isn't. I cant do it and bury another one rips my heart out. About 10 yrs ago I lost Viking, my all time fave one ro bladder cancer. He was only 10. Our vet said he was in such great shape he woulda guessed him at 7-8 yrs old. Woulda prob lives to 13 or 14 if not for the inoperable cancer. The day I had to euthanize him was one of the worst days of my life. This is it. No more. I can't do it again. Enjoy but while it's still here. Dang things sure steal ur heart!! They are sure beautiful
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Re: Satisfaction

Post by 808vikingsfan »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:57 pm So what you're saying is that I can talk about anything I want ... as long as it's about what you want.

KIDDING!

I will say this. I HAVE started them. They tend not to gain any traction. But "Are we screwed with Cousins?" Eleven pages and 154 replies. I rest my case, your honor.

One last comment about the board. A very important father figure in my life once gave me some great advice: "Don't associate with complainers." It has served me well. When things aren't going the way you want, and you're in a group of complainers, things only get worse. Complaining feels good for about 2 minutes, and then you spiral back into the abyss.

That's why I'm not going back to the chat, even though I LOVE intelligent conversation during the game.

What do I mean by intelligent? Allow me to give you NOT intelligent. A play happens, and a flag goes down. I say, "Crud, we held," and my wife replies, "Wow! How do you know these things? You always know before the announcers do."

We need a head-slap emoji. See what I mean? Not intelligent! I crave intelligent. But I just can't hang with complainers. So I smile at my wife, whom I love more than life itself, and tell her she ought to write to the executives at Fox and get me hired as an on-air analyst. I mean, who needs Troy Aikman?

(And nobody better flame me for complaining about my wife ... she's the CFO of a large company, way smarter than me. Just not about football.)

All right. I'll keep it to the Vikings from now on.
Sorry Kapp, whatever intelligence I have goes out the window on the first bad play. : )
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Re: Satisfaction

Post by vikeinmontana »

Satisfaction is all relative. I have been let down by the vikes many times in my 38 years. Those of you older have endured much more torment. But yet I’m still very satisfied with the Vikings. There are many teams far far far worse off than Minnesota. We are a good team far more than we’re not.

Sports are hard. Winning is hard. Scoring td’s in the nfl is hard. Winning games in the nfl is harder. Finding a Rodgers, brees, Brady is nearly impossible. The Vikings could literally lose every game they play because of parity yet they don’t. They win a lot of games.

I’ll always be satisfied. I love watching this team more than anything. Losses will never ruin my day. I have a great life and a great family. A purple football team getting a little leather ball across a painted line fewer times than another team isn’t going to effect me. I’ll hang with my wife and kids, fly my vikes flag, put on vikes gear, eat good food, drink cold beers, and have a great day every day the vikes play. Wins are much better than losses. I want us in the playoffs. I better see a championship before I die! But it’s all good. Love this team, love the fans, love and miss the twin cities. But I’m in gods country and will watch these games from afar! Enjoy the game today guys! Wish I could be there!!
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