Are we screwed with Cousins.

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

StumpHunter wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:38 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:21 pm

Were you even in the chat today? Not that I know of so don’t bother. You didn’t witness how childish the chat was today. In a game we won 41-17. It was a joke and so is this entire conversation and argument. Let’s go back to cheering our team on instead of waiting for cousins to make 1 mistake so we can rip on him the entire game. You bicker for him hitting a “wide open WR” but if he didn’t see Robinson and didn’t make the throw and you saw it, you’d still complain. It’s sad that now he even gets criticized for doing what he’s suppose to do....hitting WRs for TDs. Enough dude
It wasn't just one mistake though. If he had thrown that pick, and then followed it up with a TD drive on the drive after, or the one after that or the one after that...it just felt like the Pats, Bears and Seattle all over again, with the difference being those are actually good teams.

Where did I criticize him for hitting WRs for TDs? That was a good throw, a good throw that does not magically wipe out the bad.
Like I said, I’m over the argument.
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by TSonn »

My favorite part of the chat today was when Koolaid explained that his first comments in the chat today were super negative towards Kirk only because the pick 6 was the first play he had seen today since he was working. But his negative comments about Kirk were almost exclusively about how the play changed the momentum of the game which definitely suggests he was watching the whole thing and just logged on to bash Kirk (can't really feel the momentum through gamecast or just knowing the score).

With a good offensive line and a decent running game Kirk can be elite. With only one of those two things he will show signs of being great but mostly be average to above average. With neither he will look pretty bad. The line and the running game looked the best they have all season - was that Miami's miracle hangover or was it our new OC? I hope it's our new OC and we can make a run this year. Either way - Rick needs to address the line this offseason or we'll continue to argue about Kirk.

As for the pick 6? I'd bet nearly all of the starting QBs in the league would throw that same pass today. It was more of a great play by Fitzpatrick than a bad play by Kirk/Vikings. But that's my opinion. I have no idea if Kirk saw Fitz and tried to thread it into Diggs anyway or if his vision was blocked by the line. Kirk will say it was his fault but there's no way he'd throw Rudy or KS under the bus.
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by PurpleMustReign »

TSonn wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:57 pm My favorite part of the chat today was when Koolaid explained that his first comments in the chat today were super negative towards Kirk only because the pick 6 was the first play he had seen today since he was working. But his negative comments about Kirk were almost exclusively about how the play changed the momentum of the game which definitely suggests he was watching the whole thing and just logged on to bash Kirk (can't really feel the momentum through gamecast or just knowing the score).

With a good offensive line and a decent running game Kirk can be elite. With only one of those two things he will show signs of being great but mostly be average to above average. With neither he will look pretty bad. The line and the running game looked the best they have all season - was that Miami's miracle hangover or was it our new OC? I hope it's our new OC and we can make a run this year. Either way - Rick needs to address the line this offseason or we'll continue to argue about Kirk.

As for the pick 6? I'd bet nearly all of the starting QBs in the league would throw that same pass today. It was more of a great play by Fitzpatrick than a bad play by Kirk/Vikings. But that's my opinion. I have no idea if Kirk saw Fitz and tried to thread it into Diggs anyway or if his vision was blocked by the line. Kirk will say it was his fault but there's no way he'd throw Rudy or KS under the bus.
The only thing I'll say is the Vikings were ip 21-3 at the time, so you really don't have to hsve seen any part of the game to know it swung momentum.
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by Raptorman »

TSonn wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:57 pm My favorite part of the chat today was when Koolaid explained that his first comments in the chat today were super negative towards Kirk only because the pick 6 was the first play he had seen today since he was working. But his negative comments about Kirk were almost exclusively about how the play changed the momentum of the game which definitely suggests he was watching the whole thing and just logged on to bash Kirk (can't really feel the momentum through gamecast or just knowing the score).

With a good offensive line and a decent running game Kirk can be elite. With only one of those two things he will show signs of being great but mostly be average to above average. With neither he will look pretty bad. The line and the running game looked the best they have all season - was that Miami's miracle hangover or was it our new OC? I hope it's our new OC and we can make a run this year. Either way - Rick needs to address the line this offseason or we'll continue to argue about Kirk.

As for the pick 6? I'd bet nearly all of the starting QBs in the league would throw that same pass today. It was more of a great play by Fitzpatrick than a bad play by Kirk/Vikings. But that's my opinion. I have no idea if Kirk saw Fitz and tried to thread it into Diggs anyway or if his vision was blocked by the line. Kirk will say it was his fault but there's no way he'd throw Rudy or KS under the bus.
Brady threw a interception on the 4 yard line. I'm sure the Patriots fans are calling for his head.
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by PurpleMustReign »

Raptorman wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:33 pm
TSonn wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:57 pm My favorite part of the chat today was when Koolaid explained that his first comments in the chat today were super negative towards Kirk only because the pick 6 was the first play he had seen today since he was working. But his negative comments about Kirk were almost exclusively about how the play changed the momentum of the game which definitely suggests he was watching the whole thing and just logged on to bash Kirk (can't really feel the momentum through gamecast or just knowing the score).

With a good offensive line and a decent running game Kirk can be elite. With only one of those two things he will show signs of being great but mostly be average to above average. With neither he will look pretty bad. The line and the running game looked the best they have all season - was that Miami's miracle hangover or was it our new OC? I hope it's our new OC and we can make a run this year. Either way - Rick needs to address the line this offseason or we'll continue to argue about Kirk.

As for the pick 6? I'd bet nearly all of the starting QBs in the league would throw that same pass today. It was more of a great play by Fitzpatrick than a bad play by Kirk/Vikings. But that's my opinion. I have no idea if Kirk saw Fitz and tried to thread it into Diggs anyway or if his vision was blocked by the line. Kirk will say it was his fault but there's no way he'd throw Rudy or KS under the bus.
Brady threw a interception on the 4 yard line. I'm sure the Patriots fans are calling for his head.
If Cousins wins five super bowls I'll let some interceptions slide. That's a really bad comparison.
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by vikeinmontana »

Man. You guys are grumpy! Great team win today. Beat a team we should have beat. Albeit, a team some predicted we’d lose to and a team that beat the pats last week.

It’s the nfl guys. Literally ANY team can beat any team any week. Any win is a good win. Was it flawless? Nope. Was Kirk amazing? Huh uh. Did we make mistakes on both sides of the ball? Lots. But a wins a win.

We got a 3+ TD win today. We control our destiny to make the dance. All is good.

How ‘bout a little love amongst vikes fans for vikes players and coaches?!

Skol.
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by Mothman »

vikeinmontana wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:10 pm Man. You guys are grumpy! Great team win today. Beat a team we should have beat. Albeit, a team some predicted we’d lose to and a team that beat the pats last week.

It’s the nfl guys. Literally ANY team can beat any team any week. Any win is a good win. Was it flawless? Nope. Was Kirk amazing? Huh uh. Did we make mistakes on both sides of the ball? Lots. But a wins a win.

We got a 3+ TD win today. We control our destiny to make the dance. All is good.

How ‘bout a little love amongst vikes fans for vikes players and coaches?!
Better yet, how about a little love among Vikes fans for each other, or at least a modicum of respect?

Good post, vikeinmontana.
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by vikeinmontana »

Mothman wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:24 pm
vikeinmontana wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:10 pm Man. You guys are grumpy! Great team win today. Beat a team we should have beat. Albeit, a team some predicted we’d lose to and a team that beat the pats last week.

It’s the nfl guys. Literally ANY team can beat any team any week. Any win is a good win. Was it flawless? Nope. Was Kirk amazing? Huh uh. Did we make mistakes on both sides of the ball? Lots. But a wins a win.

We got a 3+ TD win today. We control our destiny to make the dance. All is good.

How ‘bout a little love amongst vikes fans for vikes players and coaches?!
Better yet, how about a little love among Vikes fans for each other, or at least a modicum of respect?

Good post, vikeinmontana.
Yes, should have mentioned that. Not sure if I’m blessed with perspective or if I just have a lot more going on in my “real” life but can’t see the reason to get all worked up. Winning in this league is SO hard. It’s never going to be flawless. But we have a great group of guys, well coached, amazing loyal fan base, and the best facilities in the league. Life is good.

Let’s take care of business, get in the playoffs, play our best football, and surprise some people playing with house money!
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by Mothman »

Please read:

The last few pages of this thread are pretty appalling.

It's time for a lot of people here to take a step back, remember we're all on this board because we share a mutual interest in the Minnesota Vikings, and resolve to treat each other more respectfully. It's fine to have strong opinions about the team. It's great to have passion for them and it's fine to be passionately frustrated with the team too. When all that feeling is expressed with enthusiasm as analysis or opinion, it makes this place tick. However, when passion blinds logic, tramples over respect and civility and people just keep clawing at each other's throats or dropping little comments meant to irritate, denigrate or enrage others, it makes VMB unpleasant for everybody.

There are inevitably going to be disagreements. There are inevitably going to be discussions where one fan is so blinded by their admiration for a coach or player that they simply won't see the logic in a fellow fan's argument,. There will be times when someone's opinion will rub you the wrong way, times when you will just think someone is full of it ... and so on. However, as a community, we have to be better than the last few pages and even though passions run highest during games, people need to try harder to get along in the chats too, especially because moderators don't always have time to follow them. That shouldn't be a necessity anyway. If someone irritates you in a chat, please remember taking a deep breath or just ignoring their remark(s) is an option and always a better option than sniping, which inevitably invites more of the same.

PLEASE, everyone, remember this small section of the board rules, especially the last line:

"Good fan" / "Bad fan" posts are not permitted. Just because you disagree with someone's views doesn't mean that they're not as much of a fan as you are. Disagree and respond to the post, do not attack the poster.

Consider why that rule exists and the spirit in which it was created. It's not a bad idea to remember the golden rule too and treat others as you would like to be treated. It's good for ALL of us to step back and think about that once in a while.
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by VikeFanInEagleLand »

Ok. So to the point of the subject. NO.....the Vikings aren't screwed with Kirk Cousins. To say that would be way too overdramatic. As long as the defense steps up, and plays consistently good for the rest of the year, and they can maintain a balanced offense, the Vikings can penetrate into the playoffs. I personally question whether Cousins is a winner of that caliber. At some point, no matter how good the rest of the team is, there comes a time when the QB has to come through....usually in a big time situation. There will come a time, when it's crunch time, when he's going to have to make a big play under pressure. He still has to prove to me that he can do that. Maybe he will. Hope he does. If he doesn't, then I will maintain my position that the Vikings would have been better off with Keenum or Bridgewater. I wonder, knowing what they know now, seeing what they have seen to this point, would the Vikings make the same deal to bring Cousins to this team? Hmmm.
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by VikingBolt »

VikeFanInEagleLand wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:54 am Ok. So to the point of the subject. NO.....the Vikings aren't screwed with Kirk Cousins. To say that would be way too overdramatic. As long as the defense steps up, and plays consistently good for the rest of the year, and they can maintain a balanced offense, the Vikings can penetrate into the playoffs. I personally question whether Cousins is a winner of that caliber. At some point, no matter how good the rest of the team is, there comes a time when the QB has to come through....usually in a big time situation. There will come a time, when it's crunch time, when he's going to have to make a big play under pressure. He still has to prove to me that he can do that. Maybe he will. Hope he does. If he doesn't, then I will maintain my position that the Vikings would have been better off with Keenum or Bridgewater. I wonder, knowing what they know now, seeing what they have seen to this point, would the Vikings make the same deal to bring Cousins to this team? Hmmm.
I pretty much agree with all you posted. I never felt Cousins was that great even before we got him. Especially at that salary. I was actually quite surprised.
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

IMO, Cousins should only be making a little more the Keenum does. I hope 3 years from now people are politely laughing at me, but I really doubt that will happen.
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by The negotiator »

You give Cousins a running game like Sunday and he will kill you. I have watched him for many years. He’s never had a ground game in his career. The question is whether we can consistently get 125 yards on the ground per game. In Washington the ground game was non existent the whole time he was there. He’s always had to carry a team with his arm. Can he carry a team on the road or in prime time? Keep the opposing team off balance with a running game and we are a different team. The bears will be a benchmark game. We will see if we can run the ball. Miami doesn’t tell me anything. Lastly, I hope Stefanski has some creative play calls he’s saving for some of the playoff teams.
We were pretty vanilla against Miami.
If we play complimentary football, we have a shot. In our road losses, we haven’t had much of a run game. Now teams have figured out how to double Diggs and Thieland and make someone else beat them. An effective ground game changes the opposing teams defensive play calling and opens up our offensive playbook. Hopefully we now have someone calling plays who is unpredictable and creative. We will see.
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by StumpHunter »

The negotiator wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:47 pm You give Cousins a running game like Sunday and he will kill you. I have watched him for many years. He’s never had a ground game in his career. The question is whether we can consistently get 125 yards on the ground per game. In Washington the ground game was non existent the whole time he was there. He’s always had to carry a team with his arm. Can he carry a team on the road or in prime time? Keep the opposing team off balance with a running game and we are a different team. The bears will be a benchmark game. We will see if we can run the ball. Miami doesn’t tell me anything. Lastly, I hope Stefanski has some creative play calls he’s saving for some of the playoff teams.
We were pretty vanilla against Miami.
If we play complimentary football, we have a shot. In our road losses, we haven’t had much of a run game. Now teams have figured out how to double Diggs and Thieland and make someone else beat them. An effective ground game changes the opposing teams defensive play calling and opens up our offensive playbook. Hopefully we now have someone calling plays who is unpredictable and creative. We will see.
Hope you are right.
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Re: Are we screwed with Cousins.

Post by VikeFanInEagleLand »

The negotiator wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:47 pm You give Cousins a running game like Sunday and he will kill you. I have watched him for many years. He’s never had a ground game in his career. The question is whether we can consistently get 125 yards on the ground per game. In Washington the ground game was non existent the whole time he was there. He’s always had to carry a team with his arm. Can he carry a team on the road or in prime time? Keep the opposing team off balance with a running game and we are a different team. The bears will be a benchmark game. We will see if we can run the ball. Miami doesn’t tell me anything. Lastly, I hope Stefanski has some creative play calls he’s saving for some of the playoff teams.
We were pretty vanilla against Miami.
If we play complimentary football, we have a shot. In our road losses, we haven’t had much of a run game. Now teams have figured out how to double Diggs and Thieland and make someone else beat them. An effective ground game changes the opposing teams defensive play calling and opens up our offensive playbook. Hopefully we now have someone calling plays who is unpredictable and creative. We will see.
Which is exactly why, in another thread, I stated the importance of using the Tight Ends more in the passing game. I think that's going to be important down the stretch. That will single-handedly win games for us if opposing teams continue to double cover Theiland and Diggs.
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