What To Do About the Run Game?

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Re: What To Do About the Run Game?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:22 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:03 pm
I remember last season when everyone was ragging on Murray, and PHP kept telling us that he needs more carries and gets better with time. Especially toward the end of the year, that was a very accurate sratement. Most of the games that Murray has 70+ yards is because he got better as the game went on. My point is... Even if they are down by 17 before halftime, they need to stick to the running game and not abandon it. I would like to see at least 25 rushing attempts.
Yes I have always said, he's a poor mans AP. Straight line, downhill runner with power. Look at AP's career. Anytime he was under like 15 carries, his average is pretty brutal. He got better as the game went on. And would crush it when he's getting 25+ carries. Murray is very similar. You cant give Murray 4 carries a game and expect him to run for 50 yards. He's a guy that wears the D down. It's tough to figure how you would split carries up but still give him that volume with Cook here. Cook is too dangerous to only give him less carries a game. He's a volume back too. For a smaller back, that kid runs HARD. They should look back at the Giants and see how they utilized the thunder and lighting combo with Barber and Jacobs. Because we need to do that. I mean we kind of did that last year with Murray and Mckinnon. I would love to see both backs on the field at the same time more often. I feel it would be very difficult to scheme for. Get Ham out of there in running situations (even though I love Ham because he always makes random good plays). These guys dont need a FB though and can both catch the ball just as good or better than he can. Thielen, Diggs, Cook and Murray all on the field at the same time, that's very difficult to stop IMO. And add Rudy in. Both backs need more carries. So why not keep the D on their toes and have both in at the same time?
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Re: What To Do About the Run Game?

Post by Cliff » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:51 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:01 am
For example, surprisingly, our OL ranks SIXTH in the NFL when you look at adjusted sack rate at 5.4%. Seattle's ranks 29th at 9.5%. Thats a HUGE difference. Also, Kirk Cousins has thrown 447 passes. That ranks 2nd in the entire NFL only behind Big Ben. Russell Wilson ranks 25th with 309 attempts and the only guys below him are guys like Rosen, Darnold or QBs that have split time or missed time like Winston/Fitz, Mariota/Gabbert, etc. Cousins has had 138 MORE attempts than Russell Wilson and has been sacked SIX less times. Cousins has been sacked 28 times and Wilson has been sacked 34. No less, Wilson is WAY more mobile than Cousins is. I'm not saying our OL is good by any means, but maybe our OL isnt nearly as bad as we think when it comes to pass blocking given the statistics. Case Keenum has 481 attempts ALL of last year. Cousins nearly has that beat and there is still 6 games to go. We are throwing more than we ever have. And in turn, it risks being sacked or pressured more which is what it SEEMS like to us. But after looking at the adjusted sack rate, I dont really think that's the case. Imagine if Cousins was on pace to throw 481 balls like Keenum. We'd have even less than 28 sacks at this point. Cousins is on pace for 640 passes roughly. That crushes Keenums numbers. No wonder everyone thought the OL was much better last year and that Keenum was so "mobile". They didnt throw it nearly as much as we do now. I proved that point in another thread that Keenum has been sacked 2 less times than Cousins has and Cousins, of all QBs, has WAY more rushing yards on the year than Keenum does. And Keenum has over 50 less passes than Cousins does this year. He's really not that much better than Cousins is in the pocket when you break everything down.
I think what you're missing here is that the offensive lines both suck but in different ways. You're touting Seattle as an example of a team that can run with a bad offensive line ... but they're being *forced* into being a running team because their line can't pass protect (hence the bad sack numbers). By contrast, the Vikings line can't run block very well and are better pass blocking so play calling reflects that.

I think there's a good chance that if we had Seattle's line we would be playing things just like Seattle and running a lot more ... and we'd be complaining about not passing enough.

In my mind Seattle's line is kind of proving my point ... you play to your team's strengths which is run blocking over pass blocking in Seattle's case so they run it a lot more.

I'm not saying we should abandon the run game but I'm not convinced adding 10 extra runs a game is going to improve the offense if a running back can't get out of the backfield.
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Re: What To Do About the Run Game?

Post by neb33 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:59 am

Run more would be the only way to get better and build confidence. Not so sure they have the time to build that processes because he are always s in a dog fight.
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Re: What To Do About the Run Game?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:47 am

Cliff wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:51 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:01 am
For example, surprisingly, our OL ranks SIXTH in the NFL when you look at adjusted sack rate at 5.4%. Seattle's ranks 29th at 9.5%. Thats a HUGE difference. Also, Kirk Cousins has thrown 447 passes. That ranks 2nd in the entire NFL only behind Big Ben. Russell Wilson ranks 25th with 309 attempts and the only guys below him are guys like Rosen, Darnold or QBs that have split time or missed time like Winston/Fitz, Mariota/Gabbert, etc. Cousins has had 138 MORE attempts than Russell Wilson and has been sacked SIX less times. Cousins has been sacked 28 times and Wilson has been sacked 34. No less, Wilson is WAY more mobile than Cousins is. I'm not saying our OL is good by any means, but maybe our OL isnt nearly as bad as we think when it comes to pass blocking given the statistics. Case Keenum has 481 attempts ALL of last year. Cousins nearly has that beat and there is still 6 games to go. We are throwing more than we ever have. And in turn, it risks being sacked or pressured more which is what it SEEMS like to us. But after looking at the adjusted sack rate, I dont really think that's the case. Imagine if Cousins was on pace to throw 481 balls like Keenum. We'd have even less than 28 sacks at this point. Cousins is on pace for 640 passes roughly. That crushes Keenums numbers. No wonder everyone thought the OL was much better last year and that Keenum was so "mobile". They didnt throw it nearly as much as we do now. I proved that point in another thread that Keenum has been sacked 2 less times than Cousins has and Cousins, of all QBs, has WAY more rushing yards on the year than Keenum does. And Keenum has over 50 less passes than Cousins does this year. He's really not that much better than Cousins is in the pocket when you break everything down.
I think what you're missing here is that the offensive lines both suck but in different ways. You're touting Seattle as an example of a team that can run with a bad offensive line ... but they're being *forced* into being a running team because their line can't pass protect (hence the bad sack numbers). By contrast, the Vikings line can't run block very well and are better pass blocking so play calling reflects that.

I think there's a good chance that if we had Seattle's line we would be playing things just like Seattle and running a lot more ... and we'd be complaining about not passing enough.

In my mind Seattle's line is kind of proving my point ... you play to your team's strengths which is run blocking over pass blocking in Seattle's case so they run it a lot more.

I'm not saying we should abandon the run game but I'm not convinced adding 10 extra runs a game is going to improve the offense if a running back can't get out of the backfield.
I mentioned in there that Seattle's line is a better run blocking OL but their pass blocking is as bad as it gets. I get what you're saying about our OL not being good at run blocking but this goes back to my point I had with PMR. Volume. Our rushing attempts are 29th in the NFL. I dont think our backs are getting the volume they need. Usually the teams that have the lowest attempts, have the lowest YPC. Teams that are truly "bad" run blocking teams are teams that have a lot of rushing attempts and are averaging under 4 YPC or they just dont have good running backs. Some of those teams this year are the Bills, Titans and Bucs. I mean look at the teams with low attempts and low YPC. They are the Vikings, Cardinals and Falcons. All 3 of those teams have good RBs. But they arent getting the volume. Why Atlanta is running Tevin Coleman under 8 times a game is beyond me. Why Arizona isnt pounding David Johnson with a rookie QB at the helm is beyond me. Game flow is always a factor but you get my point.

I'm not a fan of our OL by any means and I'm not trying to defend it. But Reiff, Elflein and O'Neill are 3 solid pieces. Reiff has struggled badly at times (battling a foot injury) but in the end, I still think he's a solid piece to have. We have two bad guards. And that's what needs to be fixed in the offseason. That does take a toll on interior running I get it. But this OL is in better shape than some believe IMO. At least from a "future" standpoint. We just HAVE to draft at least 1 OG early this year. I dont wanna keep dumping money there. We dont need to spend like crazy to have a good OL. Most teams build their core through the draft.

Granted GB's defense was beat up last week but I felt like we were "committed" to the run most of the game. Especially in the middle of the game. That's what I am looking for is commitment. Because it allowed our play action to be deadly. Just commit to the run and dont bail on it early is all. If we do that, we will see a huge improvement IMO. We dont need 20 more carries a game but continued to pound it to keep the defense honest. It's going to open things up and if Cook and Murray break some, it's THAT much better
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Re: What To Do About the Run Game?

Post by VikingLord » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:56 am

Mothman wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:46 pm
I've never understood that thinking. I can't think of a game this year where they were so far behind in the first half that they couldn't afford to stick with the running game if they had simply had the commitment to do it. Maybe by the time they were down 27 to Buffalo but most of the time there's just no need for a team to become one-dimensional when they fall behind early. There's time to remain balanced. What's really necessary at that point is for the defense to step up and keep things from getting worse. For example, if an opponent goes up 21-0 in the first quarter, as long as the defense stiffens, even if the offense only manages to score 7 points by halftime, that leaves a manageable 14 point deficit to overcome in the second half. An NFL team that's executing can manage that in less than a quarter.
Fair enough, and I agree with you. The defense can step up and keep games tight even if the offense isn't moving it and scoring early. However, that hasn't happened for the Vikings a lot this year. It seems if the offense is floundering early, the defense is also floundering early, or the offense is not just floundering early, but putting the defense in some really bad spots (like in the aforementioned Buffalo game...)
Mothman wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:46 pm
It's definitely a choice to get away from the run early, regardless of the score and they haven't faced enough late-game comeback scenarios to account for the degree of imbalance.

Personally, I think the 2 biggest keys to running in the NFL are:

1.) Commitment
2.) Blocking

The Vikes seem lacking in both areas.
I disagree on the choice part. I think the Vikings will remain balanced if the situation allows it.

On the execution part, no doubt that needs to improve. The blocking can certainly be better.

I just think we're about to see what will appear to be a marked improvement in the run game heading into December. Things are settling in on offense, and Cook is making his presence felt in multiple ways. If the Vikings can avoid the early-game swoon that seems to be plaguing them this year on both offense and defense, I think in 4 weeks people will be remarking about how improved the run game has been.
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Re: What To Do About the Run Game?

Post by Mothman » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:08 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:56 am
I disagree on the choice part. I think the Vikings will remain balanced if the situation allows it.
I think we've already seen that's not the case.
On the execution part, no doubt that needs to improve. The blocking can certainly be better.

I just think we're about to see what will appear to be a marked improvement in the run game heading into December. Things are settling in on offense, and Cook is making his presence felt in multiple ways. If the Vikings can avoid the early-game swoon that seems to be plaguing them this year on both offense and defense, I think in 4 weeks people will be remarking about how improved the run game has been.
I hope you're right. That would be a welcome development but they haven't run it well the last few weeks so my expectations are low. They had about 23 called running plays against GB (which is up from the previous week) but they didn't run it very well and they still had about a 2/1 pass/run ratio.
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Re: What To Do About the Run Game?

Post by mansquatch » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:49 pm

PHP: Seattle's OL is massively improved this year. Last year and the year prior they were certainly a dumpster fire, but that has changed. They've actively gone after that issue while letting their defense slip. (This is a key point for Vikings fans to consider. SEA made a big change here from their SB winning identity from just a five years ago, they are now invested in their QB.) They are sporting arguably the best rushing attack in the NFL right now.
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Re: What To Do About the Run Game?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:21 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:01 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:40 pm

Just for the record, Seattle's offensive line is miles, and I do mean MILES better than ours. They were bad in the past, but that is definitely yesterday's news. D.J. Fluker and J.R. Sweezy came over in free agency to solidify the guard positions, and Germain Ifedi is a young tackle who has really taken a step forward. There's a very good chance he makes the Pro Bowl. And their new offensive line coach, Mike Solari, has done wonders with this unit. They rank near the top of the league in almost every category, not just in the running game. They've allowed the fewest pressures and lowest pressure rate in the league, which is why you see less and less of Russell Wilson running all over the place.

Also, their running backs are no joke. Chris Carson, Mike Davis and Rashaad Penny have all rushed for 100 yards or more this season. Carson is a beast.

Put Seattle's line in front of Cousins and our backs, and we'd rarely lose.
I have to respectfully disagree here Kapp. And this is where I also disagree with PFF. Outside of Duane Brown at LT, Seattle's line is brutal. PFF has Fluker at a 52.1 and the #63 OG, JR Sweezy at a 45.0 and #74 OG, Germain Ifedi at a 54.0 and #68 OT and Justin Britt at a 45.1 and #34 center. These are VERY poor grades across the board for all 4 of them. Sweezy hasnt been good for a few years now, Fluker has been one of the worst pass blocking guards for quite some time now, Ifedi has came on some but is still a below average RT and Britt has been middle of the road at best as a center. But somehow they have their OL ranked at "19th". This is mainly due to their success in the run game. From a pass blocking standpoint, it's beyond scary and much worse than our OL.

For example, surprisingly, our OL ranks SIXTH in the NFL when you look at adjusted sack rate at 5.4%. Seattle's ranks 29th at 9.5%. Thats a HUGE difference. Also, Kirk Cousins has thrown 447 passes. That ranks 2nd in the entire NFL only behind Big Ben. Russell Wilson ranks 25th with 309 attempts and the only guys below him are guys like Rosen, Darnold or QBs that have split time or missed time like Winston/Fitz, Mariota/Gabbert, etc. Cousins has had 138 MORE attempts than Russell Wilson and has been sacked SIX less times. Cousins has been sacked 28 times and Wilson has been sacked 34. No less, Wilson is WAY more mobile than Cousins is. I'm not saying our OL is good by any means, but maybe our OL isnt nearly as bad as we think when it comes to pass blocking given the statistics. Case Keenum has 481 attempts ALL of last year. Cousins nearly has that beat and there is still 6 games to go. We are throwing more than we ever have. And in turn, it risks being sacked or pressured more which is what it SEEMS like to us. But after looking at the adjusted sack rate, I dont really think that's the case. Imagine if Cousins was on pace to throw 481 balls like Keenum. We'd have even less than 28 sacks at this point. Cousins is on pace for 640 passes roughly. That crushes Keenums numbers. No wonder everyone thought the OL was much better last year and that Keenum was so "mobile". They didnt throw it nearly as much as we do now. I proved that point in another thread that Keenum has been sacked 2 less times than Cousins has and Cousins, of all QBs, has WAY more rushing yards on the year than Keenum does. And Keenum has over 50 less passes than Cousins does this year. He's really not that much better than Cousins is in the pocket when you break everything down.

If Kirk Cousins had Seattle's OL here, had this same offense and still threw his 447 passes to this point, he would have been sacked 47 times as of right now. FORTY SEVEN!! With 6 more games to go. Kirk Cousins would probably be in an ambulance if he had Seattle's OL here. Do you want to know what that would result in if he played a full season behind Seattle's OL. 67 sacks!! I dont know what the record is in a season but I would imagine that number would shatter it. THAT'S how bad Seattle's OL is when it comes to pass blocking. And let's be honest, it would probably be even more than that because Wilson bails that OL out of way more sacks than you think. If there was a less mobile QB behind that OL, they'd give up way more than 34 sacks at this point in the season.

Guys like Sweezy and Fluker have FAR from solidified their guard positions. They are two very bad pass blocking guards. If Ifedi makes the pro bowl, then Brian O'Neill should. Because he's been 10 times the pass blocker Ifedi is this year. We'd lose a lot this year with Seattle's OL. Adjusted sack rates dont lie and Seattle's is very bad. I mean 138 LESS passes for Wilson and he's been sacked 6 more times than Cousins. Think about that. That's a monster difference. 138 passes is 5 games for Russell Wilson. Technically, Kirk Cousins is 5 games ahead of Russell Wilson in pass attempts and Russell Wilson has been sacked 6 more times and is one of the most mobile QBs in the league. That's crazy.

EDIT: David Carr has the record for most sacks in a season with 76. Cousins would be around 67 with Seattle's OL here. And that number would probably elevate given he's not nearly as mobile as Wilson.

Seattle's OL might be better run blocking than our OL is, but pass blocking, it's not even close. They have one of the worst pass blocking OL's that this league has seen in a while. And it's all hidden because Russell Wilson is only passing the ball 28 times a game. He's tied for 4th in the NFL for sacks taken with 34, imagine if he was throwing 447 times by week 13. He'd shatter that 34 sack mark. It would be 13-14 sacks MORE at their current rate of 9.5% and result in 47-48 sacks by week 13 and roughly 67 sacks given up on the year.

Dont take the capital letters the wrong way, you know me, that's just how I stress my points :D
Still gonna disagree with you, PHP.

Of Wilson's 34 sacks, 20 of them have come in 4 games -- all losses. In the other seven games (6-1), Wilson has been sacked exactly 2 times. And look at the four teams he took more than 2 sacks against -- Denver, Chicago (first two games of the season, 6 sacks each), the Rams after they acquired Dante Fowler, and the Chargers with Bosa and company. Those teams can rush the passer.

Also, while Wilson is only throwing 28 times per game, he's been remarkably efficient. He's got a 112 passer rating and far more YPA than Kirk Cousins has. You don't do that if you're running for your life like he used to do.

And make no mistake. Seattle can flat-out run the ball. They've put up more than 220 yards PER GAME against the Rams, a team we managed 54 yards against. They put up 154 against the Chargers. They've got more than 150 yards in 6 of their 11 games. Carson reminds me of Marshawn Lynch. He's a load to bring down. His issue has been fumbles, but he is a tough out. All their backs are good. I'll agree with you that ours are better, but that just proves the point. If our backs are better, then how is it we haven't run for more yards or more YPA? The answer is easy. We don't run with the volume of Seattle because we can't block like they do.

Don't just rely on PFF. Watch them sometime. You'll see. If we don't come away with a win at New England, there's a great chance Seattle will have passed us in the standings by the time we play them (they play S.F. this week). They're good, and they're getting better. I'm not a Seahawks fan by any stretch, but I respect the job they've done rebuilding this team quickly. In fact, here's a bold prediction: Pete Carroll wins Coach of the Year. Book it.
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Re: What To Do About the Run Game?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:16 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:21 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:01 am


I have to respectfully disagree here Kapp. And this is where I also disagree with PFF. Outside of Duane Brown at LT, Seattle's line is brutal. PFF has Fluker at a 52.1 and the #63 OG, JR Sweezy at a 45.0 and #74 OG, Germain Ifedi at a 54.0 and #68 OT and Justin Britt at a 45.1 and #34 center. These are VERY poor grades across the board for all 4 of them. Sweezy hasnt been good for a few years now, Fluker has been one of the worst pass blocking guards for quite some time now, Ifedi has came on some but is still a below average RT and Britt has been middle of the road at best as a center. But somehow they have their OL ranked at "19th". This is mainly due to their success in the run game. From a pass blocking standpoint, it's beyond scary and much worse than our OL.

For example, surprisingly, our OL ranks SIXTH in the NFL when you look at adjusted sack rate at 5.4%. Seattle's ranks 29th at 9.5%. Thats a HUGE difference. Also, Kirk Cousins has thrown 447 passes. That ranks 2nd in the entire NFL only behind Big Ben. Russell Wilson ranks 25th with 309 attempts and the only guys below him are guys like Rosen, Darnold or QBs that have split time or missed time like Winston/Fitz, Mariota/Gabbert, etc. Cousins has had 138 MORE attempts than Russell Wilson and has been sacked SIX less times. Cousins has been sacked 28 times and Wilson has been sacked 34. No less, Wilson is WAY more mobile than Cousins is. I'm not saying our OL is good by any means, but maybe our OL isnt nearly as bad as we think when it comes to pass blocking given the statistics. Case Keenum has 481 attempts ALL of last year. Cousins nearly has that beat and there is still 6 games to go. We are throwing more than we ever have. And in turn, it risks being sacked or pressured more which is what it SEEMS like to us. But after looking at the adjusted sack rate, I dont really think that's the case. Imagine if Cousins was on pace to throw 481 balls like Keenum. We'd have even less than 28 sacks at this point. Cousins is on pace for 640 passes roughly. That crushes Keenums numbers. No wonder everyone thought the OL was much better last year and that Keenum was so "mobile". They didnt throw it nearly as much as we do now. I proved that point in another thread that Keenum has been sacked 2 less times than Cousins has and Cousins, of all QBs, has WAY more rushing yards on the year than Keenum does. And Keenum has over 50 less passes than Cousins does this year. He's really not that much better than Cousins is in the pocket when you break everything down.

If Kirk Cousins had Seattle's OL here, had this same offense and still threw his 447 passes to this point, he would have been sacked 47 times as of right now. FORTY SEVEN!! With 6 more games to go. Kirk Cousins would probably be in an ambulance if he had Seattle's OL here. Do you want to know what that would result in if he played a full season behind Seattle's OL. 67 sacks!! I dont know what the record is in a season but I would imagine that number would shatter it. THAT'S how bad Seattle's OL is when it comes to pass blocking. And let's be honest, it would probably be even more than that because Wilson bails that OL out of way more sacks than you think. If there was a less mobile QB behind that OL, they'd give up way more than 34 sacks at this point in the season.

Guys like Sweezy and Fluker have FAR from solidified their guard positions. They are two very bad pass blocking guards. If Ifedi makes the pro bowl, then Brian O'Neill should. Because he's been 10 times the pass blocker Ifedi is this year. We'd lose a lot this year with Seattle's OL. Adjusted sack rates dont lie and Seattle's is very bad. I mean 138 LESS passes for Wilson and he's been sacked 6 more times than Cousins. Think about that. That's a monster difference. 138 passes is 5 games for Russell Wilson. Technically, Kirk Cousins is 5 games ahead of Russell Wilson in pass attempts and Russell Wilson has been sacked 6 more times and is one of the most mobile QBs in the league. That's crazy.

EDIT: David Carr has the record for most sacks in a season with 76. Cousins would be around 67 with Seattle's OL here. And that number would probably elevate given he's not nearly as mobile as Wilson.

Seattle's OL might be better run blocking than our OL is, but pass blocking, it's not even close. They have one of the worst pass blocking OL's that this league has seen in a while. And it's all hidden because Russell Wilson is only passing the ball 28 times a game. He's tied for 4th in the NFL for sacks taken with 34, imagine if he was throwing 447 times by week 13. He'd shatter that 34 sack mark. It would be 13-14 sacks MORE at their current rate of 9.5% and result in 47-48 sacks by week 13 and roughly 67 sacks given up on the year.

Dont take the capital letters the wrong way, you know me, that's just how I stress my points :D
Still gonna disagree with you, PHP.

Of Wilson's 34 sacks, 20 of them have come in 4 games -- all losses. In the other seven games (6-1), Wilson has been sacked exactly 2 times. And look at the four teams he took more than 2 sacks against -- Denver, Chicago (first two games of the season, 6 sacks each), the Rams after they acquired Dante Fowler, and the Chargers with Bosa and company. Those teams can rush the passer.

Also, while Wilson is only throwing 28 times per game, he's been remarkably efficient. He's got a 112 passer rating and far more YPA than Kirk Cousins has. You don't do that if you're running for your life like he used to do.

And make no mistake. Seattle can flat-out run the ball. They've put up more than 220 yards PER GAME against the Rams, a team we managed 54 yards against. They put up 154 against the Chargers. They've got more than 150 yards in 6 of their 11 games. Carson reminds me of Marshawn Lynch. He's a load to bring down. His issue has been fumbles, but he is a tough out. All their backs are good. I'll agree with you that ours are better, but that just proves the point. If our backs are better, then how is it we haven't run for more yards or more YPA? The answer is easy. We don't run with the volume of Seattle because we can't block like they do.

Don't just rely on PFF. Watch them sometime. You'll see. If we don't come away with a win at New England, there's a great chance Seattle will have passed us in the standings by the time we play them (they play S.F. this week). They're good, and they're getting better. I'm not a Seahawks fan by any stretch, but I respect the job they've done rebuilding this team quickly. In fact, here's a bold prediction: Pete Carroll wins Coach of the Year. Book it.
In all fairness, Cousins has taken 16 of his 28 sacks in 4 games as well. Buffalo, Arizona, LA and New Orleans. Also 4 teams that rush the passer very well.

And not trying to nitpick but Joey Bosa hasn’t been active all year until week 11. Seattle played LAC week 9. Bosa wasn’t playing. As for Fowler, he hasn’t made much of an impact in LA since he’s been there. There was a reason Jacksonville traded him and called him a “disappointment”. I watch them every week because my father is a huge rams fan. Dads actually mad they traded for him and can’t stand Marcus peters. He always says “big names, little production”. Fowler is a one trick pony and peters gets burned on the reg.

As for Wilson being efficient, he’s been like that his whole career. Running or not. In 7 years, 6 of them have been over 7.7 YPA. He’s averaging 7.9 on his career. So yeah, he can easily do that when he’s on the run. He’s done it his whole career. That doesn’t say anything about his OL.

As for their running game, yeah I’ve said more than once that their running game is legit and that they are a good running blocking OL. We don’t but also have way less volume. But they are not a good pass blocking OL no matter what way you look at it.

If Wilson’s OL is that good or even above average as pass blockers, then add in his mobility, there should be NO WAY he’s getting sacked 34 times by now. Wilson is on pace for 53 sacks this season . I’m not sure how anyone can possibly say his OL is a good pass blocking OL when he’s on pace to be sacked 53 times at years end. Or even MILES better than ours when our adjusted sack rate is miles ahead of theirs.

Cousins is on pace to be sacked 43 times by years end. 10 less than Wilson and Cousins will throw the ball roughly 640 times this season. Wilson will throw roughly 477. That’s 163 LESS passes thrown and he’ll be sacked roughly TEN more times. And the guy is the most mobile QB in the league!!!

PFF is just the cherry on top with these dud pass blockers on Seattle’s OL. The truth is in the numbers. I didn’t need to look any further than those numbers but decided to look at PFF. Plus I know these offensive lineman well enough to know if they are good or not. Fluker has NEVER been a good pass blocker. Sweezy was a FA bust when he went to Tampa and fell back here. Ifedi has been horrible since he was drafted and is now elevated his play to below average. And Britt has been average. Brown is their only legit pass blocking OL.

In the last 3 years, the Seahawks OL has given up 42, 46 and 42 sacks. This year they are on pace for 53. If anything, they’ve gotten worse and their guard positions are FAR from solidified. I feel bad for Russell Wilson because this team is one team that has truly ignored OL all these years. And the worst thing that could happen to him is them having the best running game in the nfl. Because they will probably go another year ignoring the OL and he’ll get sacked another 50+ times next year.

I respect your opinion Kapp but given these numbers and knowing these offensive lineman, there’s no changing my mind here. I can’t overlook the numbers when it comes to pass blocking. It’s beyond horrible. This is one of those agree to disagree type discussions. But I still love ya man! haha All I know is, Cousins would be in a body bag if he was behind Seattle’s offensive line
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J. Kapp 11
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Re: What To Do About the Run Game?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:25 pm

I enjoy the back-and-forth with you, PHP. I think you're wrong, but I still enjoy it!

You're looking at totals. I'm looking at trends. We have Sunday Ticket, and I always record and watch 2-3 games of each upcoming opponent (one of the benefits of having Mondays off while my wife works!). And I'm telling you, there's not an O-line in the NFL playing better than Seattle right now. Right now. Not week 1. That's just my observation. I'm no expert. But I do watch a lot of football, which may be as worthless as the guys in the Holiday Inn commercials.

Seattle worries me more than New England, who are really looking slow. Seattle is getting better every week. Their young receivers are fast, and they're coming on. Wilson is so stinking good, it's unfair. Pete Carroll has completely rebuilt that team in one year.

Now for something I know we can agree on -- I hope we beat the poop out of the Patriots. I want to watch Belichick's postgame presser after he's handed his lunch. Gosh, that would be sweet!
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: What To Do About the Run Game?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:38 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:25 pm
I enjoy the back-and-forth with you, PHP. I think you're wrong, but I still enjoy it!

You're looking at totals. I'm looking at trends. We have Sunday Ticket, and I always record and watch 2-3 games of each upcoming opponent (one of the benefits of having Mondays off while my wife works!). And I'm telling you, there's not an O-line in the NFL playing better than Seattle right now. Right now. Not week 1. That's just my observation. I'm no expert. But I do watch a lot of football, which may be as worthless as the guys in the Holiday Inn commercials.

Seattle worries me more than New England, who are really looking slow. Seattle is getting better every week. Their young receivers are fast, and they're coming on. Wilson is so stinking good, it's unfair. Pete Carroll has completely rebuilt that team in one year.

Now for something I know we can agree on -- I hope we beat the poop out of the Patriots. I want to watch Belichick's postgame presser after he's handed his lunch. Gosh, that would be sweet!
I hear ya man. I’m the same way. Watch a lot of football too. Being in 4 fantasy leagues forces me to watch a lot of football haha. I go over to my fathers every Sunday. He has 5 TVs mounted on his wall all connected to the ticket. Pretty sweet setup. No doubt Seattle’s OL is doing well when it comes to the run game. I just believe they are really really poor pass blockers. But like I said man, it’s just one of those agree to disagree situations. Love your input tho Kapp. You bring a lot to the board!
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Re: What To Do About the Run Game?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:42 pm

https://ibb.co/kcdmSZQ

I’m having trouble getting the actual image to come on here but you can see it at that link

This is what I do every Sunday!! This is my fathers “man cave”. Luckily he always lets me watch the Vikings on the big TV instead of the Rams haha
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Re: What To Do About the Run Game?

Post by PacificNorseWest » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:39 am

The only offensive line playing better than Seattle's right now is probably Indianapolis'. Their ability to run the ball has helped the pass pro tremendously. PA and Russell finally getting rid of the ball on time has also helped.
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Re: What To Do About the Run Game?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:41 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:42 pm
https://ibb.co/kcdmSZQ

I’m having trouble getting the actual image to come on here but you can see it at that link

This is what I do every Sunday!! This is my fathers “man cave”. Luckily he always lets me watch the Vikings on the big TV instead of the Rams haha
OK, now THAT looks amazing.

Enjoy! I'll be on an airplane. Hoping I can get the game cuz I won't even be near my DVR for a week.
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Underestimate this man.