Patriots Pre-Game Thread

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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by PatsFanInPeace » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:06 pm

720pete wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:56 pm
cmoss84 wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:09 pm
I'm just excited to see if we can get some shots in on Brady. Can we take him out of the game...at least momentarily? Would love to see Brian Hoyer in the game.

I hope we risk blitzing early and often-even if Brady burns us on it a time or two. Want him to feel as uncomfortable as possible...and if he's under pressure consistently, I could see him becoming skiddish and throwing some balls away.
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hanna ... -i-haven-t

I wouldn't read too much into that stat. That may be true, but he's missed Edelman for 4 weeks and then lost a combo of Gronk and or Michel for the rest of that time. Don't play zone and don't blitz. Just saying. He kills it. He has all his guys back now. All of that data is representative of that.

You have to play man mostly and disguise zone, but if you do blitz, hide the hell out of it.
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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by PatsFanInPeace » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:22 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:25 pm
Cliff wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:47 pm
Playing QBs like Brady is the reason they've got 3 1st round picks at corner ... and if two of them weren't out I'd feel a lot better about the game.

If the defense can stand up the offense can do enough to win.
See my post above. Brady is good, but he's not the Brady of even last year and he's arguably worse than 3 QBs the Vikings have already faced, 2 of which (Brees and Trubisky) they largely neutralized.

If the Patriots win, it's probably going to be because the Vikings shot themselves in the foot again and committed too many key mistakes, or had another slow start. If the Vikings show up ready to play and execute, they will win.
Did you just compare Trubisky and that offense to Brady and the Pats offense?

I get you want something to hold onto, but good grief that is weak.
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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by cmoss84 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:01 pm

720pete wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:56 pm
cmoss84 wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:09 pm
I'm just excited to see if we can get some shots in on Brady. Can we take him out of the game...at least momentarily? Would love to see Brian Hoyer in the game.

I hope we risk blitzing early and often-even if Brady burns us on it a time or two. Want him to feel as uncomfortable as possible...and if he's under pressure consistently, I could see him becoming skiddish and throwing some balls away.
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hanna ... -i-haven-t
There it is! Thanks for posting that.Bring the heat Vikes! If he scores early on a blitz, who cares...keep it coming.
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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by allday1991 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:23 am

VikingLord wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:44 am
allday1991 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:25 pm
The whole brady talk is hilarious. Dude is still top 3 easily and more than capable of shredding up our defence. No Brady has not fallen off, brees had a down year last year so i guess he was done then to? Talk to any pats fan and they will tell you they're running the ball better than they have in years. White and michell are a great 1 2 and make bradys job easier. These guys hung in with the chiefs and beat them, they controlled chicago all game. We need zero turn overs and a few lucky bounces to win this game.
I posted some actual stats and the QBR rating to back my claim that Brady has regressed. What exactly are you basing your hilarity on and claim that Brady is capable of shredding the Vikings defense beyond his pedigree?

Brady *has* fallen off. His own stats back that claim. Further, this year is this year, and the Tom Brady the Vikings will face on Sunday is the Tom Brady that is playing this year. If this year's version of Tom Brady has regressed a bit (once again, not something I am merely wishing is true, but something that is supported by a variety of stats he himself has put up), then that is the QB the Vikings get to play against.

Let's check back in this thread after the game on Sunday to review how much shredding Brady actually managed against the Vikings defense.
Yes i seen the stats and still find in quite hilarious, that after 3/4 of a season we can come to the conclusion Brady is regressing. As i said everyone thought Brees was regressing at the end of last year, and hes on a 80% completion percentage this year. Case a point a all time great who has put up multiple amazing seasons cant be written of as regressing with 3/4 of a mediocre season. If you think the pats cant put up big numbers on us i dont know what to say, they put up 41 points on the monsters of the midway and best reconized defence in the league.
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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by mansquatch » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:12 am

I think a key question is whehter or not DeFelippo can keep up with Belicik is adjustments. (I hate to say this, but LOL) Or put another way, is someone else going to be able to carry the water when they force us to win with Rudolph and the #3 WR. They will likely bracket one or both of Diggs and Thielen. Can they get Dalvin to make plays? I doubt the OL will find it within itself to run the ball wall up the middle.

I'm interested to watch this game. The NE defense isn't the most physically talented that we'll face, but it is the best coached.
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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by PatsFanInPeace » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:14 am

^ This just means Brees has had healthy players around him and incorporating players other than just Kamara or Thomas at WR.

If Brady was doing that earlier this year, he'd have better production.

Brees has been playing better than Brady. That doesn't mean Brady can start to have an uptick in his play down the stretch.
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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by PatsFanInPeace » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:27 am

mansquatch wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:12 am
I think a key question is whehter or not DeFelippo can keep up with Belicik is adjustments. (I hate to say this, but LOL) Or put another way, is someone else going to be able to carry the water when they force us to win with Rudolph and the #3 WR. They will likely bracket one or both of Diggs and Thielen. Can they get Dalvin to make plays? I doubt the OL will find it within itself to run the ball wall up the middle.

I'm interested to watch this game. The NE defense isn't the most physically talented that we'll face, but it is the best coached.
This is how BB usually does it.

You may see new acquisition, Obi Melofonwu (Hybrid Safety/LB @ 230 lbs - think Chancellor) be used up and around the line of scrimmage on the weakside, mainly. Ge got his first handful of snaps last week off the Bye in what they call the Quarters package which no slot CB and 4 Safeties instead.

They'll use him on Cook and to spy on Cousins.

if I had to guess it's Jason McCourty with Harmon bracketed on Diggs. Gilmore would then be asked to remove Thielen when in single man.

Chung on Rudolph in man.
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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by VikingLord » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:58 am

PatsFanInPeace wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:22 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:25 pm


See my post above. Brady is good, but he's not the Brady of even last year and he's arguably worse than 3 QBs the Vikings have already faced, 2 of which (Brees and Trubisky) they largely neutralized.

If the Patriots win, it's probably going to be because the Vikings shot themselves in the foot again and committed too many key mistakes, or had another slow start. If the Vikings show up ready to play and execute, they will win.
Did you just compare Trubisky and that offense to Brady and the Pats offense?

I get you want something to hold onto, but good grief that is weak.
For everyone's reference, this is what I compared.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

And for the record, I never said anything bad about Brady. He's ranked #10 in that QBR rating, which is 2 slots above Cousins. All I said was, once again based on that QBR rating, he's not in the top 3 in the league, and he's ranked lower than 3 of the top 4 QBs in that ranking that the Vikings have already faced this year, and of those 3, 2 were more or less shut down. And yes, Mitchell Trubisky is actually ranked higher on that QBR scale than Tom Brady so far *this season*. If you have something else to share that shows Tom Brady's production *this season* in a more favorable light, I'd love to see it and we can have an objective discussion about it if it's relevant.
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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by VikingLord » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:13 pm

allday1991 wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:23 am
Yes i seen the stats and still find in quite hilarious, that after 3/4 of a season we can come to the conclusion Brady is regressing. As i said everyone thought Brees was regressing at the end of last year, and hes on a 80% completion percentage this year. Case a point a all time great who has put up multiple amazing seasons cant be written of as regressing with 3/4 of a mediocre season. If you think the pats cant put up big numbers on us i dont know what to say, they put up 41 points on the monsters of the midway and best reconized defence in the league.
OK, there is a difference between noting a falloff in production from the prior season and claiming someone is regressing overall. Maybe that is the confusion here. I noted Brady's production is lower *this season*. Neither I, nor you, know how he will perform next season. His play *this season* has regressed as compared to his play last season, and the Tom Brady of *this season* is the Tom Brady the Vikings will play against on Sunday.

And as far as your claim they put up 41 points against Chicago goes, are you talking about this game that the Pats won 38-31?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401030832

They were out-gained in both passing and rushing yardage by the Bears and had less time of possession, and 14 of those 38 points they scored came from defensive/special teams TDs (I don't know which since I didn't watch the game, but the stat is near the bottom on that page). The Pats hardly dominated the Bears.

Look, I'm not saying the Pats suck. I'm not saying Tom Brady sucks. I'm not making any claim he is permanently regressing.

But the league-wide stats don't support a claim the Pats are a great team this year. Not on offense, and not on defense. They don't support the claim that Tom Brady is a top-3 QB in the league this year. Why any Vikings fan would just bend over before this game and say the team doesn't have any chance in this upcoming game is beyond me. I get why a homer Pats fan would come on here and say that, but look at the stats and how the two teams match up and if you're just looking at this game, the Vikes match up very well against the Pats and should have a very good chance to win if they don't screw themselves with stupid mistakes and play a complete 60 minutes of football. That is something, admittedly, they've struggled with this season, but just like they were due to put together a solid performance in a prime time game, I say they're more than due to come out and put a solid game together against a good opponent on the road.

I guess we'll see.
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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by mansquatch » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:01 pm

PatsFanInPeace wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:27 am
mansquatch wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:12 am
I think a key question is whehter or not DeFelippo can keep up with Belicik is adjustments. (I hate to say this, but LOL) Or put another way, is someone else going to be able to carry the water when they force us to win with Rudolph and the #3 WR. They will likely bracket one or both of Diggs and Thielen. Can they get Dalvin to make plays? I doubt the OL will find it within itself to run the ball wall up the middle.

I'm interested to watch this game. The NE defense isn't the most physically talented that we'll face, but it is the best coached.
This is how BB usually does it.

You may see new acquisition, Obi Melofonwu (Hybrid Safety/LB @ 230 lbs - think Chancellor) be used up and around the line of scrimmage on the weakside, mainly. Ge got his first handful of snaps last week off the Bye in what they call the Quarters package which no slot CB and 4 Safeties instead.

They'll use him on Cook and to spy on Cousins.

if I had to guess it's Jason McCourty with Harmon bracketed on Diggs. Gilmore would then be asked to remove Thielen when in single man.

Chung on Rudolph in man.
I will say that in looking at your schedule, your guys have not yet matched up with WR of the quality that MN will bring on Sunday. It might not be possible to bracket both of them. I suspect a key component to this game will be Cousins identifying where the defense is weak and either opting into a different play or adjusting his reads accordingly. I suspect that the Vikings having some flexibility on offense will pay dividends given the diversity of quality skill players on our offense. Obviously this is predicated on the OL's ability to maintain some level of protection. Of course despite our issues i do not feel like the Patriots' DL is in the same league as a Chicago, so I do not think they are going to be able to completely steal the game.

On offense I think you'll be surprised at our Defense and what it brings to the table.

This should be an excellent game for fans of both teams. Lots of things to pay attention to.
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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by PatsFanInPeace » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:41 pm

mansquatch wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:01 pm
PatsFanInPeace wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:27 am


This is how BB usually does it.

You may see new acquisition, Obi Melofonwu (Hybrid Safety/LB @ 230 lbs - think Chancellor) be used up and around the line of scrimmage on the weakside, mainly. Ge got his first handful of snaps last week off the Bye in what they call the Quarters package which no slot CB and 4 Safeties instead.

They'll use him on Cook and to spy on Cousins.

if I had to guess it's Jason McCourty with Harmon bracketed on Diggs. Gilmore would then be asked to remove Thielen when in single man.

Chung on Rudolph in man.
I will say that in looking at your schedule, your guys have not yet matched up with WR of the quality that MN will bring on Sunday. It might not be possible to bracket both of them. I suspect a key component to this game will be Cousins identifying where the defense is weak and either opting into a different play or adjusting his reads accordingly. I suspect that the Vikings having some flexibility on offense will pay dividends given the diversity of quality skill players on our offense. Obviously this is predicated on the OL's ability to maintain some level of protection. Of course despite our issues i do not feel like the Patriots' DL is in the same league as a Chicago, so I do not think they are going to be able to completely steal the game.

On offense I think you'll be surprised at our Defense and what it brings to the table.

This should be an excellent game for fans of both teams. Lots of things to pay attention to.
I never said to bracket both. I said you would bracket Diggs with Jason McCourty and Harmon over the top. You can't really judge what NE was doing 4 weeks ago or how they looked 4 weeks ago. This is by far the healthiest they've been all year coming into this game, and likely with some surprises to show.

Yes, it should be a good game, but if Minny gets behind, they could get overwhelmed.

I would agree NE's D Line is not on the same level as the BEars, but it's also not a true 3-4, where they vary fronts. This is why NE's OL manhandled the Bears O Line. They know it's a 3-4 over and over, with no scheme versatility.

One big thing is your team hasn't won against anyone good this year. All the wins have come against pretty bad teams.
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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by PatsFanInPeace » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:46 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:13 pm
allday1991 wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:23 am
Yes i seen the stats and still find in quite hilarious, that after 3/4 of a season we can come to the conclusion Brady is regressing. As i said everyone thought Brees was regressing at the end of last year, and hes on a 80% completion percentage this year. Case a point a all time great who has put up multiple amazing seasons cant be written of as regressing with 3/4 of a mediocre season. If you think the pats cant put up big numbers on us i dont know what to say, they put up 41 points on the monsters of the midway and best reconized defence in the league.
OK, there is a difference between noting a falloff in production from the prior season and claiming someone is regressing overall. Maybe that is the confusion here. I noted Brady's production is lower *this season*. Neither I, nor you, know how he will perform next season. His play *this season* has regressed as compared to his play last season, and the Tom Brady of *this season* is the Tom Brady the Vikings will play against on Sunday.

And as far as your claim they put up 41 points against Chicago goes, are you talking about this game that the Pats won 38-31?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401030832

They were out-gained in both passing and rushing yardage by the Bears and had less time of possession, and 14 of those 38 points they scored came from defensive/special teams TDs (I don't know which since I didn't watch the game, but the stat is near the bottom on that page). The Pats hardly dominated the Bears.

Look, I'm not saying the Pats suck. I'm not saying Tom Brady sucks. I'm not making any claim he is permanently regressing.

But the league-wide stats don't support a claim the Pats are a great team this year. Not on offense, and not on defense. They don't support the claim that Tom Brady is a top-3 QB in the league this year. Why any Vikings fan would just bend over before this game and say the team doesn't have any chance in this upcoming game is beyond me. I get why a homer Pats fan would come on here and say that, but look at the stats and how the two teams match up and if you're just looking at this game, the Vikes match up very well against the Pats and should have a very good chance to win if they don't screw themselves with stupid mistakes and play a complete 60 minutes of football. That is something, admittedly, they've struggled with this season, but just like they were due to put together a solid performance in a prime time game, I say they're more than due to come out and put a solid game together against a good opponent on the road.

I guess we'll see.
I wouldn't look at what the Pats looked like 6 weeks ago to compare to your team. That's honestly a rookie mistake, so to speak. If you're hanging on what they did on October 21, you're going to be disappointed on Sunday.

Michel got hurt in that game, Gronk didn't play, Burkhead wasn't there, and it's October. NE doesn't really start to crank it up until around Thanksgiving.

I agree the stats don't support NE is great, but honestly do you think that matters now? Stats are sort of meaningless, especially if they represent something that truly isn't reflective of what your team is capable of.

What you may not get is the wishful thinking "the Pats window is closing" mantra and beating of that drum, has been going on for like 5-7 years now.

NE knows depth is key and it's a marathon, not a sprint, so looking back to Sept and October for hope is almost irrelevant now.

As for Brady. he's been missing numerous key players all year at different times, and truthfully as a diehard of over 36 years and season tickets in my family since '78, I can be an honest fan and be disappointed with him not battling through not having his favorite targets, a bit better than he has.

I can't imagine this continues. We shall see, yes.
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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by allday1991 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:16 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:13 pm
allday1991 wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:23 am
Yes i seen the stats and still find in quite hilarious, that after 3/4 of a season we can come to the conclusion Brady is regressing. As i said everyone thought Brees was regressing at the end of last year, and hes on a 80% completion percentage this year. Case a point a all time great who has put up multiple amazing seasons cant be written of as regressing with 3/4 of a mediocre season. If you think the pats cant put up big numbers on us i dont know what to say, they put up 41 points on the monsters of the midway and best reconized defence in the league.
OK, there is a difference between noting a falloff in production from the prior season and claiming someone is regressing overall. Maybe that is the confusion here. I noted Brady's production is lower *this season*. Neither I, nor you, know how he will perform next season. His play *this season* has regressed as compared to his play last season, and the Tom Brady of *this season* is the Tom Brady the Vikings will play against on Sunday.

And as far as your claim they put up 41 points against Chicago goes, are you talking about this game that the Pats won 38-31?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401030832

They were out-gained in both passing and rushing yardage by the Bears and had less time of possession, and 14 of those 38 points they scored came from defensive/special teams TDs (I don't know which since I didn't watch the game, but the stat is near the bottom on that page). The Pats hardly dominated the Bears.

Look, I'm not saying the Pats suck. I'm not saying Tom Brady sucks. I'm not making any claim he is permanently regressing.

But the league-wide stats don't support a claim the Pats are a great team this year. Not on offense, and not on defense. They don't support the claim that Tom Brady is a top-3 QB in the league this year. Why any Vikings fan would just bend over before this game and say the team doesn't have any chance in this upcoming game is beyond me. I get why a homer Pats fan would come on here and say that, but look at the stats and how the two teams match up and if you're just looking at this game, the Vikes match up very well against the Pats and should have a very good chance to win if they don't screw themselves with stupid mistakes and play a complete 60 minutes of football. That is something, admittedly, they've struggled with this season, but just like they were due to put together a solid performance in a prime time game, I say they're more than due to come out and put a solid game together against a good opponent on the road.

I guess we'll see.
Ah yes i was talking about the 38-31 game, my fault on the score. I wasnt aware bears out gained ne is every category however still find it to be a impressive win. I think they where down michel, gronk and edellmen in that game. I agree he production is low this year by his standards and cant argue his stats should lead us to believe we can contain him, i do to believe we can contain him, however that little voice in the back of my head tells me not to be suprised if he does shred us.I do believe we can win this game, as you said with mistake free football, however i believe we have only had two games this year without a turn over (?).
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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by VikingLord » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:05 pm

PatsFanInPeace wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:46 pm
I wouldn't look at what the Pats looked like 6 weeks ago to compare to your team. That's honestly a rookie mistake, so to speak. If you're hanging on what they did on October 21, you're going to be disappointed on Sunday.
I'm not comparing anything that happened 6 weeks ago to what will happen on Sunday - that was one of my compatriots here on this forum that did that. I just pointed out the underlying details of that result don't support a claim that the Patriots demolished the Bears or are even better than the Bears.

With that said, the Vikings head to New England with no pressure or expectations. Those sit squarely on the shoulders of the Patriots and their fans who expect a win, and judging by your comments here, a fairly easy one.
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Re: Patriots Pre-Game Thread

Post by Dmizzle0 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:19 am

Brady will look to get rid of the ball quick to avoid the blitz. Defense will obviously need to play their assignments near perfect. Offense has to take care of the ball and not give them opportunities to capitalize. Honestly that's been the main problem with the Vikings when they play a descent team.
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