Unsportsmanlike Calls?

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CAViking
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Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by CAViking » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:08 pm

Hi all--
First post, but I've been lurking for two years. Finally had to sign up so I could see the gameday chats so I can watch people get excited/upset at the same things I see. I hope I didn't miss this topic in the postgame thread, but what got me last night was the three 15 yard penalties.

Eric Wilson's was ridiculous to me. He didn't say anything and looked to be tossing Cohen's towel back to him (albeit angrily). Collinsworth said "oh he must have said something," and when replay confirmed Wilson didn't, he just got quiet and let it go. That drive put them in field goal range and Parkey converted.

Kendrick's I never saw a replay on, but I definitely cringed when it happened looking for a flag. Probably could have been a no call, but it was called. Would have liked to see where Cohen was on the sideline. Maybe he was 'giving himself up,' but as a RB if he was still in the field of play, he's fair game.

Hitman's--Someone has to know a rule that I don't about a running Quarterback to explain this one to me. Trubisky went down (not sliding) headfirst, and Harry hit him with a shoulder and definitely not full weight. Collinsworth borderline called it an obvious call, and I didn't see any shots of Harrison or Zimmer going nuts so I'm really hoping there's a specific rule I'm not familiar with and it wasn't as bad of a call as I think it is. That one was a killer that ended in 3 points for the bad guys.

These were more frustrating to me than the turnovers, and maybe I got spoiled last year when it seemed like we never made boneheaded penalties at the end of plays. Still woke up sick thinking about these three calls, so I thought I'd post.
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Re: Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by Mothman » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:41 pm

CAViking wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:08 pm
Hitman's--Someone has to know a rule that I don't about a running Quarterback to explain this one to me. Trubisky went down (not sliding) headfirst, and Harry hit him with a shoulder and definitely not full weight. Collinsworth borderline called it an obvious call, and I didn't see any shots of Harrison or Zimmer going nuts so I'm really hoping there's a specific rule I'm not familiar with and it wasn't as bad of a call as I think it is. That one was a killer that ended in 3 points for the bad guys.

I was frustrated by that one too because it was a big play for the Bears and it sure didn't seem like a penalty to me.

Apparently, there's a new "point of emphasis" in the NFL rules for 2018 that covers this:

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/20 ... -emphasis/
A quarterback does not have to slide feet first to be considered to be giving himself up. Regardless whether the slide is feet first or head first, as long as he gives himself up, he should receive the protections afforded to him as a player in a defenseless posture.
A little more explanation:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... st-slides/
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Re: Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:34 pm

I hated the call on Hitman.

Of course, I know what the point of emphasis is. But Trubisky has this habit ... I mentioned it during the game chat ... where he acts like he's going to fight for yardage like a running back, then curls up at the last second. It always looks to me like he's trying to draw flags. I've watched a number of their games this year, and he does it every time he takes off running. Guys fall all over themselves trying not to hit him.

The call on Wilson was just baffling. He ended up with somebody's towel on his arm, and he was just trying to throw it off.
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Re: Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by PacificNorseWest » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:56 pm

The refs were horrible. I'm not gonna get bend out of shape on the Wilson call though because a few went Minnesota's way too.

Today's game with its rules, plus inherently bad officiating has made this game extremely frustrating to watch at times.
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Re: Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:13 pm

PacificNorseWest wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:56 pm
The refs were horrible. I'm not gonna get bend out of shape on the Wilson call though because a few went Minnesota's way too.

Today's game with its rules, plus inherently bad officiating has made this game extremely frustrating to watch at times.
Walt Anderson, clete Blakeman, and Brad Allen are the only good crews the NFL has. I hate how so may of the penalties like this are subjective. They shouldn't throw flags unless it is completely obvious that they were trying to hurt someone. Throwing a towel should not be a penalty.
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Re: Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by VikingLord » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:27 pm

The one on Wilson was caused by the crowd more than anything Wilson did. I think the ref just reacted to the way the crowd reacted, because if he really saw what Wilson did, there is no way any reasonable person could throw a flag. Maybe next time Wilson should at least throw his middle finger up or something if he's going to get flagged for whipping a towel off his arm.

Kendricks was crowd-pleaser too IMHO. Very borderline.

The call on Smith was technically correct and Smith knew it. It sucks. I hate the rule that if the QB doesn't clearly slide he can't get popped, but then again, the Vikings knew Trubisky is a runner and they really didn't do much to ensure he wouldn't take off regularly. Frustrating as a fan to watch the same thing over and over like that. I blame the defensive linemen for getting out of their lanes on the rush. They have to know when they are facing a QB who likes to run and have to alter how they approach the rush to help reduce that. The same thing happened to them on a lot of the earlier misdirection runs and RPO plays the Bears ran where the defensive linemen were being caught out of position chasing phantom ball carriers. Have to be better prepared for the opponent's tendencies and scheme and the Vikings defense was caught completely flat-footed for the entire first half IMHO. Very poor prep for a game they had 2 weeks to get ready for. Hopefully we'll see a better prepared Vikings team for the game in Minnesota.

On the bright side, at least the Vikings got a call the other way when Cousins got hit on the first try at the 2-point conversion late in the 2nd half, although I thought that was a clear violation of rule. But at least one of the announcers didn't think so, and I honestly could have seen it not called as well, so it was good that is was. It made up just a wee little bit for the 2 above that went against the Vikings.

I sensed a lot of frustration from the Vikings on defense in this game. They weren't prepared and they knew it as a unit and they let it get to them. By the time they settled down a bit and got their heads in the game, the offense still was playing catch up as well. Zimmer has GOT to get his guys ready for their remaining opponents. This "wait until it's too late or almost too late to actually start playing" mode is killing the team this year. Talent to Mars with this group, but they're trying to ride it and it doesn't look like they're ready for a lot of their opponents. If this continues Zimmer should be on the hot seat.
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Re: Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by CAViking » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:07 pm

Mothman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:41 pm
CAViking wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:08 pm
Hitman's--Someone has to know a rule that I don't about a running Quarterback to explain this one to me. Trubisky went down (not sliding) headfirst, and Harry hit him with a shoulder and definitely not full weight. Collinsworth borderline called it an obvious call, and I didn't see any shots of Harrison or Zimmer going nuts so I'm really hoping there's a specific rule I'm not familiar with and it wasn't as bad of a call as I think it is. That one was a killer that ended in 3 points for the bad guys.

I was frustrated by that one too because it was a big play for the Bears and it sure didn't seem like a penalty to me.

Apparently, there's a new "point of emphasis" in the NFL rules for 2018 that covers this:

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/20 ... -emphasis/
A quarterback does not have to slide feet first to be considered to be giving himself up. Regardless whether the slide is feet first or head first, as long as he gives himself up, he should receive the protections afforded to him as a player in a defenseless posture.
A little more explanation:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... st-slides/
Thanks for this. This makes some sense because there was no argument from Smith. Still stings though.
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Re: Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by Cliff » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:14 am

I'll say this; 5 or 6 years Trubisky wouldn't be running it so much because he would have been put on his #### so hard. I really hate that QBs have more protection even when they've become a running back. I'm fine with treating them differently in the pocket but if you're going to go out and run it like an RB you should be able to get hit like one.
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Re: Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by S197 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:02 pm

Cliff wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:14 am
I'll say this; 5 or 6 years Trubisky wouldn't be running it so much because he would have been put on his #### so hard. I really hate that QBs have more protection even when they've become a running back. I'm fine with treating them differently in the pocket but if you're going to go out and run it like an RB you should be able to get hit like one.
Yeah this rule really needs to change, just like they changed the RPO rule where you could hit a QB. After that rule change, Kaepernick was never the same, a lot of guys like Trubisky would probably be similar.
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Re: Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by Mothman » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:18 pm

Cliff wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:14 am
I'll say this; 5 or 6 years Trubisky wouldn't be running it so much because he would have been put on his #### so hard. I really hate that QBs have more protection even when they've become a running back. I'm fine with treating them differently in the pocket but if you're going to go out and run it like an RB you should be able to get hit like one.

I said the same thing to my friend during the game (although I added an expletive or two).
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Re: Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:39 pm

Mothman wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:18 pm
Cliff wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:14 am
I'll say this; 5 or 6 years Trubisky wouldn't be running it so much because he would have been put on his #### so hard. I really hate that QBs have more protection even when they've become a running back. I'm fine with treating them differently in the pocket but if you're going to go out and run it like an RB you should be able to get hit like one.

I said the same thing to my friend during the game (although I added an expletive or two).
Again, Goodell has ruined the NFL. His rules are lousy, and have removed the integrity of the game. You don't see MLB making out hers wear masks just because one gets hit with a line drive, and you don't see the NHL banning sharp skates everytime a player gets cut.
I'll also say this again... When this cba is up, there will be a long, long players strike. It will be a disaster. And it will be like the NBA after their lockout years ago: it will take years to get back to respectability, something I would argue the NBA has yet to do.
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Re: Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by VikingLord » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:27 pm

I'll just say this about Trubisky - the Vikings knew he is a first-read QB who will tuck and run and they let him do it for the entire first half. He has some speed and some evasiveness, but nothing he did should have been a surprise, and while QBs like that can be difficult to contain, they can be contained with a combination of a disciplined pass rush and physical press coverage that attempts to disrupt that first read. In other words, if you know you're playing a first-read QB that is likely to tuck and run, then play defense to get him to do exactly that and have a plan to stop it. It's like blitzing on 3rd-and-long with the goal of forcing the ball out quickly to a receiver who is short of the sticks. You play defense to exploit the tendencies of the opponent.

And that is what was so frustrating about that 1st half. Trubisky did *exactly* what he's been doing all year and the Vikings seemingly had no answer. All 30 minutes of that first half. And as a result, Trubisky kept several drives going that should otherwise have ended fairly quickly and gobbled up yardage, all the while doing that half-slide at the end trying to goad the Vikings into a hit that could tack on another 15. The Vikings defenders appeared extremely frustrated by this, but it wasn't until after the end of the 1st half that they started to actually contain it, which, once they had adjusted, they did fairly easily, and with predictable effect on the Bears offense. But the damage was already done.

I said it before and I'll say it again - the defense, and the team overall, looked *unprepared* for the Bears. They were sloppy, undisciplined, and seemed to not be ready for obvious tendencies the Bears had put on tape all season (not just Trubisky, but the entire team). The Bears ended up running circles around them as a result. This isn't just a critique of the defense - the offense was actually worse. Cousins appeared to be completely unprepared for their tendencies as well. The offensive line was just as bad. They seemed like they had barely watched any tape of the Bears defense. And this after a 2 week hiatus. Just no excuse for it. If it was one game, I'd feel less worried, but this has been the case all season long. Talent can only take you so far, and at the pro level, the difference in athleticism isn't great enough to justify a lack of study and preparation.
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Re: Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:27 pm

Cliff wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:14 am
I'll say this; 5 or 6 years Trubisky wouldn't be running it so much because he would have been put on his #### so hard. I really hate that QBs have more protection even when they've become a running back. I'm fine with treating them differently in the pocket but if you're going to go out and run it like an RB you should be able to get hit like one.
Truth. :wallbang:
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Re: Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by CAViking » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:35 pm

Just saw hitman was fined $10,000 for his hit on Trubisky. Still can't believe it.
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Re: Unsportsmanlike Calls?

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:18 am

I hate the extra protection the QBs get these days. We were just talking about it at my family's Thanskiving dinner. My dad said it best, guys like Deacon , Butkus, Nitschke, Hendricks etc etc woulda only played about 2 plays every game before being ejected and would have had to PAY the league to play because fines woulda taken their whole salary.
But the thing that pisses me off the most if the way so many exploit the rule to their favor and get away with it. Rodgers has made his career by extending plays with his legs and pulling off his Hail Mary plays. I think some one mentioned it here, but Trubisky, and others , run, then start that half a## slide and dive head first and A. Pick up extra yds and 1st downs, or as in Harry's case B. Get the flag and the automatic 1st down.
If your gonna tuck it run down field , to me your no longer a QB but a runner. If you do give yourself up and slide feet 1st, ok then your down . But damit if ur gonna lower it pads and fight for more yards, well, then your playing football buddy. If you get hit in the shoulder pad by the defenders shoulder pad so be it.
Change the rule to say if you give the illusion of giving yourself up by sliding feet first and then try and extend the play by diving forward, the flag is on you.
Now I know that's a pipedream, but I'm just so sick of Godell and the rules committee ruining this game and slanting everything in favor of the offense.
I know high scoring games are what sell now.. sorry I'm OLD SCHOOL... I love smashmouth Defense.
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