Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:28 am

mansquatch wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:59 am
The "Zimmer Issue" at play here wasn't the defense or the defense being figured out. The Defense held Chicago to 17 points yesterday in the face of a very lopsided time of possession. Holding the other team to 17 points is usually a win. The "Zimmer Issue" was OC choice. Similar to Turner, he has again put all his eggs in the offensive basket of a guy who so far has had some bad performances. Zimmer needs to do a better job of managing DeFelippo.

This season is shaping up to be similar to 2016, but for somewhat different reasons. We've had a kicking fiasco. (Not as bad as 2016) We've had an OL decimated by injuries. (Not as bad as 16, but bad) Unlike 2016 we do not have a OC "transition" to someone who will call plays that will work for the unit on the field. Instead we've got a first year OC who is not yet coaching at the level the team needs. We are also better at QB in 18 than we were in 16.

Zimmer needs to get DeFelippo coached up, assuming he can.
I keep wondering if it's possible Zimmer actually created this with DeFilippo.

First half dozen games, we couldn't run the ball. But we sure could throw it.

Then Zimmer stepped in and declared we need to be a running team. Now we can't throw it.

Just wondering.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by Mothman » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:37 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:24 am
Sorry you had a bad time at the game.
Thanks, although I actually had a good time at the game! It was a cool, crisp night here and there was a lot of excitement in the air. I almost always have a good time when I see an NFL game. I just love the experience. The only time it's truly been awful was back in the '90s when I sat through a Bears/Packers MNF game in an absolute downpour. It was cold, wet, hard to see the game and the game itself was terrible, a complete blowout win for GB that wasn't competitive.

That was a bad time at a game. :lol:
I hope you're wrong.
I hope I am too but at this point, I think Zimmer and Spielman have shown us who they are and what we can expect from them, good and bad.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by mansquatch » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:56 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:28 am
I keep wondering if it's possible Zimmer actually created this with DeFilippo.
First half dozen games, we couldn't run the ball. But we sure could throw it.
Then Zimmer stepped in and declared we need to be a running team. Now we can't throw it.
Just wondering.
I do not think it is that simple. Zimmer wants the Offense to sustain drives and win TOP as well as score points. The traditional way to do this is to have a functioning rushing attack. What he doesn't want is a boom/bust offense that produces a bunch of 3 and outs, conceding field position in the process. High functioning NFL defenses can stop the run. They know that despite all the focus on the NFL passing game, if you can make the other team one dimensional, they are MUCH easier to defend. So the Bears are going to be good at taking away the rushing attack. In the face of an elite defense, the OC needs to adjust and get creative to still meet his goals of sustaining some drives, protecting the football, and scoring some points. This is where DeFelippo failed last night. They had no answer for Chicago.

I suspect that the Chicago defense on the whole is going to make it hard for just about every team not called the Cowboys to run the ball. The Vikings didn't force this yesterday either, they ran a little but not very much. However, what they didn't do is run quick outs, WR screens, screen passes, and other quick YAC plays to offset the issue inside. They also did a very poor job of trying to keep the defense (and the DC) off balance. They didn't use other tools like Tempo to try and wear down the defensive front. (Play for the whole game, not just the current drive.)

Look what happened in the JAX / PIT game. JAX lead the Steelers for 3 quarters, dominating them with their defense. In the 4Q, the JAX defense tired, PIT adjusted and they won late. Why the Vikings couldn't have game planned similarly I do not know? (Incidentally, this is how I think Chicago will lose in the post season. They will face a team with a great QB that will wait them out. Trubisky isn't going to score enough points to make the game out of reach.)

The Bears DC is no slouch either, Fangio, along with Zimmer and Belicik are probably the three best Defensive minds in the NFL so that makes the above harder, he knows what can beat him.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by purplenoway » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:56 pm

Mothman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:13 am
My post-game thoughts:

The Vikings were inexcusably unprepared and it showed.

Cousins was brutal. He's showing us pretty clearly this season that he's not worth what they paid him. The INTs were both critical, unforced errors. Sitting there in the same stadium where I saw Jay Cutler make throws like that quite a few times, it was hard not to make the comparison. When the entire crowd reacts in bewilderment to an INT throw, you know it's really bad.

The OL still stinks.

The coaching staff wasn't even bright enough to have someone spy on Trubisky in the first half, despite his obvious ability to make plays with his legs. That was particularly inexcusable since the Vikes head coach is supposed to be a great defensive mind.

The tackling was lousy. The team committed stupid penalties and mistakes that a veteran team shouldn't be making.

The running game was non-existent. A lot of that's on the OL.

DeFilippo's playcalling was baffling at times and the Vikes didn't look like they had a well-constructed game plan for attacking the Bears who admittedly, have a good defense.

The Vikes WRs looked solid, as usual and Harris' 2 INTs really helped keep the game competitive (his first pick was great) but the defense has to rise to the occasion in a big game like this and they didn't do it.

Key stat:
Minnesota: 22 rushing yards
Chicago: 148 rushing yards

The Bears ended up with a big advantage in time of possession.

The officiating was pretty poor and it hurt both teams.

Overall, Chicago played with more enthusiasm, were better-coached and appeared better prepared. They basically dominated the game until it was out of reach. The Vikes made it interesting late but I'm starting to think "garbage time is Cousins' time!" ;)

I know I'm being negative but the Vikes are mediocre (again) and 5 years into the over-praised, overrated, Spielman/Zimmer era they should be a hell of a lot better. Zimmer looks more and more like exactly what I feared he'd be from the start: a Marvin Lewis type who can field teams that are good enough to earn him praise and keep his job but that never really look like they have a realistic shot to win it all. he reminds of Brad Childress too: conservative and overmatched against well-coached opponents. After 5 years of neglecting the offensive line, playing musical quarterbacks and delivering too many disappointing performances like yesterday's, I've seen enough. This is the latest variation on a formula for mediocrity we've often seen from this franchise over the last few decades. On top of that, if they can't muster a better performance than yesterday's with first place on the line and an extra week to prepare, than I say screw it: start making plans for new management and coaching at the end of the season.

I'm not just venting. I've had it. This team needs to seek out some minds that really understand the contemporary game (and the importance of a $#@# offensive line) and start building something better.
Wow!!! I could not have said it any better. Right on, brother! :wallbang:
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:16 pm

I will say one last thing about Cousins. For all those sitting there saying "he wasnt worth $84 million" (which I saw coming from day 1 the second he had a bad game), do not sit there and act like we could have offered him half that and landed him or that there were truly better options out there. This whole Cousins, Keenum, Teddy talk is getting old.

Bottom line is, Kirk Cousins has started for 3 years in Washington and has been consistent all 3 of those years. Keeping a below average roster around .500 and making the playoffs one of the years. His accuracy has been consistent, his arm has been consistent, his TDs have been consistent, his turnover per year have been consistent, etc.

Case Keenum had 5 years of being a backup, filling in and starting. Those 5 years were terrible to say the least. In those 5 seasons, he has a record of 11-21 and a 35:30 TD/INT. He was a WELL below average QB in this league. Yes, he was great last year. But bottom line is, you dont know what you're getting if you re-sign him long term. I dont want to hear "well he just clicked last year". Was he going to click this year then? With a worse OL and a different OC?? Highly doubtful. He has now proved that we made the right call letting him go given what he has showed in Denver this year. No less any win he has had this year outside of Arizona (which was carried by the defense), he has squeaked out. Beat Seattle by 3, Oakland by 1 and LAC by 1. 3 wins by 5 total points. He's also had FOUR, yes FOUR games of 0 TDs and 1 INT. Denver's offensive line isnt great but it's not nearly as bad as ours. Keenum has been sacked TWO less times than Cousins this year. So praise Keenum's mobility all you want. It doesnt matter. Guys complain every time Cousins gets sacked saying "wish we still had Keenum" or "Keenums mobility is this and that". Keenum was riding the high horse last year. Bailed us out on a lot of dumb, yet lucky throws/plays. Pressure this year has primarily came from the blindside. Reiff was a stud last year, awful this year. If anyone thinks Keenum would somehow beat the Bills with Reiff giving up 12 pressures on his blind side and having no run game, you're dreaming. Same goes for the Saints. Kirk Cousins wasnt the one that fumbled on the 10 and switched the momentum of the game. That was out of his control just like it would have been out of Keenums during that game. Cousins has been getting sacked or pressured before he even gets to the back of his drop. That is not good. Our OL in on pace to set an NFL RECORD for most pressures given up in a season. Not just beat it but shatter it. And some of you think Case Keenum is getting us out of that mess because of his mobility? Yeah ok. He sure cant get Denver out of a mess with his mobility. Keenum has NINE rushes this year in 10 games. NINE. He's actually only ran the ball in 4 of those 10 games. Cousins has ran at least twice in every game except last night. So what does that tell you? Everyone is hanging their hat on a couple Houdini plays made by Keenum last year (just his luck) when Cousins out of all people is running for his life. But Cousins is "immobile"? I think it just shows how much more he is getting pressured than Keenum was.

In the end, Keenum now has 6 below average seasons and 1 good season. You want to give $18 million per year to that? I can guarantee that if and when Keenum would have flopped here if we kept him, we'd all be saying how stupid we are passing up on Cousins. "We're in a SB window and this dumb organization put their trust in Case Keenum" or "Spielman is horrible at finding QBs", etc. I can see it now. And many of you know this is true. Is Cousins playing up to snuff right NOW? No. But if I have the options of Kirk at $28 mill, Keenum at $18 mill or Teddy at $6 mill, I continue to take Cousins any day of the week. Keenum and Teddy are the epitome of inconsistent question mark QBs that will always be no more than average at best. I go with consistency. Not with "lets just throw a patch on the QB position for now so we can save some money in the middle of a SB window". Cousins demolishes both of them from a pure QB standpoint. And it's not even close. So please, can we drop the Cousins/Keenum/Teddy garbage? We chose Cousins. We roll with Cousins. And sit here and watch Keenum crap the bed and become a backup again and Teddy be a career backup.

I've said this before, for as harsh as we as Vikings fans can be on Quarterbacks, KEENUM and TEDDY are guys you're putting faith in and backing? Are you kidding me? Two guys that have had below average careers and/or devastating injuries? We're content with them but want to complain about Kirk Cousins? Come on. Kirk isnt perfect. He's not the best QB in the league. I would say he is about 9th/10th best or so. But those guys arent even floating near that rank. Cousins will have bad games. More will come. But he will have games that show you just how good he is as well. But what bothers me is how loyal fans are to Keenum and Teddy. A guy that had a "miracle" year (literally) and a guy that has done NOTHING for this franchise other than be a good teammate and leader. WOW.

I'm not sitting here "defending Kirk Cousins" or act like he's "my hero". I've said when he has and hasnt played good. But the TALENT level between him, Keenum and Teddy isnt even comparable. So thats why I stick my neck out for Cousins when guys complain about him. Because I know that our other choices, were borderline flops and they have nowhere near the talent of Kirk Cousins. Rant over
Last edited by Pondering Her Percy on Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by 720pete » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:46 pm

allday1991 wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:58 am
No one worried about Cook? Dude started his rookie season on firr and has been a dud this year. Often injuried, fumbles in big moments (49ers game, bears). Like the guy hasnt been a difference maker at all and our best games running the ball he was on the bench. Final thought, our cbs werent shut down, especially waynes who gave up two 3 and long plays.
At this point I think we should hand Latavius Murray an extension, but I doubt he will sign here after the end of the season.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:51 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:19 am
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:41 am

Let me rephrase. We could have won. Had it not been for the pick six or the cook fumble, etc. I just get sick if these games. New England rarely has games like this. New Orleans rarely has games like this. Good teams don't make a habit of this and yet the Vikings have.
The Patriots have been blown out by the Lions and Titans. Pretty sure they have games like that.
Even with that, the Patriots have been there before. They are in the decline, there is no denying it. Three years ago if they had one game like that, they would reel off 5 dominating wins in a row. I don't see the Vikings doing that.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by PacificNorseWest » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:52 pm

The coaching staff wasn't even bright enough to have someone spy on Trubisky in the first half,
I said the same dang thing last night. I believe it was mentioned during the game about how they need to put a spy on Trubisky and I'm sitting there like, "Zimmer didn't think to do that from the beginning?!" If you watch any film on Trubisky at all, you learn that he's one read and take off or the play is designed for him to rollout and such.

Which leads me to my next point in that these new offensive schemes have quickly surpassed that of Zimmer's and is soon to leave his philosophy behind. Players are constantly out of position and playing catch up because they're trying to give the double A-gap blitz look all the time. There was one play specifically last night on a huge 3rd down play where it happened to Harrison. Had he just played where a safety plays, against a one-read quarterback, that play is picked or Trubisky doesn't throw it and they probably get to him.

What I will credit Zimmer on is he is one of the best I've seen at half-time adjustments. Every week when the opposing offense comes out hot, Zimmer makes some changes and the defense is suddently back to last seasons form.

Offensively, I'm not like others who are pinning a lot of this on DeFilippo. I really don't see how you can, to be honest. The Vikings were in position to score on multiple drives in which they didn't because of a turnover or poor execution. Cook's fumble, Cousins missing a wide open Diggs for 6. Cousins missed receivers all night for that matter that resulted in a lot of big plays left on the table. His passes getting batted down...That's not a DeFelippo thing...That's a Cousins thing. I also thought when the Vikings were down, he did a good job of still trying to run the ball even though it got completely shutdown in the 2nd half.The offensive line getting manhandled also isn't Flips fault. What play would you call when on over pass, a defender is in Kirk's face within 2.5 seconds or a run where there is a wall of defenders stopping you on every attempt?

The Vikings are aggressive on offense this season with the playcalling. They go for it on 4th down. They picked on up again yesterday. There was another situation where the offense couldn't execute well enough on 3rd down which resulted them having to kick a FG in a spot where I'm certain they would have went for it.

Cousins was bad. Some blame on the line, but there were a lot of plays there that the Vikings missed because Cousins couldn't deliver or didn't do so accurately. Again, that's an execution thing, not a coach thing.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by VikingLord » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:41 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:47 am
They got bullied and outsmarted last night. The defense was slow to react to the misdirection then mauled in the north South run game way too often. The offensive line was abused by Mack and Hicks. Inexcusable to ever leave Reiff one on one with Mack for more than 2 seconds. Season isn't lost but is an uphill battle.
This.

With how unprepared the defense looked in the 1st half, I almost forgot about how poor they were with simple inside runs all game. The Bears would line up, and when Trubisky wasn't dancing with himself and taking off for massive yardage or the Bears weren't running some "look over here!!!" misdirection play, the running back was just smashing into the line and picking up 4+ on inside runs that never seemed to be defended. I cannot think of a single run other than the one where Kendricks lined up the RB and drilled him (still for a 2 yard gain...) where one of those inside runs was defensed properly or where the Bears offensive line allowed penetration that could have disrupted the runner. Either the Bears played really well in the interior of their offensive line (possible, but not likely against a truly good front 7), or the Vikings just weren't prepared for it based on their defensive line personnel on those plays. And given the consistent success on those plays, I'd have to say it was the latter, and that the Bears knew they could maul the Vikings in those situations and did it like an old school wrestler who keeps pressure on the twisted knee of his opponent.

Defense seemed to clean things up in the 2nd half and certainly gave the offense chances to get something done, and I have to give them credit for that, although I also take that credit away because this is becoming a pattern with the unit this season of not showing up for a half or playing sloppy, unprepared football for a long enough stretch that the team falls so far behind they need a miracle to catch up. But, when it comes to the interior runs by the Bears and their consistent success with those, that never got cleaned up. I was actually shocked the Bears chose to pass late because IMHO, they didn't need to. All they needed to do was hammer the middle and they'd have been fine and drained the clock.

This Vikings team overall, and defense in particular, just aren't ready for game days this season. They aren't stepping on the field ready to play and when they run into teams that are, they're getting manhandled and embarrassing themselves.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by halfgiz » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:16 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:16 pm
I will say one last thing about Cousins. For all those sitting there saying "he wasnt worth $84 million" (which I saw coming from day 1 the second he had a bad game), do not sit there and act like we could have offered him half that and landed him or that there were truly better options out there. This whole Cousins, Keenum, Teddy talk is getting old.

Bottom line is, Kirk Cousins has started for 3 years in Washington and has been consistent all 3 of those years. Keeping a below average roster around .500 and making the playoffs one of the years. His accuracy has been consistent, his arm has been consistent, his TDs have been consistent, his turnover per year have been consistent, etc.

Case Keenum had 5 years of being a backup, filling in and starting. Those 5 years were terrible to say the least. In those 5 seasons, he has a record of 11-21 and a 35:30 TD/INT. He was a WELL below average QB in this league. Yes, he was great last year. But bottom line is, you dont know what you're getting if you re-sign him long term. I dont want to hear "well he just clicked last year". Was he going to click this year then? With a worse OL and a different OC?? Highly doubtful. He has now proved that we made the right call letting him go given what he has showed in Denver this year. No less any win he has had this year outside of Arizona (which was carried by the defense), he has squeaked out. Beat Seattle by 3, Oakland by 1 and LAC by 1. 3 wins by 5 total points. He's also had FOUR, yes FOUR games of 0 TDs and 1 INT. Denver's offensive line isnt great but it's not nearly as bad as ours. Keenum has been sacked TWO less times than Cousins this year. So praise Keenum's mobility all you want. It doesnt matter. Guys complain every time Cousins gets sacked saying "wish we still had Keenum" or "Keenums mobility is this and that". Keenum was riding the high horse last year. Bailed us out on a lot of dumb, yet lucky throws/plays. Pressure this year has primarily came from the blindside. Reiff was a stud last year, awful this year. If anyone thinks Keenum would somehow beat the Bills with Reiff giving up 12 pressures on his blind side and having no run game, you're dreaming. Same goes for the Saints. Kirk Cousins wasnt the one that fumbled on the 10 and switched the momentum of the game. That was out of his control just like it would have been out of Keenums during that game. Cousins has been getting sacked or pressured before he even gets to the back of his drop. That is not good. Our OL in on pace to set an NFL RECORD for most pressures given up in a season. Not just beat it but shatter it. And some of you think Case Keenum is getting us out of that mess because of his mobility? Yeah ok. He sure cant get Denver out of a mess with his mobility. Keenum has NINE rushes this year in 10 games. NINE. He's actually only ran the ball in 4 of those 10 games. Cousins has ran at least twice in every game except last night. So what does that tell you? Everyone is hanging their hat on a couple Houdini plays made by Keenum last year (just his luck) when Cousins out of all people is running for his life. But Cousins is "immobile"? I think it just shows how much more he is getting pressured than Keenum was.

In the end, Keenum now has 6 below average seasons and 1 good season. You want to give $18 million per year to that? I can guarantee that if and when Keenum would have flopped here if we kept him, we'd all be saying how stupid we are passing up on Cousins. "We're in a SB window and this dumb organization put their trust in Case Keenum" or "Spielman is horrible at finding QBs", etc. I can see it now. And many of you know this is true. Is Cousins playing up to snuff right NOW? No. But if I have the options of Kirk at $28 mill, Keenum at $18 mill or Teddy at $6 mill, I continue to take Cousins any day of the week. Keenum and Teddy are the epitome of inconsistent question mark QBs that will always be no more than average at best. I go with consistency. Not with "lets just throw a patch on the QB position for now so we can save some money in the middle of a SB window". Cousins demolishes both of them from a pure QB standpoint. And it's not even close. So please, can we drop the Cousins/Keenum/Teddy garbage? We chose Cousins. We roll with Cousins. And sit here and watch Keenum crap the bed and become a backup again and Teddy be a career backup.

I've said this before, for as harsh as we as Vikings fans can be on Quarterbacks, KEENUM and TEDDY are guys you're putting faith in and backing? Are you kidding me? Two guys that have had below average careers and/or devastating injuries? We're content with them but want to complain about Kirk Cousins? Come on. Kirk isnt perfect. He's not the best QB in the league. I would say he is about 9th/10th best or so. But those guys arent even floating near that rank. Cousins will have bad games. More will come. But he will have games that show you just how good he is as well. But what bothers me is how loyal fans are to Keenum and Teddy. A guy that had a "miracle" year (literally) and a guy that has done NOTHING for this franchise other than be a good teammate and leader. WOW.

I'm not sitting here "defending Kirk Cousins" or act like he's "my hero". I've said when he has and hasnt played good. But the TALENT level between him, Keenum and Teddy isnt even comparable. So thats why I stick my neck out for Cousins when guys complain about him. Because I know that our other choices, were borderline flops and they have nowhere near the talent of Kirk Cousins. Rant over
I disagree with you about Keenum, until Cousins puts up 13-3 season I will keep that opinion.
And it's fine you stick your neck out for Cousins he has a heck of a arm.

As mentioned I just wonder if Flip puts the RB's in position to succeed.
The RB's was getting 6-7 yards a run in the first quarter.Then Boom...Cook fumbled and that was pretty much the end of the running.
We had a few attemps after but 1st down and up the middle the other team knows what is coming Or Cook running a sweep for a 5 yard loss.
Myself I would like to see more of Murray and then Cook. Kind of like the Murray/Jet tandem last year. I feel Murray has been running hard this year. He's probably not going to take many to the house but positive yards would be a start.

Everybody on the OL had a bad game. Every linemen got beat at least a couple times.
Compton got injured and Isadora come in.

My thoughts are I would like to see Treadwell demoted. Everytime Robison comes in he is making TD's, or even using Beebe more. Treadwell seems more like a head case to me.

A couple of WTF moments
Cousins missing Diggs for a TD.
Cousins throwing to a triple covered Treadwell for a pick 6.
Wilson's personal foul call.

Sometimes I think Zimmer is like Alice in Wonderland...he just doesn't get it.
Flip: it would be nice to give him a passable OL before passing judgment on him.

Last thought...all the good teams puts up lots of points 40 - 50 points.
When is the last time we put up 50 points stomping someone.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:54 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:41 pm
Maelstrom88 wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:47 am
They got bullied and outsmarted last night. The defense was slow to react to the misdirection then mauled in the north South run game way too often. The offensive line was abused by Mack and Hicks. Inexcusable to ever leave Reiff one on one with Mack for more than 2 seconds. Season isn't lost but is an uphill battle.
This.

With how unprepared the defense looked in the 1st half, I almost forgot about how poor they were with simple inside runs all game. The Bears would line up, and when Trubisky wasn't dancing with himself and taking off for massive yardage or the Bears weren't running some "look over here!!!" misdirection play, the running back was just smashing into the line and picking up 4+ on inside runs that never seemed to be defended. I cannot think of a single run other than the one where Kendricks lined up the RB and drilled him (still for a 2 yard gain...) where one of those inside runs was defensed properly or where the Bears offensive line allowed penetration that could have disrupted the runner. Either the Bears played really well in the interior of their offensive line (possible, but not likely against a truly good front 7), or the Vikings just weren't prepared for it based on their defensive line personnel on those plays. And given the consistent success on those plays, I'd have to say it was the latter, and that the Bears knew they could maul the Vikings in those situations and did it like an old school wrestler who keeps pressure on the twisted knee of his opponent.

Defense seemed to clean things up in the 2nd half and certainly gave the offense chances to get something done, and I have to give them credit for that, although I also take that credit away because this is becoming a pattern with the unit this season of not showing up for a half or playing sloppy, unprepared football for a long enough stretch that the team falls so far behind they need a miracle to catch up. But, when it comes to the interior runs by the Bears and their consistent success with those, that never got cleaned up. I was actually shocked the Bears chose to pass late because IMHO, they didn't need to. All they needed to do was hammer the middle and they'd have been fine and drained the clock.

This Vikings team overall, and defense in particular, just aren't ready for game days this season. They aren't stepping on the field ready to play and when they run into teams that are, they're getting manhandled and embarrassing themselves.
I disagree about the defense. This defense went from being ranked 22nd in total defense after the Rams game to 5th. They have tuned in since week 4. We're top of the league in sacks, started to commit more turnovers, shutting opposing offenses down, etc. I mean we held a first ballot hall of famer thats having an MVP season to 120 yards passing, 1 "TD" pass (those stupid flip plays that counts as a TD pass) and 1 INT (his only one of the year). We turned Chicago over 3 times last night and allowed 1 offensive TD. That's damn good defense if you ask me. Run defense was inconsistent but is still top 5 on the year. This defense is playing well no matter what way you're looking at it. Recently, the points allowed makes fans think they arent playing good but it's due to the offense turning the ball over and either giving up a TD that way or pinning our defense inside our own 30.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by soflavike » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:48 pm

The pick to Treadwell was completely baffling to me. If Laquon has three guys around him, then somebody has got to be wide open, or at worst in a mismatch in single coverage. And by "someone", I mean our top two receivers. I can't understand the read on that play, let alone the throw.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:59 pm

halfgiz wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:16 pm


I disagree with you about Keenum, until Cousins puts up 13-3 season I will keep that opinion.
And it's fine you stick your neck out for Cousins he has a heck of a arm.
Yeah Keenums 13-3 season was great. But why is everything else he's done (or I should say, not done) in his career so overlooked? He already has double the losses he had last year in Denver right now. With 6 games to go still. He's gone back to the Keenum of old. He came back down to earth. Four games with zero TD passes and an INT? And he has talent in Denver. So why anyone thinks he'd be doing any better here with a new OC is beyond me. He doesnt touch the Rams this year, doesnt get the comeback Cousins had against GB, dont see him beating Buffalo given how bad the OL played. Maybe would've done better in Chicago given how bad Cousins played. Maybe done ok against the Saints. But lets not act like his accuracy was anything special either. Those pop flies he use to throw up hoping and praying cost us more often than not. It was a main reason the Saints came back in the playoffs. It was a main reason Washington was in a game with us last year (luckily we were already up by so much). He was horrid against Philly. He also lucked out having a Rodger-less Packers team to play twice that year. He ended up making Houdini type plays that sometimes worked and sometimes didnt.

Like I said before, not downgrading his season last year because it was awesome while it lasted but let's be honest, it's never happened in his career other than last year. It's drastically different this year on a fairly talented team. Last season was not ALL luck, but there was a lot of it that's for sure. The playoff game vs the Saints says enough as it is. If he was playing similar or even somewhat similar in Denver, then I could understand where fans are coming from. But that's not the case. He's playing like he's played his whole career, below average. I'm sorry but 6 years of well below average play, DRASTICALLY outweighs one good 13-3 season.
As mentioned I just wonder if Flip puts the RB's in position to succeed.
The RB's was getting 6-7 yards a run in the first quarter.Then Boom...Cook fumbled and that was pretty much the end of the running.
We had a few attemps after but 1st down and up the middle the other team knows what is coming Or Cook running a sweep for a 5 yard loss.
Myself I would like to see more of Murray and then Cook. Kind of like the Murray/Jet tandem last year. I feel Murray has been running hard this year. He's probably not going to take many to the house but positive yards would be a start.
They need to do a better job of getting Cook in space. Like Shurmur did with McKinnon. Cook is a stud. I truly believe that. And everyone knows I'm a big Murray supporter due to playing against him in high school. This could be a result of losing Sparano. He was our run game coordinator. Either way, these RBs are damn good. One of the best tandems in the league. It's not on them to figure it out. It's on Flip and Zim.
Everybody on the OL had a bad game. Every linemen got beat at least a couple times.
Compton got injured and Isadora come in.
From what I remember I thought O'Neill played fairly decent. The rest not so much.
My thoughts are I would like to see Treadwell demoted. Everytime Robison comes in he is making TD's, or even using Beebe more. Treadwell seems more like a head case to me.
Agreed with Beebe and Robinson. Idk with Treadwell. He's played better since early in the year.
A couple of WTF moments
Cousins missing Diggs for a TD.
Cousins throwing to a triple covered Treadwell for a pick 6.
Wilson's personal foul call.
Agreed. Same with Harry's penalty
Sometimes I think Zimmer is like Alice in Wonderland...he just doesn't get it.
Flip: it would be nice to give him a passable OL before passing judgment on him.
I get what you're saying. My only thing is, Flips playcalling in general just isnt great. Especially from a run standpoint. I called multiple runs during that game sitting in front of my TV. It's just obvious. There is no creativity there. And he's relying to heavily on Cousins.
Last thought...all the good teams puts up lots of points 40 - 50 points.
When is the last time we put up 50 points stomping someone.
Again, I hear ya, but those teams (especially LA and KC) have horrid defenses. Now I could be wrong but one think I like about Zim is his adjustments at half and his adjustments the second time we play a team. I remember a few years back Seattle WORKED us in the regular season putting up 38. We then hit the playoffs and we straight up shut them down. Same thing with GB that year. We get stomped at home by them and then beat them for the division at GB when our QB threw for 99 yards. Shut them down defensively. I dont see the Rams putting up another 38 on us if we catch them in the playoffs. Or the Saints given they scored mostly off of our offense effing up. Zim has Sean Peytons offense down to a science. The only reason they had more than half the points on us last year in the playoffs because Keenum tried his stupid pop fly throw and put them inside the 20. Then get a blocked punt which put them in our end. If you think about it, we've played the Saints 3 times in two years. How many TRUE drives did they have where they marched down the field on us from end to end and scored? Not many. Less than most other teams came close to allowing.

I still have a lot of faith in this team just because I know what they are capable of. Onto GB!
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:12 pm

Maybe this will put some of the Keenum garbage to bed other than me giving my opinion. This is PFF's current write up on Keenum. I'm not the only one seeing it!
Case Keenum

Grade: 60.9

Rank: 29

Analysis: The advanced analytics reveal what our very eyes have told us. Case Keenum has been one of the worst starting QBs in the league.

We can talk about the play-calling and the need for the Broncos defense to play better, but until the QB who’s getting paid $18 million this year elevates his game, this team will continue to slide.

Teams have stacked the box against the Broncos, daring them to throw. OC Bill Musgrave has obliged, despite the fact that the team continues to pick up yards at a dominant rate on the ground in such situations, while Keenum flounders.

Denver needs to strive to keep Keenum around 20 passing attempts, with the rushing game accounting for 30 plays. As a goal, that would give Denver their best opportunity. Keenum can’t handle throwing it 30-plus times and remain efficient and productive.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by halfgiz » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:44 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:12 pm
Maybe this will put some of the Keenum garbage to bed other than me giving my opinion. This is PFF's current write up on Keenum. I'm not the only one seeing it!
Case Keenum

Grade: 60.9

Rank: 29

Analysis: The advanced analytics reveal what our very eyes have told us. Case Keenum has been one of the worst starting QBs in the league.

We can talk about the play-calling and the need for the Broncos defense to play better, but until the QB who’s getting paid $18 million this year elevates his game, this team will continue to slide.

Teams have stacked the box against the Broncos, daring them to throw. OC Bill Musgrave has obliged, despite the fact that the team continues to pick up yards at a dominant rate on the ground in such situations, while Keenum flounders.

Denver needs to strive to keep Keenum around 20 passing attempts, with the rushing game accounting for 30 plays. As a goal, that would give Denver their best opportunity. Keenum can’t handle throwing it 30-plus times and remain efficient and productive.
And as I said I will keep my opinion until Cousins puts up a 13-3 record...
Broncos games
Seahawks
Raiders
Chiefs
Jets
Rams
Cardinal
Chiefs
Texans
Chargers
Next up Steelers
2 games he put the team in to position to win but has no control over missed FG.


I'm done....You keep your opinion of Keenum and I will keep mine :govikes:
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