Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

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Pondering Her Percy
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Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:00 am

Instead of sitting here throwing the blame on someone specific, I'm doing an entire team analysis of last night.

QB- Cousins worst game as a Viking. Maybe Buffalo. I dont know. But when the OL is playing bad, usually Cousins is as well. He's not getting much help thats for sure. I truly think we're putting too much on him when we are down. We are abandoning the run game and putting all the weight on his shoulders. And when your OL is as weak as it is, thats not a good recipe for success. I'm not worried about him to be honest. It really could take a year for this offense to truly start clicking. Who knows. I'm not sitting here defending Cousins, but I'm not going to sit here and say he's to blame, or he's not worth $84 million, or we should have kept Teddy or Case. I dont care what the scenario is, I take Cousins at $84 any day of the week over a one year wonder/career backup or a guy that hasnt played an NFL down since 2015 and wasnt all that good even prior to his injury. The problem this year that we didnt have last year, we never put the game on Keenum really at any point because you couldnt trust him. So we consistently ran the ball with a lesser tandem in Murray and McKinnon. We put everything on Cousins if the offense is struggling to move the ball. We dont need to put everything on Cousins. We have talent at RB. I dont see Shurmur doing this if he was here. Flip doesnt have a clue

RB-. I feel bad for these guys to be honest. Cook had a costly fumble but outside of that, WE know these guys are good RBs. But Flip is setting them up for failure with his predictable run offense. And he's also abandoning them before we need to. I'm getting sick of the post game conferences saying "we had to abandon the run because we were behind". You werent down 35-0. It was 14-0 and we had an entire half to get something going.

WRs- They are always going to perform. I would like to keep Robinson on a cheap 1 year deal. He's pretty consistent.

TE's- Rudy has been quiet this year. I wish we would utilize him more. Especially in the red zone

OL- A disaster. Reiff is average but especially this offseason, we need to look at O'Neill at LT. And we need two guards worth a damn. I'd rather cut Remmers since he carries so much cap. Compton has to go. I just dont get why Jones is on the bench. Outside of Elflein and O'Neill, there isnt much promise on this OL. I can tolerate Reiff but I think he needs to move to RT. These guards have to go. Again, Berger was a way bigger loss than many think.

DL- I'm getting sick of seeing so many 4 man rushes. I get it, we have great pass rushing DE's but we are deadly on the blitz and I feel like he never blitz's anymore.

LB- I like how Wilson has filled in. Really no need for Barr.

DBs- They've been lights out lately. Waynes has turned into a shut down type CB. Alexander played well. Our safeties are studs. I'm almost thinking just cut Sendejo or trade him. I was a big Sendejo hater for a long time but he's really been a solid safety. However, he carries some cap. Harris is a stud.

Coaches:

Zim- He's doing his job IMO. Especially from a defensive standpoint. Outside of really the Rams, this defense has been legit all year and is currently #5 in total D. However, this offense needs to get figured out. It was the complete opposite early on. Bottom line, he's the best coach we've had in a long time. Anyone that says he should be fired is just blowing smoke.

Flip- Already fed up here. He's brought no creativity to this offense and relies on Cousins too much. His run game is horrid. Good when he keeps pounding it, but terrible when we are losing. I'm starting to think he was very overrated. Our run game is so predictable. It's obvious when we're going to throw or what we are going to do when we're down. His sole focus is around Cousins/Thielen/Diggs. He's taken Rudy out of the game and has taken our RBs out of the game. He's putting Cousins under center more often with a bad OL. There is just nothing about his play-calling I like.


Overall, this team is good. This defense is still legit. This offense could be better with better game planning on Flips part. I'm not worried and it could take us a year to get going. But things need to be fixed. We dont have Asiata and Mckinnon back there. We have talent. USE IT! We are putting Cousins in bad positions. It's frustrating. My biggest gripe right now is Flip. He needs to figure this out. Period.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:36 am

Yeah, I have to agree about DeFilippo. And that's hard for me because I thought he was a truly great hire. I thought we'd be seeing RPOs and lots of innovation. Basically Philly last year. But what we're seeing is that Philly simply had a GREAT offensive line, and we do not. Yet DeFilippo is running things here like we do. I'm at a loss.

Here's the weird thing about last night that many may not agree with -- WE SHOULD HAVE WON THE GAME.

The early fumble was a crusher. The offense was moving the ball. We had a great chance to get an early lead after the defense stiffened and only allowed a field goal. Dalvin is great, but you just can't lose the ball there.

Of course, the pick-six was just awful. I really like Cousins, but that's two games in a row that he's thrown interceptions into heavy traffic. He's better than that, and he's got to play better than that. There's just no excuse.

Like the New Orleans game, if we don't make those turnovers, there's a very good chance we win this game.

The defense was certainly good enough to win last night. A tough first half as far as yardage, but they minimized the damage and really played well in the second half. The "vaunted" Matt Nagy offense did essentially nothing for the last 30 minutes of the game, despite the fact that the stupid NBC announcing team couldn't stop talking about them like they were the second coming of The Greatest Show on Turf. In the end, Chicago ended up with a very Bears-like 308 total yards and exactly one offensive touchdown. Tarik Cohen did very little, and we had seven tackles for loss. Unfortunately, we got hurt by Trubisky's running ... and the God-awful roughing call against Harrison Smith.

The "playoffs" start now. If this team is going to make any noise, there can't be any more games like last night. Need to run the table.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by Maelstrom88 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:47 am

They got bullied and outsmarted last night. The defense was slow to react to the misdirection then mauled in the north South run game way too often. The offensive line was abused by Mack and Hicks. Inexcusable to ever leave Reiff one on one with Mack for more than 2 seconds. Season isn't lost but is an uphill battle.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:12 am

Kapp, I agree we should have won. I am so sick of should have winning. At some point Zimmer's teams need to win these games and not just be close. We haven't had a coach win these games since Denny's late years. There is no killer instinct in this team and I don't trust Zimmer to ever figure it out.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by Mothman » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:13 am

My post-game thoughts:

The Vikings were inexcusably unprepared and it showed.

Cousins was brutal. He's showing us pretty clearly this season that he's not worth what they paid him. The INTs were both critical, unforced errors. Sitting there in the same stadium where I saw Jay Cutler make throws like that quite a few times, it was hard not to make the comparison. When the entire crowd reacts in bewilderment to an INT throw, you know it's really bad.

The OL still stinks.

The coaching staff wasn't even bright enough to have someone spy on Trubisky in the first half, despite his obvious ability to make plays with his legs. That was particularly inexcusable since the Vikes head coach is supposed to be a great defensive mind.

The tackling was lousy. The team committed stupid penalties and mistakes that a veteran team shouldn't be making.

The running game was non-existent. A lot of that's on the OL.

DeFilippo's playcalling was baffling at times and the Vikes didn't look like they had a well-constructed game plan for attacking the Bears who admittedly, have a good defense.

The Vikes WRs looked solid, as usual and Harris' 2 INTs really helped keep the game competitive (his first pick was great) but the defense has to rise to the occasion in a big game like this and they didn't do it.

Key stat:
Minnesota: 22 rushing yards
Chicago: 148 rushing yards

The Bears ended up with a big advantage in time of possession.

The officiating was pretty poor and it hurt both teams.

Overall, Chicago played with more enthusiasm, were better-coached and appeared better prepared. They basically dominated the game until it was out of reach. The Vikes made it interesting late but I'm starting to think "garbage time is Cousins' time!" ;)

I know I'm being negative but the Vikes are mediocre (again) and 5 years into the over-praised, overrated, Spielman/Zimmer era they should be a hell of a lot better. Zimmer looks more and more like exactly what I feared he'd be from the start: a Marvin Lewis type who can field teams that are good enough to earn him praise and keep his job but that never really look like they have a realistic shot to win it all. he reminds of Brad Childress too: conservative and overmatched against well-coached opponents. After 5 years of neglecting the offensive line, playing musical quarterbacks and delivering too many disappointing performances like yesterday's, I've seen enough. This is the latest variation on a formula for mediocrity we've often seen from this franchise over the last few decades. On top of that, if they can't muster a better performance than yesterday's with first place on the line and an extra week to prepare, than I say screw it: start making plans for new management and coaching at the end of the season.

I'm not just venting. I've had it. This team needs to seek out some minds that really understand the contemporary game (and the importance of a $#@# offensive line) and start building something better.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by Mothman » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:16 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:12 am
Kapp, I agree we should have won.
I can't agree with you guys on that. They shouldn't have won that game. They were dominated in the first half and played about even in the second.
I am so sick of should have winning. At some point Zimmer's teams need to win these games and not just be close. We haven't had a coach win these games since Denny's late years. There is no killer instinct in this team and I don't trust Zimmer to ever figure it out.
He won't figure it out. After 4.5 years, we've seen who he is as a head coach and what kind of teams he can field.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by mansquatch » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:30 am

We really miss Pat Shurmer, that is really what this came down to. Everyone knew the Vikings OL was/is down this year from last year and everyone knew the Bears DL was going to be the best we'll face all season. Why they couldn't game plan around that is just mind boggling. I'm really not happy with DeFelippo at all this year. There have been several games where the play calling and game planning have been just completely out of sync with what the team needs and is best at doing. This game was very similar to what happened against Buffalo in that the game plan completely failed to account for the ferocity of the defensive front we'd be facing. Inexcusable this late in the season.

You can run the quick passing stuff to slow down the pass rush. You can go uptempo to tire out the defense. We didn't do any of that until the 4th quarter. We have Dalvin freaking Cook and the two best WR in the stinking league and we couldn't go up tempo or run a quick passing game. That we didn't see more of this was just ridiculous. This offense has been terrible at managing down and distance all season and it really showed yesterday.

It really felt like the coaching staff out smarted itself last night. The Bears didn't do anything unique or innovative, they just bullied a team that didn't come in prepared for what they'd be facing.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:41 am

Mothman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:16 am
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:12 am
Kapp, I agree we should have won.
I can't agree with you guys on that. They shouldn't have won that game. They were dominated in the first half and played about even in the second.
I am so sick of should have winning. At some point Zimmer's teams need to win these games and not just be close. We haven't had a coach win these games since Denny's late years. There is no killer instinct in this team and I don't trust Zimmer to ever figure it out.
He won't figure it out. After 4.5 years, we've seen who he is as a head coach and what kind of teams he can field.
Let me rephrase. We could have won. Had it not been for the pick six or the cook fumble, etc. I just get sick if these games. New England rarely has games like this. New Orleans rarely has games like this. Good teams don't make a habit of this and yet the Vikings have.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by akvikingsfan » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:43 am

Mothman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:16 am

He won't figure it out. After 4.5 years, we've seen who he is as a head coach and what kind of teams he can field.
I completely agree. Zim was a great defensive mind (I say was because it appears OCs have figured out his double gap scheme and he hasn't adjusted), but he isn't cut out to be a head coach. If he sticks around, it will be more of the same. Fielding an above average defense that is held back by poor offense. This team needs a young coach who is motivated and willing to take risks. Not this same KAO that we've seen since Tice was canned.

Rick is the one bigger culprit than Zimmer though. He has allowed the offensive line to be neglected for years, passing on potential studs to draft defensive players, signing the wrong linemen in free agency, and refusing to have any real depth on the line. Plus, as far as I'm concerned the whole Cousins deal has been a bust and will screw the team going forward. We will be facing a cap crisis for the next three years and will likely end up having to let some of stars that Zim and Rick love so much on defense walk due to this piss poor contract. I still stand by my post from when most of the board wanted Cousins prior to free agency:
akvikingsfan wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:11 am
Can someone please fill me in on why we’re so fascinated by Cousins? He had an outstanding year in 2016 (almost 5,000 yards) and two other 4,000 yard seasons. But he doesn’t win. In those three seasons the Skins were 9-7, 8-7-1, and 7-9. I don’t think he’s worth the kind of money people are talking about and I believe his stats have been inflated from putting up yards late in games when the Skins were losing (I don’t know this for a fact, it’s an assumption I’m making), similar to Stafford. Now, I don’t follow the Skins and haven’t watched many of their games, so if there’s something I’m missing please let me know, but I just don’t see why we want to spend $20mil/year on him.
Now, I would like to add that the same has happened here as in Washington: Kirk doesn't win games. All the games the Vikings have won this season, they would have won with Teddy, Sam, or Case. Kirk has padded his stats in garbage time. When the game matters, Kirk sucks.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by Mothman » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:51 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:41 am
Let me rephrase. We could have won. Had it not been for the pick six or the cook fumble, etc. I just get sick if these games. New England rarely has games like this. New Orleans rarely has games like this. Good teams don't make a habit of this and yet the Vikings have.
That says it all, doesn't it?

I agree that they could have won. It was a winnable game.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by allday1991 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:58 am

No one worried about Cook? Dude started his rookie season on firr and has been a dud this year. Often injuried, fumbles in big moments (49ers game, bears). Like the guy hasnt been a difference maker at all and our best games running the ball he was on the bench. Final thought, our cbs werent shut down, especially waynes who gave up two 3 and long plays.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by mansquatch » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:59 am

The "Zimmer Issue" at play here wasn't the defense or the defense being figured out. The Defense held Chicago to 17 points yesterday in the face of a very lopsided time of possession. Holding the other team to 17 points is usually a win. The "Zimmer Issue" was OC choice. Similar to Turner, he has again put all his eggs in the offensive basket of a guy who so far has had some bad performances. Zimmer needs to do a better job of managing DeFelippo.

This season is shaping up to be similar to 2016, but for somewhat different reasons. We've had a kicking fiasco. (Not as bad as 2016) We've had an OL decimated by injuries. (Not as bad as 16, but bad) Unlike 2016 we do not have a OC "transition" to someone who will call plays that will work for the unit on the field. Instead we've got a first year OC who is not yet coaching at the level the team needs. We are also better at QB in 18 than we were in 16.

Zimmer needs to get DeFelippo coached up, assuming he can.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:19 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:41 am
Mothman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:16 am


I can't agree with you guys on that. They shouldn't have won that game. They were dominated in the first half and played about even in the second.



He won't figure it out. After 4.5 years, we've seen who he is as a head coach and what kind of teams he can field.
Let me rephrase. We could have won. Had it not been for the pick six or the cook fumble, etc. I just get sick if these games. New England rarely has games like this. New Orleans rarely has games like this. Good teams don't make a habit of this and yet the Vikings have.
The Patriots have been blown out by the Lions and Titans. Pretty sure they have games like that.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:24 am

Mothman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:13 am
My post-game thoughts:

The Vikings were inexcusably unprepared and it showed.

Cousins was brutal. He's showing us pretty clearly this season that he's not worth what they paid him. The INTs were both critical, unforced errors. Sitting there in the same stadium where I saw Jay Cutler make throws like that quite a few times, it was hard not to make the comparison. When the entire crowd reacts in bewilderment to an INT throw, you know it's really bad.

The OL still stinks.

The coaching staff wasn't even bright enough to have someone spy on Trubisky in the first half, despite his obvious ability to make plays with his legs. That was particularly inexcusable since the Vikes head coach is supposed to be a great defensive mind.

The tackling was lousy. The team committed stupid penalties and mistakes that a veteran team shouldn't be making.

The running game was non-existent. A lot of that's on the OL.

DeFilippo's playcalling was baffling at times and the Vikes didn't look like they had a well-constructed game plan for attacking the Bears who admittedly, have a good defense.

The Vikes WRs looked solid, as usual and Harris' 2 INTs really helped keep the game competitive (his first pick was great) but the defense has to rise to the occasion in a big game like this and they didn't do it.

Key stat:
Minnesota: 22 rushing yards
Chicago: 148 rushing yards

The Bears ended up with a big advantage in time of possession.

The officiating was pretty poor and it hurt both teams.

Overall, Chicago played with more enthusiasm, were better-coached and appeared better prepared. They basically dominated the game until it was out of reach. The Vikes made it interesting late but I'm starting to think "garbage time is Cousins' time!" ;)

I know I'm being negative but the Vikes are mediocre (again) and 5 years into the over-praised, overrated, Spielman/Zimmer era they should be a hell of a lot better. Zimmer looks more and more like exactly what I feared he'd be from the start: a Marvin Lewis type who can field teams that are good enough to earn him praise and keep his job but that never really look like they have a realistic shot to win it all. he reminds of Brad Childress too: conservative and overmatched against well-coached opponents. After 5 years of neglecting the offensive line, playing musical quarterbacks and delivering too many disappointing performances like yesterday's, I've seen enough. This is the latest variation on a formula for mediocrity we've often seen from this franchise over the last few decades. On top of that, if they can't muster a better performance than yesterday's with first place on the line and an extra week to prepare, than I say screw it: start making plans for new management and coaching at the end of the season.

I'm not just venting. I've had it. This team needs to seek out some minds that really understand the contemporary game (and the importance of a $#@# offensive line) and start building something better.
Sorry you had a bad time at the game.

I hope you're wrong.
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Re: Vikings-Bears Post Game Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:28 am

allday1991 wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:58 am
No one worried about Cook? Dude started his rookie season on firr and has been a dud this year. Often injuried, fumbles in big moments (49ers game, bears). Like the guy hasnt been a difference maker at all and our best games running the ball he was on the bench. Final thought, our cbs werent shut down, especially waynes who gave up two 3 and long plays.
No not worried. Every game he's played in outside of Detroit and SF, we've had to abandon the run. So yeah, when you arent getting carries, you arent putting up numbers. Simple as that.

If you have actually paid attention to Waynes this year, he's been shutting guys down. Especially since our D has turned it around. According to PFF, after the Rams game, Waynes has been one of the top corners in the NFL since week 5. And has also been up there in run defense as well. Lets get past the Trae Waynes complaining. He's been better than Rhodes all year and has been allowing next to nothing in man coverage since week 5
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