O-Line vs. QB

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PacificNorseWest
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Re: O-Line vs. QB

Post by PacificNorseWest » Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:22 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:20 pm
PacificNorseWest wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:59 pm
He may have started 1 game soon after having been traded for. Could be wrong though.
Well can he be any worse than what we have? This OL thing gets old.
The question pertained specifically to putting him at Center and moving Elflein over. Whether he should get an opportunity somewhere or not is one thing, but I don't think he should get that opportunity at Center given how well Elflein has performed at that spot. He's been the one constant bright spot since last season.
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Re: O-Line vs. QB

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:20 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:49 pm


The Jags and Eagles are bad teams? What? They are two teams that are loaded with talent but aren’t putting it together. The eagles DBs have been destroyed by injuries and the jags are continuing to be held back by Bortles. Outside of that, these teams are very talented. The raiders are a bad team. The 49ers are a bad team. The eagles and jags are far from being “bad” teams dude. You’re acting like they need to fill tons of holes. They have a couple holes, max. Not hard to fix.

As for the OL, how often are big money free agent lineman making a difference anymore?? They’re not. We already have a ton of money invested in Reiff and Remmers. Now we need to invest more? No. We just paid $57 million for an average left tackle. An average at best RG/RT is getting paid $30+ in Remmers. You’re ok with paying these average offensive lineman big money but you’re not ok with paying the best QB to touch the market in a long time big money? Instead, settle for below average QBs like Teddy and Keenum? Sorry but that doesn’t make any sense. Everyone raves about the cowboys OL and they built entirely through the draft. Smith, Martin, Frederick and Williams were all drafted by them. Collins was signed as an UDFA right after the draft.
The Jags and Eagles are bad teams this year and up against the cap next year. It is one thing to be in the hunt for a SB and strapped for cap, but they have taken a step back after great 2017 seasons and have very little cap to fix it. The good news for the Eagles is they will likely be able to jettison Foles to some desperate team and save 13.6 million. The Jags issues are more than just at QB, a QB they are pretty much stuck with next season as they can only save 4.5 of his 21 million cap hit.

I agree the best way to build the Oline is through the draft, the problem is, that tends to take time, time the Vikings don't really have. Plus, I don't think Spielman feels that way, although he doesn't have much of a choice now.
Guys like Solder, Wagner, Pugh, etc arent making much of difference right now. Along with Reiff, Remmers and many others. You don’t build an offensive line through free agency. We have two big money free agents. We need to draft one early at least. If we go into next year with Reiff, 1st round pick, Elflein, mid range FA or mid rounder, and O’Neill. I’m good with an OL like that. And it’s much cheaper and more effective
This plan doesn't improve the line enough in my opinion. Still just average at best, and I really think we need a great one to win it all.
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Re: O-Line vs. QB

Post by PurpleMustReign » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:01 pm

PacificNorseWest wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:22 pm
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:20 pm

Well can he be any worse than what we have? This OL thing gets old.
The question pertained specifically to putting him at Center and moving Elflein over. Whether he should get an opportunity somewhere or not is one thing, but I don't think he should get that opportunity at Center given how well Elflein has performed at that spot. He's been the one constant bright spot since last season.
I agree. Jones also played guard right?
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Re: O-Line vs. QB

Post by dkoby » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:15 am

I think consistency is one of the most important ingredient that equals success in this league.
The inconsistency at key coaching positions on this team is probably most to blame for the current record.

We’ve had 3 different offensive coordinators in 3 years. Norv quit, Shurmer got a HC gig and now we are on our 3rd OC in the third year. Add in a new QB on his first year and a traumatic change at the OL coaching position, face a brutal schedule and you have the 2018 Vikings.
Yes the OL isn’t that great, but Cousins does 2 things that is detrimental. His “clock” is about a half second too slow and holds onto the ball a half second too long. Couple that with his inaccuracies when his feet aren’t set just right and you get bad picks.
He’s made some unbelievably accurate throws this year, and some WTF throws this year.

Would like to see more no huddle and we should have screen gamed the bears to death, that’s what you do to a front line like that.

BTW, Hicks on the bears is an absolute animal.
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Re: O-Line vs. QB

Post by StumpHunter » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:54 pm

dkoby wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:15 am
I think consistency is one of the most important ingredient that equals success in this league.
The inconsistency at key coaching positions on this team is probably most to blame for the current record.

We’ve had 3 different offensive coordinators in 3 years. Norv quit, Shurmer got a HC gig and now we are on our 3rd OC in the third year. Add in a new QB on his first year and a traumatic change at the OL coaching position, face a brutal schedule and you have the 2018 Vikings.
Yes the OL isn’t that great, but Cousins does 2 things that is detrimental. His “clock” is about a half second too slow and holds onto the ball a half second too long. Couple that with his inaccuracies when his feet aren’t set just right and you get bad picks.
He’s made some unbelievably accurate throws this year, and some WTF throws this year.

Would like to see more no huddle and we should have screen gamed the bears to death, that’s what you do to a front line like that.

BTW, Hicks on the bears is an absolute animal.
Couldn't agree more. Cousins was 5th in time to throw on Sunday at 2.96 and was only sacked 2 times. 2.96 is a really long time for a QB who doesn't scramble a lot.

The problem with the offense on Sunday was not the pass protection. They couldn't get the run game going and became predictable in the play calling. Plus the QB looked completely outmatched and confused by the Bears D.
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Re: O-Line vs. QB

Post by S197 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:02 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:38 pm
Has Jones played at all this season?
He played the first 3 games while Elflein was out.
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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: O-Line vs. QB

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:26 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:20 pm

The Jags and Eagles are bad teams this year and up against the cap next year. It is one thing to be in the hunt for a SB and strapped for cap, but they have taken a step back after great 2017 seasons and have very little cap to fix it. The good news for the Eagles is they will likely be able to jettison Foles to some desperate team and save 13.6 million. The Jags issues are more than just at QB, a QB they are pretty much stuck with next season as they can only save 4.5 of his 21 million cap hit.
Again, they’re mainly bad teams this year due to a few things. Eagles DBs being injured and Bortles being awful. I’ll say it again, the raiders are a bad team. They have next to no talent on the roster. That’s not the case with Jacksonville or Philly. Not even close. They don’t need much cap to figure out their problems. Many of it can be fixed by drafting well. Not sure why you don’t understand that.
I agree the best way to build the Oline is through the draft, the problem is, that tends to take time, time the Vikings don't really have. Plus, I don't think Spielman feels that way, although he doesn't have much of a choice now.
I’m starting to think you’re just arguing now with little purpose or point behind it. It doesn’t take time given that we already have 3 decent to solid lineman starting in Reiff, O’Neill and Elflein. We need two guards dude. Why do we need all this cap to fix that problem? We can draft one early, sign a middle level FA. Or draft one early and draft one mid round. You’re acting like we need a complete rebuild on the OL. That’s not the case.

This plan doesn't improve the line enough in my opinion. Still just average at best, and I really think we need a great one to win it all.
How does that not improve it? Do you even have a plan? Do you even have a clue who will be FA this year for OL? What are you arguing? Best part about that, is if we draft well at guard this year, we have way less money invested and have a solid OL. But instead you think we need to invest a bunch of money into it to make it any good. Dallas drafted every OL. Tennessee drafted the majority of their top OL. Bottom line is, we need 2 guards. We have two solid tackles and a good C. So how does drafting not make it solid? Who in FA do we “need” that will solve our problems? And who are we possibly going to bench or cut out of Reiff, O’Neill and Elflein?? Clearly none. So it’s two guards. You don’t need millions to fix that. History alone will easily tell you that.
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Re: O-Line vs. QB

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:30 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:26 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:20 pm

The Jags and Eagles are bad teams this year and up against the cap next year. It is one thing to be in the hunt for a SB and strapped for cap, but they have taken a step back after great 2017 seasons and have very little cap to fix it. The good news for the Eagles is they will likely be able to jettison Foles to some desperate team and save 13.6 million. The Jags issues are more than just at QB, a QB they are pretty much stuck with next season as they can only save 4.5 of his 21 million cap hit.
Again, they’re mainly bad teams this year due to a few things. Eagles DBs being injured and Bortles being awful. I’ll say it again, the raiders are a bad team. They have next to no talent on the roster. That’s not the case with Jacksonville or Philly. Not even close. They don’t need much cap to figure out their problems. Many of it can be fixed by drafting well. Not sure why you don’t understand that.
I agree the best way to build the Oline is through the draft, the problem is, that tends to take time, time the Vikings don't really have. Plus, I don't think Spielman feels that way, although he doesn't have much of a choice now.
I’m starting to think you’re just arguing now with little purpose or point behind it. It doesn’t take time given that we already have 3 decent to solid lineman starting in Reiff, O’Neill and Elflein. We need two guards dude. Why do we need all this cap to fix that problem? We can draft one early, sign a middle level FA. Or draft one early and draft one mid round. You’re acting like we need a complete rebuild on the OL. That’s not the case.

This plan doesn't improve the line enough in my opinion. Still just average at best, and I really think we need a great one to win it all.
How does that not improve it? Do you even have a plan? Do you even have a clue who will be FA this year for OL? What are you arguing? Best part about that, is if we draft well at guard this year, we have way less money invested and have a solid OL. But instead you think we need to invest a bunch of money into it to make it any good. Dallas drafted every OL. Tennessee drafted the majority of their top OL. Bottom line is, we need 2 guards. We have two solid tackles and a good C. So how does drafting not make it solid? Who in FA do we “need” that will solve our problems? And who are we possibly going to bench or cut out of Reiff, O’Neill and Elflein?? Clearly none. So it’s two guards. You don’t need millions to fix that. History alone will easily tell you that.
Please try to read posts before responding. I said it doesn't improve it enough, not that it wouldn't improve. You would have a below average to average LT in Reif, a RG or LG who is a mid-tier FA (mediocre), and a rookie LG or RG who would likely need time to fully acclimate to the NFL. Even if O'Niell turns into a great lineman, that is not a line that is good enough to protect our QB for the amount of time he needs to be successful. It would likely also not improve the run blocking enough to take the pressure off of the passing game. It is at best an average line. An improvement, but still not good enough. That is the best case scenario in my opinion, average.

I honestly don't have a plan for improving this line with how little cap we have to spend, and with how many spots need to be improved. Obviously they will need to do it through the draft, but it does take time to improve that way. No team hits on 100% of their picks, and even first rounders are misses. So you may draft one really good LG in this year's draft, or we may draft no good Olinemen, or a project guy who needs a year or two but will become good. It takes time, and I am not sure why you are arguing it won't.

The Jags and Eagles are bad teams this year. Yes their are worse teams than them, but that doesn't change the fact that they aren't good. Eagles could get better quick, but I think we are going to see a quick decline in Jacksonville unless they can draft a really good QB in this year's draft. Bortles is so bad and they are stuck with him. :puke:
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