Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:47 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:07 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:07 pm


🙄dude give it a rest. Nobody is saying that just because Cousins has good stats he’s the next Tom Brady. But bottom line is, you and every other fan on this board knows that cousins didn’t lose us the rams game or tie the GB game. He was the only reason we were in those games. To point the finger at Cousins for those two games is asinine. Which is exactly why I’m not judging him by record. He’s been one of the better QBs in the league this year. No question about it.

And at the end you say “team success”. Exactly my point. Why are we basing how good Cousins is off our record? Is he the “team”. Does he play defense and special teams? No. So stop narrowing everything down to be cousins fault.

And not sure why you fixed my comment. Keenum was a one year wonder. He’s proved it. He’s literally never been good outside of last year. And will gradually make his way to being a backup again. So let’s get past that
Agree that Keenum was a one year wonder. In this offense with Diggs and Thielen to throw too, he looked like an MVP and put up almost the same per pass stats. What does that say about Cousins current season? How did he look when one of those guys wasn't in the lineup today?

I never said Cousins was responsible for the loss and tie versus the Packers, I am actually giving him credit for the tie and assume a lesser QB would have gotten us a loss. As for the Rams game, I am merely saying it does not matter how many yards and TDs he threw against them. In the end it was a loss, and a loss by 7 versus a loss by 20 doesn't matter. So .5 win differential.
Again, use your per pass stat all you want, Diggs and Thielen will shatter last years numbers because they have a better QB throwing to them. If you're siding with him on the GB tie, how are you not with the Rams game. It's not like he was putting up garbage time stats. We put up 31 points and he threw for 4 TDs and 400+ yards. How about the defense stops them. How is that on Cousins. I can guarantee Teddy doesnt go toe to toe with the Rams and put up 31 points. So thats what makes no sense to me
0 x
Image

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:13 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:53 pm
I think the big change is we're going from a number of game manager type QBs who limited mistakes to Cousins who is a gunslinger high risk/reward type of QB. Teddy and Case were guys who didn't take a lot of risk and rarely turned the ball over. Cousins is a guy always trying to make a play, which leads to some fantastic throws but also some really ugly turnovers.

Hopefully over time Cousins will realize he doesn't need to shoulder everything with this team and it's okay to throw the ball away or tuck and run sometimes.
Very good point. Teddy was the definition of a game manager IMO. Case was a playmaker but my thing with Case was the "lob" type throws. Sometimes he got very lucky (specifically the drive vs the saints in the playoffs that Thielen caught), but other times they got picked (saints game, Redskins game, etc.). Zim even said it was like Keenum was riding the good luck train most of the year. I think it was just that. Nick Foles won the Eagles a super bowl, but Nick Foles still isnt a good QB and there is a reason he isnt starting in this league. Keenum is very similar.

Keenums INTs looked a lot worse than Cousins picks have so far. Lets put it this way, Cousins has 5 INTs on the year. I would say 2 of them were truly his fault (Arizona, Detroit). The other 3 consisted of a Murray drop vs Buffalo, Treadwell drop vs GB and Diggs stopping his route vs NO. Keenum's picks were usually pretty brutal
0 x
Image

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:15 pm

halfgiz wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:38 pm
Cousins has a much better arm than Case judging by some of the throws he has made this season.
The only knock I have on Cousins is he also has 6 fumbles this season.

Myself I'm not quite ready to call Case a 1 year wonder. Denver has had a tough schedule this season. Chiefs they have played twice,Rams,Saints,Ravens.
He had a bad game against the Raiders. 2 games he put the team in a position to win, but has no control over the kicker. And Denver's D hasn't been the same since they let Wade Phillips go.
What we got from Case last year was truly a bargain at 2 million for the season.
Oh yeah what we got last year was a huge bargain. But I dont blame Zimmer one bit not trusting him. I'd be the same way. His career was not very good up until last year. And he was going to ask for a lot more money than he was making the previous year. We made the right move for sure IMO
0 x
Image

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11459
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by S197 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:07 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:44 am
YikesVikes wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:59 pm


I don't agree but there is some reason why that would be better for this team. We are about to lose a lot of good players to FA due to our QB contract. I think it was worth it but unless we can replace these guys, we might end up breaking even.
Who are we losing? We should have enough for another big contract by the offseason. It will come down to Barr and Richardson and I take Richardson any day of the week. Outside of that, guys we could possibly lose are Murray, Jones, Easton, Sherels, Johnson, Compton, Iloka (who isnt playing anyways), Robinson, Harris, and a slew of backups. A decent amount of these guys will be kept on small one year deals. But we are losing nobody "big" due to Cousins contract. Most of our big time players are signed through 2020, including Cousins. So I dont buy that argument.
The other big factor is Thielen is going to need a new contract. That's the one that will likely throw a wrench in everything. I'd like to see Harris retained, possibly over Sendejo. Tom Johnson is definitely making a case to be on this team as well.

If I had to guess, I'd say we likely lose Barr, Everson, and Rudolph. The last two will at minimum need to restructure to stay.
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:14 pm

S197 wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:07 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:44 am


Who are we losing? We should have enough for another big contract by the offseason. It will come down to Barr and Richardson and I take Richardson any day of the week. Outside of that, guys we could possibly lose are Murray, Jones, Easton, Sherels, Johnson, Compton, Iloka (who isnt playing anyways), Robinson, Harris, and a slew of backups. A decent amount of these guys will be kept on small one year deals. But we are losing nobody "big" due to Cousins contract. Most of our big time players are signed through 2020, including Cousins. So I dont buy that argument.
The other big factor is Thielen is going to need a new contract. That's the one that will likely throw a wrench in everything. I'd like to see Harris retained, possibly over Sendejo. Tom Johnson is definitely making a case to be on this team as well.

If I had to guess, I'd say we likely lose Barr, Everson, and Rudolph. The last two will at minimum need to restructure to stay.
If Everson proves to be fine this year and through the offseason and continues to produce, I think it's crazy to get rid of him. I could see Rudolph but idk if they will let him go just yet. Barr is a goner IMO.

As for Thielen, he still has two years left after this year. Granted he is well underpaid, but I can guarantee, he's not going begging for a new contract and know it could effect this team. Brady has taken pay cuts and restructures every year for the Pats so they can make the team as best as they can. Thielen is the same type of player. Very unselfish, grew up a Vikings fan, wants nothing but a Super Bowl and obviously loves his QB. He wont need a new contract until this one gets close to expiring.
0 x
Image

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11459
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by S197 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:29 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:14 pm
S197 wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:07 pm


The other big factor is Thielen is going to need a new contract. That's the one that will likely throw a wrench in everything. I'd like to see Harris retained, possibly over Sendejo. Tom Johnson is definitely making a case to be on this team as well.

If I had to guess, I'd say we likely lose Barr, Everson, and Rudolph. The last two will at minimum need to restructure to stay.
If Everson proves to be fine this year and through the offseason and continues to produce, I think it's crazy to get rid of him. I could see Rudolph but idk if they will let him go just yet. Barr is a goner IMO.

As for Thielen, he still has two years left after this year. Granted he is well underpaid, but I can guarantee, he's not going begging for a new contract and know it could effect this team. Brady has taken pay cuts and restructures every year for the Pats so they can make the team as best as they can. Thielen is the same type of player. Very unselfish, grew up a Vikings fan, wants nothing but a Super Bowl and obviously loves his QB. He wont need a new contract until this one gets close to expiring.
Brady has made his money and even under restructured terms makes 3x as much as Thielen. It's a very apples/oranges comparison. Thielen is a great guy with a great story but it's a lot to ask of him to take such a hometown discount. Paying one of the best WR's only $4M next year isn't going to fly.
0 x

User avatar
808vikingsfan
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3502
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:45 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:47 pm

S197 wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:29 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:14 pm


If Everson proves to be fine this year and through the offseason and continues to produce, I think it's crazy to get rid of him. I could see Rudolph but idk if they will let him go just yet. Barr is a goner IMO.

As for Thielen, he still has two years left after this year. Granted he is well underpaid, but I can guarantee, he's not going begging for a new contract and know it could effect this team. Brady has taken pay cuts and restructures every year for the Pats so they can make the team as best as they can. Thielen is the same type of player. Very unselfish, grew up a Vikings fan, wants nothing but a Super Bowl and obviously loves his QB. He wont need a new contract until this one gets close to expiring.
Brady has made his money and even under restructured terms makes 3x as much as Thielen. It's a very apples/oranges comparison. Thielen is a great guy with a great story but it's a lot to ask of him to take such a hometown discount. Paying one of the best WR's only $4M next year isn't going to fly.
Agree. It's a business. One play and his career could end. He has to think of his growing family. We all saw how not having one of the WR duo affects the passing game. If there's a perfect time for Adam to get his, it's now.
0 x
Joined: Aug 2006
Deleted: Sept 12 2014
Reborn: Sept 17 2014

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:10 am

S197 wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:29 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:14 pm


If Everson proves to be fine this year and through the offseason and continues to produce, I think it's crazy to get rid of him. I could see Rudolph but idk if they will let him go just yet. Barr is a goner IMO.

As for Thielen, he still has two years left after this year. Granted he is well underpaid, but I can guarantee, he's not going begging for a new contract and know it could effect this team. Brady has taken pay cuts and restructures every year for the Pats so they can make the team as best as they can. Thielen is the same type of player. Very unselfish, grew up a Vikings fan, wants nothing but a Super Bowl and obviously loves his QB. He wont need a new contract until this one gets close to expiring.
Brady has made his money and even under restructured terms makes 3x as much as Thielen. It's a very apples/oranges comparison. Thielen is a great guy with a great story but it's a lot to ask of him to take such a hometown discount. Paying one of the best WR's only $4M next year isn't going to fly.
You could be right. I just have a feeling it wont be until the following year where they give him a new contract. I can see him settling for some reason but who knows
0 x
Image

YikesVikes
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:47 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:44 am
YikesVikes wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:59 pm


I don't agree but there is some reason why that would be better for this team. We are about to lose a lot of good players to FA due to our QB contract. I think it was worth it but unless we can replace these guys, we might end up breaking even.
Who are we losing? We should have enough for another big contract by the offseason. It will come down to Barr and Richardson and I take Richardson any day of the week. Outside of that, guys we could possibly lose are Murray, Jones, Easton, Sherels, Johnson, Compton, Iloka (who isnt playing anyways), Robinson, Harris, and a slew of backups. A decent amount of these guys will be kept on small one year deals. But we are losing nobody "big" due to Cousins contract. Most of our big time players are signed through 2020, including Cousins. So I dont buy that argument.
I'm not sure how you can spin it any other way. I didn't even add Waynes playing on the last year of his deal.

Our starting DT.
Back up DT
Starting OLB
Starting LG
Back both back-up Safeties
Punt Return
Swing Tackle
Starting FB
Starting K
Starting Punter

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents ... a-vikings/

Sheldon Richardson
Latavius Murray
Anthony Barr
Brett Jones
Nick Easton
Dan Bailey
Marcus Sherels
Tom Johnson
Tom Compton
George Iloka
Aldrick Robinson
Anthony Harris
Trevor Siemian
Matt Wile
Rashod Hill
C.J. Ham
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:50 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:47 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:44 am


Who are we losing? We should have enough for another big contract by the offseason. It will come down to Barr and Richardson and I take Richardson any day of the week. Outside of that, guys we could possibly lose are Murray, Jones, Easton, Sherels, Johnson, Compton, Iloka (who isnt playing anyways), Robinson, Harris, and a slew of backups. A decent amount of these guys will be kept on small one year deals. But we are losing nobody "big" due to Cousins contract. Most of our big time players are signed through 2020, including Cousins. So I dont buy that argument.
I'm not sure how you can spin it any other way. I didn't even add Waynes playing on the last year of his deal.

Our starting DT.
Back up DT
Starting OLB
Starting LG
Back both back-up Safeties
Punt Return
Swing Tackle
Starting FB
Starting K
Starting Punter

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents ... a-vikings/

Sheldon Richardson
Latavius Murray
Anthony Barr
Brett Jones
Nick Easton
Dan Bailey
Marcus Sherels
Tom Johnson
Tom Compton
George Iloka
Aldrick Robinson
Anthony Harris
Trevor Siemian
Matt Wile
Rashod Hill
C.J. Ham
Waynes definitely needs a contract next year and out of that list I would say our priority is definitely Richardson. I would like to get Murray back but who knows there. After that, the rest are a dime a dozen. I'm guessing we go OL or OLB in the first round this year if we keep Richardson. Guys like Jones, Easton, Sherels, Johnson, Compton, Robinson, Harris, Siemien, Wile, Hill and Ham are all easily replaceable. We obviously arent going to lose ALL of them but the guys we do lose, should be fairly easy ground to make up. Many of them are either backups or starters that shouldnt be starting. Which is why I'm not worried. If our FA's consisted of 3 or 4 top players on this team, then thats one thing. But this front office has done a great job of locking those guys up. Richardson is the only guy on that list that I TRULY want back. Anything else after that is whatever. I say we at least re-sign 5-6 of those guys on low end deals.
0 x
Image

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11459
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by S197 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:30 pm

Agree most of those guys are replaceable. I think Harris could be our starting safety, especially if he's willing to take less than Sendejo. There really hasn't been a dropoff with Sendejo out and he's often injured. I also don't think his hard hitting play style is conducive to the modern NFL rules. I like Sendejo and he's made huge strides in his game but tough decisions will need to be made. Wish we could keep Tom Johnson but if he keeps playing like he is, he'll probably be able to land a starting gig somewhere.
0 x

User avatar
dead_poet
Commissioner
Posts: 24615
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:30 pm
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by dead_poet » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:19 pm

S197 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:30 pm
Agree most of those guys are replaceable. I think Harris could be our starting safety, especially if he's willing to take less than Sendejo. There really hasn't been a dropoff with Sendejo out and he's often injured. I also don't think his hard hitting play style is conducive to the modern NFL rules. I like Sendejo and he's made huge strides in his game but tough decisions will need to be made. Wish we could keep Tom Johnson but if he keeps playing like he is, he'll probably be able to land a starting gig somewhere.
I wouldn't worry about 34 year-old rotational Tom Johnson getting a lucrative starting job anywhere. We may be able to keep him on a reasonable one-year deal. Or not if they want to roll with Jaleel, who has looked good in limited time.
0 x
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

YikesVikes
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by YikesVikes » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:25 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:50 am


Waynes definitely needs a contract next year and out of that list I would say our priority is definitely Richardson. I would like to get Murray back but who knows there. After that, the rest are a dime a dozen. I'm guessing we go OL or OLB in the first round this year if we keep Richardson. Guys like Jones, Easton, Sherels, Johnson, Compton, Robinson, Harris, Siemien, Wile, Hill and Ham are all easily replaceable. We obviously arent going to lose ALL of them but the guys we do lose, should be fairly easy ground to make up. Many of them are either backups or starters that shouldnt be starting. Which is why I'm not worried. If our FA's consisted of 3 or 4 top players on this team, then thats one thing. But this front office has done a great job of locking those guys up. Richardson is the only guy on that list that I TRULY want back. Anything else after that is whatever. I say we at least re-sign 5-6 of those guys on low end deals.
Yes the guys are replaceable but that eats into available cap and I don't think all are replaceable with like wise talent. Our Safety depth will be worst next season if none are resigned.
0 x

StumpHunter
Backup
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:03 pm

There is no denying that 1 player making 15% of the salary cap won't have an affect on what the team can do. There is also no denying that there are issues on offense this season. If you want to put all the blame for that on the line, fine, they certainly are the biggest culprit. So our QB, while he isn't close to being the biggest problem, clearly needs a good line around him to run a successful offense. Now how do we get that good line with no money to pay them?

Meanwhile, people seem to be content with one LBer out of 3 who is above average next season after letting Barr go, very little depth at safety after promoting Kearse or Harris and cutting Sendejo. If we cut Griffen for cap space to sign Oline, Weatherly has been solid but is a downgrade until proven otherwise, not to mention he is our only real depth at DE. If Richardson is as good as you think he is, it will cost all of our current available cap space to sign him, assuming the cap goes up next year. That does mean cuts or restructures to sign rookies, a kicker, punter, as well as the other open spots not filled by rookies. So we are left with hoping Rick is able to draft a starting LG in the next draft, O'Niell continuing to improve at right tackle, Rieff playing better, and no injuries possibly improving the Oline.

That is all assuming Thielen doesn't hold out when he realizes Diggs is making more in one season than he makes in the next two.
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:55 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:25 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:50 am


Waynes definitely needs a contract next year and out of that list I would say our priority is definitely Richardson. I would like to get Murray back but who knows there. After that, the rest are a dime a dozen. I'm guessing we go OL or OLB in the first round this year if we keep Richardson. Guys like Jones, Easton, Sherels, Johnson, Compton, Robinson, Harris, Siemien, Wile, Hill and Ham are all easily replaceable. We obviously arent going to lose ALL of them but the guys we do lose, should be fairly easy ground to make up. Many of them are either backups or starters that shouldnt be starting. Which is why I'm not worried. If our FA's consisted of 3 or 4 top players on this team, then thats one thing. But this front office has done a great job of locking those guys up. Richardson is the only guy on that list that I TRULY want back. Anything else after that is whatever. I say we at least re-sign 5-6 of those guys on low end deals.
Yes the guys are replaceable but that eats into available cap and I don't think all are replaceable with like wise talent. Our Safety depth will be worst next season if none are resigned.
I mean we'll still have Kearse who can play back there. Iloka is definitely gone. .He can land a good contract somewhere. Unless we decide to dump Sendejo and keep him but I doubt it. Kearse has turned into Zim's version of Iloka now. Harris would be the one to get back. OL is going to need a re-build for the most part. Especially at the guard position so I would think we draft there. Sherels can come back on a minimum deal. Same with Tom Johnson I would think. Or Jaleel improves along with Holmes and we go that route. Robinson is whatever. Backup QB, we can find someone similar to Siemien. Wile is replaceable. And FB's are a dime a dozen. The main thing is OL. I wouldnt mind keeping a guy like Jones for depth. Hill can walk for all I care. Same with Compton (or at best depth).

I say priorities are as follows for in house guys:

1.) Richardson
2.) Murray
3.) Harris
4.) Bailey
5.) Jones
6.) Johnson
7.) Sherels
8.) Compton, Easton (cant trust him after 2 major injuries), Robinson, Wile, Hill, Ham, Siemien, etc

X.) Iloka only if we let Sendejo walk.

This is far from being on of those years where we will have to let a bunch of studs walk. It shows us with about 10-12 million in cap space (based on spotrac and overthecap) going into next years offseason. This will also be dependent on veterans that we let go. Bryzinski is a cap genius. So I'm not worried. Like I said if we had guys like Hunter, Thielen, Diggs and Cook all up for contracts and were hurting on cap space, then yeah, I'd be worried. But this is more than manageable I think. Especially with Bryzinski. Philly has gone into the past few offseason with under $1 million in cap or even in the negative and still make it work for the most part. It's definitely doable
0 x
Image