Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by 808vikingsfan » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:42 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:34 am
808vikingsfan wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:42 pm


Don't forget his 7 fumbles and 15+ batted balls which are wasted downs that put the team in poor down and distance situations.
....which is going to probably happen more often then not when you're the most pressured QB in the NFL.
Or when you don't feel pressure well or move in the pocket well, or hold on to the ball too long, or tell the whole world when you're about to pass. It's not about always having 3 seconds to throw. Just look at Brees. His time to throw is less than Cousins. I'm starting to think people are using the OL as a scapegoat for Cousins deficiencies.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by mansquatch » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:11 am

I'm not convinced the batted balls are on Cousins. I think that is an OL technique thing, but I could be wrong. I've never seen more batted passes than I have this year. Something is up with that.

The fumbles are/were a known issue. And yes I do not like it. But his greatness in other areas does compensate. (Except against the Bills...)
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by mansquatch » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:14 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:33 am
808vikingsfan wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:54 pm

Having those two skills are HUGE though. Takes pressure off the OL , slows down the pass rush, extends plays, would make RPO more effective. All these would help the offense in the redzone (IMO). Taking care of the ball was another advantage Keenum had. He only fumbled once in 2017. Cousins has 7 already this year and 29 since 2016.
How man ints does Case have this season?
This is exactly right. Keenum also played out of his mind last year. He has regressed to his mean in Denver. Keenum on this incarnation of the Vikings might have a worse record than Cousins. (Although his rapport with the players might have been an intangible positive.)

I would remind folks that Reilly Reiff has not been healthy for most of the season. The OL issues do not just begin and end at Guard. Compton was also out last Sunday. This team is ready for it's Bye.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:54 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:57 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:44 am


I dont plant win loss on the QB. Especially in this situation. It's a team game. Washington currently has the 4th TOTAL defense in the NFL and the 8th best rushing attack. When Kirk was there, they had the 31st, 28th and 28th total defense in his 3 years as a starter. And the 28th, 21st and 20th best rushing attacks in the NFL. Key is, Washington improved in other areas. Something they never did when Cousins was there. BIG DIFFERENCE
Washington is giving up more points per drive this year than last. They are just on the field less so are giving up fewer pts per game.
They're also sustaining drives by having a rushing attack and a game managing QB. But overall, their defense improved a lot since last year.

Either way, Cousins didnt have the talent around him in Washington on either side of the ball. But the media and fans are saying "he's not a winner". Well the guy cant do it by himself. He has the talent now so this will be the true tell.

We currently have 3 losses and 1 tie. In 2 of those 4 games, Cousins was unreal (GB, LAR). He was the sole reason we were in those games.

As for the Saints game, he didnt play great but he didnt play bad by any means. The offense was on their way to putting up 20 points before half until Thielen fumbled. The pick 6 was just a miscommunication. The two turnovers are what lost us that game. And more so Thielens fumble. If he doesnt fumble that we go into the half ahead either 16-10 or 20-10 AND get the ball back. Instead we go down 17-13 soley because of that fumble. You couldnt have asked for a bigger momentum shift if you wanted to in that situation.

Buffalo was a whole different animal. Cousins didnt play well but neither did the team. The offensive line hands down had its worst game of the year. We got down so fast so early that we completely abandoned the run game. It was a weird, fluke type game IMO.

Overall, Cousins deserves every penny. And I do believe the guy can and will win here. I mean the Packers are 3-3-1 and nobody is downing Rodgers. Nor should they be. But the point is, Cousins is having just as good or an even better year than the "best QB in the league" and he's still getting sh** for it. I dont get it. I never will. Give credit to where credit is due. Kirk Cousins is not the sole reason why we are 4-3-1. Not even close. And I would pin maybe 1 of our losses on him, max.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:59 am

mansquatch wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:11 am
I'm not convinced the batted balls are on Cousins. I think that is an OL technique thing, but I could be wrong. I've never seen more batted passes than I have this year. Something is up with that.

The fumbles are/were a known issue. And yes I do not like it. But his greatness in other areas does compensate. (Except against the Bills...)
Cousins bats the ball before he throws and the d-line put their arms up when they see it. I think he can work on that in the offseason and stop giving that tell, and hope he does, because it is also a tell for any CB looking back at the ball. It essentially makes his release one of the longest in the NFL.

The fumble that wasn't actually a fumble in the Saints game made me sick to my stomach before I saw his knee was actually down. That was a QB in the biggest game of the season, at home, needing a big play, not protecting the ball. That scares me more than anything, because stuff like that will rear its ugly head in the playoffs. Not something an MVP does.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:59 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:42 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:34 am


....which is going to probably happen more often then not when you're the most pressured QB in the NFL.
Or when you don't feel pressure well or move in the pocket well, or hold on to the ball too long, or tell the whole world when you're about to pass. It's not about always having 3 seconds to throw. Just look at Brees. His time to throw is less than Cousins. I'm starting to think people are using the OL as a scapegoat for Cousins deficiencies.
Have you not watched the offensive line this year?? I cant even begin to count how many times Cousins isnt even at the BACK OF HIS DROP before he is getting hit. And just about any time Cousins is coming from under center to pass and it's a non-play action play, he's getting crushed before he hits the back of his drop.

As for the patting of the ball, I'm sure that is probably true. Nobody is defending the batting of the balls. What people are defending and how bad the OL is and how quick he is getting hit. How many completions has he had this year where he's getting speared in the gut as he's throwing the ball. A LOT. Has he held onto the ball too long a few times? Yeah definitely. But he's not a stiff in the pocket either. He's made his fair share of Houdini plays where he's gotten away from pressure. Not as much as Keenum but he's definitely done it. He's not a stiff like Brady, Eli, Brees, Peyton, Rivers, etc when it comes to evading pressure.

Kirk Cousins currently has more rushing yards this year than: Russell Wilson, Ryan, Luck, Goff, Flacco, Big Ben, Stafford, Carr, Dalton, Keenum, Brady, Eli and Brees. These arent designed runs for him either. It's him scrambling away from pressure. Again, I'm not saying he hasnt held onto the ball too long at times but bottom line is, to try and blame him and not the OL baffles me. It's MUCH more on the OL right now than it is Cousins.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:10 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:54 am


Either way, Cousins didnt have the talent around him in Washington on either side of the ball. But the media and fans are saying "he's not a winner". Well the guy cant do it by himself. He has the talent now so this will be the true tell.
He had a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball in his first two seasons starting. Crowder, Jackson and Garcon is a very good WR trio. His offensive line was fantastic as well and he did play well behind them. Defensively you have a point, they weren't great, but neither is KC's or the Saints D, and they seem to be doing alright.
We currently have 3 losses and 1 tie. In 2 of those 4 games, Cousins was unreal (GB, LAR). He was the sole reason we were in those games.
His best games he got us a tie and a loss? So .5 win differential between him and last year's backup.
Overall, Cousins deserves every penny. And I do believe the guy can and will win here. I mean the Packers are 3-3-1 and nobody is downing Rodgers. Nor should they be. But the point is, Cousins is having just as good or an even better year than the "best QB in the league" and he's still getting sh** for it. I dont get it. I never will. Give credit to where credit is due. Kirk Cousins is not the sole reason why we are 4-3-1. Not even close. And I would pin maybe 1 of our losses on him, max.
He hasn't earned anything yet. He was paid to improve the Vikings and so far he hasn't. Come playoff time if he keeps us in high scoring games like Keenum wasn't able too, that is when we will know if he is indeed worth every penny. Until then none of us can claim he was worth or not worth the contract.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:35 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:10 am


He had a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball in his first two seasons starting. Crowder, Jackson and Garcon is a very good WR trio. His offensive line was fantastic as well and he did play well behind them. Defensively you have a point, they weren't great, but neither is KC's or the Saints D, and they seem to be doing alright.
Yeah as long as their offenses back them up. If KC's offense falters at any point, they're beat.


He hasn't earned anything yet. He was paid to improve the Vikings and so far he hasn't. Come playoff time if he keeps us in high scoring games like Keenum wasn't able too, that is when we will know if he is indeed worth every penny. Until then none of us can claim he was worth or not worth the contract.
[/quote]

He's kept us in two high scoring games so far (Rams and GB). How has he not improved the Vikings? We have a better total offense and much better passing attack this year. Pretty sure Kirk Cousins doesnt play defense or special teams. If the defense could stop the Rams on a drive or two, we beat LA. If our kicker could make ONE of 3 field goals, we beat GB. If Thielen doesnt fumble vs. NO (even though I love the guy), we probably beat NO given we were going into half possibly up by 2 scores and getting the ball back . The only reason we were in the GB and LA games were SOLELY because of Kirk Cousins. He brought us back from being down 20-7 to GB in the 3rd and brought the game to OT. He couldnt have been more clutch that game. The LA game he was going toe to toe with the best offense in the NFL and shredded one of the better defenses but we couldnt get a stop on our end.

This is why I dont base a QBs talent off of wins/losses. The media does. But it couldnt be more false. How can anyone possibly blame Cousins for the LA loss or the GB tie?? You cant. Period. You're simply saying he hasnt improved the Vikings because our record is 4-3-1. He's 10 times the QB Keenum was and ever will be. Saying he's earned the contract or not, if we dont offer him that deal, he's not playing for the Vikings. And this team is considerably worse right now. Keenum is currently holding a whopping 10:10 TD:INT ratio. Cousins is holding a 16:4 TD:INT ratio. And I can sit here and say that 3 of those 4 INTs werent on Cousins. The Treadwell drop vs GB, the Murray drop vs. Buffalo, Diggs stopping his route vs. NO.

I pay Cousins that contract any day of the week to get him here. There were no better options out there. Not even close and Keenum is proving that this year.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:54 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:35 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:10 am


He had a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball in his first two seasons starting. Crowder, Jackson and Garcon is a very good WR trio. His offensive line was fantastic as well and he did play well behind them. Defensively you have a point, they weren't great, but neither is KC's or the Saints D, and they seem to be doing alright.
Yeah as long as their offenses back them up. If KC's offense falters at any point, they're beat.


He hasn't earned anything yet. He was paid to improve the Vikings and so far he hasn't. Come playoff time if he keeps us in high scoring games like Keenum wasn't able too, that is when we will know if he is indeed worth every penny. Until then none of us can claim he was worth or not worth the contract.
He's kept us in two high scoring games so far (Rams and GB). How has he not improved the Vikings? We have a better total offense and much better passing attack this year. Pretty sure Kirk Cousins doesnt play defense or special teams. If the defense could stop the Rams on a drive or two, we beat LA. If our kicker could make ONE of 3 field goals, we beat GB. If Thielen doesnt fumble vs. NO (even though I love the guy), we probably beat NO given we were going into half possibly up by 2 scores and getting the ball back . The only reason we were in the GB and LA games were SOLELY because of Kirk Cousins. He brought us back from being down 20-7 to GB in the 3rd and brought the game to OT. He couldnt have been more clutch that game. The LA game he was going toe to toe with the best offense in the NFL and shredded one of the better defenses but we couldnt get a stop on our end.

This is why I dont base a QBs talent off of wins/losses. The media does. But it couldnt be more false. How can anyone possibly blame Cousins for the LA loss or the GB tie?? You cant. Period. You're simply saying he hasnt improved the Vikings because our record is 4-3-1. He's 10 times the QB Keenum was and ever will be. Saying he's earned the contract or not, if we dont offer him that deal, he's not playing for the Vikings. And this team is considerably worse right now. Keenum is currently holding a whopping 10:10 TD:INT ratio. Cousins is holding a 16:4 TD:INT ratio. And I can sit here and say that 3 of those 4 INTs werent on Cousins. The Treadwell drop vs GB, the Murray drop vs. Buffalo, Diggs stopping his route vs. NO.

I pay Cousins that contract any day of the week to get him here. There were no better options out there. Not even close and Keenum is proving that this year.
[/quote]

The media bases a QB's talent off of wins/losses because all of the great QBs win more than they lose. Also, why pay a QB 15% of the salary cap if they don't have a huge impact in wins/losses? Why is it considered nearly impossible to win without a decent starting QB?

I don't care if he kept us in the Rams game. A loss is a loss whether it is by 20 or 8, which isn't actually a very close game. So again, .5 wins over replacement.

People don't realize that when they say Keenum stinks with Denver, they are also making what Cousins is doing with the Vikings this year less significant. If Keenum isn't a good QB, but looked great throwing to Diggs and Theilen, how does Cousins looking great throwing to Diggs and Theilen justify 84 million guaranteed?

Teddy was the better option until proven otherwise. If he was good enough to bet your entire season on in 2016, he should have been good enough for a fraction of the money in 2018. Now I know there was an injury concern, and Rick and Zim couldn't bet their jobs on that knee, but that was the right choice for the long term future of the team.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:01 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:54 am


The media bases a QB's talent off of wins/losses because all of the great QBs win more than they lose. Also, why pay a QB 15% of the salary cap if they don't have a huge impact in wins/losses? Why is it considered nearly impossible to win without a decent starting QB?


This is Cousins 4th year being a starter and took an average team at best to the playoffs. Philip Rivers is a great QB. Chargers havent been to the playoffs since 2013. Prior to last year, the saints missed the playoffs 3 straight years. Brees is one of the best ever. Dan Marino didnt win a SB but is considered one of the best QBs to ever step on a field. Point is, there is more to just wins and losses to make a good-great QB. Everyone crowns Aaron Rodgers as the best QB in the league but he has been to and won ONE SB in 13 years. Hmm?
I don't care if he kept us in the Rams game. A loss is a loss whether it is by 20 or 8, which isn't actually a very close game. So again, .5 wins over replacement.
Well you should care because again, Cousins didnt lose us that game. He was the only reason we were in it. You're being so narrow minded regarding this its not even funny. You refuse to look beyond record.
People don't realize that when they say Keenum stinks with Denver, they are also making what Cousins is doing with the Vikings this year less significant. If Keenum isn't a good QB, but looked great throwing to Diggs and Theilen, how does Cousins looking great throwing to Diggs and Theilen justify 84 million guaranteed?
The main question is, was there a better QB out there. No not even close. No matter the cost. Keenum throwing to Diggs and Thielen was "good". I would say Cousins connection with Thielen and Diggs is great. Thielen currently has 17 catches less than he did in ALL of 2017. He has 300 yards less than he did in ALL of 2017. He already has 2 more TDs than last year. He's going to shatter those numbers. Diggs has 6 less catches than he did in ALL of 2017 and 200 yards less than he had in ALL of 2017. Also going to shatter those numbers.

Point being, Keenum's connection with Diggs and Thielen was good. No arguing that. But just good. The Cousins connection is legitimately GREAT. LIke breaking records great. So again, lets not even put Keenum in the same category as Cousins or even sentence for that matter. It's not even close.
Teddy was the better option until proven otherwise. If he was good enough to bet your entire season on in 2016, he should have been good enough for a fraction of the money in 2018. Now I know there was an injury concern, and Rick and Zim couldn't bet their jobs on that knee, but that was the right choice for the long term future of the team.
:lol: This kills me. You're dogging Cousins and saying he's earned nothing and dont think he deserved $84 million but you think Teddy was the better option?? Like WHAT? How can you possibly say a guy that has yet to play in a legit NFL game since 2015 and has been on 2 teams this year and hasnt started for either a better option that Kirk Cousins?? You're basing that entire statement off of assumption. 0 facts. Just the sense of "well Teddy would be cheap and I "think" he would be good even though he hasnt played in 3 years. That is all I needed to hear to realize it isnt worth having this discussion with you.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by TSonn » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:21 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:59 am
mansquatch wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:11 am
I'm not convinced the batted balls are on Cousins. I think that is an OL technique thing, but I could be wrong. I've never seen more batted passes than I have this year. Something is up with that.

The fumbles are/were a known issue. And yes I do not like it. But his greatness in other areas does compensate. (Except against the Bills...)
Cousins bats the ball before he throws and the d-line put their arms up when they see it. I think he can work on that in the offseason and stop giving that tell, and hope he does, because it is also a tell for any CB looking back at the ball. It essentially makes his release one of the longest in the NFL.
What about Tom Brady patting the ball before he throws? Or Andrew Luck? Or Drew Brees? Or Patrick Mahomes? Or basically 90% of the league? They must all have the longest release in the NFL and have CBs jumping routes all day long getting easy INTs...

You wanna know a guy who doesn't/didn't pat the ball? Jay Cutler.

Patting has nothing to do with the batted balls at the line and everything to do with the offensive line and the short WR routes.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:21 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:01 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:54 am


The media bases a QB's talent off of wins/losses because all of the great QBs win more than they lose. Also, why pay a QB 15% of the salary cap if they don't have a huge impact in wins/losses? Why is it considered nearly impossible to win without a decent starting QB?


This is Cousins 4th year being a starter and took an average team at best to the playoffs. Philip Rivers is a great QB. Chargers havent been to the playoffs since 2013. Prior to last year, the saints missed the playoffs 3 straight years. Brees is one of the best ever. Dan Marino didnt win a SB but is considered one of the best QBs to ever step on a field. Point is, there is more to just wins and losses to make a good-great QB. Everyone crowns Aaron Rodgers as the best QB in the league but he has been to and won ONE SB in 13 years. Hmm?
I don't care if he kept us in the Rams game. A loss is a loss whether it is by 20 or 8, which isn't actually a very close game. So again, .5 wins over replacement.
Well you should care because again, Cousins didnt lose us that game. He was the only reason we were in it. You're being so narrow minded regarding this its not even funny. You refuse to look beyond record.
People don't realize that when they say Keenum stinks with Denver, they are also making what Cousins is doing with the Vikings this year less significant. If Keenum isn't a good QB, but looked great throwing to Diggs and Theilen, how does Cousins looking great throwing to Diggs and Theilen justify 84 million guaranteed?
The main question is, was there a better QB out there. No not even close. No matter the cost. Keenum throwing to Diggs and Thielen was "good". I would say Cousins connection with Thielen and Diggs is great. Thielen currently has 17 catches less than he did in ALL of 2017. He has 300 yards less than he did in ALL of 2017. He already has 2 more TDs than last year. He's going to shatter those numbers. Diggs has 6 less catches than he did in ALL of 2017 and 200 yards less than he had in ALL of 2017. Also going to shatter those numbers.

Point being, Keenum's connection with Diggs and Thielen was good. No arguing that. But just good. The Cousins connection is legitimately GREAT. LIke breaking records great. So again, lets not even put Keenum in the same category as Cousins or even sentence for that matter. It's not even close.
Teddy was the better option until proven otherwise. If he was good enough to bet your entire season on in 2016, he should have been good enough for a fraction of the money in 2018. Now I know there was an injury concern, and Rick and Zim couldn't bet their jobs on that knee, but that was the right choice for the long term future of the team.
:lol: This kills me. You're dogging Cousins and saying he's earned nothing and dont think he deserved $84 million but you think Teddy was the better option?? Like WHAT? How can you possibly say a guy that has yet to play in a legit NFL game since 2015 and has been on 2 teams this year and hasnt started for either a better option that Kirk Cousins?? You're basing that entire statement off of assumption. 0 facts. Just the sense of "well Teddy would be cheap and I "think" he would be good even though he hasnt played in 3 years. That is all I needed to hear to realize it isnt worth having this discussion with you.
Keenum's good per pass attempt throwing to Diggs and Theilen:
7.4 YPA, 4.6 TD % 1.5 Int % 98.3 Passer Rating 74.3 QBR

Cousins' great per pass attempt throwing to the same receivers:
7.4 YPA, 4.7 TD% 1.2 INT % 102.5 Passer Rating 65.2 QBR

What a difference Cousins is making. But hey we only got blown out by 8 by the Rams, and had a chance to tie if Cousins hadn't fumbled, so there is that.

Teddy and a solid backup, in my opinion was the better option. Overpaying for a QB who has never won more than 9 games in a season, sacrificing over a tenth of our cap space to have him match our 2 million dollar backup was not a good plan to me. Sorry, that isn't fair to the 2 million dollar backup who ran an offense that wasn't bottom 11 in the NFL.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by TSonn » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:48 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:21 pm
Overpaying for a QB who has never won more than 9 games in a season, sacrificing over a tenth of our cap space to have him match our 2 million dollar backup was not a good plan to me. Sorry, that isn't fair to the 2 million dollar backup who ran an offense that wasn't bottom 11 in the NFL.
Saying Cousins cost $28 million and Keenum cost $2 million is a junk comparison. Keenum's base salary is $36 million ($25 million due at signing).

I do find it interesting that Cousins and Keenum have similar statistics in their first 7-8 starts with the Vikings. I'd be kidding myself, though, if I thought they were anywhere near the same caliber of QB. Let's look at the teams each faced (+/- included to give a brief assessment of the defense they faced):

2017 Keenum:
Steelers (+)
Bucs (-)
Lions (-)
Bears (+) though, at this point their defense was probably (-) despite ending the year (+)
Packers (-)
Ravens (+)
Browns (-)

2018 Cousins:
49ers (+)
Packers (-) though, improved over 2017
Bills (+)
Rams (+)
Eagles (+)
Cardinals (-)
Jets (+)
Saints (-)

Our first half schedule in 2017 was much easier than our first half this year. And if we want to compare apples to apples (as much as we possibly can) let's look at Keenum vs the Eagles (after a full season with the team) and Cousins vs the Eagles (only 1/4 of a season with the team).

Keenum:
28/48 | 271 yards | 1 TD | 1 INT | 63.8 rating

Cousins:
30/37 | 301 yards | 1 TD | 0 INT | 109.6 rating

I could also do the same with their stats against the Packers and the Saints, but hopefully you get the point without me needing to post those. Cousins is significantly better than Keenum and that's clearly seen when we measure them against each other playing against similar teams/defenses.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:23 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:21 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:01 pm


This is Cousins 4th year being a starter and took an average team at best to the playoffs. Philip Rivers is a great QB. Chargers havent been to the playoffs since 2013. Prior to last year, the saints missed the playoffs 3 straight years. Brees is one of the best ever. Dan Marino didnt win a SB but is considered one of the best QBs to ever step on a field. Point is, there is more to just wins and losses to make a good-great QB. Everyone crowns Aaron Rodgers as the best QB in the league but he has been to and won ONE SB in 13 years. Hmm?



Well you should care because again, Cousins didnt lose us that game. He was the only reason we were in it. You're being so narrow minded regarding this its not even funny. You refuse to look beyond record.



The main question is, was there a better QB out there. No not even close. No matter the cost. Keenum throwing to Diggs and Thielen was "good". I would say Cousins connection with Thielen and Diggs is great. Thielen currently has 17 catches less than he did in ALL of 2017. He has 300 yards less than he did in ALL of 2017. He already has 2 more TDs than last year. He's going to shatter those numbers. Diggs has 6 less catches than he did in ALL of 2017 and 200 yards less than he had in ALL of 2017. Also going to shatter those numbers.

Point being, Keenum's connection with Diggs and Thielen was good. No arguing that. But just good. The Cousins connection is legitimately GREAT. LIke breaking records great. So again, lets not even put Keenum in the same category as Cousins or even sentence for that matter. It's not even close.



:lol: This kills me. You're dogging Cousins and saying he's earned nothing and dont think he deserved $84 million but you think Teddy was the better option?? Like WHAT? How can you possibly say a guy that has yet to play in a legit NFL game since 2015 and has been on 2 teams this year and hasnt started for either a better option that Kirk Cousins?? You're basing that entire statement off of assumption. 0 facts. Just the sense of "well Teddy would be cheap and I "think" he would be good even though he hasnt played in 3 years. That is all I needed to hear to realize it isnt worth having this discussion with you.
Keenum's good per pass attempt throwing to Diggs and Theilen:
7.4 YPA, 4.6 TD % 1.5 Int % 98.3 Passer Rating 74.3 QBR

Cousins' great per pass attempt throwing to the same receivers:
7.4 YPA, 4.7 TD% 1.2 INT % 102.5 Passer Rating 65.2 QBR

What a difference Cousins is making. But hey we only got blown out by 8 by the Rams, and had a chance to tie if Cousins hadn't fumbled, so there is that.

Teddy and a solid backup, in my opinion was the better option. Overpaying for a QB who has never won more than 9 games in a season, sacrificing over a tenth of our cap space to have him match our 2 million dollar backup was not a good plan to me. Sorry, that isn't fair to the 2 million dollar backup who ran an offense that wasn't bottom 11 in the NFL.
Not sure how those can be correct stats when both Thielen and Diggs are about to shatter their numbers from last year.

"Got blown out by the Rams"? First of all, we lost by 7. Second, Cousins arm was hit when he was pulling back to throw, after Rashod Hill got smoked. But yeah what is Kirk thinking? I feel like literally no matter what happens in any game, it's Cousins' fault in your eyes. How about Rashod Hill holds up against a no-name DE when the game is on the line?

Teddy and a solid backup? Again, what is your infatuation with Teddy and how do you know if he can even make a difference since he hasnt played in 3 years? Teddy was an average QB at best. You're basing your judgement off of assumption that Teddy would come back and miraculously be better than he was before (which wasnt really that good). Lets be honest, Teddy didnt win more than 9 games in 2015. Adrian Peterson did. I mean 14 TDs in 17 games. That is terrible. And our passing offense was 31st in the NFL!!

Like dude, before the guy destroyed his knee he was average at best. What makes you think he would do anything when he's been out of the game for so long and not really that good to begin with? You're settling for average. Cousins is well above average. The numbers show. If you're putting up 31 points as a QB, you're doing your job. Cousins did that against the Rams. And they lost. If you're putting up 31 and losing, that is on your defense. Quit trying to point everything at Cousins. You know that that game was not on him. Nor was the Packers tie. But you've dug yourself too deep of a hole at this point.

If you said, hey we should have traded up for Pat Mahomes two years ago or something, then that's one thing. But to say you would take Teddy who is a GIANT question mark and a "solid backup" (those arent just floating all over the league) over Cousins, is downright laughable. So wait, if Teddy didnt do well early on, we just go rely on our "solid backup" to pull of a Case Keenum miracle season? I literally couldnt think of a worse strategy. And the guy we're "relying on" in Teddy wasnt very good to begin with let alone being good after sitting out for 3 years.

Are you going to sit there and tell me Teddy Bridgewater or a "solid backup" would go toe to toe with the Rams?? Or would come back on the Packers on the road when down 20-7 in the 3rd? Would he have beat the Eagles on the road? I can tell you no with confidence to all those questions. So I can tell you, just about no one will agree with taking Teddy and a "solid backup" over Cousins on here. So your argument will go nowhere.

Side note: Lets not forget, Keenum also had THE #1 defense in the NFL last year. We are no longer playing to that level right now.

EIther way, wins/losses dont solely rest on the QB. This is a team game and everyone can cost their team a game in their own way. Defense crapping the bed against the Rams, OL playing awful vs the Bills, ST allowing a blocked punt TD and having 3 missed FGs against GB, Thielen fumbling vs NO in the red zone, etc. Cousins is at fault for some things, but not the LA loss and GB tie. Period. Everyone has played their part.

I dont see anyone saying Adam Thielen played bad against the Saints. But he was why the momentum completely changed, he cost this offense points going into half, and cost us the chance of going up by 2 scores and getting the ball at half. In turn, we go down by 4. Are we going to blame that on Kirk Cousins? No. Point is, everyone can get blame one way or another.

Saying Thielen played bad that game because of his fumble is like saying Kirk Cousins wasnt worth 84 million because we "got blown out by the Rams" (even though we lost by 7). I cant believe we're arguing this right now and that Vikings fans are actually complaining about Kirk Cousins. The best QB we have had in almost 10 years. :roll:
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StumpHunter
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:57 pm

TSonn wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:48 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:21 pm
Overpaying for a QB who has never won more than 9 games in a season, sacrificing over a tenth of our cap space to have him match our 2 million dollar backup was not a good plan to me. Sorry, that isn't fair to the 2 million dollar backup who ran an offense that wasn't bottom 11 in the NFL.
Saying Cousins cost $28 million and Keenum cost $2 million is a junk comparison. Keenum's base salary is $36 million ($25 million due at signing).

I do find it interesting that Cousins and Keenum have similar statistics in their first 7-8 starts with the Vikings. I'd be kidding myself, though, if I thought they were anywhere near the same caliber of QB. Let's look at the teams each faced (+/- included to give a brief assessment of the defense they faced):

2017 Keenum:
Steelers (+)
Bucs (-)
Lions (-)
Bears (+) though, at this point their defense was probably (-) despite ending the year (+)
Packers (-)
Ravens (+)
Browns (-)

2018 Cousins:
49ers (+)
Packers (-) though, improved over 2017
Bills (+)
Rams (+)
Eagles (+)
Cardinals (-)
Jets (+)
Saints (-)

Our first half schedule in 2017 was much easier than our first half this year. And if we want to compare apples to apples (as much as we possibly can) let's look at Keenum vs the Eagles (after a full season with the team) and Cousins vs the Eagles (only 1/4 of a season with the team).

Keenum:
28/48 | 271 yards | 1 TD | 1 INT | 63.8 rating

Cousins:
30/37 | 301 yards | 1 TD | 0 INT | 109.6 rating

I could also do the same with their stats against the Packers and the Saints, but hopefully you get the point without me needing to post those. Cousins is significantly better than Keenum and that's clearly seen when we measure them against each other playing against similar teams/defenses.
My goodness did you bend over backwards to pick and choose numbers that fit your narrative. The Saints and Eagles are significantly worse defenses this year than last and the Packers CBs were still in college last year. Not apples to apples. Apples to crappy defenses.
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