Kirk Cousins is having an MVP season

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5729
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:44 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:25 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:02 pm


Teddy WAS the answer? Based off what man? Look at his numbers. He was a below average at best game managing QB. Yeah a guy that threw a whopping 14 TDs in his first year and improved little in his 2nd year by throwing for 14 more once again (and played more games) is "our answer". But hey, he moved and threw well against 2nd-3rd stringers in the preseason so he must be the answer now! No. Saying he was the answer for this team, doesnt help your argument thats for sure. It causes fans to drastically question your thinking. Because not one fan on here, not one NFL analysts, not anyone is mentioning or thinking Teddy Bridgewater was our answer OVER Kirk Cousins other than you. So yeah, I really cant tell what you know and dont know about football. But I can tell you that your argument will continue to carry little weight. Given the guy STILL hasnt been back to being a starter in this league and might now ever. But THAT's the guy that was our answer over Kirk Cousins...... I'm done
He was the answer to the GM and HC in 2016. When you don't draft a QB, or have any reasonable backup plan, and you feel you are a SB team, doesn't that mean you think your current QB was the answer? Sorry if you don't like Teddy's TD numbers, but Vikings management sure felt the same way about Teddy as I did.

Personally, I would love to have the 2015 offense that Teddy lead right now. Horrible line, his best receiver a rookie, with the rest being garbage He still managed to get more YPA than the great Cousins. I wonder what he could do in a legit passing offense and not one built around a RB who doesn't help in the passing game, throwing to the veteran Diggs and Thielen? I know what Cousins can do, and I haven't been impressed.
I can guarantee you that if he didnt get hurt and threw for another sub 20 TD passes, management would be considering letting him walk come contract time. Where did he improve from year 1 to 2?? He didnt!!! Go stat digging please. He started in 3.5 MORE games his 2nd season than his first and dipped in most categories. His YPA dropped, his YPG dropped, his yards barely moved, his TDs didnt budge, he turned the ball over a few less times, etc. There was next to no improvement. And please dont even bother saying record. Adrian Peterson was the reason we were 11-5. Literally. When he played bad, we lost. When he played good, we won.

I find it funny too that you say his YPA was "better than the great Kirk Cousins" when it was 7.2 compared to 7.1 :lol: But fail to mention Teddys accuracy sitting in the low 60's compared to Cousins who has floated around the high 70's. Weird....

But you would love to have that 2015 offense back? Wow. No comment.

But you've been impressed with what Teddy Bridgewater can do? Are you like buddies with this guy? Look at guys like Mahomes, Trubisky, Goff, Wentz, etc. Look what they do in their 2nd years!! They take off. Teddy flat-lined or maybe even went backwards. Then blows his knee out. The guy has done NOTHING to warrant he could be a legit Goff/Wentz type QB in this league. But you continue to disagree. You're drawing dead man. You arent changing my mind or anyone elses on here. We can put this to bed anytime now. Bridgewater will forever be mediocre at best.
0 x
Image

User avatar
Cliff
Site Admin
Posts: 8645
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Kirk Cousins is having an MVP season

Post by Cliff » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:07 pm

Not trashing the decision to go with Cousins, it was a hard one and wasn't necessarily wrong. Time will tell. So far tho ... the title of "Kirk Cousins is having an MVP season" definitely doesn't fit.

In retrospect keeping Keenum, Teddy (but I can acknowledge that's my Louisville side showing), and drafting a QB high would probably have been the way to go. It's not that Cousins has done a terrible job, but he hasn't done good enough to justify the expense to the team. At least not so far. Still pretty early in his career as a Viking so that's not necessarily an opinion I will always have, but if we had to judge right this second I'd rather have Case and a rookie QB that could eventually replace him.

It's not about which QB is better or which one has better stats for me. At this point it's about wins and losses. The Vikings haven't been able to beat a single quality opponent this season. Meanwhile, the "worse" QB on a "worse" team has the same number of wins and 3 of them over pretty good teams; Seahawks, Chargers, and Steelers.

Basically, I think the Vikings record would be very similar with Keenum at QB so why pay Cousins? He hasn't been the "key" to elevate the team over the tougher opponents or take the offense to that "next level". There are a lot of times this season where I've thought to myself "Case could never have made that throw ... " and other times where I've thought "I bet Case would have got out of that and made a play ... ".

Obviously I hope I'm wrong and Cousins can change my mind. He's the QB the rest of the this season and for the next 2 at least so I really, really hope that. Maybe if the Vikings can give him a better offensive line to work with he'll be able to use his abilities to their fullest.
0 x

StumpHunter
Starter
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am

Re: Kirk Cousins is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:11 pm

Cliff wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:07 pm
Not trashing the decision to go with Cousins, it was a hard one and wasn't necessarily wrong. Time will tell. So far tho ... the title of "Kirk Cousins is having an MVP season" definitely doesn't fit.

In retrospect keeping Keenum, Teddy (but I can acknowledge that's my Louisville side showing), and drafting a QB high would probably have been the way to go. It's not that Cousins has done a terrible job, but he hasn't done good enough to justify the expense to the team. At least not so far. Still pretty early in his career as a Viking so that's not necessarily an opinion I will always have, but if we had to judge right this second I'd rather have Case and a rookie QB that could eventually replace him.

It's not about which QB is better or which one has better stats for me. At this point it's about wins and losses. The Vikings haven't been able to beat a single quality opponent this season. Meanwhile, the "worse" QB on a "worse" team has the same number of wins and 3 of them over pretty good teams; Seahawks, Chargers, and Steelers.

Basically, I think the Vikings record would be very similar with Keenum at QB so why pay Cousins? He hasn't been the "key" to elevate the team over the tougher opponents or take the offense to that "next level". There are a lot of times this season where I've thought to myself "Case could never have made that throw ... " and other times where I've thought "I bet Case would have got out of that and made a play ... ".

Obviously I hope I'm wrong and Cousins can change my mind. He's the QB the rest of the this season and for the next 2 at least so I really, really hope that. Maybe if the Vikings can give him a better offensive line to work with he'll be able to use his abilities to their fullest.
This.

I agree 100% including about how it is still early and Cousins could earn that pay check. I hope he does.
0 x

StumpHunter
Starter
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:36 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:44 pm

I can guarantee you that if he didnt get hurt and threw for another sub 20 TD passes, management would be considering letting him walk come contract time.
Okay? Not sure what point you are trying to make here. He didn’t have that sub 20 TD season in 2016, and his walking had nothing to do with his play on the field. It is fun to deal in hypotheticals, but the reality is, based on his play in 2014 and 2015, the only seasons we have to go off of, management was all in on the guy.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:44 pm

Where did he improve from year 1 to 2?? He didnt!!! Go stat digging please. He started in 3.5 MORE games his 2nd season than his first and dipped in most categories. His YPA dropped, his YPG dropped, his yards barely moved, his TDs didnt budge, he turned the ball over a few less times, etc. There was next to no improvement. And please dont even bother saying record. Adrian Peterson was the reason we were 11-5. Literally. When he played bad, we lost. When he played good, we won.

Stat digging? Is it okay if I look at more than passing TDs or is that the only thing to measure a QB by? Bortles threw 35 passing TDs in a season, 6 more than Cousins ever has, so I guess that means Bortles is the better QB.
So here are some obscure stats in which Teddy improved: Ints, completion percentage, YPA, passer rating, QBR and a really obscure one, wins. His TD number went down because the RB lead the league in TDs and Teddy can’t throw for TDs when he is handing it off and his RB scores. Brady can’t either.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:44 pm
I find it funny too that you say his YPA was "better than the great Kirk Cousins" when it was 7.2 compared to 7.1 :lol: But fail to mention Teddys accuracy sitting in the low 60's compared to Cousins who has floated around the high 70's. Weird....
Weird that you would bring that up, because a really high completion percentage coupled with a low YPA, means the QB is throwing a lot of short, easy passes. Not something to that helps your argument bud.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:44 pm
But you would love to have that 2015 offense back? Wow. No comment.
I prefer a 14th in scoring over a 24th scoring offense. Strange that you do not.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:44 pm
But you've been impressed with what Teddy Bridgewater can do? Are you like buddies with this guy? Look at guys like Mahomes, Trubisky, Goff, Wentz, etc. Look what they do in their 2nd years!! They take off. Teddy flat-lined or maybe even went backwards. Then blows his knee out.
Those guys are in significantly better passing situations than Teddy was in. And if we want to compare guys in their second seasons, what was Cousins like in his? Sitting on the bench behind the great RG3? LOL.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:44 pm

The guy has done NOTHING to warrant he could be a legit Goff/Wentz type QB in this league. But you continue to disagree. You're drawing dead man. You arent changing my mind or anyone elses on here. We can put this to bed anytime now. Bridgewater will forever be mediocre at best.
He has at least won 11 games in a season, Cousins hasn’t even done that.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:44 pm
But you continue to disagree. You're drawing dead man. You arent changing my mind or anyone elses on here. We can put this to bed anytime now.
It is nice you can speak for everyone on here and I am sure a lot do choose to agree with you. Not because you are right, but because like you, they are blinded by fandom.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:44 pm
Bridgewater will forever be mediocre at best.
Cousins is 7 years in and is still mediocre, so….
0 x

User avatar
purplehaze
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4489
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:23 pm
Location: Viking Country

Re: Kirk Cousins is having an MVP season

Post by purplehaze » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:37 pm

Cousins is now what 5-14 in prime time? Has not beat a team with a winning record yet. I got one foot hanging out of the bandwagon.
0 x
“He's like a piece of gristle. He's got a great squirt in the hole"-- Brad Childress.

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5729
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:52 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:36 pm


Okay? Not sure what point you are trying to make here. He didn’t have that sub 20 TD season in 2016, and his walking had nothing to do with his play on the field. It is fun to deal in hypotheticals, but the reality is, based on his play in 2014 and 2015, the only seasons we have to go off of, management was all in on the guy.
Omg....Obviously they would be all in on him. It's his 2nd fricken year. Have you ever seen an organization give up on a first round pick after their 2nd year? No. So you saying the organization was "all in on him" means nothing. But his play had to improve going forward. And from year 1 to year 2, it was not a good sign.



Stat digging? Is it okay if I look at more than passing TDs or is that the only thing to measure a QB by? Bortles threw 35 passing TDs in a season, 6 more than Cousins ever has, so I guess that means Bortles is the better QB.
So here are some obscure stats in which Teddy improved: Ints, completion percentage, YPA, passer rating, QBR and a really obscure one, wins. His TD number went down because the RB lead the league in TDs and Teddy can’t throw for TDs when he is handing it off and his RB scores. Brady can’t either.
Clearly you arent reading my posts. You hone in on one thing and try to use that against me. I said that multiple things either dropped or stayed stagnant. Or if it improved, it was minimal. His YPA did not improve. It went down. Everything else improved by 0.9 or less. His passing ability wasnt very good in general and he struggled to read defenses. I guess I really have to put this in perspective for you.....

Jared Goff (year 1)- 7 games, 54.6%, 1,089 yards, 5.3 YPA, 5 TDs : 7 INTS
Jared Goff (year 2)- 15 games, 62.1%, 3,804 yards, 8.0 YPA, 28 TDs : 5 INTs
....and improved even more year 3 (MVP Candidate)

Carson Wentz (year 1)- 16 games, 62.4%, 3,782 yards, 6.2 YPA, 16 TDs : 14 INTs
Carson Wentz (year 2)- 13 games, 60.2%, 3,296, 7.5 YPA, 33 TDs : 7 INTs (MVP Candidate)

Mitch Trubisky (year 1)- 12 games, 59.4%, 2,193 yards, 6.6 YPA, 7 TDs : 7 INTs
Mitch Trubisky (year 2)- 10 games, 65.4 %, 2,469 yards, 7.7 YPA, 20 TDs : 9 INTs (missed 2 games and still has 4 games to go)

Pat Mahomes (year 1)- Sat all year until the final game
Pat Mahomes (year 2)- 12 games, 66.9%, 3,923 yards, 9,1 YPA, 41 TDs : 10 INTs (still 4 games to go, MVP Candidate)

Then you have.....

Teddy Bridgewater (year 1)- 13 games, 64.4%, 2,919 yards, 7.3 YPA, 14 TDs : 12 INTs
Teddy Bridgewater (year 2)- 16 games, 65.3%, 3,231 yards, 7.2 YPA, 14 TDs : 9 INTs


Guys that are "the answer" put up better than that garbage. Give all the excuses you want. Legit QBs show improvement. Not just little improvement. A lot. He showed next to none.
Weird that you would bring that up, because a really high completion percentage coupled with a low YPA, means the QB is throwing a lot of short, easy passes. Not something to that helps your argument bud.
I think that Kirk Cousins averaging 7.6 YPA over his career and never being below 7.7 in Washington does help my argument "bud". Teddy averages 7.2 on his career. Only reason Cousins is lower than normal is due to this dud of an OC and the lack of time he gets from his OL. Cousins was at 7.6, 7.7 and 8.1 his 3 years of being a full time starter in Washington. But you're sitting here arguing that Teddy's 7.2 average is better than Cousins 7.1 his one season here :roll:

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:44 pm
I prefer a 14th in scoring over a 24th scoring offense. Strange that you do not.
lol so you like Adrian Peterson's 14th scoring offense? Yeah me too.
Those guys are in significantly better passing situations than Teddy was in. And if we want to compare guys in their second seasons, what was Cousins like in his? Sitting on the bench behind the great RG3? LOL.
My god dude you are so narrow minded it's not even funny. RG3 was coming off a stud of a rookie year and Cousins was drafted as insurance to RGIII. Griffin was the 2nd overall pick. Cousins didnt go until the 4th round. But yeah, Washington should have started their 4th round pick over their 2nd overall pick that they traded the farm away for right after he won ROOKIE OF THE YEAR. Makes total sense....LOL! That's like you dissing Pat Mahomes for sitting behind Alex Smith his first year. RGIII was a stud before the injuries hit. But yeah, I'm starting to truly question how much you actually know about football.


He has at least won 11 games in a season, Cousins hasn’t even done that.
Teddy didnt win sh** and you know that. Again, look at the numbers. When AP played good, we won. When he didnt, we lost. We went 11-5 mainly due to Adrian Peterson. Not Teddy Bridgewaters passing ability. Dont give me the AP didnt give him a chance to throw sob story. Todd Gurley is running like a mad man this year and Jared Goff is still putting up MVP numbers.

It is nice you can speak for everyone on here and I am sure a lot do choose to agree with you. Not because you are right, but because like you, they are blinded by fandom.
Yeah I guess we're all blinded by "fandom" :roll: Pretty sure you're blinded by Teddy being a nice guy and feeling sorry for him. Because he sure didnt show a whole lot of talent compared to most first round picks.
Cousins is 7 years in and is still mediocre, so….
Cousins has 3 years (now 4) of being a starter. He's thrown for over 4,000 yards, 25+ TDs per season, 7.8 YPA and has a 67.1 completion percentage. Yeah.... sounds pretty average to me. Pretty comparable to Teddy's numbers :lol:
0 x
Image

StumpHunter
Starter
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:01 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:52 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:36 pm


Okay? Not sure what point you are trying to make here. He didn’t have that sub 20 TD season in 2016, and his walking had nothing to do with his play on the field. It is fun to deal in hypotheticals, but the reality is, based on his play in 2014 and 2015, the only seasons we have to go off of, management was all in on the guy.
Omg....Obviously they would be all in on him. It's his 2nd fricken year. Have you ever seen an organization give up on a first round pick after their 2nd year? No. So you saying the organization was "all in on him" means nothing. But his play had to improve going forward. And from year 1 to year 2, it was not a good sign.



Stat digging? Is it okay if I look at more than passing TDs or is that the only thing to measure a QB by? Bortles threw 35 passing TDs in a season, 6 more than Cousins ever has, so I guess that means Bortles is the better QB.
So here are some obscure stats in which Teddy improved: Ints, completion percentage, YPA, passer rating, QBR and a really obscure one, wins. His TD number went down because the RB lead the league in TDs and Teddy can’t throw for TDs when he is handing it off and his RB scores. Brady can’t either.
Clearly you arent reading my posts. You hone in on one thing and try to use that against me. I said that multiple things either dropped or stayed stagnant. Or if it improved, it was minimal. His YPA did not improve. It went down. Everything else improved by 0.9 or less. His passing ability wasnt very good in general and he struggled to read defenses. I guess I really have to put this in perspective for you.....

Jared Goff (year 1)- 7 games, 54.6%, 1,089 yards, 5.3 YPA, 5 TDs : 7 INTS
Jared Goff (year 2)- 15 games, 62.1%, 3,804 yards, 8.0 YPA, 28 TDs : 5 INTs
....and improved even more year 3 (MVP Candidate)

Carson Wentz (year 1)- 16 games, 62.4%, 3,782 yards, 6.2 YPA, 16 TDs : 14 INTs
Carson Wentz (year 2)- 13 games, 60.2%, 3,296, 7.5 YPA, 33 TDs : 7 INTs (MVP Candidate)

Mitch Trubisky (year 1)- 12 games, 59.4%, 2,193 yards, 6.6 YPA, 7 TDs : 7 INTs
Mitch Trubisky (year 2)- 10 games, 65.4 %, 2,469 yards, 7.7 YPA, 20 TDs : 9 INTs (missed 2 games and still has 4 games to go)

Pat Mahomes (year 1)- Sat all year until the final game
Pat Mahomes (year 2)- 12 games, 66.9%, 3,923 yards, 9,1 YPA, 41 TDs : 10 INTs (still 4 games to go, MVP Candidate)

Then you have.....

Teddy Bridgewater (year 1)- 13 games, 64.4%, 2,919 yards, 7.3 YPA, 14 TDs : 12 INTs
Teddy Bridgewater (year 2)- 16 games, 65.3%, 3,231 yards, 7.2 YPA, 14 TDs : 9 INTs


Guys that are "the answer" put up better than that garbage. Give all the excuses you want. Legit QBs show improvement. Not just little improvement. A lot. He showed next to none.
Weird that you would bring that up, because a really high completion percentage coupled with a low YPA, means the QB is throwing a lot of short, easy passes. Not something to that helps your argument bud.
I think that Kirk Cousins averaging 7.6 YPA over his career and never being below 7.7 in Washington does help my argument "bud". Teddy averages 7.2 on his career. Only reason Cousins is lower than normal is due to this dud of an OC and the lack of time he gets from his OL. Cousins was at 7.6, 7.7 and 8.1 his 3 years of being a full time starter in Washington. But you're sitting here arguing that Teddy's 7.2 average is better than Cousins 7.1 his one season here :roll:

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:44 pm
I prefer a 14th in scoring over a 24th scoring offense. Strange that you do not.
lol so you like Adrian Peterson's 14th scoring offense? Yeah me too.
Those guys are in significantly better passing situations than Teddy was in. And if we want to compare guys in their second seasons, what was Cousins like in his? Sitting on the bench behind the great RG3? LOL.
My god dude you are so narrow minded it's not even funny. RG3 was coming off a stud of a rookie year and Cousins was drafted as insurance to RGIII. Griffin was the 2nd overall pick. Cousins didnt go until the 4th round. But yeah, Washington should have started their 4th round pick over their 2nd overall pick that they traded the farm away for right after he won ROOKIE OF THE YEAR. Makes total sense....LOL! That's like you dissing Pat Mahomes for sitting behind Alex Smith his first year. RGIII was a stud before the injuries hit. But yeah, I'm starting to truly question how much you actually know about football.


He has at least won 11 games in a season, Cousins hasn’t even done that.
Teddy didnt win sh** and you know that. Again, look at the numbers. When AP played good, we won. When he didnt, we lost. We went 11-5 mainly due to Adrian Peterson. Not Teddy Bridgewaters passing ability. Dont give me the AP didnt give him a chance to throw sob story. Todd Gurley is running like a mad man this year and Jared Goff is still putting up MVP numbers.

It is nice you can speak for everyone on here and I am sure a lot do choose to agree with you. Not because you are right, but because like you, they are blinded by fandom.
Yeah I guess we're all blinded by "fandom" :roll: Pretty sure you're blinded by Teddy being a nice guy and feeling sorry for him. Because he sure didnt show a whole lot of talent compared to most first round picks.
Cousins is 7 years in and is still mediocre, so….
Cousins has 3 years (now 4) of being a starter. He's thrown for over 4,000 yards, 25+ TDs per season, 7.8 YPA and has a 67.1 completion percentage. Yeah.... sounds pretty average to me. Pretty comparable to Teddy's numbers :lol:
Averaging 8 wins a season is what you would call...mediocre, average, pedestrian. Struggling against good teams, and beating up on bad ones is what would call mediocre. Taking a 13-3 team to what will probably be a 9 win season is what a mediocre QB does. Leading an offense that was 8th in scoring to 24th is pretty mediocre.

I hope he figures things out, I really do.

Every one of those 2nd year guys you mention above got significant help in their second year over their first. Teddy's offensive weapons arguably got worse outside of the RB who hurt the passing game. Worse Oline and worse receivers. It also isn't his fault he had a much better rookie campaign compared to those other guys, and had less room to improve.

Here are some super biased guys who actually watched film on the Teddy's 2015 season:
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/film- ... ridgewater

They go a little more in-depth than "He don't throw touchdown good".
0 x

User avatar
PacificNorseWest
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2632
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:10 am
Location: Seattle, Wa

Re: Kirk Cousins is having an MVP season

Post by PacificNorseWest » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:03 pm

Cian Fahey is a moron. :lol:

Dig deeper into some of his tweets and "analysis" you'll see he knows nothing about the quarterback position.


FYI, I loved Teddy and I like Kirk...I was just following along in the post and clicked the link and saw his name is all.
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5729
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:23 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:01 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:52 pm


Omg....Obviously they would be all in on him. It's his 2nd fricken year. Have you ever seen an organization give up on a first round pick after their 2nd year? No. So you saying the organization was "all in on him" means nothing. But his play had to improve going forward. And from year 1 to year 2, it was not a good sign.






Clearly you arent reading my posts. You hone in on one thing and try to use that against me. I said that multiple things either dropped or stayed stagnant. Or if it improved, it was minimal. His YPA did not improve. It went down. Everything else improved by 0.9 or less. His passing ability wasnt very good in general and he struggled to read defenses. I guess I really have to put this in perspective for you.....

Jared Goff (year 1)- 7 games, 54.6%, 1,089 yards, 5.3 YPA, 5 TDs : 7 INTS
Jared Goff (year 2)- 15 games, 62.1%, 3,804 yards, 8.0 YPA, 28 TDs : 5 INTs
....and improved even more year 3 (MVP Candidate)

Carson Wentz (year 1)- 16 games, 62.4%, 3,782 yards, 6.2 YPA, 16 TDs : 14 INTs
Carson Wentz (year 2)- 13 games, 60.2%, 3,296, 7.5 YPA, 33 TDs : 7 INTs (MVP Candidate)

Mitch Trubisky (year 1)- 12 games, 59.4%, 2,193 yards, 6.6 YPA, 7 TDs : 7 INTs
Mitch Trubisky (year 2)- 10 games, 65.4 %, 2,469 yards, 7.7 YPA, 20 TDs : 9 INTs (missed 2 games and still has 4 games to go)

Pat Mahomes (year 1)- Sat all year until the final game
Pat Mahomes (year 2)- 12 games, 66.9%, 3,923 yards, 9,1 YPA, 41 TDs : 10 INTs (still 4 games to go, MVP Candidate)

Then you have.....

Teddy Bridgewater (year 1)- 13 games, 64.4%, 2,919 yards, 7.3 YPA, 14 TDs : 12 INTs
Teddy Bridgewater (year 2)- 16 games, 65.3%, 3,231 yards, 7.2 YPA, 14 TDs : 9 INTs


Guys that are "the answer" put up better than that garbage. Give all the excuses you want. Legit QBs show improvement. Not just little improvement. A lot. He showed next to none.



I think that Kirk Cousins averaging 7.6 YPA over his career and never being below 7.7 in Washington does help my argument "bud". Teddy averages 7.2 on his career. Only reason Cousins is lower than normal is due to this dud of an OC and the lack of time he gets from his OL. Cousins was at 7.6, 7.7 and 8.1 his 3 years of being a full time starter in Washington. But you're sitting here arguing that Teddy's 7.2 average is better than Cousins 7.1 his one season here :roll:




lol so you like Adrian Peterson's 14th scoring offense? Yeah me too.



My god dude you are so narrow minded it's not even funny. RG3 was coming off a stud of a rookie year and Cousins was drafted as insurance to RGIII. Griffin was the 2nd overall pick. Cousins didnt go until the 4th round. But yeah, Washington should have started their 4th round pick over their 2nd overall pick that they traded the farm away for right after he won ROOKIE OF THE YEAR. Makes total sense....LOL! That's like you dissing Pat Mahomes for sitting behind Alex Smith his first year. RGIII was a stud before the injuries hit. But yeah, I'm starting to truly question how much you actually know about football.




Teddy didnt win sh** and you know that. Again, look at the numbers. When AP played good, we won. When he didnt, we lost. We went 11-5 mainly due to Adrian Peterson. Not Teddy Bridgewaters passing ability. Dont give me the AP didnt give him a chance to throw sob story. Todd Gurley is running like a mad man this year and Jared Goff is still putting up MVP numbers.



Yeah I guess we're all blinded by "fandom" :roll: Pretty sure you're blinded by Teddy being a nice guy and feeling sorry for him. Because he sure didnt show a whole lot of talent compared to most first round picks.



Cousins has 3 years (now 4) of being a starter. He's thrown for over 4,000 yards, 25+ TDs per season, 7.8 YPA and has a 67.1 completion percentage. Yeah.... sounds pretty average to me. Pretty comparable to Teddy's numbers :lol:
Averaging 8 wins a season is what you would call...mediocre, average, pedestrian. Struggling against good teams, and beating up on bad ones is what would call mediocre. Taking a 13-3 team to what will probably be a 9 win season is what a mediocre QB does. Leading an offense that was 8th in scoring to 24th is pretty mediocre.

I hope he figures things out, I really do.

Every one of those 2nd year guys you mention above got significant help in their second year over their first. Teddy's offensive weapons arguably got worse outside of the RB who hurt the passing game. Worse Oline and worse receivers. It also isn't his fault he had a much better rookie campaign compared to those other guys, and had less room to improve.

Here are some super biased guys who actually watched film on the Teddy's 2015 season:
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/film- ... ridgewater

They go a little more in-depth than "He don't throw touchdown good".
Kirk cousins has already thrown more TDs than Keenum did last year. And we still have 4 games left. Kirk cousins is scoring. The difference is our RBs are not. We aren’t even running the ball. So yeah, our scoring offense stat is down but it’s nothing to do with our passing offense. Kirk cousins doesn’t run the football or call plays. That’s on Flip and his playcalling. Cousins is doing his job for the most part. He’s probably going to hit 30+ Tds this year which would be the most of his career. You want to talk about “scoring offenses” when cousins will have more TD passes than Teddy did in two years 😂But you’re defending him.....

The running back hurt the passing game? Dude what? If anything, a good RB HELPS the passing game. It opens a lot up for the passing game. Never have I heard of a good RB “hurting the passing game”. That doesn’t even make sense. Problem was, Teddy couldn’t put the weight of a game on his shoulders. Adrian Peterson could. They couldn’t rely on Teddy winning us a game with his arm. When AP crapped the bed and/or the defense did, we lost. The game was put in Teddy’s hands twice that year. Denver and Arizona. And he held the ball too long both times and was strip sacked.

This offense has zero balance. Flip is nowhere near the OC that Shurmur was and you know it. No less our OL is on pace to SET A RECORD for pressures given up in a season with 260+. And it will shatter the record. So tell me how Kirk Cousins is the problem? He’s not. Shurmur knew how to hide a bad OL. Flip doesn’t have a clue. He just continues to throw 40-50 times a game and not run the ball. I’m honestly surprised Cousins hasn’t been in an ambulance yet.

Teddy had the best RB in the game and had an OL that didn’t give up near the pressure ours currently does. That’s a huge difference. And how was his OL worse?? On paper maybe, but not when you look at the numbers. Our OL is about to go down in history for the most pressures given up. How do you get worse than that? And teddy still put up pathetic numbers. Two years in a row no less.

If Teddy was an answer...anywhere, he’d be starting somewhere. Someone would have made a strong push for him that needed a QB. They didn’t. He was a last resort along with AJ Mccarron when others got signed.

Nobody is saying cousins is having an MVP season anymore but I can tell you right now, he’s 10 times the QB Teddy is and ever will be. And it’s not even close. No different than Keenum. You’re comparing cousins to one of the worst starters in the nfl in Keenum and a backup QB. There should be no argument. But you just keep pushing.
0 x
Image

StumpHunter
Starter
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am

Re: Kirk Cousins is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:28 am

PacificNorseWest wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:03 pm
Cian Fahey is a moron. :lol:

Dig deeper into some of his tweets and "analysis" you'll see he knows nothing about the quarterback position.


FYI, I loved Teddy and I like Kirk...I was just following along in the post and clicked the link and saw his name is all.
Meh, at least his analysis is better than "He no throw touchdown good".
0 x

StumpHunter
Starter
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:53 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:23 pm
There should be no argument.
And yet you keep writing these massive paragraphs, doing just that.

You asked what I would have done this off-season, and I told you. That is when you started saying idiotic stuff like AP helped the passing game in 2015, that this year's line is much worse than a line with Matt Kahlil, TJ Clemmings and Brandon Fusco, you prefer the 24th scoring offense to the 14th and that it would be foolish to go all in on Teddy Bridgewater with a SB caliber team, when in 2016 they did just that.

Here is the thing though, there is a good chance that re-signing Teddy and a guy like Fitzpatrick was the better option regardless of how either of those two played. It is better to only be locked into a bad QB for a year, than just an okay one on a massive contract for 3. And that is what Cousins has been so far, okay, mediocre, average.

And before you go spouting off about how bad a starter Keenum is, Cousins and Keenum have roughly the same amount of passes playing as a Vikings, and here are the results:
3490 yards, 22 TDs 7 ints 7.4 YPA 98.3 passer rating and a 74.3 QBR on 481 attempts and 2 million dollars

3490 yards, 23 TDs 9 ints 7.2 YPA 99.1 passer rating and 63.5 QBR on 491 attempts and 24 million dollars

Almost identical, and when you throw in fumbles, Case wins in a landslide.

So our great QB is having a more turnover prone year with near identical production, production helped out a ton by garbage time TDs and yards, than a bad starter. Well worth the 84 million.
0 x

User avatar
Cliff
Site Admin
Posts: 8645
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Cliff » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:09 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:23 pm
No less our OL is on pace to SET A RECORD for pressures given up in a season with 260+. And it will shatter the record. So tell me how Kirk Cousins is the problem?
I'll take a crack at that. I'd argue that he holds the ball too long and brings a lot of those pressures on himself. Despite him "shattering the record" for most pressures, he's actually pretty close to average in "time to throw". He ranks 21st with 2.67 seconds. Keeping in mind that the differences these QBs have are generally fractions of a second. From 15th place to last place are .1 seconds apart or less. The average time to throw is 2.74 and Kirk gets 2.67.

What that says to me is a good number of Cousins pressures/sacks are a result of him holding the ball too long. Which matches what I've seen with the "eye" test. The offensive line has it's problems but overall Kirk is getting enough time. He shouldn't be taking so many pressures and sacks.
1 x

StumpHunter
Starter
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:45 am

Cliff wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:09 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:23 pm
No less our OL is on pace to SET A RECORD for pressures given up in a season with 260+. And it will shatter the record. So tell me how Kirk Cousins is the problem?
I'll take a crack at that. I'd argue that he holds the ball too long and brings a lot of those pressures on himself. Despite him "shattering the record" for most pressures, he's actually pretty close to average in "time to throw". He ranks 21st with 2.67 seconds. Keeping in mind that the differences these QBs have are generally fractions of a second. From 15th place to last place are .1 seconds apart or less. The average time to throw is 2.74 and Kirk gets 2.67.

What that says to me is a good number of Cousins pressures/sacks are a result of him holding the ball too long. Which matches what I've seen with the "eye" test. The offensive line has it's problems but overall Kirk is getting enough time. He shouldn't be taking so many pressures and sacks.
2.67 Timetothrow is actually a pretty long time for a pure pocket passer.

If given the option between what Bradford did in 2016, getting rid of the ball quickly whether pressure got there or not, picking up 3 yards on 3rd and 7, and Cousins holding the ball to the absolute last split second, I take Cousins. Best yet would be what Teddy and Case did though, buying time for themselves with their legs instead of having to rely 100% on the line.
1 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5729
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:56 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:53 am

You asked what I would have done this off-season, and I told you. That is when you started saying idiotic stuff like AP helped the passing game in 2015, that this year's line is much worse than a line with Matt Kahlil, TJ Clemmings and Brandon Fusco, you prefer the 24th scoring offense to the 14th and that it would be foolish to go all in on Teddy Bridgewater with a SB caliber team, when in 2016 they did just that.
Oh so that's idiotic to say? When Adrian Peterson had his 2nd best season EVER when we had a legit quarterback here in 2009. So dont sit there and say he doesnt help the passing game. That's like saying Todd Gurley doesnt help the Rams passing game. And I'm sure you'll go down the "Well AP couldnt catch the ball" road. He didnt have the "greatest" hands in the world but the guy could still catch the football and was dangerous in open space. AP also had his BEST season ever receiving the ball in 2009 when we actually had a good QB here and it was by a significant amount. When you have a RB that dangerous, you load the box as a defense. In turn, that opens up more in the passing game because teams were so worried about Peterson. Teams ASKED Teddy Bridgewater to beat them with his arm. His numbers alone showed he couldnt really do that. Because when the running game failed, the team failed. When the running game was working, we won.
Here is the thing though, there is a good chance that re-signing Teddy and a guy like Fitzpatrick was the better option regardless of how either of those two played. It is better to only be locked into a bad QB for a year, than just an okay one on a massive contract for 3. And that is what Cousins has been so far, okay, mediocre, average.
This is what you dont get. It's better to be "locked into a bad QB for a year". No! It's not. Because if and when that idea fails, we are back to the drawing board and need to draft a rookie QB, which in turn, wastes yet another year. And then we are heading into 2020, where we have most big names signed until, sitting and "hoping" our 2nd year QB makes a jump because our SB window is a year or so away from possibly closing. Kirk Cousins had 3 years of consistent play. Kirk Cousins is a top 10-12 QB in this league. He isnt a "bad" QB and we can surround him with a ton of talent. That is way more of a sure thing than to just take a shot on a below average QB hoping he has a Keenum miracle year and can bring us to a SB somehow. This is the QUARTERBACK position man. Not weakside linebacker or offensive guard where you can just plug in a below average guy and hide him. You cant mob-job the QB position and expect to have success. And not just in one year. Year after year. It's near impossible.
And before you go spouting off about how bad a starter Keenum is, Cousins and Keenum have roughly the same amount of passes playing as a Vikings, and here are the results:
3490 yards, 22 TDs 7 ints 7.4 YPA 98.3 passer rating and a 74.3 QBR on 481 attempts and 2 million dollars

3490 yards, 23 TDs 9 ints 7.2 YPA 99.1 passer rating and 63.5 QBR on 491 attempts and 24 million dollars

Almost identical, and when you throw in fumbles, Case wins in a landslide.
Of course you leave out completion percentage lol. And Case did that in 15 games. Kirk has done that in 12 games. And again, Keenum rode that year on luck, literally. I've gone into detail multiple times regarding that but you seem to forget. Also, who gives a SH** what he did last year. What matter is right NOW.

Cousins- 3490 yards, 23 TDs, 9 ints, 8 fumbles, 71.3 comp %, 7.2 YPA, 99.1 passer rating and 63.5 QBR on 491 attempts and 24 million dollars

Keenum (Denver)- 2,953 yards, 14 TDs, 10 INTs, 6 fumbles, 62.3 comp %, 7.2 YPA, 85.1 passer rating and 46.9 QBR on 411 attempts and 18 million dollars.

And to add on, Denver has the 5th best rushing attack in the NFL. We are 30th. No less the Cousins will go down as the most pressured QB in NFL history by years end. The thing that gets me is the TDs and accuracy. Shatters Keenum and they are probably two of the most important things you have to do as a QB. Score points and throw the ball with accuracy.
So our great QB is having a more turnover prone year with near identical production, production helped out a ton by garbage time TDs and yards, than a bad starter. Well worth the 84 million.
Classic Cousins hater comment lol. His stats are because of "garbage time!!" :roll: You're a hater. We get it. You dont need to continue to stress that. But to support below average QBs makes zero sense.
0 x
Image

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5729
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:49 pm

Cliff wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:09 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:23 pm
No less our OL is on pace to SET A RECORD for pressures given up in a season with 260+. And it will shatter the record. So tell me how Kirk Cousins is the problem?
I'll take a crack at that. I'd argue that he holds the ball too long and brings a lot of those pressures on himself. Despite him "shattering the record" for most pressures, he's actually pretty close to average in "time to throw". He ranks 21st with 2.67 seconds. Keeping in mind that the differences these QBs have are generally fractions of a second. From 15th place to last place are .1 seconds apart or less. The average time to throw is 2.74 and Kirk gets 2.67.

What that says to me is a good number of Cousins pressures/sacks are a result of him holding the ball too long. Which matches what I've seen with the "eye" test. The offensive line has it's problems but overall Kirk is getting enough time. He shouldn't be taking so many pressures and sacks.
Again, this goes back to the stat I provided a few pages ago. Our offensive line is 5th best in adjusted sack rate. The only QB that has thrown more balls this year is Big Ben. When you're passing 45 times a game, it's going to result in more pressures/sacks. Its inevitable. And also lets consider that not one team is stacking the box against us because they are worried about our running game. Part of Cousins holding the ball is due to coverage sacks. Announcers say it more than once a game. THAT is how much of an effect Flip is having on this offense. It's a domino effect into every aspect all due to lack of balance and creativity.
0 x
Image