Kirk Cousins is having an MVP season

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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Cliff » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:14 pm

I also hope that Cousins got a little more comfortable with his receivers last night. It seemed like he was throwing it up and letting them make plays a little more and they came through. Him and Rudolph also seemed to develop some chemistry finally. Hopefully he can start being another weapon on the offense on a more regular basis. I think having a real threat at TE could push the offense onto another level. Not that Rudolph isn't a threat exactly, but if the ball isn't coming his way he can't be.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:21 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:30 am


I am cool with that. You draft your franchise QB, you don't buy him.

I didn't want Keenum long term. I thought he was an extremely limited QB who would regress if anything happened to one of his two elite receivers. I wanted Mahomes or Watson in 2017 if Teddy was really done, but since our GM screwed that up royally, I would go Teddy this year, draft pick next year if he didn't work out, or maybe even Keenum this year along with a draft pick this year or next, with Case filling in in the caretaker role.
Dude do you not realize how long it takes to groom an NFL QB? Or how difficult it is to find one day one that can come in and play good enough to win you a SB?? Pretty easy to sit here NOW and say "yeah I wanted Mahomes or Watson!!". Well yeah, who wouldnt take them right now? Did you know Mahomes could lead an NFL offense? Any QB that has came out of Texas Tech barely makes it in the NFL. Did you know Watson could come in day 1 and be in the MVP running? Come on. They were good college players but nobody can sit here and honestly say Mahomes was going to be THIS good or that Watson would be an MVP candidate in 2017. And either way, we would have been sitting at 14 that year. They both went at 10 and 12. And nobody predicted the Chiefs to come from 27 down to 10 to take Mahomes when they had Alex Smith or the Texans coming from 25. So chances are, we would have missed out regardless.

Either way, out of all the QBs drafted since Teddy went down, the only that was a legit day 1 starter was Watson. Mahomes sat an entire year, this year the QBs have been very underwhelming, Goff looked like a bust, Wentz was middle of the road at best, Trubisky looked mediocre and Lynch was awful. So in turn, we would have wasted at LEAST an entire year of a SB caliber roster. Also, what do you expect Rick Spielman to do when you have a roster that good and lose your starter before week 1? Lay down and start Shaun Hill the rest of the year? I sure hope not. He took a shot. I dont blame him. I would've done the same. If you were a bad team, then lay down. We werent tho. Not even close. You find someone that could possibly get you there. That's what we tried doing.

Either way, you went from backing the Keenum train, to the Teddy train, to now, "should have drafted a QB!!". You didnt mention a WORD about drafting a QB and settling for Teddy this year. You simply said, "we would be better off with Teddy and a "solid backup"". Now we should have drafted Mahomes or Watson. Or traded up (from 30 no less), give up the FARM to draft Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, etc. Bottom line is, you're a Cousins hater. Simple as that. Dont bother fighting it because it's obvious to everyone on here. If you dont like him so be it, nothing wrong with it. But get your stories straight. You are all over the place with alternatives other than Cousins. You lose a battle on one and jump right to another. And now you're finally resorting to, "I wanted Mahomes or Watson". Yeah....I'm sure you did. Because you had no other leg to stand on at this point.

Kirk Cousins is our QB. We have moved on from the MVP talk. We are happy with how he played last night (against that defense you HAD to point out before last nights game) and we know that he was the best option out there for us this year. What more is there to argue about? What's done is done. And you've ran out of options.
Barnett strip sacked Keenum in the NFC Championship game I believe, and recovered the game winning fumble in the SB. They also used the other pick we sent to them on Ajayi, who played pretty well for them down the stretch. They might have won without those picks, but the picks they got certainly contributed, and not having them certainly hurt the Vikings.
Yeah Barnett had a strip sack on Keenum. That's about it. Recovering a fumble? I could go out during the SB and recover a fumble. That doesnt make you a good football player. I could say, Jarmarca Sanford recovered a fumble in the playoffs for us. Does that mean anything at all or say that he is an impact player? No. Anyone can recover a fumble.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:14 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:21 pm


Dude do you not realize how long it takes to groom an NFL QB? Or how difficult it is to find one day one that can come in and play good enough to win you a SB?? Pretty easy to sit here NOW and say "yeah I wanted Mahomes or Watson!!".

Wentz, Goff, Trubiskey, Watson and Mahommes all are/were good to great QBs in their second seasons. Trubiskey is pretty solid in his second season. Teddy was 11-6 in his second season with very little to work with outside of a rookie Diggs.

It is easier to win it all with a QB on his rookie contract than it is to win it with a QB making over 10% of the salary cap. It just is.

It was obvious to anyone with a brain that Bradford wasn't the answer at QB. If you don't believe Teddy is going to come back from his injury, how do you give away the most proven way to get a franchise guy (a first round pick) after he goes down? What is the horrible thought process behind that?
Either way, you went from backing the Keenum train, to the Teddy train, to now, "should have drafted a QB!!".
Nope, I never thought Keenum was the answer and all things being equal I would prefer Cousins. Since we didn't draft a QB in 2017, I would have taken a chance on Teddy's knee. If the Vikings didn't think Teddy could come back from that knee, they shouldn't have given up their only shot at drafting a franchise guy. So many horrible decisions.

I guess what this all boils down to is, I don't want Rick to get a pass with his QB decisions because Cousins is putting up numbers while losing and running a lousy offense. He thought McNabb, Ponder, Cassel, and Bradford were viable options as starters, and fell #### backwards into the second best backup in the NFL in 2017. He brought in Cousins because he thinks this is a SB team, like you said, so the standard he should be held to should be for Cousins to get this team to compete for a SB. Not good passing stats. Until Cousins gets the Vikes to that point (a point they were already at with a journeyman QB at the helm, I might add) the signing cannot be considered a success.

This is not an I told you so btw. I don't think today's game proves anything, and Cousins will be here 2 more seasons and still has an opportunity this season to earn his paycheck. Just doesn't seem very likely at this point.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by YikesVikes » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:32 pm

How about we protect him and see how good he can be? Its not his fault that Theilan dropped the first deep pass. Not his fault two PIs weren't call. The last Into also not on him as Theilan gave up and didn't attack the pass.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by 808vikingsfan » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:44 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:32 pm
How about we protect him and see how good he can be? Its not his fault that Theilan dropped the first deep pass. Not his fault two PIs weren't call. The last Into also not on him as Theilan gave up and didn't attack the pass.
What kind of protection are we talking about? Every qb has to deal with pressure.
How about hitting Thielen in stride instead over throwing. Put it this way, a better pass to Thielen and to Robinson could have made the difference between winning and losing today.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:11 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:32 pm
How about we protect him and see how good he can be? Its not his fault that Theilan dropped the first deep pass. Not his fault two PIs weren't call. The last Into also not on him as Theilan gave up and didn't attack the pass.
Wow. What game were you watching? Brady's receivers dropped passes. PI calls were missed (the Refs were letting both team's CB's play physical). He also faced a significantly better pass rush.

Seriously, the pass blocking was not the problem, an overthrown pass that was not circus caught was not the problem, the QB was the problem.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by YikesVikes » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:29 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:44 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:32 pm
How about we protect him and see how good he can be? Its not his fault that Theilan dropped the first deep pass. Not his fault two PIs weren't call. The last Into also not on him as Theilan gave up and didn't attack the pass.
What kind of protection are we talking about? Every qb has to deal with pressure.
How about hitting Thielen in stride instead over throwing. Put it this way, a better pass to Thielen and to Robinson could have made the difference between winning and losing today.
I don't think you can be serious. Cousins had an OK game today. I would give him a B-. This line is horrible. 3 holding calls, missed blocks, tons of pressure every week. Both passes were catchable balls that should have been caught.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:54 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:11 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:32 pm
How about we protect him and see how good he can be? Its not his fault that Theilan dropped the first deep pass. Not his fault two PIs weren't call. The last Into also not on him as Theilan gave up and didn't attack the pass.
Wow. What game were you watching? Brady's receivers dropped passes. PI calls were missed (the Refs were letting both team's CB's play physical). He also faced a significantly better pass rush.

Seriously, the pass blocking was not the problem, an overthrown pass that was not circus caught was not the problem, the QB was the problem.
Dude this is simply you being a cousins hater. I don’t think there was one time I can recall where our OL picked up a blitz from NE. They blitzed all game! Cousins has been pressured 201 times this season. 201!!!! Keenum was pressured 220 times all of last year. And that 201 does NOT count tonight’s game. And we still have 4 games left.

Kirk Cousins was far from the problem tonight. The problem was the pass blocking by the OL and DeFillippo. To give Dalvin Cook 9 carries when he was carving up NE is just stupid.
Cousins was sacked two times, but he was under pressure even more often while taking six hits during the game. He rarely had time for plays to develop downfield, and 12 of his 32 completions were to running backs.
The fact that you don’t see that, simply tells me and others that no matter what happens, no matter what the cause of our loss was, you’re blaming cousins 9 times out of 10. It’s obvious. Go ahead and pull up all the stats you can from last night. It doesn’t matter. He was under pressure ALL night and the fact that you don’t see that and think he’s the problem is mind boggling. But you have the balls to sit on here and defend Teddy birdgewater of all QBs. The same QB that had our passing offense buried at the bottom of the nfl both years he started. But you think Kirk cousins is the problem this year? And you wonder why guys continue to question you.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:19 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:29 pm
808vikingsfan wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:44 pm

What kind of protection are we talking about? Every qb has to deal with pressure.
How about hitting Thielen in stride instead over throwing. Put it this way, a better pass to Thielen and to Robinson could have made the difference between winning and losing today.
I don't think you can be serious. Cousins had an OK game today. I would give him a B-. This line is horrible. 3 holding calls, missed blocks, tons of pressure every week. Both passes were catchable balls that should have been caught.
Make up all the excuses you want, Cousins had time to throw on both plays. You can't deny if the passes were better, it would have made a difference. Great call on 3rd down, great route, if Cousins hits Thielen in stride, couldve been a td. Same with Robinson in the endzone. Cousins has been getting bailed by Diggs and Thielen all year, you can't rely on spectacular catches. Imo, from what I've seen so far, esp in the 3 games after the bye, he's doing the same thing he did in Washington. Rack up stats , but fail in critical situations. No one will convince me otherwise except for Cousins.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Cliff » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:36 am

Yesterday wasn't all on Cousins at all. The offensive line is the problem. For the kind of QB he is I'm more and more concerned he's not the right qb for the way this team is built ... even if he is the better QB. He's not good at escaping pressure.

He also started throwing picks when the team needed him to step up most which was a big complaint coming out of Washington. It's starting to feel like Jay Cutler in Chicago. He just never quite fit.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:24 am

Cliff wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:36 am
Yesterday wasn't all on Cousins at all. The offensive line is the problem. For the kind of QB he is I'm more and more concerned he's not the right qb for the way this team is built ... even if he is the better QB. He's not good at escaping pressure.

He also started throwing picks when the team needed him to step up most which was a big complaint coming out of Washington. It's starting to feel like Jay Cutler in Chicago. He just never quite fit.
I can agree with this. The Oline isn't good enough for COUSINS to be successful. A better QB, or a more mobile one could be, but not Cousins.

You put a great line in front of Cousins and we will be fine. That is just easier said than done.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:04 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:54 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:11 pm


Wow. What game were you watching? Brady's receivers dropped passes. PI calls were missed (the Refs were letting both team's CB's play physical). He also faced a significantly better pass rush.

Seriously, the pass blocking was not the problem, an overthrown pass that was not circus caught was not the problem, the QB was the problem.
Dude this is simply you being a cousins hater. I don’t think there was one time I can recall where our OL picked up a blitz from NE. They blitzed all game! Cousins has been pressured 201 times this season. 201!!!! Keenum was pressured 220 times all of last year. And that 201 does NOT count tonight’s game. And we still have 4 games left.

Kirk Cousins was far from the problem tonight. The problem was the pass blocking by the OL and DeFillippo. To give Dalvin Cook 9 carries when he was carving up NE is just stupid.
Cousins was sacked two times, but he was under pressure even more often while taking six hits during the game. He rarely had time for plays to develop downfield, and 12 of his 32 completions were to running backs.
The fact that you don’t see that, simply tells me and others that no matter what happens, no matter what the cause of our loss was, you’re blaming cousins 9 times out of 10. It’s obvious. Go ahead and pull up all the stats you can from last night. It doesn’t matter. He was under pressure ALL night and the fact that you don’t see that and think he’s the problem is mind boggling. But you have the balls to sit on here and defend Teddy birdgewater of all QBs. The same QB that had our passing offense buried at the bottom of the nfl both years he started. But you think Kirk cousins is the problem this year? And you wonder why guys continue to question you.
How silly of me to think the guy who was the answer in 2016, would still be the answer in 2018. Especially after seeing him moving and throwing the ball well all pre-season. I clearly know nothing about football.

The problem was Cousins last night. NE stunted and were sending their DE free up the middle where their DT held our center. A good QB would run away from a single rusher to buy time to the right (since that is the place the DE vacated), our QB faded back and checked it down. This is something that NE saw on tape and exploited, but is easily correctable once Cousins sees it on tape. Hopefully.

There were also times where there was not pressure and Cousins struggled as well though, which is more concerning. The picks there was no pressure, he just made bad throws. The overthrow of a wide open Thielen was not because of pressure. He just didn't make plays last night, and we needed him too.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:02 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:04 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:54 pm


Dude this is simply you being a cousins hater. I don’t think there was one time I can recall where our OL picked up a blitz from NE. They blitzed all game! Cousins has been pressured 201 times this season. 201!!!! Keenum was pressured 220 times all of last year. And that 201 does NOT count tonight’s game. And we still have 4 games left.

Kirk Cousins was far from the problem tonight. The problem was the pass blocking by the OL and DeFillippo. To give Dalvin Cook 9 carries when he was carving up NE is just stupid.



The fact that you don’t see that, simply tells me and others that no matter what happens, no matter what the cause of our loss was, you’re blaming cousins 9 times out of 10. It’s obvious. Go ahead and pull up all the stats you can from last night. It doesn’t matter. He was under pressure ALL night and the fact that you don’t see that and think he’s the problem is mind boggling. But you have the balls to sit on here and defend Teddy birdgewater of all QBs. The same QB that had our passing offense buried at the bottom of the nfl both years he started. But you think Kirk cousins is the problem this year? And you wonder why guys continue to question you.
How silly of me to think the guy who was the answer in 2016, would still be the answer in 2018. Especially after seeing him moving and throwing the ball well all pre-season. I clearly know nothing about football.

The problem was Cousins last night. NE stunted and were sending their DE free up the middle where their DT held our center. A good QB would run away from a single rusher to buy time to the right (since that is the place the DE vacated), our QB faded back and checked it down. This is something that NE saw on tape and exploited, but is easily correctable once Cousins sees it on tape. Hopefully.

There were also times where there was not pressure and Cousins struggled as well though, which is more concerning. The picks there was no pressure, he just made bad throws. The overthrow of a wide open Thielen was not because of pressure. He just didn't make plays last night, and we needed him too.
Teddy WAS the answer? Based off what man? Look at his numbers. He was a below average at best game managing QB. Yeah a guy that threw a whopping 14 TDs in his first year and improved little in his 2nd year by throwing for 14 more once again (and played more games) is "our answer". But hey, he moved and threw well against 2nd-3rd stringers in the preseason so he must be the answer now! No. Saying he was the answer for this team, doesnt help your argument thats for sure. It causes fans to drastically question your thinking. Because not one fan on here, not one NFL analysts, not anyone is mentioning or thinking Teddy Bridgewater was our answer OVER Kirk Cousins other than you. So yeah, I really cant tell what you know and dont know about football. But I can tell you that your argument will continue to carry little weight. Given the guy STILL hasnt been back to being a starter in this league and might now ever. But THAT's the guy that was our answer over Kirk Cousins...... I'm done
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by StumpHunter » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:25 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:02 pm


Teddy WAS the answer? Based off what man? Look at his numbers. He was a below average at best game managing QB. Yeah a guy that threw a whopping 14 TDs in his first year and improved little in his 2nd year by throwing for 14 more once again (and played more games) is "our answer". But hey, he moved and threw well against 2nd-3rd stringers in the preseason so he must be the answer now! No. Saying he was the answer for this team, doesnt help your argument thats for sure. It causes fans to drastically question your thinking. Because not one fan on here, not one NFL analysts, not anyone is mentioning or thinking Teddy Bridgewater was our answer OVER Kirk Cousins other than you. So yeah, I really cant tell what you know and dont know about football. But I can tell you that your argument will continue to carry little weight. Given the guy STILL hasnt been back to being a starter in this league and might now ever. But THAT's the guy that was our answer over Kirk Cousins...... I'm done
He was the answer to the GM and HC in 2016. When you don't draft a QB, or have any reasonable backup plan, and you feel you are a SB team, doesn't that mean you think your current QB was the answer? Sorry if you don't like Teddy's TD numbers, but Vikings management sure felt the same way about Teddy as I did.

Personally, I would love to have the 2015 offense that Teddy lead right now. Horrible line, his best receiver a rookie, with the rest being garbage He still managed to get more YPA than the great Cousins. I wonder what he could do in a legit passing offense and not one built around a RB who doesn't help in the passing game, throwing to the veteran Diggs and Thielen? I know what Cousins can do, and I haven't been impressed.
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Re: Kirk Cousin is having an MVP season

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:26 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:19 am
YikesVikes wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:29 pm


I don't think you can be serious. Cousins had an OK game today. I would give him a B-. This line is horrible. 3 holding calls, missed blocks, tons of pressure every week. Both passes were catchable balls that should have been caught.
Make up all the excuses you want, Cousins had time to throw on both plays. You can't deny if the passes were better, it would have made a difference. Great call on 3rd down, great route, if Cousins hits Thielen in stride, couldve been a td. Same with Robinson in the endzone. Cousins has been getting bailed by Diggs and Thielen all year, you can't rely on spectacular catches. Imo, from what I've seen so far, esp in the 3 games after the bye, he's doing the same thing he did in Washington. Rack up stats , but fail in critical situations. No one will convince me otherwise except for Cousins.
Seriously dude? Thielen had 2 guys right on his back so I doubt it would be 6 and watch the replay, Thielen laid out and it hit him directly in both of his palms. That was a catchable ball. No different than Robinsons. Also hit him right in the hands. Cousins is being paid to throw the ball and throw it will accuracy but arent WRs paid to catch the ball? Right? Because not every pass from their QB is going to be in the perfect spot.

And Diggs and Thielen bailing out Cousins huh? lol. Nobody was bailed out more by those WRs than Case fricken Keenum last year. Thielen has made a few circus catches this year. Not a ton but a few. As for Diggs, made a clutch catch that was behind him in the final minutes of the GB game....outside of that, not really many circus catches. Thielen had at least 1-2 circus catches a game last year. Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen literally dug Keenum out of the hole he put them in during the playoff game vs the saints and COMPLETELY bailed him out.

The only QB in the NFL this year that has been more accurate than Kirk Cousins is Drew Brees. Cousins holds a 71.3. That's accuracy at its finest and most of it has came with Diggs or Thielen making very little "circus catches". And the thing with that is, Kirk Cousins has done it pretty much his whole career. Floating around 70% completion percentage. Outside of last year where he had arguably the worst receiving core in the NFL. Case Keenum, holds a whopping 62.3 completion percentage. That ranks around 27th in the NFL this year. And he has pretty good WRs. So I dont want to hear the "Thielen and Diggs are bailing him out" run around. That statement was going to be at the top of the list for some fans to throw out there anytime this team faltered.

Those guys have not bailed him out whatsoever. If anything, he's making them look that much better. Adam Thielen has been breaking records for gods sake. And not because he's laying out for balls and making one handed catches.
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