Kirk Cousins is having an MVP season

[dead_poet]

Teddy showed that....he's a great guy, a leader and is (was) mobile. He also showed that he has a noodle arm, doesnt go through his progressions, ALSO held the ball too long, hardly ever looked off safeties like Cousins does, had middle of the road accuracy (especially on deeper throws), etc.

And there isnt a ton to fall in love with from a pure QB standpoint.

I take issue with many of these talking points.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Teddy showed that....he's a great guy, a leader and is (was) mobile. He also showed that he has a noodle arm, doesnt go through his progressions, ALSO held the ball too long, hardly ever looked off safeties like Cousins does, had middle of the road accuracy (especially on deeper throws), etc.

And there isnt a ton to fall in love with from a pure QB standpoint.

I take issue with many of these talking points.

Go right ahead.

His arm was below average.

There was CONSTANT talk on here when he was our starter about him failing to go through progressions.

I remember Denver and Arizona were two games we had a shot to win on a final drive and he ended up getting strip sacked and we lost the game. Both were due to him holding the ball too long and double clutching his throw.

I honestly couldnt tell you a time where I remember him looking off a safety like Cousins has and firing it the other way for a long completion. I mean I didnt like Mike Wallace but he said it....

“When this process started, I knew that I wasn’t going back to Minnesota,’’ Wallace said. “I was like, ‘I need a good quarterback. I need a quarterback who I know that is proven and can get things done.’

He was 20th in the NFL in 2015 for YPA. He was 13th in completion percentage (where my middle of the road accuracy comment comes from as well). Side note: Cousins was #1 in comp % that year.

He was 26th in the NFL in TD passes with 14. Averaging under a TD per game. And dont bother with "it wasnt a pass heavy offense". He ranked 19th in pass attempts on the year. Just to put this in perspective, Big Ben had 22 more pass attempts than Teddy did that year. Ben also threw for 7 more TDs and 707 more yards....yeah. To compare him to someone even more reasonable that year, Andy Dalton. Dalton has been the epitome of an average QB since being in this league. Puts up decent numbers, makes the playoffs here and there, never wins a playoff game, has some really bad years, etc. In 2015, Dalton threw 61 LESS passes than Teddy, 11 MORE touchdowns and had a YPA of 8.4. Teddy doesnt even compare to the Andy Daltons of the NFL.

This is my whole point. I remember a few guys agreed with me on here a year or so ago when I said this, I dont understand why Teddy Bridgewater gets more support from Vikings fans than Brett Favre ever did and has done next to nothing for this franchise. I get it, he was a great guy, great story, awful injury but my goodness what has the guy EVER done that has showed he could be a legit franchise QB. There arent many fan bases in the NFL that are harder on QBs than we are as Vikings fans. But this guy gets more support than Fran fricken Tarkenton I feel. He's done NOTHING! He was FAR from lighting the world on fire before the injury. He hasnt played in 3 years. Why in any way, shape or form, is this guy a better option for this team than Kirk Cousins??!! It just blows my mind. I love the guy dont get me wrong but I'm also not blinded by feel-good stories and "what if's" either. He was a game managing, mediocre at best quarterback through and through. Had some good traits but when it came to a pure passer, he was mediocre, and that's a bit of a stretch. Enough defending this guy. He's gone, he's a backup and probably will be for most of his career. We have a much better QB now regardless of price tag. I take Cousins any day of the week until I drop dead.

[S197]

There's so many variables at this level. In a vacuum Cousins is head and shoulders above everyone else. It's when you factor in $84M fully guaranteed that things get murky.

Teddy while showing promise isn't someone I think the franchise could rely on simply due to his knee. The gravity of the situation is the guy almost had his leg amputated from a non-contact injury. That's a TON of risk for a team in their contention window.

Keenum had a fairy tale year and he brought amazing energy to the team. But I think we saw his ceiling, which was high enough to get this team close but not quite all the way.

I don't think Bradford was ever worth the money simply because of the same concerns with Teddy. If you could take Sam's arm, Case's legs, and Teddy's heart, you'd have yourself a hell of a QB. And the closest guy available to that Frankenstein type of QB is Cousins.

This is why I was okay with Spielman going all in on Cousins. And make no mistake, this was an all in move with huge risks. We're seeing most of the upside right now but I think starting next year the downsides will start setting in when the team has to make tough decisions on who sticks around and who needs to be let go. Coming into the season, I thought Alex Smith was the best value but he ended up being traded. At that point, I was all for getting Cousins with the caveat that if he doesn't pan out, Spielman will likely be out of a job in a year or two.

[Pondering Her Percy]

There's so many variables at this level. In a vacuum Cousins is head and shoulders above everyone else. It's when you factor in $84M fully guaranteed that things get murky.

Teddy while showing promise isn't someone I think the franchise could rely on simply due to his knee. The gravity of the situation is the guy almost had his leg amputated from a non-contact injury. That's a TON of risk for a team in their contention window.

Keenum had a fairy tale year and he brought amazing energy to the team. But I think we saw his ceiling, which was high enough to get this team close but not quite all the way.

I don't think Bradford was ever worth the money simply because of the same concerns with Teddy. If you could take Sam's arm, Case's legs, and Teddy's heart, you'd have yourself a hell of a QB. And the closest guy available to that Frankenstein type of QB is Cousins.

This is why I was okay with Spielman going all in on Cousins. And make no mistake, this was an all in move with huge risks. We're seeing most of the upside right now but I think starting next year the downsides will start setting in when the team has to make tough decisions on who sticks around and who needs to be let go. Coming into the season, I thought Alex Smith was the best value but he ended up being traded. At that point, I was all for getting Cousins with the caveat that if he doesn't pan out, Spielman will likely be out of a job in a year or two.

Agreed. I think the main question with Teddy was yeah, his knee but you mention the franchise couldnt rely on him SIMPLY due to his knee. Is it that simple? That's the only reason we couldnt rely on him? That is the part I dont believe. He didnt show me enough promise to give him another shot, regardless of the knee. This is a SB caliber roster. We have never won one. There is no more effin around. We need to get the best players we can out on this field to win a SB. We have our key players locked up for 3 more years and beyond. That is what Philly just did. You thought we were in cap hell? Philly was under $100,000 the past few years. Sometimes near the negative. But they got it done.

I'd rather not approach it like "hey we have a SB caliber roster, but lets mob-job the most important position on the field just so we can save some money". You dont screw around with a SB caliber roster. Especially with the QB position. You can hide a mediocre to below average LB, OG, etc. These windows dont come very often. Jacksonville just screwed their window up. Look at them now, 3-6 and frustrated players. That could have been us with Teddy at the helm. And then what? Back to square one trying to find a QB in the draft? Waiting around to see if they pan out. The window is long gone by that point. Yeah $84 million guaranteed is a lot. But the consistency of Cousins on a very weak team, speaks enough for itself. You cant say Cousins was a "sure thing" but he was pretty darn close given what we would supply him with. It was near impossible for this team to go below .500 with Cousins at the helm. He was going .500 with the ~28th ranked defense and average offensive players at best in Washington.

Again, I make this move any day of the week. The only way Cousins comes here is if we gave him what we did. It's not like we ran to him slapping $84 million guaranteed on the table. I'm sure we did what we could do save money in certain areas but if you want the best out there, you have to pay for the best.

[YikesVikes]

Teddy's arm wasn't below average. It was the definition of average. Also, no one has every said Teddy didn't go through his progressions well. If they did, ignore them. The kid was exceptional at reading the field. Teddy's biggest issue was velocity. He made up for this by throwing earlier than most and having a compact delivery.

Lets also forget the kid was like 21 when he came here. He had plenty of time to develop his arm. He has since done so since he has filled out.

[YikesVikes]

I wish people would stop complaining about the 84 million. It's the going rate for a QB. I am most upset about the length. 3 years puts him back on the market at an even higher rate in 3 years. We got a QB in his prime that has been exceptional. The alternatives were awful choices for a team on the cusp of a superbowl. We should be thanking the football gods we got him for 28.

[S197]

There's so many variables at this level. In a vacuum Cousins is head and shoulders above everyone else. It's when you factor in $84M fully guaranteed that things get murky.

Teddy while showing promise isn't someone I think the franchise could rely on simply due to his knee. The gravity of the situation is the guy almost had his leg amputated from a non-contact injury. That's a TON of risk for a team in their contention window.

Keenum had a fairy tale year and he brought amazing energy to the team. But I think we saw his ceiling, which was high enough to get this team close but not quite all the way.

I don't think Bradford was ever worth the money simply because of the same concerns with Teddy. If you could take Sam's arm, Case's legs, and Teddy's heart, you'd have yourself a hell of a QB. And the closest guy available to that Frankenstein type of QB is Cousins.

This is why I was okay with Spielman going all in on Cousins. And make no mistake, this was an all in move with huge risks. We're seeing most of the upside right now but I think starting next year the downsides will start setting in when the team has to make tough decisions on who sticks around and who needs to be let go. Coming into the season, I thought Alex Smith was the best value but he ended up being traded. At that point, I was all for getting Cousins with the caveat that if he doesn't pan out, Spielman will likely be out of a job in a year or two.

Agreed. I think the main question with Teddy was yeah, his knee but you mention the franchise couldnt rely on him SIMPLY due to his knee. Is it that simple? That's the only reason we couldnt rely on him? That is the part I dont believe. He didnt show me enough promise to give him another shot, regardless of the knee. This is a SB caliber roster. We have never won one. There is no more effin around. We need to get the best players we can out on this field to win a SB. We have our key players locked up for 3 more years and beyond. That is what Philly just did. You thought we were in cap hell? Philly was under $100,000 the past few years. Sometimes near the negative. But they got it done.

I'd rather not approach it like "hey we have a SB caliber roster, but lets mob-job the most important position on the field just so we can save some money". You dont screw around with a SB caliber roster. Especially with the QB position. You can hide a mediocre to below average LB, OG, etc. These windows dont come very often. Jacksonville just screwed their window up. Look at them now, 3-6 and frustrated players. That could have been us with Teddy at the helm. And then what? Back to square one trying to find a QB in the draft? Waiting around to see if they pan out. The window is long gone by that point. Yeah $84 million guaranteed is a lot. But the consistency of Cousins on a very weak team, speaks enough for itself. You cant say Cousins was a "sure thing" but he was pretty darn close given what we would supply him with. It was near impossible for this team to go below .500 with Cousins at the helm. He was going .500 with the ~28th ranked defense and average offensive players at best in Washington.

Again, I make this move any day of the week. The only way Cousins comes here is if we gave him what we did. It's not like we ran to him slapping $84 million guaranteed on the table. I'm sure we did what we could do save money in certain areas but if you want the best out there, you have to pay for the best.

It may not be the only reason, I'm just saying even for people who believe Teddy was a good/great QB, there's a lot of consideration that needs to be placed in not just the injury but the way he was injured. It could very well be another Greg Childs type of situation for all we know and that alone is enough to give pause.

[S197]

I wish people would stop complaining about the 84 million. It's the going rate for a QB. I am most upset about the length. 3 years puts him back on the market at an even higher rate in 3 years. We got a QB in his prime that has been exceptional. The alternatives were awful choices for a team on the cusp of a superbowl. We should be thanking the football gods we got him for 28.

That's all he would sign. It allows him to double dip as was largely speculated before he signed.

[YikesVikes]

I wish people would stop complaining about the 84 million. It's the going rate for a QB. I am most upset about the length. 3 years puts him back on the market at an even higher rate in 3 years. We got a QB in his prime that has been exceptional. The alternatives were awful choices for a team on the cusp of a superbowl. We should be thanking the football gods we got him for 28.

That's all he would sign. It allows him to double dip as was largely speculated before he signed.

Oh, I am sure but it looks like the Vikings didn't do much to negotiate a better set-up. Its all for naught if we win a big one. However, I would love the deal if we got him for 5 years.

[StumpHunter]

That's all he would sign. It allows him to double dip as was largely speculated before he signed.

Oh, I am sure but it looks like the Vikings didn't do much to negotiate a better set-up. Its all for naught if we win a big one. However, I would love the deal if we got him for 5 years.

The deal would certainly be less painful if it was for 5. In 3 years, if he is playing well, I don't want to think about what it will cost to sign him. If he isn't playing well, I don't want to sign him. Bad spot for the Vikes, so hopefully he wins us the big one before then.

[StumpHunter]

Agreed. I think the main question with Teddy was yeah, his knee but you mention the franchise couldnt rely on him SIMPLY due to his knee. Is it that simple? That's the only reason we couldnt rely on him? That is the part I dont believe. He didnt show me enough promise to give him another shot, regardless of the knee. This is a SB caliber roster. We have never won one. There is no more effin around. We need to get the best players we can out on this field to win a SB. We have our key players locked up for 3 more years and beyond. That is what Philly just did. You thought we were in cap hell? Philly was under $100,000 the past few years. Sometimes near the negative. But they got it done.

Isn't that how we felt about the roster going into 2016? That it was a Super Bowl caliber team and that Teddy was a key part to that team? Then in 2018 they let him walk.

In between the only thing that changed was the knee injury. You can pretend like it is more than that to make you feel better about spending almost 4-5 times more on our current QB, but the reality is that Teddy lost his starting job to injury.

[Cliff]

Oh, I am sure but it looks like the Vikings didn't do much to negotiate a better set-up. Its all for naught if we win a big one. However, I would love the deal if we got him for 5 years.

The deal would certainly be less painful if it was for 5. In 3 years, if he is playing well, I don't want to think about what it will cost to sign him. If he isn't playing well, I don't want to sign him. Bad spot for the Vikes, so hopefully he wins us the big one before then.

I'd love to see them draft a QB in the first 3 rounds next year to actually groom and prepare for the possibility that he walks and worst case have a better backup.

[StumpHunter]

The deal would certainly be less painful if it was for 5. In 3 years, if he is playing well, I don't want to think about what it will cost to sign him. If he isn't playing well, I don't want to sign him. Bad spot for the Vikes, so hopefully he wins us the big one before then.

I'd love to see them draft a QB in the first 3 rounds next year to actually groom and prepare for the possibility that he walks and worst case have a better backup.

What, you don't think a guy who was a TE for much of his college career is the answer? Have you not seen how well Sloter has done against guys who are no longer in the league in pre-season?

Agree on drafting a QB early if the right one is there. Historically, that is how you get your franchise guy and the lack of draft capital used on QB's in this franchise is the reason we are constantly signing one and two year rentals. 3 1st round draft picks used on QBs in how many decades?

[Cliff]

What, you don't think a guy who was a TE for much of his college career is the answer? Have you not seen how well Sloter has done against guys who are no longer in the league in pre-season?

Agree on drafting a QB early if the right one is there. Historically, that is how you get your franchise guy and the lack of draft capital used on QB's in this franchise is the reason we are constantly signing one and two year rentals. 3 1st round draft picks used on QBs in how many decades?

Nothing against Sloter but lets just say ... he's not a sure thing

They haven't historically been good at investing and when they have they have had some bad luck or picks that didn't pan out. Not to mention that I do overall agree with what you say about a QB (or any single player, really) making too much money on a team. Having a young QB doing well on the cheap is great - if you can actually hit on one. It's just not something you can count on ... but you should definitely be at least trying. I don't think this front office has done that enough.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Agreed. I think the main question with Teddy was yeah, his knee but you mention the franchise couldnt rely on him SIMPLY due to his knee. Is it that simple? That's the only reason we couldnt rely on him? That is the part I dont believe. He didnt show me enough promise to give him another shot, regardless of the knee. This is a SB caliber roster. We have never won one. There is no more effin around. We need to get the best players we can out on this field to win a SB. We have our key players locked up for 3 more years and beyond. That is what Philly just did. You thought we were in cap hell? Philly was under $100,000 the past few years. Sometimes near the negative. But they got it done.

I'd rather not approach it like "hey we have a SB caliber roster, but lets mob-job the most important position on the field just so we can save some money". You dont screw around with a SB caliber roster. Especially with the QB position. You can hide a mediocre to below average LB, OG, etc. These windows dont come very often. Jacksonville just screwed their window up. Look at them now, 3-6 and frustrated players. That could have been us with Teddy at the helm. And then what? Back to square one trying to find a QB in the draft? Waiting around to see if they pan out. The window is long gone by that point. Yeah $84 million guaranteed is a lot. But the consistency of Cousins on a very weak team, speaks enough for itself. You cant say Cousins was a "sure thing" but he was pretty darn close given what we would supply him with. It was near impossible for this team to go below .500 with Cousins at the helm. He was going .500 with the ~28th ranked defense and average offensive players at best in Washington.

Again, I make this move any day of the week. The only way Cousins comes here is if we gave him what we did. It's not like we ran to him slapping $84 million guaranteed on the table. I'm sure we did what we could do save money in certain areas but if you want the best out there, you have to pay for the best.

It may not be the only reason, I'm just saying even for people who believe Teddy was a good/great QB, there's a lot of consideration that needs to be placed in not just the injury but the way he was injured. It could very well be another Greg Childs type of situation for all we know and that alone is enough to give pause.

Oh yeah I totally agree. The knee is a huge question mark. But I feel like his play even prior to the injury is just as big of a question mark. It boils down to, ok if the knee is healthy, do we truly believe this guy can be a franchise QB after seeing what he did in two seasons in Minnesota? I'd question that just as much as anything else. Again, dont get me wrong I really do like Teddy as a person and a leader but he never impressed me from a pure QB standpoint. I see him at best as a game manager. Similar to an Alex Smith a few years ago. Smith has gotten better since but I dont see Teddy even hitting that level.