Cardinals Postgame Thread

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YikesVikes
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:38 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:32 pm
Exactly. Thank you. This is what I keep trying to say. Hernandez makes these tackles no better. Sure, during draft day it looked good but Reiff has been a giant flop this year. Remmers is probably a better RT than RG but still is "meh" for a RT. And Hill is awful. We needed tackles!! Yeah guard was a need but OT takes priority over a guard any day. No less, they are much harder to find. RigWell ht now we have a pretty good one so far in O'Neill. He has given up 2 pressures in 4 games. And guys still complain about Spielman and not drafting Hernandez. I dont get it.
He's not meh for a RT. He was fantastic the first 8 games last season (I think 0 sacks). Your 2 pressures in 4 games is in very limited action. Not saying I don't think Oneil will play well but he has only 1 game under his belt. Everything else is spot relief.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:32 pm
Well guess what, even if we DID draft Hernandez, Riley Reiff still gives up 12 pressures in week 3 and we still get demolished by Buffalo. He also still gets smoked vs the Rams and costs us the game on a strip sack. And whether Reiff, Remmers or Hill were starting at LT vs Arizona, all 3 still get abused by Chandler Jones. And again, we'd all still be on here complaining that "Spielman should've drafted an OT" and that "he doesnt know how to pick lineman" and that "he neglects the line", and so on. Same song different dance. However, I feel like a lot of this could have been prevented. Some, maybe not all. If we gave O'Neill the starting nod off the bat. Or even have balls enough to make a switch or bench someone after they get embarrassed and nearly get Cousins killed. And sad thing is, O'Neill will probably go back to the bench when Reiff comes back....and it disgusts me. That's on Zim. Not Spielman. The kid should be starting. Period. Outside of probably Elflein, I would say he's our next best OL.
That's not how oline play works. Maybe with Hernandez, we can run the ball better and we don't fall behind in down an distance. Without him we were repeatedly facing 3rd and long because 1st down was a -2 yard run. Also, when your guards aren't liabilities, you can help on the edges with backs and TEs. When the whole line is shakey, you keep backs in to protect up the middle. We can't just say, X would still happen because. Also, no one is upset with those plays few plays you mentioned. It is the constant pressure that we have faced.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:32 pm
Side note: If you take PFF with a grain of salt or not, Brian O'Neill is now up to the #23 overall offensive tackle according to PFF. Rashod Hill is #66 and Reiff is #28 (dont ask me how?). O'Neill grade out with a 73.0 rating yesterday and only trailed Adam Thielen in yesterday's game. He has yet to give up a sack this year. But Brian O'Neill will continue to sit the bench this year :wallbang:
Him being on the bench is laughable at this point. It makes me wonder, who else is on our bench at OL that would be better than what we have? If it is this clear on Oneil, who else is this staff missing?
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:52 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:25 pm
But Hill and Oneil wouldn't be playing Tackle. It would be Remmers at RT where he was decent to average and damn near good the first 8 games last season. This isn't difficult to understand but people keep ignoring it to make a point.
Nobody is ignoring it. It's been the blindside where we are getting killed. That is what's being ignored. Riley Reiff is the starter there. And he gave up 12 pressures vs Buffalo (a HUGE reason we couldnt get anything going that game) and was the one that gave up the strip sack on our final drive at LA. We also got murdered last game by Chandler Jones. Who came off the LT's side all game. What does Will Hernandez have to do with that? Does he play left tackle? No. I dont care if Remmers was at RT or not. Our current starters when healthy are Reiff at LT (who has been terrible) and Hill at RT (who is terrible in general). Even if we put Remmers there, will he be better than Hill? I would hope. Is he going to make that much of a difference. Probably not. Also, who is to say, O'Neill isnt a better RT than Remmers regardless?

Bottom line is, Reiff has always been tabbed as a "good" LT. He's not right now. At all. Fans are forgetting that. We also have Hill, who is very bad. And Remmers.... is he really that good of a RT?? FYI, Remmers was the highest rated OL on our team last year by a LONG SHOT. Overall rating was 69.6, closest to him was Reiff at 48.6. And that was at right guard. I think the difference of Remmers at RG compared to Remmers at RT, isnt as big of a difference as many think. I think he is a slightly better RT too but I dont think there is a huge difference. He's the epitome of an average yet inconsistent offensive lineman.

What is being ignored is that tackle is the main problem right now. Remmers or not. And my point is, O'Neill very well could be that fix.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:58 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:38 pm
He's not meh for a RT. He was fantastic the first 8 games last season (I think 0 sacks). Your 2 pressures in 4 games is in very limited action. Not saying I don't think Oneil will play well but he has only 1 game under his belt. Everything else is spot relief.

It's not very limited action. Every game he has played in (4), he's played over half the offensive snaps. Thats not limited action.
Again, Hernandez doesnt prevent Reiff giving up 12 pressures and strip sacks. Period. He isnt the LT. And those games, it wasnt that our run game was "bad", it wasnt used. Something else Hernandez cant control


agreed
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:06 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:52 pm
Nobody is ignoring it. It's been the blindside where we are getting killed. That is what's being ignored. Riley Reiff is the starter there. And he gave up 12 pressures vs Buffalo (a HUGE reason we couldnt get anything going that game) and was the one that gave up the strip sack on our final drive at LA. We also got murdered last game by Chandler Jones. Who came off the LT's side all game. What does Will Hernandez have to do with that? Does he play left tackle? No. I dont care if Remmers was at RT or not. Our current starters when healthy are Reiff at LT (who has been terrible) and Hill at RT (who is terrible in general). Even if we put Remmers there, will he be better than Hill? I would hope. Is he going to make that much of a difference. Probably not. Also, who is to say, O'Neill isnt a better RT than Remmers regardless?
We also had Remmers give up 13 pressures at RG the game before. Pressure is coming from inside and outside. As I explained, good guard can be left on an island with no RB help. RBs can then be used to help outside. At this point I am no longer arguing for Oneil Vs. Hernandez. You have won that argument hands down when you add what Hughes has added. :bowdown: My point is that Hernandez would have helped this line.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:52 pm
Bottom line is, Reiff has always been tabbed as a "good" LT. He's not right now. At all. Fans are forgetting that. We also have Hill, who is very bad. And Remmers.... is he really that good of a RT?? FYI, Remmers was the highest rated OL on our team last year by a LONG SHOT. Overall rating was 69.6, closest to him was Reiff at 48.6. And that was at right guard. I think the difference of Remmers at RG compared to Remmers at RT, isnt as big of a difference as many think. I think he is a slightly better RT too but I dont think there is a huge difference. He's the epitome of an average yet inconsistent offensive lineman.

What is being ignored is that tackle is the main problem right now. Remmers or not. And my point is, O'Neill very well could be that fix.
Remmers at RT was significantly better. It's hard to remember but our offensive line played well the first 8 weeks or so.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by MrPurplenGold » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:25 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:25 pm
But Hill and Oneil wouldn't be playing Tackle. It would be Remmers at RT where he was decent to average and damn near good the first 8 games last season. This isn't difficult to understand but people keep ignoring it to make a point.
Compton was signed as a back up and was only thrust into action because of Easton's injury. The vikings began experimenting with remmers at guard during the end of last season and the playoffs due to injuries. Mike zimmer could have very well felt more comfortable leaving compton as a back up and letting remmer and Hernandez start at guard. He also seems to like Hill more than he should, which allows me to continue to believe that he would have preferred to start Hill at tackle and remmer at guard. So what we would have probably had if we drafted Hernandez in the first is Reiff Hernandez elflein remmers and hill with no O'Neil. Then what happens when reiff is hurt? You still have hill starting at one of the tackle spots without the talent of O'Neil waiting in the wings. Now next year may be completely different. If O'Neil can hold down the left side, we can potentially cut reiff, free up some cap room and move remmers back to RT and draft a guard. At the end of the day, tackles are more valuable than guards, and i would rather have O'Neill than Hernandez.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:11 pm

MrPurplenGold wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:25 pm
Compton was signed as a back up and was only thrust into action because of Easton's injury. The vikings began experimenting with remmers at guard during the end of last season and the playoffs due to injuries. Mike zimmer could have very well felt more comfortable leaving compton as a back up and letting remmer and Hernandez start at guard. He also seems to like Hill more than he should, which allows me to continue to believe that he would have preferred to start Hill at tackle and remmer at guard. So what we would have probably had if we drafted Hernandez in the first is Reiff Hernandez elflein remmers and hill with no O'Neil. Then what happens when reiff is hurt? You still have hill starting at one of the tackle spots without the talent of O'Neil waiting in the wings. Now next year may be completely different. If O'Neil can hold down the left side, we can potentially cut reiff, free up some cap room and move remmers back to RT and draft a guard. At the end of the day, tackles are more valuable than guards, and i would rather have O'Neill than Hernandez.
If we drafted a guard, I don't think we would have moved Remmer's to guard due to the lack of depth that you pointed out. At the end it is all for naught. We're asking which peice of poop smells the least.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by S197 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:08 pm

I think part of Reiff's setback is he is playing hurt. We know he was playing hurt against the Rams and he couldn't make it through the Eagles game. When healthy, he's pretty good, or if that's too much to swallow, decent. Injuries are purely hindsight driven and not a very fair way to judge composition of starters.

We know what Remmers can do at RT because we've seen it. So a pickup like Hernandez would upgrade 40% of the line as one pickup makes two positions better. We can't say anything for certain since we're playing hypotheticals but there's a fair amount of evidence that suggests it would be plausible.

I don't recall a single person calling for Reiff to be replaced this offseason. I don't recall much of an outcry about Remmers either. But people were banging the table for a guard and a lot of people specifically were calling for Hernandez. That's not hindsight, that's foresight. And it's that lack of foresight by Spielman & Co. that makes it frustrating. This was a known issue that wasn't addressed. It's clear Rick didn't anticipate the run on guards and thought one would slip to the Vikings in the 2nd. That gamble didn't pay off and now we're seeing the consequences.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:33 pm

S197 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:08 pm
I think part of Reiff's setback is he is playing hurt. We know he was playing hurt against the Rams and he couldn't make it through the Eagles game. When healthy, he's pretty good, or if that's too much to swallow, decent. Injuries are purely hindsight driven and not a very fair way to judge composition of starters.

We know what Remmers can do at RT because we've seen it. So a pickup like Hernandez would upgrade 40% of the line as one pickup makes two positions better. We can't say anything for certain since we're playing hypotheticals but there's a fair amount of evidence that suggests it would be plausible.

I don't recall a single person calling for Reiff to be replaced this offseason. I don't recall much of an outcry about Remmers either. But people were banging the table for a guard and a lot of people specifically were calling for Hernandez. That's not hindsight, that's foresight. And it's that lack of foresight by Spielman & Co. that makes it frustrating. This was a known issue that wasn't addressed. It's clear Rick didn't anticipate the run on guards and thought one would slip to the Vikings in the 2nd. That gamble didn't pay off and now we're seeing the consequences.
I used to think like that but my mindset is changing. The potential to have a lockdown OT in Oneil is intriguing to me.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:40 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:06 pm
We also had Remmers give up 13 pressures at RG the game before. Pressure is coming from inside and outside. As I explained, good guard can be left on an island with no RB help. RBs can then be used to help outside. At this point I am no longer arguing for Oneil Vs. Hernandez. You have won that argument hands down when you add what Hughes has added. :bowdown: My point is that Hernandez would have helped this line.



Remmers at RT was significantly better. It's hard to remember but our offensive line played well the first 8 weeks or so.
I get what you're saying. Nobody in the right mind could say Hernandez wouldnt help this OL. Obviously he would. My point is, I'm more worried about the tackle position right now and we have a good one that I dont believe we are utilizing correctly.
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