Cardinals Postgame Thread

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808vikingsfan
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:37 am

UKno1VIKING wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:26 am
It was well documented that Cousins had a terrible O-line at Washington.
I think that's false. Even with all the injuries the Redskins had on the OL, they still performed better than the Vikings OL in 2017. How many fumbles did Keenum have last year? Only one. And whats the excuse for the two years prior when the Redskins OL was ranked 7th and 11th in the league. He has 6 already this year, 13 in '17, 9 in '16, and 9 in 15. Yes, the OL is struggling now, so what? It's OK for Cousins to ignore that and not adjust? It's obvious. He doesn't have a good feel for pressure and doesn't take care of the ball.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by raddmann » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:33 am

UKno1VIKING wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:26 am
It was well documented that Cousins had a terrible O-line at Washington. You watch the fumble today, along with the majority he's had this season. It is all on the O-line. If you're getting hit on the blindside, while trying to throw the ball, chances are it's coming out.
That's why the position is so highly valued in the NFL (apart from at Minneapolis apparently).
Hill and Compton were pathetic yesterday. Yes Hill was going up against Chandler Jones, but the slow, dancing feet, rigid armed, deer in headlights move, is not going to work against any Defensive End. And Compton was being constantly shoved back, showing no push what so ever. Remmers was not much better either.
I'm looking forward to having a healthy Reiff back, as we will no doubt bench Hill then. That doesn't solve the fact that both our starting guards are way below par. This needs addressing imo, or Cousins while performing the heroics he's shown so far, is going to get hurt.
Apart from the O-line, i thought the Offense played quite well yesterday. Nice to see Flip trusting the run. The Tay-Train looked back to his quick explosive self during pre-season. So it amazed me that we abandoned the run so quickly so far this season. Hopefully we'll show a bit more balance. Give the Defense a bit of time between series to recover.
I'm not sold on the D until we see them perform against a decent Offense. Beating up Arizona, is nothing to be proud of. However, they do look like they're going in the right direction.
He was only sacked 26 times in 2015 and 23 times in 2016. He had a pro bowl LT then too. In both those seasons they were ranked 4th best in the league. It was 2017 when they had the bad O line due to injuries and were ranked 21rst and sacks increased to 41. By Vikings standards the last few years that is excellent. Rusel Wilson was sacked 86 times those two years and Tom Brady was sacked 53 times vs only 49 for Kirk. I dunno - I guess having the 4th best OL for sacks during 2 of his 3 seasons as a starter there is pretty terrible.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by mansquatch » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:24 am

Not much else to say here. Defense made a bad team look bad. A few issues, but they held them to 3 points until garbage time. I'll take that. Murray's performance was excellent.

OL continues to be an issue. I have to say that at this point I think they messed up the draft and undervalued their need at Guard. Part of that was expecting Easton to be playing at LG so I can give them a partial pass on that front, but it is obvious that the depth is a problem.

Cousin's Fumbles are really becoming a concern. The INT was rather atrocious also. That was a BAD throw. DeFelippo still not on the same page with Zimmer on the rushing attack. Things were better today, but it was against one of the basement dwellers of the NFL this season.

Team needs to get sharper.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Fat Stupid Loser » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:29 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:37 am
I think that's false. Even with all the injuries the Redskins had on the OL, they still performed better than the Vikings OL in 2017. How many fumbles did Keenum have last year?
Hard to imagine the Vikes O line was worse than Washington's last year. The Skins line was a sieve last year. They would have loved to have Compton last year. That's how bad they were.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by VikingLord » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:12 pm

Couple of comments on the game

- Nice to see some explosive running plays. Yes, Arizona sucks at run defense, but the Vikings managed to exploit that weakness and remained dedicated to running even when the Cardinals managed a few stops. Murray was very effective.

- I've seen some comments about Cousins and fumbles. Hard to blame the QB when the defensive end gets a rush like that and gets such a clean swipe at the ball from behind. Cousins does struggle with ball security, but he's at least looking to make plays and not being skittish and I'll take that over a guy who feels phantom pressures, pulls it down too early, and then takes off.

- Treadwell made a nice play on that short pass with his juke and run. Still waiting for the Vikes to give him that up-and-over chance in the endzone.

- Defense is starting to play more like the defense of last year. Better and more consistent pressure up front, linebackers making some plays, defensive backs showing some anticipation. Harrison Smith really blew it on that deep pass to the TE though. It's almost like he figured if he was on the guy the QB wouldn't even attempt the throw. He's in perfect position to make a play on the ball, but never saw it. I feel like for some safeties, that would be something that can be overlooked, but Smith is supposed to be one of the best safeties in the NFL. He should make that play. That was a gift-wrapped INT if he just turned his head around earlier.

- Special teams finally rounding into form. Decent punting, kickoffs, coverage, and, of course, field goals and extra points.

Cardinals are a bad team this year, but after what happened against the Bills I took nothing for granted in this game. I think the Vikings came prepared and with energy, and that made a big difference. This was a game the Vikings statistically dominated, allowed no 3rd down conversions, and generally controlled from start to finish. With some tough games coming up, this is one the Vikings had to win and they did.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by PacificNorseWest » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:39 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:03 am
The defense only gave up 3 points up until garbage time. How is that bad?
Defense isn't the only component to a team...

-- Kirk can't hold onto the ball
-- Offensive line can either pass block or run block, but not both on the same day
-- 5+ batted balls
-- Another blown assignment on defense leading to a wide open receiver

Not a Championship level right now.

One bright spot I did notice was Wile...I'm glad he showed up and was consistent. And of course, Thielen. Hunter too.

I don't know..I was just annoyed the entire game. Pessimism crept in and didn't leave.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:20 pm

PacificNorseWest wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:39 pm
Defense isn't the only component to a team...

-- Kirk can't hold onto the ball
-- Offensive line can either pass block or run block, but not both on the same day
-- 5+ batted balls
-- Another blown assignment on defense leading to a wide open receiver

Not a Championship level right now.

One bright spot I did notice was Wile...I'm glad he showed up and was consistent. And of course, Thielen. Hunter too.

I don't know..I was just annoyed the entire game. Pessimism crept in and didn't leave.
OK. I got you. Yeah, it's apparent this team won't go far playing like this. The good news is the playoffs are in December. They have time to figure things out and hopefully start peaking at the right time. But for now, any kind of win is a good win.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by S197 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:22 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:55 pm
I guess I don't understand the "botched draft" comment. If we take Hernandez and then a CB in the 2nd, what is the difference? Hernandez is playing well right now but so is O'Neill. And I'm much more worried about the tackle position than I am the interior right now. If we took Hernandez, and Reiff goes down like he did, who are our starting OT's right now?!! Hill and......??? We could put Remmers back there but I don't see much of a difference between:

Reiff and Remmers at OT and Hernandez, Elflein and ?? in the interior

and

Reiff and Oneill at OTs and Remmers, Elflein and ?? in the interior.

I'd rather have a young OT right now than a young OG. Our interior isn't great, but our tackles are worse right now outside of O'Neill. I also believe, it's much harder to find a good OT in the draft than it is an OG.

Bottom line is, I don't think taking Hernandez makes this OL that much better right now compared to taking O'Neill
I think Remmers is much better at RT as we saw last year. He's definitely struggling at RG. So there's your RT and Hernandez takes Remmers spot at guard or more likely, Compton. Reiff-Hernandez-Elflein-Jones-Remmers is a much more solid line (granted, on paper). Hill is your backup, which he still is so a moot point.

Also, there's an assumption of taking a CB in the 2nd that I don't think is necessary. This draft was pretty deep in the secondary so you could have still gone O'Neill. Pretty tough to argue you can't find guys later in the draft when you can pickup Holton Hill as an UDFA.

It's a botched draft because coming into the season we had one huge hole and that was at guard. Easton was a tough break but we knew Berger was gone. Despite knowing that, we waited until the 6th round to draft someone. You can't predict injuries but when you have a known need and pick of the litter at that position, it was crazy to pass. Especially when you invest $84M fully guaranteed in a QB. Like I said, spilt milk, but since you wanted me to elaborate...
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Bowhunting Viking » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:43 pm

I mentioned this during the game chat yesterday and a few others agreed, but with Cook having the hammy issues and continuing to be inactive every week, I just cannot understand why we are not seeing more of Boone. Yes Murray had a great game yesterday and i hope he continues to. But I was so impressed with Boone in the preseason, and look what he did yesterday when they did give him the ball. The kid just seems so talented and so hungry. The kid is fast, runs hard and seems like he could be a dangerous weapon as a receiver out of the backfield, yet he's on the bench for almost the entire game. I just don't get it.
I love Cooks game, but man he just can't stay healthy, and Boone reminds me of a little smaller version of Cook. Heck Roc has been used more than Boone and really hasn't done anything to be excited about, at least to me.
I know I'm just on the couch, or jumping up and down in the basement Viking/Bowhunting man cave, and not at every practice or meeting rooms... but from everything I have seen from Boone so far I say Come on Zim and Flip, give Murray a few spells, put the kid in and see what he can do for us. Until he proves me wrong, I see ALOT of potential being wasted. Just my opinion.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by MrPurplenGold » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:00 am

S197 wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:22 pm
I think Remmers is much better at RT as we saw last year. He's definitely struggling at RG. So there's your RT and Hernandez takes Remmers spot at guard or more likely, Compton. Reiff-Hernandez-Elflein-Jones-Remmers is a much more solid line (granted, on paper). Hill is your backup, which he still is so a moot point.

Also, there's an assumption of taking a CB in the 2nd that I don't think is necessary. This draft was pretty deep in the secondary so you could have still gone O'Neill. Pretty tough to argue you can't find guys later in the draft when you can pickup Holton Hill as an UDFA.

It's a botched draft because coming into the season we had one huge hole and that was at guard. Easton was a tough break but we knew Berger was gone. Despite knowing that, we waited until the 6th round to draft someone. You can't predict injuries but when you have a known need and pick of the litter at that position, it was crazy to pass. Especially when you invest $84M fully guaranteed in a QB. Like I said, spilt milk, but since you wanted me to elaborate...
ELI Manning has been sacked 20 times, kirk cousins has been sacked 18. The giants rank 25th in rushing, the vikings rank 26th. Hernandez, as good as he may end up being, would not have prevented hill or reiff from getting beat at the tackle positions. He very well may have made the vikings offensive line better, in particular in the run game, but overall i don't think he would have made the line substantially better.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by mansquatch » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:44 am

S197 wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:22 pm
I think Remmers is much better at RT as we saw last year. He's definitely struggling at RG. So there's your RT and Hernandez takes Remmers spot at guard or more likely, Compton. Reiff-Hernandez-Elflein-Jones-Remmers is a much more solid line (granted, on paper). Hill is your backup, which he still is so a moot point.

Also, there's an assumption of taking a CB in the 2nd that I don't think is necessary. This draft was pretty deep in the secondary so you could have still gone O'Neill. Pretty tough to argue you can't find guys later in the draft when you can pickup Holton Hill as an UDFA.

It's a botched draft because coming into the season we had one huge hole and that was at guard. Easton was a tough break but we knew Berger was gone. Despite knowing that, we waited until the 6th round to draft someone. You can't predict injuries but when you have a known need and pick of the litter at that position, it was crazy to pass. Especially when you invest $84M fully guaranteed in a QB. Like I said, spilt milk, but since you wanted me to elaborate...
PHP, SI is right on this one. Hughes will likely be a good player (now that he tore an ACL, probably...) but this team had an obvious need at G and instead they drafted at what might be the deepest position on the team. I'm a huge Spielman backer as is well known, but he blew it on this one.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Svt40 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:07 am

What I hate most about the Vikings right now, besides having to watch games streamed on my computer, is that once we get a lead, they take their foot off the gas on both offense and defense. There seems to be no killer instinct.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Texas Vike » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:33 pm

Svt40 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:07 am
What I hate most about the Vikings right now, besides having to watch games streamed on my computer, is that once we get a lead, they take their foot off the gas on both offense and defense. There seems to be no killer instinct.
Agreed. Zimm seems really conservative on this point. He seems to be the exact opposite of Doug Pederson. In fact, due to Pederson's style of going large, I think the Eagles defied the odds last year.


One other highlight from the game that I haven't seen mentioned: Anthony Harris' beautiful interception. I like Sendejo, but we aren't that much worse (if at all) without him out there.
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:32 pm

MrPurplenGold wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:00 am
ELI Manning has been sacked 20 times, kirk cousins has been sacked 18. The giants rank 25th in rushing, the vikings rank 26th. Hernandez, as good as he may end up being, would not have prevented hill or reiff from getting beat at the tackle positions. He very well may have made the vikings offensive line better, in particular in the run game, but overall i don't think he would have made the line substantially better.
Exactly. Thank you. This is what I keep trying to say. Hernandez makes these tackles no better. Sure, during draft day it looked good but Reiff has been a giant flop this year. Remmers is probably a better RT than RG but still is "meh" for a RT. And Hill is awful. We needed tackles!! Yeah guard was a need but OT takes priority over a guard any day. No less, they are much harder to find. RigWell ht now we have a pretty good one so far in O'Neill. He has given up 2 pressures in 4 games. And guys still complain about Spielman and not drafting Hernandez. I dont get it.

Well guess what, even if we DID draft Hernandez, Riley Reiff still gives up 12 pressures in week 3 and we still get demolished by Buffalo. He also still gets smoked vs the Rams and costs us the game on a strip sack. And whether Reiff, Remmers or Hill were starting at LT vs Arizona, all 3 still get abused by Chandler Jones. And again, we'd all still be on here complaining that "Spielman should've drafted an OT" and that "he doesnt know how to pick lineman" and that "he neglects the line", and so on. Same song different dance. However, I feel like a lot of this could have been prevented. Some, maybe not all. If we gave O'Neill the starting nod off the bat. Or even have balls enough to make a switch or bench someone after they get embarrassed and nearly get Cousins killed. And sad thing is, O'Neill will probably go back to the bench when Reiff comes back....and it disgusts me. That's on Zim. Not Spielman. The kid should be starting. Period. Outside of probably Elflein, I would say he's our next best OL.

Side note: If you take PFF with a grain of salt or not, Brian O'Neill is now up to the #23 overall offensive tackle according to PFF. Rashod Hill is #66 and Reiff is #28 (dont ask me how?). O'Neill grade out with a 73.0 rating yesterday and only trailed Adam Thielen in yesterday's game. He has yet to give up a sack this year. But Brian O'Neill will continue to sit the bench this year :wallbang:
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Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:25 pm

MrPurplenGold wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:00 am
ELI Manning has been sacked 20 times, kirk cousins has been sacked 18. The giants rank 25th in rushing, the vikings rank 26th. Hernandez, as good as he may end up being, would not have prevented hill or reiff from getting beat at the tackle positions. He very well may have made the vikings offensive line better, in particular in the run game, but overall i don't think he would have made the line substantially better.
But Hill and Oneil wouldn't be playing Tackle. It would be Remmers at RT where he was decent to average and damn near good the first 8 games last season. This isn't difficult to understand but people keep ignoring it to make a point.
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