Cardinals Postgame Thread

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7059
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:41 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:35 pm
Ok. I was thinking that because the ball went to his left that the hit came from ther right.
Sorry man. I was kind of snarky there.

Yeah, Hill got beat bad on that play. Really bad.

That being said, Kirk needs better ball security when he's about to get sacked. I feel like he's trying to the last second to make a play, and sometimes it's better to just hang on to the ball and take the sack.
0 x
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

User avatar
PurpleMustReign
Starting Wide Receiver
Posts: 18588
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Location: Crystal, MN

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by PurpleMustReign » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:01 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:41 pm
Sorry man. I was kind of snarky there.

Yeah, Hill got beat bad on that play. Really bad.

That being said, Kirk needs better ball security when he's about to get sacked. I feel like he's trying to the last second to make a play, and sometimes it's better to just hang on to the ball and take the sack.
Is Isadora on the team? I can't figure out why he isn't playing.
0 x
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2017 #BringitHome‬

User avatar
Maelstrom88
Franchise Player
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:38 am

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Maelstrom88 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:07 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:23 pm
If there is any position that this team can afford to lose a player, it's DB. It sucks but I'd be really upset if they traded for a defensive player at this point.
Yeah I was just thinking Rhodes hasn't been himself, Wayne's has struggled, and so has McKenzie. It seems like they're finally getting it together but how sick with the defense be with Peterson? Granted they don't have the cap space short or long term.
0 x
Offseason Goal: Draft durable, tough, intelligent offensive lineman who are dependable technicians and avoid penalties aka drive killers.

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:54 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:02 pm
I don't think his fumble today was from his blind side
Well it was. He stepped up into the pocket and got hit from behind because Hill was smoked....again
0 x
Image

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:57 pm

MrPurplenGold wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:21 pm
I think this is more of an excuse than an explanation. Cousins has been at the top of the league in fumbles way before he came to the Vikings. Trying to tie an issue to the Vikings Oline that he has historically had to deal with is an excuse. Not only that, there are QBs sacked at a higher rate than cousins that don't fumble nearly as much. He either doesn't have a good pocket awareness or he is just careless with the football. There are plenty of QBs that get hit on their blindside that don't fumble. Not only that, cousins should know better than anyone where the weaknesses of the OLine are and be able to adjust accordingly. We just need to accept this is an issue that Cousins has. No QB is perfect. The question will come though when his fumbles start to cost the Vikings games.
I didn’t mention anything regarding his time in Washington but go watch the strip fumble today. He stepped up into the pocket but hill got smoked and his arm was fricken karate chopped. 99% of QB fumble that ball because he ended up coming from directly behind cousins where he had a clear view at the ball. It’s far from an excuse. Watch the play
1 x
Image

User avatar
raddmann
Backup
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:17 pm
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by raddmann » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:46 pm

MrPurplenGold wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:21 pm
I think this is more of an excuse than an explanation. Cousins has been at the top of the league in fumbles way before he came to the Vikings. Trying to tie an issue to the Vikings Oline that he has historically had to deal with is an excuse. Not only that, there are QBs sacked at a higher rate than cousins that don't fumble nearly as much. He either doesn't have a good pocket awareness or he is just careless with the football. There are plenty of QBs that get hit on their blindside that don't fumble. Not only that, cousins should know better than anyone where the weaknesses of the OLine are and be able to adjust accordingly. We just need to accept this is an issue that Cousins has. No QB is perfect. The question will come though when his fumbles start to cost the Vikings games.
Agree with your post. Here is some research I just did comparing Russel Wilson and Cousins from 2015 thru today. I chose Wilson because over that span he has been sacked about 50% more than Cousins. I think it is reasonable to assume that Wilson has been sacked on his blindside at least as many times as Cousins and most likely quite a bit more during this span.

Since the beginning of the 2015 season when Cousins became a full time starter :

Wilson 160 sacks 36 fumbles Fumbles % rate per sack 22.5%

Cousins 108 37 34.3%

Wilson was sacked nearly 50% more but had one less fumble. Cousins fumble % ratio is over 50% higher than Wilsons.
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:03 pm

raddmann wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:46 pm
Agree with your post. Here is some research I just did comparing Russel Wilson and Cousins from 2015 thru today. I chose Wilson because over that span he has been sacked about 50% more than Cousins. I think it is reasonable to assume that Wilson has been sacked on his blindside at least as many times as Cousins and most likely quite a bit more during this span.

Since the beginning of the 2015 season when Cousins became a full time starter :

Wilson 160 sacks 36 fumbles Fumbles % rate per sack 22.5%

Cousins 108 37 34.3%

Wilson was sacked nearly 50% more but had one less fumble. Cousins fumble % ratio is over 50% higher than Wilsons.
Nobody is saying he hasn’t fumbled a lot in the past. But nobody can sit here and say the OL is doing their job either. He’s on track to get pressured more than any other QB EVER. I can tell you that if the OL doesn’t play better or we don’t adjust what we have, he’s going to continue to fumble. Especially when it’s coming from his blindside. Out of the two fumbles vs buffalo, one vs the rams and one today, I’m going to say the only one that was truly his fault was when he started to run vs buffalo and he should’ve had it tucked. Outside of that, the rest were mid throw. He’s trying to get the ball out and getting tomahawked from the blindside.
0 x
Image

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:14 pm

A couple other takes from this game:

I’ve said it time and time again, many want to complain about Trae Waynes but you can tell when he’s playing and when he was out of the game. He played great all game.

Also, Barr and Alexander have both been playing below average but both stepped up today. Barr has played well the last two games. Alexander was all over the field today

Iloka also played very well filling in for sendejo. Our safety depth is beyond good.

I’m continuing to be more and more impressed with Weatherly.

Overall, guys are stepping up. And I love seeing that. Zim has these guys tuned in right now and our D is getting back to their ways as of late.


As for cousins, this guy is everything we’ve wanted in a QB. He’s been legit. One of the best in the league if you ask me. I don’t care what anyone says. Fumbles or not, he’s the heart and soul of this offense right now

And for those that complain about Murray, outside of tevin Coleman, I’ll say again he’s the 2nd best backup workhorse RB in the nfl. I don’t want to hear the tackling breaking this. Cardinals or not, he’s a good RB. This team is starting to turn it around and I’m loving it
1 x
Image

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 11459
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by S197 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:40 pm

Barr did have a very good game, forgot to mention him.

Other than the OL where there are no easy solutions due to a botched draft, the other question is what do we do at DE. We only kept 4 and only 2 are healthy. As good as Hunter is, we need a rotation. We could pickup someone if Hughes is indeed done. Holmes doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

Hopeful Everson can come back for the 2nd half but at some point this team may need to move on if it's looking like that's not happening.
0 x

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:45 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:29 pm
Actually, it was. Chandler Jones beat Rashod Hill like a drum on that play.

Go back and watch the highlights. Jones ran right around Hill like he was standing still (well, he pretty much WAS standing still) and forced Cousins to climb the pocket. But Jones caught Cousins and wrapped one arm around him, then swatted the ball out with the other.

That play was all on Rashod Hill.
Agreed 100%
0 x
Image

User avatar
Pondering Her Percy
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Location: Watertown, NY

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:55 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:40 pm
Barr did have a very good game, forgot to mention him.

Other than the OL where there are no easy solutions due to a botched draft, the other question is what do we do at DE. We only kept 4 and only 2 are healthy. As good as Hunter is, we need a rotation. We could pickup someone if Hughes is indeed done. Holmes doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

Hopeful Everson can come back for the 2nd half but at some point this team may need to move on if it's looking like that's not happening.
I guess I don't understand the "botched draft" comment. If we take Hernandez and then a CB in the 2nd, what is the difference? Hernandez is playing well right now but so is O'Neill. And I'm much more worried about the tackle position than I am the interior right now. If we took Hernandez, and Reiff goes down like he did, who are our starting OT's right now?!! Hill and......??? We could put Remmers back there but I don't see much of a difference between:

Reiff and Remmers at OT and Hernandez, Elflein and ?? in the interior

and

Reiff and Oneill at OTs and Remmers, Elflein and ?? in the interior.

I'd rather have a young OT right now than a young OG. Our interior isn't great, but our tackles are worse right now outside of O'Neill. I also believe, it's much harder to find a good OT in the draft than it is an OG.

Bottom line is, I don't think taking Hernandez makes this OL that much better right now compared to taking O'Neill
0 x
Image

User avatar
PacificNorseWest
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2574
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:10 am
Location: Seattle, Wa

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by PacificNorseWest » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:04 pm

This game annoyed me. This team is nowhere near where they need to be.
0 x

User avatar
808vikingsfan
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3502
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:45 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:03 am

PacificNorseWest wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:04 pm
This game annoyed me. This team is nowhere near where they need to be.
The defense only gave up 3 points up until garbage time. How is that bad?
0 x
Joined: Aug 2006
Deleted: Sept 12 2014
Reborn: Sept 17 2014

User avatar
UKno1VIKING
Transition Player
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:36 pm
Location: Bradford, UK

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by UKno1VIKING » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:26 am

raddmann wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:31 pm
Some would disappear but is he the only qb in the NFL that faces a stiff pass rush ? Keenum got rushed really hard last year too but only had one fumble. Besides last season, Cousins had pretty good OL's in Washington and still was a huge fumbler. It's him not the OL. The funbles this year are not an aberation. Over the last 3 plus seasons nobody has fumbled more than Cousins.
It was well documented that Cousins had a terrible O-line at Washington. You watch the fumble today, along with the majority he's had this season. It is all on the O-line. If you're getting hit on the blindside, while trying to throw the ball, chances are it's coming out.
That's why the position is so highly valued in the NFL (apart from at Minneapolis apparently).
Hill and Compton were pathetic yesterday. Yes Hill was going up against Chandler Jones, but the slow, dancing feet, rigid armed, deer in headlights move, is not going to work against any Defensive End. And Compton was being constantly shoved back, showing no push what so ever. Remmers was not much better either.
I'm looking forward to having a healthy Reiff back, as we will no doubt bench Hill then. That doesn't solve the fact that both our starting guards are way below par. This needs addressing imo, or Cousins while performing the heroics he's shown so far, is going to get hurt.
Apart from the O-line, i thought the Offense played quite well yesterday. Nice to see Flip trusting the run. The Tay-Train looked back to his quick explosive self during pre-season. So it amazed me that we abandoned the run so quickly so far this season. Hopefully we'll show a bit more balance. Give the Defense a bit of time between series to recover.
I'm not sold on the D until we see them perform against a decent Offense. Beating up Arizona, is nothing to be proud of. However, they do look like they're going in the right direction.
1 x

YikesVikes
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am

Re: Cardinals Postgame Thread

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:08 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:55 pm
I guess I don't understand the "botched draft" comment. If we take Hernandez and then a CB in the 2nd, what is the difference? Hernandez is playing well right now but so is O'Neill. And I'm much more worried about the tackle position than I am the interior right now. If we took Hernandez, and Reiff goes down like he did, who are our starting OT's right now?!! Hill and......??? We could put Remmers back there but I don't see much of a difference between:

Reiff and Remmers at OT and Hernandez, Elflein and ?? in the interior

and

Reiff and Oneill at OTs and Remmers, Elflein and ?? in the interior.

I'd rather have a young OT right now than a young OG. Our interior isn't great, but our tackles are worse right now outside of O'Neill. I also believe, it's much harder to find a good OT in the draft than it is an OG.

Bottom line is, I don't think taking Hernandez makes this OL that much better right now compared to taking O'Neill
I think you're close and you made some good points but
1. The staff isn't really using Oneil so him being good is pointless.

2. I think the combo of Reiff, Hernandez, Elf, Compton and Remmers is better than Reiff, Compton, Elf, Remmers, Oniel. In option two you have two liabilities. Option 1, you have 1 that could be hidden.

3. You're correct that a possible LT is more valuable but the staff may not see that.

4. The difference between Hughes and the Corner in the 2nd round might make up the difference in value of the two drafts picks.
0 x