Cousins at his best under pressure

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J. Kapp 11
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Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:37 pm

When the Vikings were thinking about signing Kirk Cousins, all I heard from Redskins fans was how had he was under pressure.

Isn't it interesting what can happen when a talented quarterback is surrounded with competent players? Here's an excerpt from an article today on ESPN.com entitled "Kirk Cousins at his best when pressured."
ESPN.com wrote:Cousins’ 64.7 completion percentage and 8.1 yards per attempt under pressure rank second and fifth, respectively. His 51 passing attempts when pressured are the most of any QB without an interception in that situation this season, and he has three touchdowns in those situations.
Full article at the link.

Another criticism was that he folded when blitzed. This year, Cousins also has a 110.9 passer rating when blitzed, which is seventh-best in the NFL.

Now wouldn't it be great if he didn't HAVE to throw under pressure so much?

It would also be great if the Vikings could run the ball. Cousins leads the NFL with an 81.6% completion rate on play-action passes, even though he's been pressured on almost 40% of those plays.

If only we could fix this O-line. There would be no stopping this offense.
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Re: Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by Demarates » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:43 pm

The weird thing is, some people just perform better under pressure. :confused:
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Re: Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by S197 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:55 pm

I feel like this is the same thing we were saying about AD in his prime. How he was crazy good with yards after contact and how amazing it would be if he didn't have to go against 9 in the box every down. Hopefully Cousins gets the relief Peterson should have had.
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Re: Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by 808vikingsfan » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:14 pm

I think there's a difference between performing when pressured vs performing in pressure situations. I believe his reputation in WAS was more bonehead decisions when in pressure situations, eg. INT in the redzone or on crucial 3rd down situations. He's been throwing unbelievable when defenders are in his face. Just hope bad Cousins doesn't show himself when the Vikings need him the most.
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Re: Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:07 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:14 pm
I think there's a difference between performing when pressured vs performing in pressure situations. I believe his reputation in WAS was more bonehead decisions when in pressure situations, eg. INT in the redzone or on crucial 3rd down situations. He's been throwing unbelievable when defenders are in his face. Just hope bad Cousins doesn't show himself when the Vikings need him the most.
Well, here's what I think, for what it's worth.

The 22 points he and the Vikings put up in the fourth quarter in Lambeau, as well as another drive in overtime that should have resulted in a game-winning field goal, speaks pretty well to Cousins' ability in pressure situations.

And the 12 game-winning drives and 8 fourth-quarter comebacks he's achieved in his career would seem to contradict the narrative of a complete inability to come through when the chips are down. Such a narrative, of course, is what the RG3 sycophants in Washington would have us believe.

Washington got what they wanted -- to get rid of Kirk Cousins, They ended up with Alex Smith, while we got Cousins. As far as I'm concerned, they grabbed the short end of that stick.
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Re: Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by 808vikingsfan » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:08 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:07 pm
Well, here's what I think, for what it's worth.

The 22 points he and the Vikings put up in the fourth quarter in Lambeau, as well as another drive in overtime that should have resulted in a game-winning field goal, speaks pretty well to Cousins' ability in pressure situations.

And the 12 game-winning drives and 8 fourth-quarter comebacks he's achieved in his career would seem to contradict the narrative of a complete inability to come through when the chips are down. Such a narrative, of course, is what the RG3 sycophants in Washington would have us believe.

Washington got what they wanted -- to get rid of Kirk Cousins, They ended up with Alex Smith, while we got Cousins. As far as I'm concerned, they grabbed the short end of that stick.
To play devils, Vikings were held to 1 TD thru 3 quarters vs GB. You could attribute the ease of the passing attack in the 4th with the way GB played D. Buffalo ,same thing, scoreless thru 3 quarters, only 6 points scored and in the 4th. Vs Eagles, just 1 TD. Several of the attempted FGs for the Vikings in that game were because they/he didn't execute on 3rd down. Come from behind wins mean that you were behind. And with WL records of 1-4, 9-7, 8-7-1, and 7-9, maybe the Redskins fans were complaining more about the losses than the come from behind wins and having to rely on a scoring drive at the end of the game to win.

Don't get me wrong, he was the best option available and I think he's going to put up stats better than any Vikings QB since Favre. He does throw a pretty ball. But I think it's still too early to say that he's worth eighty four million dollars.
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Re: Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:12 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:07 pm
Well, here's what I think, for what it's worth.

The 22 points he and the Vikings put up in the fourth quarter in Lambeau, as well as another drive in overtime that should have resulted in a game-winning field goal, speaks pretty well to Cousins' ability in pressure situations.

And the 12 game-winning drives and 8 fourth-quarter comebacks he's achieved in his career would seem to contradict the narrative of a complete inability to come through when the chips are down. Such a narrative, of course, is what the RG3 sycophants in Washington would have us believe.

Washington got what they wanted -- to get rid of Kirk Cousins, They ended up with Alex Smith, while we got Cousins. As far as I'm concerned, they grabbed the short end of that stick.
Beating bad teams after getting down early is not handling pressure well. I say bad teams, because I believe Cousins only has 4 wins against teams with a winning record and like 1 against a playoff team?

That maybe 5 now, with the win against the Eagles (will have to wait until the end of the season for that one), but I have not been impressed with how he has closed out games outside of in GB, and even in that one he needed a bad roughing the passer call to tie it up.
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Re: Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by Maelstrom88 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:59 am

That's good because he is under pressure a lot. I have seen him float some passes after being hit but who can blame him. The coaches have to scheme better protection even of it means keeping 7 or 8 in to at least chip. The front office needs to make protecting Kirk the number one priority next off-season as well.
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Re: Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:17 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:12 am
Beating bad teams after getting down early is not handling pressure well. I say bad teams, because I believe Cousins only has 4 wins against teams with a winning record and like 1 against a playoff team?

That maybe 5 now, with the win against the Eagles (will have to wait until the end of the season for that one), but I have not been impressed with how he has closed out games outside of in GB, and even in that one he needed a bad roughing the passer call to tie it up.
Whatever, man. You don't like him. You're entitled to your opinion. I do, and I'm entitled to mine.

I posted because I thought the article and the numbers were interesting. I still do. In my opinion, he's playing at a very high level, good enough for this team to be 4-2 or 5-1 (should have beat the Packers, and played well enough to beat the Rams). He's not perfect, but he's better than anybody we've had since Favre in '09, and Culpepper in '04 before that.
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Re: Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:10 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:17 pm
Whatever, man. You don't like him. You're entitled to your opinion. I do, and I'm entitled to mine.

I posted because I thought the article and the numbers were interesting. I still do. In my opinion, he's playing at a very high level, good enough for this team to be 4-2 or 5-1 (should have beat the Packers, and played well enough to beat the Rams). He's not perfect, but he's better than anybody we've had since Favre in '09, and Culpepper in '04 before that.
I do like Cousins, he is a good QB. I do not like his contract however. Cousins has proven so far that he is not a good enough QB to carry a team, but he is being paid like he is.

He starts winning close games where the defense might not be playing great, or the line is struggling, or the opposition is just a really good team and I will change my mind on him, but until he starts doing that, I don't know how we put a team together around him that is good enough to win it all with how much of the cap he takes up.
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Re: Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:31 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:10 pm
I do like Cousins, he is a good QB. I do not like his contract however. Cousins has proven so far that he is not a good enough QB to carry a team, but he is being paid like he is.

He starts winning close games where the defense might not be playing great, or the line is struggling, or the opposition is just a really good team and I will change my mind on him, but until he starts doing that, I don't know how we put a team together around him that is good enough to win it all with how much of the cap he takes up.
Not good enough to carry a team? Are you watching the same games as the rest of the world? The man absolutely carried us against both Green Bay and Los Angeles. The Green Bay game -- 22 points in the fourth quarter should have been enough to win, but our rookie kicker couldn't hit the ocean from the beach. And the Rams game … the way our defense played, we'd have gotten destroyed without Kirk Cousins. Instead, we were within one score with a chance to tie. Yes, he fumbled … never mind that Aaron Donald made a meal out of our O-line.

I can find very few who think Kirk Cousins isn't worth every penny he's getting. In fact, I could probably cite a dozen articles in the major media that say he is. And he's certainly a better value at $28 million than Case Keenum at $20 million or Sam Bradford at $18 million.
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Re: Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by mansquatch » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:37 pm

I'm still shocked people are even debating this. Cousins has been everything he was advertised to be and more.

Do I hate the fumbles, sure. But 22 points in Lambeau in the 4Q and someone is going to nitpick that he didn't win the game? The kicker lost that one. 3 times over.

You can put the Buffalo game on the offense and Cousin played his part in that. However, in EVERY OTHER GAME, he has been legit and a major contributor to success.
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Re: Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:52 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:31 pm
Not good enough to carry a team? Are you watching the same games as the rest of the world? The man absolutely carried us against both Green Bay and Los Angeles. The Green Bay game -- 22 points in the fourth quarter should have been enough to win, but our rookie kicker couldn't hit the ocean from the beach. And the Rams game … the way our defense played, we'd have gotten destroyed without Kirk Cousins. Instead, we were within one score with a chance to tie. Yes, he fumbled … never mind that Aaron Donald made a meal out of our O-line.

I can find very few who think Kirk Cousins isn't worth every penny he's getting. In fact, I could probably cite a dozen articles in the major media that say he is. And he's certainly a better value at $28 million than Case Keenum at $20 million or Sam Bradford at $18 million.
He is better than a guy benched after 3 games and a guy on the verge of getting benched. No doubt.

How did those two do throwing to these WRs last season btw? Seems like this is a pretty easy team to be a QB on.

The vikings were a 13-3 team before Cousins got here with a backup qb starting. It does not shock me that Cousins is putting up good passing stats, he is a much better QB than the one we had last year. What does shock me is that the offense got WORSE with him under center.

Paying 26 million more for a worse offense is not a good deal. Paying 26 million more for at best the same amount of wins as last year is not a good deal.

Now, if we win it all it is.
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Re: Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:28 pm

mansquatch wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:37 pm
I'm still shocked people are even debating this. Cousins has been everything he was advertised to be and more.

Do I hate the fumbles, sure. But 22 points in Lambeau in the 4Q and someone is going to nitpick that he didn't win the game? The kicker lost that one. 3 times over.

You can put the Buffalo game on the offense and Cousin played his part in that. However, in EVERY OTHER GAME, he has been legit and a major contributor to success.
I hear ya, man. I just don't get it.

Here's my armchair analysis on the fumbles.

First of all, the Roc Thomas fumble was credited to Cousins ... that was supposed to be a pass, and Thomas biffed it.

The other fumbles are, I believe, a product of his time in Washington. The guy was constantly looking over his shoulder, and constantly under pressure to make plays. I believe he developed a habit of not throwing the ball away when he had nothing.

I've watched every snap of his games with the Vikings multiple times, and I can't think of a single time Kirk Cousins has thrown the ball away. Not once. All of his strip-sack fumbles have come on third down with the exception of the Rams game, and that was definitely a situation that called for making a play. I just think his DNA is to always try to make a play, to never give up. We all remember Adrian Peterson fumbling in exactly the same situations, where he was trying to bust a play or thrash and work for every yard. That's Cousins. He's struggling to make plays ... sometimes when simply throwing the ball away or even taking the sack would be perfectly fine.

I think as this defense continues to get better, and as Kirk Cousins realizes that he doesn't have to make a play every single time, he'll fumble less.

Beyond the fumbles, Kirk Cousins has played out of his mind. And the idea that our receivers somehow make every quarterback look like an all-pro ... give me a break. Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph AND Treadwell are on pace for career years. There is simply no comparison between Cousins and any quarterback we've had since Favre in '09.
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Re: Cousins at his best under pressure

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:54 am

I guess I am in the minority who thinks Cousins contract cannot be justified by QB passing stats alone, and that a QB should be judged on how they impact the offenses ability to score, since scoring is all that matters. But since so many equate QB "success" with stats, let's look at how Cousins is doing compared to Keenum last year:

7.4 YPA, 4.6% TD percentage, 98.3 passer rating, 74.3 QBR, 4.4 sack %, 1.5% INT percentage and 3 game winning drives.

7.4 YPA, 4.6% TD percentage, 102.7 passer rating, 69.2 QBR, 6.5 sack %, 1.2% INT percentage and 0 game winning drives.

Now, Cousins is actually throwing a lot more than Case did, and IS being asked to do more, but Case was a backup and from a per pass standpoint, was nearly identical to Cousins. In an offense that scored more points.

Worth the 28 million guaranteed to put up similar per pass production as a backup?

Worth the 28 million to have a worse offense?

I guess I don't see it.

It could very well get to the point where he earns that contract, but he isn't there yet.
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