Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by VikingLord » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:56 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:45 pm
But it isn't credible. Prior to last game we were dead last in rushing. We still didn't have someone break 50 yards rushing in any game, Eagles, Bills, Packers etc. Holding on to we had 3.8 yards per rush in a game where we had 77 total is assinine. As I predicted, we would rush the ball well against the Cards because (1 we made changes on the oline and 2. They are horrible against the rush).
So what do you expect to happen going forward? Do you expect the rush offensive to continue to sputter, or do you see it continuing to improve?

I believe it will continue to improve for a few reasons.

And I still think 3.8 YPC on the road against the #2 run defense is a credible performance.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:51 am

At this point you have to ask the question, is Rick capable for building a good Oline?

Elf is the only decent offensive line pick he has had in the draft, most of his FA signings have underperformed and he has let good Olinemen leave and go to other teams.

Injuries have been a factor, but he has also shot himself in the foot with some of the decisions he has made. One decision not a lot of people talk about is the fact he cut a decent center before the 2016 season, forcing Berger to start at center and destroying the depth on the line. Depth we ended up desperately needing.

Boone was a horrible signing and Remmers and Reif haven’t really made this line better, despite their price tags.

Not going o-line in both round 1 and 2 this year after investing so much in the QB. They were down a starting guard going into the draft and FA’s and were still down a starting guard coming out of them. Is it surprising the run blocking sucks?
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by YikesVikes » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:20 am

VikingLord wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:56 pm
So what do you expect to happen going forward? Do you expect the rush offensive to continue to sputter, or do you see it continuing to improve?

I believe it will continue to improve for a few reasons.

And I still think 3.8 YPC on the road against the #2 run defense is a credible performance.
Not sure. I don't expect us to be great moving forward. I'm worried about playoff time when we need to kill the clock and can't.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by mansquatch » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:28 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:51 am
At this point you have to ask the question, is Rick capable for building a good Oline?

Elf is the only decent offensive line pick he has had in the draft, most of his FA signings have underperformed and he has let good Olinemen leave and go to other teams.

Injuries have been a factor, but he has also shot himself in the foot with some of the decisions he has made. One decision not a lot of people talk about is the fact he cut a decent center before the 2016 season, forcing Berger to start at center and destroying the depth on the line. Depth we ended up desperately needing.

Boone was a horrible signing and Remmers and Reif haven’t really made this line better, despite their price tags.

Not going o-line in both round 1 and 2 this year after investing so much in the QB. They were down a starting guard going into the draft and FA’s and were still down a starting guard coming out of them. Is it surprising the run blocking sucks?
I think they botched the 2018 draft, so I'll give you that one. However, Remmers and Reiff have both been dramatic improvements over what was turnstyle TJ Clemmings and a completely unreliable Matt Kalil. They also sniped Rashod Hill off the Jags practice squad. He might not be starter material, but he has proven to be a capable backup. Also, last year the OL went from being a glaring weakness to unit that could perform at times. Reiff had his best year as a pro. So to say Rick is incapable is silly, he pretty much did it last year.

A lot of people on here have a REALLY short memory.

Part of the OL woes are also on DeFelippo. One of Pat Shurmer's best qualities was that he was adept at building game plans that allowed us to defeat defenses AND play to our player's strengths. DeFelippo hasn't always been calling the best game for the pieces he has on the board. He also hasn't been calling the best game to help his defense. This issue has been getting better, but it still isn't where it need to be.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:43 am

mansquatch wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:28 am
I think they botched the 2018 draft, so I'll give you that one. However, Remmers and Reiff have both been dramatic improvements over what was turnstyle TJ Clemmings and a completely unreliable Matt Kalil. They also sniped Rashod Hill off the Jags practice squad. He might not be starter material, but he has proven to be a capable backup. Also, last year the OL went from being a glaring weakness to unit that could perform at times. Reiff had his best year as a pro. So to say Rick is incapable is silly, he pretty much did it last year.

A lot of people on here have a REALLY short memory.

Part of the OL woes are also on DeFelippo. One of Pat Shurmer's best qualities was that he was adept at building game plans that allowed us to defeat defenses AND play to our player's strengths. DeFelippo hasn't always been calling the best game for the pieces he has on the board. He also hasn't been calling the best game to help his defense. This issue has been getting better, but it still isn't where it need to be.
I guess I dont understand how we can say we "botched" the 2018 draft when we landed Hughes and O'Neill in the first two rounds.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:26 pm

mansquatch wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:28 am
I think they botched the 2018 draft, so I'll give you that one. However, Remmers and Reiff have both been dramatic improvements over what was turnstyle TJ Clemmings and a completely unreliable Matt Kalil. They also sniped Rashod Hill off the Jags practice squad. He might not be starter material, but he has proven to be a capable backup. Also, last year the OL went from being a glaring weakness to unit that could perform at times. Reiff had his best year as a pro. So to say Rick is incapable is silly, he pretty much did it last year.

A lot of people on here have a REALLY short memory.

Part of the OL woes are also on DeFelippo. One of Pat Shurmer's best qualities was that he was adept at building game plans that allowed us to defeat defenses AND play to our player's strengths. DeFelippo hasn't always been calling the best game for the pieces he has on the board. He also hasn't been calling the best game to help his defense. This issue has been getting better, but it still isn't where it need to be.
The line looked better last year because Case, with all his shortcomings, moved well in the pocket.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:59 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:26 pm
The line looked better last year because Case, with all his shortcomings, moved well in the pocket.
I disagree. Cousins moves way better than some think. Out of all the starting QBs in the NFL right now, Cousins has the 10th most rushing yards. He's not a stiff like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning in the pocket. The guy can move.

Also, the line was better last year because we had Nick Easton and Joe Berger most of the year. Granted, Easton wasnt great but he was better than Compton and Berger was very underrated. He always ranked fairly well according to PFF. Remmers was at RT, which he is a little better at than RG. And Reiff was fully healthy and not battling a foot issue. Oh and Elflein was there all year where we didnt have him for the first few games this year.

So all in all, this line has had some huge changes since last year. It isn't that Case is some superior athlete to Cousins. Does he move a little better in the pocket? Maybe but Cousins is far from a dud in the pocket and can move much better than many fans think.

Last year according to NextGen stats, Keenum has 2.78 seconds to throw the ball behind our OL. This year Cousins has 2.67 seconds. 0.11 seconds is longer than you would think. When Keenum played Philly, his 2.78 second window dropped to 2.64. Does that make him immobile? No it's because by years end, our OL was all banged up again and guys were playing out of position. Easton was out, Remmers was playing OG, Hill (woof) was playing RT and Elflein got hurt that game. And at the same time, we had our best overall lineman (Berger) last year. This year Cousins doesnt have the luxury of Berger and has guys like Remmers stuck at RG, Compton who wouldnt be starting if Easton were healthy, Hill (somehow) starting over O'Neill, Elflein/Jones combo to start the year and Reiff with a foot issue. Case didnt have that early in the year. At all
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by S197 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:01 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:51 am
At this point you have to ask the question, is Rick capable for building a good Oline?
Lets take a look:

2008: John Sullivan, 6th (hit)
2009: Phil Loadholt, 2nd (hit)
2010: Chris DeGeare, 5th (miss)
2011: Demarcus Love, 6th (miss)
2011: Brandon Fusco, 6th (hit?)
2012: Matt Kalil, 1st (miss)
2013: Jeff Baca, 6th (miss)
2013: Travis Bond, 7th (miss)
2014: David Yankey, 5th (miss)
2015: TJ Clemmings, 4th (miss)
2015: Tyrus Thompson, 6th (miss)
2015: Austin Shepherd, 6th (miss)
2016: Willie Beavers, 4th (miss)
2017: Pat Elflein, 3rd (hit)
2017: Danny Isidora, 5th (TBD)

A couple takeaways for me. First, it's clear there's not a lot of draft capital going in the OL and more of a late round shotgun approach, which hasn't really worked. Kalil was the only 1st rounder in Spielman's tenure and while he was a bust, everyone else around where he was taken was a bust too so hard to put this one on Rick. On the rare occasion where he does draft a lineman high (Elflein, Loadholt) they were decent picks.

So is he capable of building an OL? Maybe. But it hasn't been a priority. The roster has been filled with a bunch of 5th/6th rounders that haven't panned out. And some brutally bad 4th round picks in Beavers & Clemmings. With Elf last year and O'Neill this year, perhaps Rick is realizing his prior approach isn't working. We'll see, but what's clear is a decade of neglect has left us where we are. Spielman has built himself a solid roster but if he does have an area of improvement, it's clearly OL.

Granted this doesn't take into account free agents but his philosophy has always been "build through the draft" and it's evident where his priorities are.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by StumpHunter » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:55 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:59 pm
I disagree. Cousins moves way better than some think. Out of all the starting QBs in the NFL right now, Cousins has the 10th most rushing yards. He's not a stiff like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning in the pocket. The guy can move.

Also, the line was better last year because we had Nick Easton and Joe Berger most of the year. Granted, Easton wasnt great but he was better than Compton and Berger was very underrated. He always ranked fairly well according to PFF. Remmers was at RT, which he is a little better at than RG. And Reiff was fully healthy and not battling a foot issue. Oh and Elflein was there all year where we didnt have him for the first few games this year.

So all in all, this line has had some huge changes since last year. It isn't that Case is some superior athlete to Cousins. Does he move a little better in the pocket? Maybe but Cousins is far from a dud in the pocket and can move much better than many fans think.

Last year according to NextGen stats, Keenum has 2.78 seconds to throw the ball behind our OL. This year Cousins has 2.67 seconds. 0.11 seconds is longer than you would think. When Keenum played Philly, his 2.78 second window dropped to 2.64. Does that make him immobile? No it's because by years end, our OL was all banged up again and guys were playing out of position. Easton was out, Remmers was playing OG, Hill (woof) was playing RT and Elflein got hurt that game. And at the same time, we had our best overall lineman (Berger) last year. This year Cousins doesnt have the luxury of Berger and has guys like Remmers stuck at RG, Compton who wouldnt be starting if Easton were healthy, Hill (somehow) starting over O'Neill, Elflein/Jones combo to start the year and Reiff with a foot issue. Case didnt have that early in the year. At all
Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are/were better in the pocket than Cousins.

It isn't really about athleticism, Cousins has that. It is knowing when you need to bail from the pocket, and when you have time to wait for a receiver to get open. Cousins has either been late to leave, or has failed to realize the pocket was collapsing a lot this season. It is incredibly difficult to block for a QB who doesn't want to move from a spot, and we are seeing the Oline struggle to block for Cousins because of that.

Keenum on the other hand was a little Houdini in the pocket. He is not a good starting QB, but he is fantastic at avoiding the pass rush. If you can't see the difference between what Keenum did last year avoiding the rush and what Cousins isn't doing this year, I can't help you.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:09 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:55 pm
Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are/were better in the pocket than Cousins.

It isn't really about athleticism, Cousins has that. It is knowing when you need to bail from the pocket, and when you have time to wait for a receiver to get open. Cousins has either been late to leave, or has failed to realize the pocket was collapsing a lot this season. It is incredibly difficult to block for a QB who doesn't want to move from a spot, and we are seeing the Oline struggle to block for Cousins because of that.

Keenum on the other hand was a little Houdini in the pocket. He is not a good starting QB, but he is fantastic at avoiding the pass rush. If you can't see the difference between what Keenum did last year avoiding the rush and what Cousins isn't doing this year, I can't help you.
I was saying manning and Brady from a mobile point of view was not very good. I get what you’re saying now. I’m still not in 100% agreement with it but I’m not saying you’re wrong either. Cousins isn’t sam Bradford bad when it comes to that attribute. But he isn’t great at it either.

The main reason I still disagree to some sense, is that it’s not like this OL is the same or better than last years. It’s much worse. And IMO, that has little to do with Kirk cousins. Cousins release time is pretty darn quick. How many times have we seen him literally take a 3 step drop and drop a dime to someone as he’s getting crushed doing it? Quite often. You should not be getting hit that quick as a QB.

I guess the main thing I disagree with is that if you’re blaming this more on cousins than you are the OL, I’ll say you’re wrong there. Which I don’t necessarily think you’re trying to do. But this line is a LOT worse than last years.

Healthy Reiff compared to bad foot Reiff in 2018. Much worse now.

Easton compared to Compton in 2018. Worse now

Elflein is a wash

Berger compared to Remmers in 2018. Much worse now

Hill compared to Remmers. Much worse now

The OL is a lot worse for a few reasons. It could be much better if we had the right guys in (O’Neill and jones) and the injury to Reiff doesn’t help. Could we have drafted better? Sure but I love oneill. Berger retiring killed us more than some think.

I wish zim wasn’t so stubborn and gave these guys a shot. I’m wondering if the reason we keep Compton in is because he’s played with cousins before. Who knows. But we can improve it right now if we start the right players. I will say zim has praised O’Neill in his last two pressers so maybe he’s starting to see it.

I’m not saying cousins isn’t at fault but it’s not nearly as bad as what you’re implying. It’s more that the OL is much worse.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by mansquatch » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:29 am

S197 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:01 pm
Lets take a look:

2008: John Sullivan, 6th (hit)
2009: Phil Loadholt, 2nd (hit)
2010: Chris DeGeare, 5th (miss)
2011: Demarcus Love, 6th (miss)
2011: Brandon Fusco, 6th (hit?)
2012: Matt Kalil, 1st (miss)
2013: Jeff Baca, 6th (miss)
2013: Travis Bond, 7th (miss)
2014: David Yankey, 5th (miss)
2015: TJ Clemmings, 4th (miss)
2015: Tyrus Thompson, 6th (miss)
2015: Austin Shepherd, 6th (miss)
2016: Willie Beavers, 4th (miss)
2017: Pat Elflein, 3rd (hit)
2017: Danny Isidora, 5th (TBD)

A couple takeaways for me. First, it's clear there's not a lot of draft capital going in the OL and more of a late round shotgun approach, which hasn't really worked. Kalil was the only 1st rounder in Spielman's tenure and while he was a bust, everyone else around where he was taken was a bust too so hard to put this one on Rick. On the rare occasion where he does draft a lineman high (Elflein, Loadholt) they were decent picks.

So is he capable of building an OL? Maybe. But it hasn't been a priority. The roster has been filled with a bunch of 5th/6th rounders that haven't panned out. And some brutally bad 4th round picks in Beavers & Clemmings. With Elf last year and O'Neill this year, perhaps Rick is realizing his prior approach isn't working. We'll see, but what's clear is a decade of neglect has left us where we are. Spielman has built himself a solid roster but if he does have an area of improvement, it's clearly OL.

Granted this doesn't take into account free agents but his philosophy has always been "build through the draft" and it's evident where his priorities are.
A few thoughts on this to stir the pot:

1.) How does this compare with other GMs around the league. Can't really say Rick sucks if you do not have a point of comparison? This applies both to OL Drafting and Drafting in general.

2.) Some won't like to hear this, but NOT drafting heavily in OL early IS a strategy.

Point One I've made a bazillion times on here. It really doesn't require elaboration. When someone says the GM sucks, I say "as compared to what?" I've rarely gotten an answer and usually when I do it ends up being "We didn't win the SB, so it wasn't good enough" which is just silly. The Patriots didn't win the SB last year, so should they fire Belicik?

Point 2: There has been much recent discussion in the NFL about the poor performance of NCAA Offensive Line prospects in the NFL game due to the differences between the spread offense and the NFL game. This isn't new information, but it might be new to some who are new to the topic. To me this means early round drafting of OL is risky or at least riskier than other positions. (This changed recently, in the 90s and 2000s OL was an en vogue safe draft pick) So if you only get so many blue chip picks, does it make sense to risk them on OL vs. addressing the position in FA?

That being said, the NFL is a competitive institution and thus the smarter clubs will constantly be reacting and changing to an ever evolving landscape. So strategically what might have been viable even 2 years ago (adding pieces if FA) might not be as viable as competition affects the pricing.

My biggest conclusion on OL is that the single most important item isn't talked about and that is the effectiveness of the position group. It seems like right now in the NFL game any prospect that comes into the league at OL requires coaching to get them ready to play on Sunday. The teams with the coaches that can most effectively grow this talent consistently are the ones that are finding OL success. I think losing Tony Sparano was probably a much bigger loss than we realize.

Just my $0.02 on this topic.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:36 am

mansquatch wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:29 am
A few thoughts on this to stir the pot:

1.) How does this compare with other GMs around the league. Can't really say Rick sucks if you do not have a point of comparison? This applies both to OL Drafting and Drafting in general.

2.) Some won't like to hear this, but NOT drafting heavily in OL early IS a strategy.

Point One I've made a bazillion times on here. It really doesn't require elaboration. When someone says the GM sucks, I say "as compared to what?" I've rarely gotten an answer and usually when I do it ends up being "We didn't win the SB, so it wasn't good enough" which is just silly. The Patriots didn't win the SB last year, so should they fire Belicik?

Point 2: There has been much recent discussion in the NFL about the poor performance of NCAA Offensive Line prospects in the NFL game due to the differences between the spread offense and the NFL game. This isn't new information, but it might be new to some who are new to the topic. To me this means early round drafting of OL is risky or at least riskier than other positions. (This changed recently, in the 90s and 2000s OL was an en vogue safe draft pick) So if you only get so many blue chip picks, does it make sense to risk them on OL vs. addressing the position in FA?

That being said, the NFL is a competitive institution and thus the smarter clubs will constantly be reacting and changing to an ever evolving landscape. So strategically what might have been viable even 2 years ago (adding pieces if FA) might not be as viable as competition affects the pricing.

My biggest conclusion on OL is that the single most important item isn't talked about and that is the effectiveness of the position group. It seems like right now in the NFL game any prospect that comes into the league at OL requires coaching to get them ready to play on Sunday. The teams with the coaches that can most effectively grow this talent consistently are the ones that are finding OL success. I think losing Tony Sparano was probably a much bigger loss than we realize.

Just my $0.02 on this topic.
Some great points here mansquatch. I'll add a few more as well:

1.) I've said this before and I'll say it again, guys need to understand that if we took top OL early in the draft, we would be lacking somewhere else on this team. There is no team out there that is perfect or loaded at every single position. This team is stacked top to bottom at just about every position except OL. It drives me crazy when guys say "We need to build an OL like the cowboys!!" Really??! So we need to spend 3 first round picks and a 2nd round pick on offensive lineman? (Smith, Frederick, Martin and Williams). Well we pretty much did that at CB over the past few years. And IF we did what the Cowboys did and drafted all those early OL, does anyone want to guess what fans on here would be saying about our defensive backfield?? "Spielman doesnt know how to draft CBs" or "Spielman neglected CB over the past 5+ years", etc, etc. And in the end, what did it do for the Cowboys? They cant even make the playoffs anymore no less and if they do they are one and done. I'm not saying Spielman had the right overall approach but fans need to look at it this way as well. So after all those OL picks the Cowboys get what? The leading rusher in the NFL? We had that many of times with AP behind a average to below average OL.

2.) As for Matt Kalil, it was initially an excellent pick. Pro Bowl his rookie year. But Matt Kalil himself was the cause of his own demise. That wasnt on Spielman. Matt Kalil took Tyron Smith's LTs job at USC no less. He was legit. Not a bad pick at all and I'm sure any of us on here would have made the same pick (or one of the busts that went early that year).

3.) Yes losing Sparano was a big one I think. I also think losing Berger hurt more than some think.

Overall, I would love to see how "bad" this OL would really be if the right guys were in the right spots. Such as:

LT- O'Neill
LG- Jones
C- Elflein
RG- Remmers
RT- Reiff

Would it really be THAT bad or worse than what we have now? Highly doubt it.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:59 am

I never said Rick was a bad GM.

He is bad at finding talent to put on the Oline compared to the rest of league's GMs, based on the fact that his O lines are almost always below average to bad.

Not because we don't spend money on the line, we do, a great deal of money. It just usually goes to guys who don't deserve the money they are making.

As for the draft, if we aren't drafting an olineman in the first or second or third it is because Rick doesn't feel there is anyone at that spot worth drafting, or he feels a nickle corner can make more of an impact than a good LG on this team.

So if the thing holding us back is bad Oline play, did he make the right decisions in drafting or not drafting Olinemen? Did he make the right decisions in signing or not re-signing olinemen?
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:19 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:59 am
I never said Rick was a bad GM.

He is bad at finding talent to put on the Oline compared to the rest of league's GMs, based on the fact that his O lines are almost always below average to bad.

Not because we don't spend money on the line, we do, a great deal of money. It just usually goes to guys who don't deserve the money they are making.

As for the draft, if we aren't drafting an olineman in the first or second or third it is because Rick doesn't feel there is anyone at that spot worth drafting, or he feels a nickle corner can make more of an impact than a good LG on this team.

So if the thing holding us back is bad Oline play, did he make the right decisions in drafting or not drafting Olinemen? Did he make the right decisions in signing or not re-signing olinemen?
He did draft O-linemen.

Spielman traded up from 79 to 65 to get Pat Elflein in the third round last year, which was a steal.

He drafted Brian O'Neil in the second round this year, and most on this board believe he should be starting.

He also signed Riley Reiff and Mike Remmers last year, so you can't say he didn't sign linemen.

Not saying the O-line isn't a problem. But I'd say the problem stems from injuries as much as lack of attention. And probably some subpar performances out of people we count on (Reiff this year, again probably due to injury, and Remmers at guard, which is not his natural position).

Let's also not forget that Tony Sparano died a week before training camp. I'm sure Clancy Barone and Andrew Janocko are doing their best and probably a decent job, but Sparano made this crew into a serviceable O-line last year. His loss is a pretty big hit.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:35 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:59 am
I never said Rick was a bad GM.

He is bad at finding talent to put on the Oline compared to the rest of league's GMs, based on the fact that his O lines are almost always below average to bad.

Not because we don't spend money on the line, we do, a great deal of money. It just usually goes to guys who don't deserve the money they are making.

As for the draft, if we aren't drafting an olineman in the first or second or third it is because Rick doesn't feel there is anyone at that spot worth drafting, or he feels a nickle corner can make more of an impact than a good LG on this team.

So if the thing holding us back is bad Oline play, did he make the right decisions in drafting or not drafting Olinemen? Did he make the right decisions in signing or not re-signing olinemen?
Compared to what GM's? Because right now after week 6, PFF has our OL ranked at 24th. OL's grading out worse than ours are NYG, TB, Oak, Sea, Cincy, Buffalo, Arizona and Houston and QB's with "better" OL's like Rodgers and Prescott have been sacked more times this year than Cousins. No less both QBs are very, very mobile compared to Cousins. Mariota who has one of the best OLs and is very mobile, has 1 less sack taken than Cousins. Bottom line is, there are a LOT of bad offensive lines out there right now. Yeah some way worse than ours.

As for guys that "dont deserve the money", Reiff and Remmers got what the tackle market was dishing out. If you think we could land Reiff and Remmers for $10 mill less, you're wrong. We paid Reiff $2 million more than the Panthers paid Kalil. And the two tackles are night and day. Remmers landed an average RT salary. If we dont go after either of them, who do we go after? It's not like we paid them out the a$s. They got what the market was showing.

Again, what is the difference between a good LG or a good RT? Hernandez doesnt make this OL any better than O'Neill does right now. I've said this a million times but tackle is our weak spot right now. Especially with Reiff hurt. I'd much rather have better tackles than better guards. We went after a tackle that is very athletic. He's given up 2 pressures in 4 games and is known for his pass blocking. I'd also rather have a better pass blocking tackle than a run mauling guard. It bothers me when fans continue to act like passing on Hernandez is why this OL is struggling this year. It's not even remotely close to being true. So let's get past that, because it's not even worth arguing over. What's done is done and we have a pretty good tackle. And landed Hughes in the process. Not Josh Jackson who's been getting torched for the Packers.
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