Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

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Texas Vike
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by Texas Vike » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:52 am

This collective frustration among the fanbase has existed for at least the past 3-4 years. Rick's philosophy regarding the OL seems to be that it is not a position that he wants to devote much draft capital towards. He has devoted some free agency capital to the position (Remmers and Reiff). These actions seem to indicate that he prefers OLinemen with some seasoning in the NFL. Another Rick tendency for this position seems to be quantity over quality--i.e. acquire lots of low investment talent and see if any develop into a solid player. I personally suspect that he felt 'burned' by the way Matt Khalil's career unfolded. Overall, I find it frustrating that OL is repeatedly our 'fatal flaw' and yet Rick only sticks temporary band aids on the wound.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by FullWood » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:22 am

Do you think we should give Ereck Flowers a call? Could he help this team?
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by FullWood » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:24 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:24 pm
Do miss his avatar. Fit his personality perfectly.
After do some searching and reading some of his posts and looking at his avatar I must agree with this 100%.
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Cliff
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by Cliff » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:50 pm

Alright guys, I know I was a bit guilty too but let's lay off.
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S197
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by S197 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:56 pm

FullWood wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:22 am
Do you think we should give Ereck Flowers a call? Could he help this team?
No thanks, he's a human turnstile.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by Crax » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:23 pm

S197 wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:56 pm
No thanks, he's a human turnstile.
Giants o-line is terrible and he got cut there. Definitely not
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by FullWood » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:13 pm

S197 wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:56 pm
No thanks, he's a human turnstile.
lol that's funny. He's a former first round draft pick.
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FullWood
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by FullWood » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:13 pm

Crax wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:23 pm
Giants o-line is terrible and he got cut there. Definitely not
Change of scenery...maybe?
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by halfgiz » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:15 pm

I'm not happy with the offensive line. Trying to replace Berger by moving Remmers to guard is laughable. I still feel Remmers should have been kept at tackle where he had at least a respectable season last year.
And to compound things we lost Easton for the season. Which was totally unexpected.

Insert Comptom into the guard spot and he is playing TJ Clemmings bad, but yet we haven't even tried to sure up the spot. Which is going to bite us....

I understand Reiff has been battling a foot injury. Hopefully we can get him healed up,
If not it might be a long season.
Last but not least Rick is always picking up tier 2-3 OLmen and hoping they will turn into something respectable.
So far he hasn't had much luck...I would still like to know if he was responsible for the Willie Beavers pick.

Good to see Murray have a good day at RB today....much needed
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:01 pm

halfgiz wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:15 pm
I'm not happy with the offensive line. Trying to replace Berger by moving Remmers to guard is laughable. I still feel Remmers should have been kept at tackle where he had at least a respectable season last year.
And to compound things we lost Easton for the season. Which was totally unexpected.

Insert Comptom into the guard spot and he is playing TJ Clemmings bad, but yet we haven't even tried to sure up the spot. Which is going to bite us....

I understand Reiff has been battling a foot injury. Hopefully we can get him healed up,
If not it might be a long season.
Last but not least Rick is always picking up tier 2-3 OLmen and hoping they will turn into something respectable.
So far he hasn't had much luck...I would still like to know if he was responsible for the Willie Beavers pick.

Good to see Murray have a good day at RB today....much needed
A few things I don't understand with this staff right now....

1.) Why is O'Neill not a starter over Hill??

2.) Why is Jones not getting a shot at guard over Compton or center (and move Elflein to OG)??

3.) Why is it when Reiff gets hurt that we put Hill at LT and not O'Neill?? Especially when facing a speed rusher like Chandler Jones.

It just baffles me. I blame this more on Zim and Flip for not making the adjustments needed on the OL than I do on Spielman. Granted, Spielman could've went OL a little harder in the draft the last few years but we had a VERY similar OL last year and they played much much better. Granted, Keenum was mobile but Cousins has surprised me in that aspect. He's more mobile than I thought he was. This OL can be better than it currently is. But I truly believe we have the wrong guys starting and some guys in the wrong spots.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:56 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:01 pm
A few things I don't understand with this staff right now....

1.) Why is O'Neill not a starter over Hill??

2.) Why is Jones not getting a shot at guard over Compton or center (and move Elflein to OG)??

3.) Why is it when Reiff gets hurt that we put Hill at LT and not O'Neill?? Especially when facing a speed rusher like Chandler Jones.

It just baffles me. I blame this more on Zim and Flip for not making the adjustments needed on the OL than I do on Spielman. Granted, Spielman could've went OL a little harder in the draft the last few years but we had a VERY similar OL last year and they played much much better. Granted, Keenum was mobile but Cousins has surprised me in that aspect. He's more mobile than I thought he was. This OL can be better than it currently is. But I truly believe we have the wrong guys starting and some guys in the wrong spots.
I think so too. Oniel should be playing LT. My only guess is, he's not as comfortable there???
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:18 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:01 pm
A few things I don't understand with this staff right now....

1.) Why is O'Neill not a starter over Hill??

2.) Why is Jones not getting a shot at guard over Compton or center (and move Elflein to OG)??

3.) Why is it when Reiff gets hurt that we put Hill at LT and not O'Neill?? Especially when facing a speed rusher like Chandler Jones.

It just baffles me. I blame this more on Zim and Flip for not making the adjustments needed on the OL than I do on Spielman. Granted, Spielman could've went OL a little harder in the draft the last few years but we had a VERY similar OL last year and they played much much better. Granted, Keenum was mobile but Cousins has surprised me in that aspect. He's more mobile than I thought he was. This OL can be better than it currently is. But I truly believe we have the wrong guys starting and some guys in the wrong spots.
I agree. Does Jones play?
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by VikingLord » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:23 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:39 am
Its sad when 3.8 yards is considered respectable. Why do we always think that good enough is ok until it bites us in the #### come playoff time?
3.8 YPC on the road against the #2 rush defense is respectable.

As for whether "good enough" is enough, it depends. If the rush threat is credible, if it forces the opposing defense to account for it, then I'd say yes, it is. Who wouldn't like to have a great ground attack, but it's the overall picture that matters, so credible is good enough if the offense can wheel and deal effectively through the air, which so far has been the case.
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:45 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:23 pm
3.8 YPC on the road against the #2 rush defense is respectable.

As for whether "good enough" is enough, it depends. If the rush threat is credible, if it forces the opposing defense to account for it, then I'd say yes, it is. Who wouldn't like to have a great ground attack, but it's the overall picture that matters, so credible is good enough if the offense can wheel and deal effectively through the air, which so far has been the case.
But it isn't credible. Prior to last game we were dead last in rushing. We still didn't have someone break 50 yards rushing in any game, Eagles, Bills, Packers etc. Holding on to we had 3.8 yards per rush in a game where we had 77 total is assinine. As I predicted, we would rush the ball well against the Cards because (1 we made changes on the oline and 2. They are horrible against the rush).
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Re: Fustrated with lack of changes on Oline

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:00 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:31 am
I usually agree with you mansquatch. YikesVikes and I have our battles but I have to side with most of his take here when it comes to the OL. You do make other great points about the whole Dallas thing. We dont need some amazing OL just to win a SB. They just need to do their job. Be average as a group to be honest

Yes Reiff was able to test free agency because the Lions had their eye on Wagner. Who in the end didnt turn out as well as they expected either. Reiff wasnt just inconsistent at RT in Detroit. He was just as inconsistent at LT. Saying Reiff "hasnt been as solid as last year" isnt even close. He's been miles behind where he was last year. And the problem is, he's battling a foot issue to go along with it. We currently dont have a franchise LT on this team right now. Reiff was an average one but not a long term Joe Thomas type fix.

I have said for the last 3 weeks now that I think our OL should consist of:

LT- O'Neill
LG- Jones
C- Elflein
RG- Remmers/Isidora
RT- Reiff

And here is why. Athleticism in an offensive tackle (right or left) trumps strength any day of the week IMO. O'Neill has played in 3 games now. And played a lot in those 3 games. Nobody on here yet, including myself, could recall one time in any of those 3 games where O'Neill has given up a single pressure. He played LT in college a few times but mostly RT. I get that. But here is why I am more comfortable with him at LT rather than Reiff. Riley Reiff is getting beat for one reason right now (especially vs Buf). Lack of athleticism and foot quickness. All Jerry Hughes was doing was taking a wide rush on him and Reiff couldnt kick slide out there quick enough to stop him. He was easily figured out and abused all game for it. These blindside outside rushers are all about speed for most teams. Not power. You see way more speed and quickness than you do bull rush.

Insert O'Neill. He has the athleticism and quickness to get out to speed rushers where Reiff does not. We could say, "then just stick him at RT for Hill". No because Hill is much much worse. The number one thing we need to protect is Kirk's blindside. Second comes his right side. At least with Reiff at RT, Kirk can see a speed rusher coming. Taylor Decker was suppose to be a plug and play RT for Detroit and took Reiffs LT spot almost immediately. There is no reason O'Neill couldnt do the same given how he has played. Granted he isnt as highly touted as Decker was coming out but he's showed very very well in 3 games.

Many of the great, young LT's in the NFL right now weren't bench press beasts at the combine. Many of them were just excellent athletes.

-Taylor Lewan put up 29 reps on the bench
-Taylor Decker put up 20
-Jake Matthews put up 24
.....O'Neill put up 22.

-Lewan ran a 4.87 40 yd dash
-Decker was a 5.23
-Matthews was a 5.07
.....O'Neill was a 4.82 (better than any of the 3)

-Lewan ran a 4.49 20 yd shuttle
-Decker was a 4.76
-Matthews was a 4.47
....O'Neill was a 4.50

-Lewan had a 7.39 3 cone time
-Decker was a 7.70
-Matthews was a 7.34 (which was a top time that year)
.....O'Neill was a 7.14 (shattered all 3 of them)

Granted these arent the end-all-be-all stats but those were the top 3 young LTs in the NFL right now. And O'Neill either shattered them in these categories or ran right with them. I used the top 4 categories you would want to see for an offensive lineman at the combine.

With how O'Neill has played so far and looking in depth at how good of an athlete this kid actually is, he has the athleticism and quickness to stay toe to toe with just about any speed rusher out there. Now I'm sure technique and strength need work but I still take the athleticism any day over that. Because the plus side is, he's NOT getting beat clean off the snap like Reiff and Hill have. And that alone saves your QB more time than you think.

I think putting O'Neill at LT is a no-brainer. And moving Reiff to RT because granted, he hasnt been great but he's much better than Hill. As for our guards, I say switch them up too. Jones played quite a bit of guard before. Put him in for Compton and let Remmers and Isidora battle it out. Elflein is obviously set.

But again, my number 1 priority right now is the blind side. And I put O'Neill there any day of the week right now.
That sounds like a hell of a line to me
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