Rams Postgame Thread

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Purple Reign
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Re: Rams Postgame Thread

Post by Purple Reign » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:02 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:09 pm
Point is, you actually need attempts to do something. We didn’t run Murray more than twice against buffalo because we couldn’t, it’s because we were down 17-0 after 5 offensive plays. And if you think different I’m going to sit here and tell you you’re dead wrong. Same goes for GB when we were down 20-7. You can’t just ground and Pound when you’re down by 13+
Being down by 13 is not reason to abandon the run if there is still time in the game to get 2 or 3 more possessions. You abandon the run if you need to score quickly and to save time on the clock, or if you just can't get any yards running the ball. If you have lots of time left and can run the ball, you don't abandon it. The Vikings had the lead twice in the first half against the Rams but more or less abandoned the run because they couldn't run it, plain and simple. Getting more attempts wasn't going to change that.
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Re: Rams Postgame Thread

Post by YikesVikes » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:23 pm

Purple Reign wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:02 pm
Being down by 13 is not reason to abandon the run if there is still time in the game to get 2 or 3 more possessions. You abandon the run if you need to score quickly and to save time on the clock, or if you just can't get any yards running the ball. If you have lots of time left and can run the ball, you don't abandon it. The Vikings had the lead twice in the first half against the Rams but more or less abandoned the run because they couldn't run it, plain and simple. Getting more attempts wasn't going to change that.
That's how I felt but I am willing to see what Zimmer does to adjust. Lets see if 27 rushing attempts change our current metrics
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Re: Rams Postgame Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:23 am

Purple Reign wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:02 pm
Being down by 13 is not reason to abandon the run if there is still time in the game to get 2 or 3 more possessions. You abandon the run if you need to score quickly and to save time on the clock, or if you just can't get any yards running the ball. If you have lots of time left and can run the ball, you don't abandon it. The Vikings had the lead twice in the first half against the Rams but more or less abandoned the run because they couldn't run it, plain and simple. Getting more attempts wasn't going to change that.
I partly agree with what you are saying but I believe that getting more attempts DOES change that. If you run once or twice on first down (which we have done often and it drives me nuts) and you dont gain yards, it doesnt mean your running game is "not working". Like I said, if that was the case, you'd see a lot of teams abandoning the run all over the league. Do you know how many times last year Murray had a few first down runs early that didnt work? But guess what, they continued to run the ball throughout the game. Why? Because they werent down by two scores or more. We have been the last 3 games. Zimmer literally said in his presser yesterday that a big reason the run game hasnt been up to par has been due to the score of some of these games. I mean it's not like I am making this up and just trying to find an excuse why the run game is dead last in the NFL. It's also coming out of our coaches mouth now. I've been saying it for a week or so now. And Zimmer just said it yesterday. It's obvious. We are leading the entire SF game and had over 20 total rushes I believe. We havent hit that since because we're down by two scores going into the 2nd half
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Re: Rams Postgame Thread

Post by PacificNorseWest » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:56 am

Had they made more effort to run the ball though, I think the game would have been out of hand late. They weren't effective, so they would have risked 3 and outs trying to get it going and the Rams were rarely being stopped so the game just kind of dictated everything. Had they been able to get it going though, it would have went a long way in "slowing" LA's offense by keeping them off the field. That's how it's gonna be when Minnesota beats them in the playoffs.
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Re: Rams Postgame Thread

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:57 pm

PacificNorseWest wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:56 am
Had they made more effort to run the ball though, I think the game would have been out of hand late. They weren't effective, so they would have risked 3 and outs trying to get it going and the Rams were rarely being stopped so the game just kind of dictated everything. Had they been able to get it going though, it would have went a long way in "slowing" LA's offense by keeping them off the field. That's how it's gonna be when Minnesota beats them in the playoffs.
My point is, how do you know it "wasnt effective" when they arent running the ball other than on a few first down plays? That is my whole point of this argument. Guys are saying it isnt effective but how can you truly say that when our starting RB had TWO carries vs Buffalo. Nobody can sit here and say "well his two carries werent effective so thats why they bailed on the run game". That is 100% false. We have the lowest amount of rushing attempts in the entire NFL. This isnt like we have Asiata and McKinnon again. We have one of the better younger backs in football and one of the best backup RBs out there. I can guarantee Zim isnt "giving up on the run after a few no gain plays". It's not like we have duds out there running the football. These guys can break a big one at any moment. They arent bailing on it because it "isnt working". They are bailing because of the score. Not sure how many times Zim and myself need to say that before people start believing it.

Side note: The Cardinals have one of the best RBs in the game and they are 2nd to last in rushing attempts. Why? Because they are 0-4 and have been down just about every game. I mean think about it, you have Rosen/Bradford or David Johnson to rely on. They arent dumb. Johnson is obviously the better bet but when you're losing by a considerable amount, you have no choice but to pass. Insert Vikings.
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Re: Rams Postgame Thread

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:45 pm

The truth is that the league is changing.

I was reading an article on SI.com today, and they were talking about how, during these first four games, the percentage of passes on first down league-wide is the highest it's ever been. Teams no longer run to set up the pass. They pass to set up the run -- if they run at all.

Check out these numbers:
SI.com wrote:• There have been 228 touchdown passes through four weeks, breaking the previous high-water mark of 205 (2013).
• The league’s collective completion percentage (65.4) and passer rating (94.5) are also four-week records, topping marks set in 2014 (64.3, 91.5).
• Passing yards through four weeks (32,215) also ran at an all-time high, edging the mark set in 2016 (31,616).
• Eleven quarterbacks have more than 1,200 yards through four weeks. The previous four-week high there was seven, in 2011.
• Seven quarterbacks have double-digit touchdown passes, and 10 have a triple-digit passer rating. Both are four-week high water marks.
• There have also been more touchdowns (344) and points (3030) through four weeks than ever before.
The other point the article makes is that all the rules changes over the past few seasons have turned the NFL into almost totally a passing league. And because they've softened the rules on tackling so much, little guys like Tyreek Hill are catching the ball over the middle with no fear. Remember just a couple of years ago? If you made a catch over the middle against Seattle, you might not get up off the ground. Now because you can't lower the head, and you can't contact the receiver's head, and the "defenseless receiver," and all the other rules, nobody is afraid to run routes over the middle. That sets up a lot of the stuff we've seen against the Vikings, like the wheel routes by WRs that are working so well.
SI.com wrote:Rules changes: This is the most obvious, and goes back a decade to when the illegal contact rules were emphasized, handcuffing defensive backs. Now, with the helmet rule and body-weight rule in the spotlight, teams see apparent examples on film of safeties pulling up on potential kill shots, and linebackers lowering their target area. So naturally, that goes into coaching. “The middle of the field is a danger-free zone,” one pro scouting director texted me. “You used to face certain teams, like Seattle, with certain players, and unless you wanted to lose guys, you stayed away. You don’t have to be as concerned about that, and even if you get hit, it’ll probably be a penalty.” Those flags extend drives and, at times, generate scoring chances and passing yards that weren’t there before.
Read the article here.


And here's the other thing. The Vikings aren't the only good defensive team that's having trouble. The Rams are struggling. So are the Eagles, whom we play this week. Pittsburgh can't stop anybody. The only way to slow down the passing onslaught, so it seems, is to have a ferocious pass rush. Enter: The Chicago Bears.

My opinion here: All of this is happening because of ratings and fantasy football (i.e. legalized sports gambling such as Draft Kings). More offense means more eyeballs on the TV, and it means more fantasy points. Even in fantasy, people love high-scoring games. Fantasy produces HUGE money for the NFL, and so does TV, of course. Give the people what they want, I guess.

As much as I like Mike Zimmer -- he's my favorite Vikings coach since Bud Grant -- all this nonsense does beg the question: Can a defensive-minded coach be successful in this climate? Or do you need to be an offensive genius, like Sean McVay, Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan, etc.? Just wondering.
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Re: Rams Postgame Thread

Post by PacificNorseWest » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:01 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:57 pm
My point is, how do you know it "wasnt effective" when they arent running the ball other than on a few first down plays? That is my whole point of this argument. Guys are saying it isnt effective but how can you truly say that when our starting RB had TWO carries vs Buffalo. Nobody can sit here and say "well his two carries werent effective so thats why they bailed on the run game". That is 100% false. We have the lowest amount of rushing attempts in the entire NFL. This isnt like we have Asiata and McKinnon again. We have one of the better younger backs in football and one of the best backup RBs out there. I can guarantee Zim isnt "giving up on the run after a few no gain plays". It's not like we have duds out there running the football. These guys can break a big one at any moment. They arent bailing on it because it "isnt working". They are bailing because of the score. Not sure how many times Zim and myself need to say that before people start believing it.

Side note: The Cardinals have one of the best RBs in the game and they are 2nd to last in rushing attempts. Why? Because they are 0-4 and have been down just about every game. I mean think about it, you have Rosen/Bradford or David Johnson to rely on. They arent dumb. Johnson is obviously the better bet but when you're losing by a considerable amount, you have no choice but to pass. Insert Vikings.
My reply wasn't to you or anyone in particular. I was just giving my two cents. I think a better term than "wasn't effective" would be "wasn't a factor."
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Re: Rams Postgame Thread

Post by S197 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:49 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:45 pm
Just wondering.
I basically said the same thing in the Elite Defense thread. I think "defense wins championships" is a thing of the past. And even if it's not yet, it will slowly keep tipping that way over time.
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Re: Rams Postgame Thread

Post by FullWood » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:38 am

S197 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:49 pm
I basically said the same thing in the Elite Defense thread. I think "defense wins championships" is a thing of the past. And even if it's not yet, it will slowly keep tipping that way over time.
I think defense will always win championships even with 2 elite offense im incline to believe that the best defense out of the two will win out at the end.
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Re: Rams Postgame Thread

Post by S197 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:07 pm

FullWood wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:38 am
I think defense will always win championships even with 2 elite offense im incline to believe that the best defense out of the two will win out at the end.
I mean, yeah if you have two great offenses then obviously the team with the better defense will win. That should go without saying.
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