Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

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mansquatch
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by mansquatch »

i neglected to mention my complete disgust with Treadwell. Coley wasn't much better, he made the same mistake on a slant route, he was just lucky that his didn't turn into an INT. I suspect there will be a lot of time spent on slants / the jug machine and a lot of time on open field tackling during practice this week. There better be!
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by Texas Vike »

RE: Carlson.

What concerns me most is that he often isn't even close with his kicks and that is a somewhat common occurrence with him. It's not that he's just missing, it's that he's missing wide right. It just doesn't instill any confidence at all.
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by ChicagoViking »

mansquatch wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:13 amDefense: First off, WTF, why is this in the negative section? Tackling was still not where it needs to be, way too much YAC. Especially on the dink and dunk stuff. That needs to get cleaned up, call up Antoine Winfield and have him give a clinic to all the young CBs on how to tackle a guy on those swing passes. Coverage wasn't as tight as we saw last year, but I think that will get cleaned up. The tackling was, IMO, the biggest eye sore.
Sometimes when you're at the game it's harder to pay attention to every personnel move and who is playing when, but I did notice Jayron Kearse in on some early plays on the Packers' first possession. Then he completely whiffed on what I recall may have been a wheel route in the flat, and after that whiff, I only noticed him on the field for one more defensive snap the rest of the game.
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by ChicagoViking »

808vikingsfan wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:49 amLast week it was get rid of Compton. This week Carlson and Treadwell. Wonder who it will be next week.
You say that almost as if the fans calling for the heads of Carlson and Treadwell are fickle. Carlson has kicked in four preseason games and two regular season games. He looked terrible in one preseason game and may have just had one of the most epic fails of any Vikings kicker during regular season. If a sports shrink can't fix that kid's confidence in a week, I'm just not sure the Vikes have the luxury of patience. He cost us a win. Three different times. End of story.

As for Treadwell, the kid has had two-plus seasons to prove he can catch the ball, but he has shown nothing but consistent troywilliamsonitis. His drops -- including the one leading to the INT -- cost us the win every bit as much as Carlson's ineptitude. Hard to continue to show patience when he seems to be a player who can perform consistently only in practice, and not in games.
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by ChicagoViking »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:21 pmBecause our special teams stunk up Lambeau Field today in multiple ways. Punt block for a TD. Three blown field goals. Weird, questionable pooch kick that gave the Packers great field position. Terrible punt for a touchback. Simply one WTF after another. Mike Priefer, in my opinion, has to be sitting on a fairly warm seat. Average special-teams play wins us the game today. Easily.
By the way, for all of the legitimate gripes about the special teams' horrendous play this week, one other legitimate gripe I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that we almost witnessed one of the most boneheaded plays in Vikings' special teams history: when Holton Hill didn't take a knee, didn't hear a whistle, but still flipped the ball to the ref post kickoff -- only to see the ref jump back and let the ball fall onto the carpet. If the Packers gunners had been just a LITTLE closer, that would have been a TD for the Pack. Game over. WTF, Holton? WTF, special teams? Luckily, it was a disaster averted and a lesson learned without any real consequence other than looking like a complete F'ing idiot.
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by Mothman »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:45 am We'll just agree to disagree here. I don't think you can coach based on what Gary Anderson did in 1998, but reasonable people can disagree.
I'm not suggesting Zimmer coach based on what Gary Anderson did in 1998. As Is see it, the "math" is simple:

rookie kicker + two bad misses on the day + hostile road environment + overtime = high pressure situation and reduced likelihood of success

We saw how it played out and the result wasn't particularly surprising.
Going forward, I don't see how they can keep Daniel Carlson. This team is too good and has too much championship potential to trust such an important part of the game to a kid who doesn't seem to have the mental makeup.
Exactly and please forgive me for :deadhorse: but that's exactly what Zimmer did yesterday. The fragile psyche you referred to in your post was already apparent. Zimmer ignored it at the end of OT and ended up with a tie when he had the time to give his offense a chance to win it. The "safe", conservative choice bit him in the behind. I think that's important because that type of choice can cost a championship. Make that same mistake in a postseason game and overtime continues. If the opposing team turns around and scores on the next possession, the season is over.

Carpe diem! :)
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by S197 »

Mothman wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:02 am I kiss a photo of him every night before I go to sleep.

Back to the point: if Priefer is to be held accountable for Carlson's negative impact on yesterday's game, then logically, Zimmer and Spielman should be too. If "the god damn coach" on special teams is a problem, as Landon suggested, how does that not reflect on the head coach as well since Priefer has been with the team for years?

Personally, the person I hold most responsible for the missed kicks is Carlson but if we're going to get into coaching and judgment calls and accountability above Carlson's pay grade, it simply doesn't make sense to stop at Priefer.
It certainly reflects poorly on all of the top management. I'm okay with the plan, you give yourself a chance to win while giving Aaron absolutely no time because as we've seen, he only needs one tick on the clock left to score. People just need to do their job.

My pure speculation is Priefer is killing these guys confidence. Walsh was the best kicker in history his rookie season and slowly regressed. We all know there were incidents with Priefer and Kluwe. I also heard there was a tweet earlier this year of a video of Priefer really berating someone that was subsequently deleted.

Zim has a tough style but the players also love him and fight for him. He balances the tough with the heart. My guess is he likes this tough style that Priefer has as it mirrors his own but I think Priefer isn't doing it the right way. There's a big difference between being assertive and being aggressive. Again, I'm not in the locker room and could be way off base but that would be my guess.

As for the draft, my assumption there is Spielman asked Priefer who his #1 guy is and he said Carlson. I have a heard time believing you trade up for a kicker unless your special teams coach is banging the table for him.

I really hope Rick and Zim see the light and make a change, otherwise I fear we'll always be the team that's a field goal away and that is certainly something to hold all of them accountable for.
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by Cliff »

I was a Treadwell backer going into this season. A lot of receivers take 3 years to get up to speed and he has the tools but I can't see that anymore. He's had his chances and I simply can't defend him anymore.

I don't want to "give up" on Carlson exactly but the position is too important especially to a defensive team like the Vikings to keep going with him. Maybe one more game to prove himself at most. How many games do we give him to get it together? How big of a game will he have to blow first?

Is there any precedent for putting a kicker on the practice squad? Is that even possible at this point, anybody know?
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by YikesVikes »

I said it after we cut Forbath. It was too early. A long FG in Denver isn't a true test. Kicks tend to travel further up in that thin air.
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by YikesVikes »

I realize on this board some posters defend every and anything that the front office or a player does.. until that person leaves the organization. There are no mistakes in Vikingland.
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by Dakotavike »

For those of you on here that are defending Carlson because he's a rookie STOP IT!!! Kicking isn't like other positions, you don't develop NFL kickers. You either have the mental fortitude or you don't...period. I don't even mind that they drafted him, the past is the past. It didn't pan out, cut him and move on. And as for Treadwell I agree, this guy has had more than enough time to 'get it.' Forget Gordon, what about Dez Bryant? He's not what he used to be but he'd be a great #3 and may be motivated to play for a contender on a one year deal. Just a thought.
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by mansquatch »

YikesVikes wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:01 am I realize on this board some posters defend every and anything that the front office or a player does.. until that person leaves the organization. There are no mistakes in Vikingland.
Um what? I've been here since Mike Tice and there are others who have been here even longer than that. There has been plenty of criticism. Heck, this board is most boring after a blow out win, there is nothing to talk about. You should have seen this place during the Childress era. Even the wins felt like losses. Spielman's career as GM has been quite polarizing in recent history, although last year rose his stock some.
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by PurpleMustReign »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:21 am New England would not have gone for the TD in that situation. Bill Belichick expects every man on the team, including the kicker, to do his job. It was an extra point. It should have been easy.

We didn't blame Zimmer for Walsh in 2015. Why blame him for Carlson? Except maybe for moving up to draft him. Ugh. Never mind.
I bet he would have if his kicker missed two kicks already. We obviously may never know but I wouldn't be shocked at all if Belickeck would have gone for a TD once there.
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by PurpleMustReign »

ChicagoViking wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:31 am By the way, for all of the legitimate gripes about the special teams' horrendous play this week, one other legitimate gripe I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that we almost witnessed one of the most boneheaded plays in Vikings' special teams history: when Holton Hill didn't take a knee, didn't hear a whistle, but still flipped the ball to the ref post kickoff -- only to see the ref jump back and let the ball fall onto the carpet. If the Packers gunners had been just a LITTLE closer, that would have been a TD for the Pack. Game over. WTF, Holton? WTF, special teams? Luckily, it was a disaster averted and a lesson learned without any real consequence other than looking like a complete F'ing idiot.
I think that was Coley but you're right. That is special teams 101. How does he not know that?
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Re: Vikings Vs. Packers Postgame Thread

Post by Dames »

PurpleMustReign wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:40 am I think that was Coley but you're right. That is special teams 101. How does he not know that?
Correct. It was Coley, and If I'm not mistaken Holton Hill returned the next (and last) kick in OT. I suspect that didn't go over very well with Priefer.
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