Vikings Draft Picks

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tzinc
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by tzinc »

This team has 2 CB they can count on Waynes and Rhodes and that is it. One injury...
Alexander was very weak and had some attitude issues on top of that. And there is very little depth
at CB after him.

This makes perfect sense especially how pass happy the league is now.

1) he does have some numbers that Zim likes in terms of back pedal etc
2) he was great value at that point he was ranked much higher analytically
3) he can return kicks which is bonus
4) Vikes felt there was a lot of depth at OG/C in this draft
5) people must have learned by now that off field issues rarely manifest themselves nowadays in the pros and you know Vikes did tons of research into his


They could always move up in the second to grab an OL if a really good one drops or just wait it out.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by mansquatch »

Venturing into the arena of speculation:

Lets look at the situation at RG/RT.

The Vikings have retained the services of Mike Remmers and Rashod Hill. This is an indication that they feel they can go into the season with these two at RT/RG on some level, but not necessarily the starters. I think between the two we can be confident that at least one will start, likely at RT. (As of right now anyways.)

They brought back Nick Easton, who played LG. This is a sign that they felt he was at the very least a good fit for them. (Whether it be in terms of performance or cap value or both.)

Joe Berger retired. That was not news to anybody. I find it dubious to think the Vikings were NOT planning for this eventuality. Berger has talked about it the past two seasons.

Sirles walked in FA. Given his status as a journeyman/backup I think it is safe to say that if the team wanted him back they could have made it happen. So let us assume that they were OK with this outcome.

So going into Draft weekend I think the Vikings knew what they had at RG. On day 1, they did not draft an OL.

So possible reasons:

1.) Their player eval stunk and the defensive minded coach ran roughshod over the FO to get what he wanted, damn the analysis.
2.) Their player eval stunk and they undervalued these OL
3.) Their player eval didn't stink and they didn't have the OL talent rated high RELATIVE to other positions WHERE they drafted.

A few thoughts:
I think #2 or #3 are the most likely outcomes.

It is possible for both #2 and #3 to be true. Maybe they were right about Hughes but wrong about the OL also available.

This pick could be a result of them having Hughes rated very high relative to what else was available and that made him a BPA / Value pick. (Like when they drafted Adrian Petersen after signing Chester Taylor in Free Agency.) A lot of that comes down to player eval, which begs a question for all the arm chair GMs out there: Why is your player eval better than the Vikings FO? You are entitled to your opinion, but if your opinion is negative, you should think deeply about this question.

A #4 the branches off of #2 and #3 is that the Vikings had a larger group of OL players grouped together, but not at pick 30. They might feel that later in the 2nd/ 3rd round they'll have a shot at some of these guys. If that is the case taking BPA at 30 makes a lot of sense.

Personally, I think they should have traded down, but again, what do they know that I do not? Maybe it is as simple as I said in my previous post. 65% of these guys are out of the league in 3 years and the Vikings think that of all the guys they could draft at 30, Hughes had the highest chance to contribute to the roster over a 5 year window.

Draft is always a crap shoot to some degree.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by fiestavike »

mansquatch wrote:Venturing into the arena of speculation:

Lets look at the situation at RG/RT.

The Vikings have retained the services of Mike Remmers and Rashod Hill. This is an indication that they feel they can go into the season with these two at RT/RG on some level, but not necessarily the starters. I think between the two we can be confident that at least one will start, likely at RT. (As of right now anyways.)

They brought back Nick Easton, who played LG. This is a sign that they felt he was at the very least a good fit for them. (Whether it be in terms of performance or cap value or both.)

Joe Berger retired. That was not news to anybody. I find it dubious to think the Vikings were NOT planning for this eventuality. Berger has talked about it the past two seasons.

Sirles walked in FA. Given his status as a journeyman/backup I think it is safe to say that if the team wanted him back they could have made it happen. So let us assume that they were OK with this outcome.

So going into Draft weekend I think the Vikings knew what they had at RG. On day 1, they did not draft an OL.

So possible reasons:

1.) Their player eval stunk and the defensive minded coach ran roughshod over the FO to get what he wanted, damn the analysis.
2.) Their player eval stunk and they undervalued these OL
3.) Their player eval didn't stink and they didn't have the OL talent rated high RELATIVE to other positions WHERE they drafted.

A few thoughts:
I think #2 or #3 are the most likely outcomes.

It is possible for both #2 and #3 to be true. Maybe they were right about Hughes but wrong about the OL also available.

This pick could be a result of them having Hughes rated very high relative to what else was available and that made him a BPA / Value pick. (Like when they drafted Adrian Petersen after signing Chester Taylor in Free Agency.) A lot of that comes down to player eval, which begs a question for all the arm chair GMs out there: Why is your player eval better than the Vikings FO? You are entitled to your opinion, but if your opinion is negative, you should think deeply about this question.

A #4 the branches off of #2 and #3 is that the Vikings had a larger group of OL players grouped together, but not at pick 30. They might feel that later in the 2nd/ 3rd round they'll have a shot at some of these guys. If that is the case taking BPA at 30 makes a lot of sense.

Personally, I think they should have traded down, but again, what do they know that I do not? Maybe it is as simple as I said in my previous post. 65% of these guys are out of the league in 3 years and the Vikings think that of all the guys they could draft at 30, Hughes had the highest chance to contribute to the roster over a 5 year window.

Draft is always a crap shoot to some degree.
Awesome post. A lot of good thoughts. With player evaluation, a certain group think starts to seep in. Most of us draw heavily from media evaluators, and I find it shocking how similar most media evaluations tend to be. Its almost inconcievable to me, with the incredible number of variables, and strengths and weaknesses of each player that everyone tends to have the same 5 guys in roughly the same order at any given position. Its almost impossible for this to happen without piggy backing off one another, and guarding their reputations by not going too far outside (what becomes) 'the box'. Add in scheme fits and different traits being prioritized by GMs and coaches, depth at position, value ascribed to position, and you are only going to throw those rankings further out of whack. Given all those factors it could well be that the Vikings blundered on some level--particularly galling to me would be the idea that the guard position is simply not worth a 1st round pick--I hope thats not the case if they legitimately thought Daniels or Hernandez could come in a start day one and play for a decade. I suspect you are right that they either have a group of guys at G who they view comparably (which Daniels and Hernandez might be part of) or they just saw both of them as being a significant reach at 30 given the talent remaining on the board at other positions.

Also, we really have to wonder if Danny Isadora might be plan A for RG at this point, with Tom Compton brought in to provide a veteran floor. I recall thinking he did some good things in his limited play last year. Rashod Hill at RT and Remmers at RG could also be a contingency plan.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by mansquatch »

It is also possible that they think one of their projects is ready to take the next step. We as fans always have to remember that almost all information in the sports world is a trailing indicator. Zimmer and Spielman get paid to figure out what is next as soon as possible, not just what was yesterday.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by IIsweet »

Remember the guys name... Danny Isidora.
Isidora, Elflein, Easton for a combination of 3 interior OL positions.
Maybe they like Remmers in there too ???
I like adding rookie OT Orlando Brown to play RT. Thinking McKinnie, Stringer, etc.

I like the pick, would have maybe preferred to move down and take Josh Jackson, but if this is their guy... I am all in.
Living in Central Florida, I have seen this guy plenty. He's quicker than fast and will be a nuisance to try to throw on.
He will be a blanket on guys.
Plus, in his conference, teams throw all of the time and he ALWAYS had the teams #1 guy. AND HE SHUT THEM DOWN !!!

Great pick
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

Cliff wrote:
fiestavike wrote:Strikes me as a smokescreen. You don't want to say, "this guy isn't going to play" to the media and fan base, and you don't want to say, "he's going to replace Trae Waynes". Easier to say, "maybe we can find room on the field for all of them".
That's possible. I think it's a mix of making sure that they've got another good options if they choose not to resign Waynes after next season but I also believe Zimmer would be fine having all 3 if they play well.
Yeah, I think this is more of an indictment of Mack Alexander. In fact, Zimmer was asked that directly by the media yesterday, whether this was a statement about Alexander's play. Zimmer denied it, of course, which probably means it's true.

My guess is they'll re-sign Waynes.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by dead_poet »

IIsweet wrote:Remember the guys name... Danny Isidora.
Isidora, Elflein, Easton for a combination of 3 interior OL positions.
Maybe they like Remmers in there too ???
I like adding rookie OT Orlando Brown to play RT. Thinking McKinnie, Stringer, etc.

I like the pick, would have maybe preferred to move down and take Josh Jackson, but if this is their guy... I am all in.
Living in Central Florida, I have seen this guy plenty. He's quicker than fast and will be a nuisance to try to throw on.
He will be a blanket on guys.
Plus, in his conference, teams throw all of the time and he ALWAYS had the teams #1 guy. AND HE SHUT THEM DOWN !!!

Great pick
He apparently allowed the fewest yardage per coverage snap in the FBS last year among corners with minimum 200 snaps.

Decent athlete, in the 76th percentile SPARQ from what I've read.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by fiestavike »

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
My guess is they'll re-sign Waynes.
Could be. If so, I'd think they'll hit him with the 5th year option imminently.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

YikesVikes wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:Another mock picked Hughes. Brett Kollmann gives a pretty good explanation of why the Vikings would make this pick.

https://youtu.be/mD8JexpYfmQ?t=58m58s
I remember getting crap for saying Waynes needs to be replaced. Brett's amazing but he basically said the same things I was saying.
And I still don’t think they should do it. Waynes knows the defense and has gotten better year after year. With as many loaded teams in the nfc, you can never have enough CBs. Just because we drafted Hughes doesn’t necessarily mean we’re dumping Waynes.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by Dakotavike »

Personally, I didn't love the pick. I was really hoping Wynn would fall to us and when that didn't happen thought for sure Hernandez was our guy. I get the whole BPA thing and with that in mind this pick makes sense. But my problem with this scenario is that I think there's going to be a major run on O-line in the second round starting with Hernandez going to the Giants with the 2nd pick. I know Slick Rick thinks there's depth remaining at the position but is there enough depth to provide us with a quality pick at 62? Seems like a big gamble with our biggest need to me. There's a chance he trades up but that, in my opinion, would be a mistake as well. Should make for an interesting night!
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by halfgiz »

IIsweet wrote:Remember the guys name... Danny Isidora.
Isidora, Elflein, Easton for a combination of 3 interior OL positions.
Maybe they like Remmers in there too ???
I like adding rookie OT Orlando Brown to play RT. Thinking McKinnie, Stringer, etc.

I like the pick, would have maybe preferred to move down and take Josh Jackson, but if this is their guy... I am all in.
Living in Central Florida, I have seen this guy plenty. He's quicker than fast and will be a nuisance to try to throw on.
He will be a blanket on guys.
Plus, in his conference, teams throw all of the time and he ALWAYS had the teams #1 guy. AND HE SHUT THEM DOWN !!!

Great pick
Where was Isidora last season when we had to move our RT to the LG spot?
I hope he makes the jump, but he hardly had any playing time last year even with all the injuries.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by PurpleKoolaid »

After listening to both Rick and Zim, I dont think they will be dropping Waynes. I think he was BPA on their board, and Zim is always looking to improve the D, and he thought Hughes was the best way to do that. I still dont like the pick basically because we had more needs now that needed to be filled. Hughes wont see any action other then special team till at least a year, and his learning curve will be greater then Waynes's was.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by fiestavike »

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:Another mock picked Hughes. Brett Kollmann gives a pretty good explanation of why the Vikings would make this pick.

https://youtu.be/mD8JexpYfmQ?t=58m58s
I remember getting crap for saying Waynes needs to be replaced. Brett's amazing but he basically said the same things I was saying.
And I still don’t think they should do it. Waynes knows the defense and has gotten better year after year. With as many loaded teams in the nfc, you can never have enough CBs. Just because we drafted Hughes doesn’t necessarily mean we’re dumping Waynes.
Have to factor in cap situation and scheme fit. We will know by May 3rd. If they don't put 5th year option on him they are giving up their leverage in re-signing him longterm. I don't think anybody believes they will dump waynes 'just because they drafted Hughes'.
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by cmoss84 »

What would it cost us to move up to the 35ish range?
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Re: Vikings Draft Picks

Post by mansquatch »

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:Another mock picked Hughes. Brett Kollmann gives a pretty good explanation of why the Vikings would make this pick.

https://youtu.be/mD8JexpYfmQ?t=58m58s
I remember getting crap for saying Waynes needs to be replaced. Brett's amazing but he basically said the same things I was saying.
And I still don’t think they should do it. Waynes knows the defense and has gotten better year after year. With as many loaded teams in the nfc, you can never have enough CBs. Just because we drafted Hughes doesn’t necessarily mean we’re dumping Waynes.

I strongly doubt they'll replace Waynes. Waynes has the size to matchup on the outside, Hughes does not. They are both quick. My guess is they will groom Hughes to play in the slot. Waynes did very well last year on a defense where #29 is on the other side and forcing QBs to look in Waynes' direction due to his level of play. That isn't easy to replace.
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