Wright Signed

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Wright Signed

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:01 am

MikethePurple wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:Everyone is continuing to rant about the whole "he made big 3rd down catches" thing. These guys are NFL WRs. There should be no reason they dont make catches on 3rd down. Jarius Wright isnt the only WR that can make 3rd down catches. Does anyone think that Treadwell, Kendall Wright and Coley "can't" make 3rd down catches? Wright was targeted a lot on 3rd downs. I get that. But there is no reason one of these guys cant come in a do the same. It's not the end of the world. It's just that Treadwell wasnt thrown at much on 3rd down (or not in the game), we didnt see much of Kendall Wright to know if he did or not and Coley was buried on the depth chart. But it doesnt mean these guys "cant do" what Jarius did. If Treadwell was targeted as much as Jarius on 3rd down, I have full confidence that he would be bringing most of the balls in.
So I thought it would be useful to post some recent assessments from the coaching staff regarding Treadwell. Zimmer has made several comments recently that don't paint Treadwell in the highest regard. He and the rest of the coaching staff see him in practice, knows the route depth receivers should be, etc. and can give a more comprehensive assessment than we fans can. If he isn't getting opportunities, some of that is on him, not just the fact that there are two good receivers ahead of him. A few telling quotes that Zimmer had in a presser at the combine when talking with PA were:

Regarding his opportunities: ““I would hate to put that on the previous coaches, Laquon’s had every opportunity there has been, quite honestly, at the end of the day. It’s up to him now. Obviously we’re going to continue to give him every opportunity.”

On proper preparation/training: “Laquon is his own worst enemy,” Zimmer continued. “We’re in the middle of two-a-days and he’ll go out there at eleven o’clock at night and run stadium steps. He thinks he’s getting better but he’s not helping himself. He’s wanting to do it and he cares about these things, but at some point in time you either got to figure it out, or maybe get a change of scenery, I guess.”

On his future: “This is his time. Bill Parcells used to have the saying, ‘first year-benefit of the doubt, second year-show me something, third year-out.’ It’s really his time."

Again, I'm not saying that he can't or won't get better but I think it's fair to be critical of his production to this point and what role he has played in his lack of success so far rather than putting it on circumstances out of his control.
I never said that he is completely let off the hook. But I DID say that who is in front of him also needs to be considered. He obviously needs to show more but by no means am I calling him a bust right now. I have already laid out what the "normal bust" looks like. Treadwell hasnt met those standards yet IMO. If he does, I have no problem saying he's a bust. But until then, he's not until proven otherwise. Remember when so many fans on here were saying Trae Waynes was a bust after his 2nd year?? :whistle:

And I continued to say the same thing about Waynes that I am now about Treadwell. Only difference is, Waynes didnt have much in front of him other than a 39 year old Newman. Treadwell has a much more difficult road ahead of him to get more playing time.
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Re: Wright Signed

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:32 am

Vikefan60 wrote:
jackal wrote:Wright was a high pick for Titans right?

For the possible upside I think that is a
real good deal.
First round pick (like Treadwell, but let's not hold that against him).
Kendall Wright had to compete with the following:

Year 1
Kenny Britt
Lavelle Hawkins
Michael Preston
Nate Washington
Damien Williams

...and played 556 snaps which was 55.82% of their offensive snaps


Year 2
Kenny Britt
Justin Hunter
Michael Preston
Nate Washington
Damien Williams

...and played 808 snaps which was 75.16% of their offensive snaps


Laquon Treadwell had to compete with the following:

Year 1

Stefon Diggs
Adam Thielen (dont want to hear the UDFA bull, he started off hot from the get-go)
Cordarrelle Patterson
Jarius Wright
Charles Johnson
Isaac Fruechte

...and played 80 snaps which was 7.60% of their offensive snaps


Year 2

Stefon Diggs
Adam Thielen
Jarius Wright
Michael Floyd
Stacy Coley

...and played 500 snaps which was 44.80% of their offensive snaps (and MANY of those were running plays)


Overall, good joke. The two arent even comparable. Wright had next to nothing in front of him and was given WAY more opportunity than Treadwell had partly in due to what was in front of him. Wright was the best WR going in their year 1 and 2 because the rest of them were that bad. Treadwell had two studs in front of him from the start.

Treadwell had 3 total games this year where he broke 57% or more when it comes to offensive snaps. In those games, he went 9 catches for 112 yards. The remaining 13 games where he was under 57% in offensive snaps, he had 11 catches for 88 yards. That shows A LOT. He didnt explode when he was given more snaps but he played well. When he was given limited snaps, he didnt.

That is my whole point with all of this. Is he off the hook? No not at all. But the statistics above show that he WASNT given a lot of opportunity when it came to in-game play. He was given opportunity in 3 games and the stats show that. He had 2 less catches and 24 more yards in THREE GAMES than he did in the other THIRTEEN GAMES. I'm not saying this guy is innocent. But this is something that SHOULD be considered. It's a rare situation. Not anywhere close to comparable with Kendall Wright, or many other WRs. That's all I am saying. Many just look at numbers and say "well he's a bust". No. Doesnt work like that. Research and you'll quickly find out
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Re: Wright Signed

Post by mansquatch » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:57 am

WR are probably a top 3 or 4 hardest position to draft. They take a long time to develop and a lot of them have head issues that keep them from being able to fully showcase their physical gifts in the NFL.

I think what Zimmer is getting at is that Treadwell is running stadium steps when he should be watching film and developing the mental aspect of the game.

I know fans like Jarius Wright, but the guy was never more than a #3 WR on this team. He is the definition of cap casualty as his contract no longer justified his performance. I'm glad he still playing in the NFL, but I do not fault the Vikings for parting ways with him. His upside was never high.
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Re: Wright Signed

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:30 pm

mansquatch wrote:WR are probably a top 3 or 4 hardest position to draft. They take a long time to develop and a lot of them have head issues that keep them from being able to fully showcase their physical gifts in the NFL.

I think what Zimmer is getting at is that Treadwell is running stadium steps when he should be watching film and developing the mental aspect of the game.

I know fans like Jarius Wright, but the guy was never more than a #3 WR on this team. He is the definition of cap casualty as his contract no longer justified his performance. I'm glad he still playing in the NFL, but I do not fault the Vikings for parting ways with him. His upside was never high.
Exactly. Running stairs during 2 a days isnt really helping you much. I know Treadwell is always on the jugs machine which is good. But watching film is much more helpful I'm sure.

As for Wright, some were saying Kendall Wright was a "waste" or a "bad" signing all because Jarius Wright made "big third down catches"?? Kendall Wright and Jarius Wright were in the same draft class. Kendall Wright has 339 catches in his career. Jarius has 153. And Kendall also had a 1000 yard season. Something Jarius hasnt even been close to.

AND.....we just got Kendall Wright for much less than what we were paying Jarius. I dont have any idea how anyone can say it was a "bad" move and get on Spielmans case for it :confused:
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Re: Wright Signed

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:01 pm

Comparing one Wright to the other isnt really useful. Like you said, while you were defending Treadwell for the 1000ish time, Jarius did get the play time or opportunities Kendall did. Jarius was a decent go to go for us as a WR, hopefully Kendall can be too, but we didnt need another slow wr, who plays slot. Both Thelein and Diggs can play slot better with 1 hand then Kendell can. We need a WR that can stretch the field, and is tall enough to contest going for the ball. Ive seen so little of Treadwell doing that. I hope Im proved wrong about Treadwell, but I dont think I am. I also dont think we can draft a good WR, just like we cant a good QB. We will have to get a FA WR next year, that hopefully doesnt play in out division. And is tall, fast, and has good hands.
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Re: Wright Signed

Post by dead_poet » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:45 pm

PurpleKoolaid wrote:I also dont think we can draft a good WR, just like we cant a good QB.
I could have sworn Diggs was drafted. :D
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Re: Wright Signed

Post by Vikefan60 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:09 pm

dead_poet wrote:
PurpleKoolaid wrote:I also dont think we can draft a good WR, just like we cant a good QB.
I could have sworn Diggs was drafted. :D
:lol: Yes he was. And one of Rick's best selections.
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Re: Wright Signed

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:53 pm

dead_poet wrote:
PurpleKoolaid wrote:I also dont think we can draft a good WR, just like we cant a good QB.
I could have sworn Diggs was drafted. :D
As good as Treadwell is bad :)
We also dont have a lot of luck with WR FAs.
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Re: Wright Signed

Post by Vikefan60 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:00 am

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
dead_poet wrote:
PurpleKoolaid wrote:I also dont think we can draft a good WR, just like we cant a good QB.
I could have sworn Diggs was drafted. :D
As good as Treadwell is bad :)
We also dont have a lot of luck with WR FAs.
Wasn't Thielen an undrafted FA?? :confused:
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Re: Wright Signed

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:37 am

Yeah, but he was a good WR. Worked his tail off, had all the skills needed.
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Re: Wright Signed

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:59 am

PurpleKoolaid wrote:Yeah, but he was a good WR. Worked his tail off, had all the skills needed.
Either way, you're saying we CANT draft a good WR. We did. One of the better ones in the NFL and he's a guy that can play multiple positions. And we did it in the 5th round no less and have him on a rookie contract where we are paying him peanuts. And signing Thielen, how many UDFA's are "good WRs"? Next to none.
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Re: Wright Signed

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:02 am

PurpleKoolaid wrote:Comparing one Wright to the other isnt really useful. Like you said, while you were defending Treadwell for the 1000ish time, Jarius did get the play time or opportunities Kendall did. Jarius was a decent go to go for us as a WR, hopefully Kendall can be too, but we didnt need another slow wr, who plays slot. Both Thelein and Diggs can play slot better with 1 hand then Kendell can. We need a WR that can stretch the field, and is tall enough to contest going for the ball. Ive seen so little of Treadwell doing that. I hope Im proved wrong about Treadwell, but I dont think I am. I also dont think we can draft a good WR, just like we cant a good QB. We will have to get a FA WR next year, that hopefully doesnt play in out division. And is tall, fast, and has good hands.
Kendall Wright doesnt just play the slot. Not sure where you are getting that from. He is similar to Thielen and Diggs. He can play all positions. Which provides us with even MORE versatility. Where Jarius has primarily been a slot only. All 3 of these WRs can play outside or in the slot. And they are just as good outside as they are inside. We dont necessarily need a Mike Evans type WR. We have 2 right now that are arguably the best duo in the NFL. And have had a ton of success on the outside.

You sound like the FO from previous years thinking we need a "fast" guy. And look how that turned out with Troy Williamson. Speed isnt everything. None of our WRs are necessarily blazing fast. But they are crisp route runners that know how to get open and have enough speed to beat someone deep.

And how often did we throw to Treadwell deep?? Pretty tough when he isnt getting the chances to go up and get a deep ball. The only one I can recall is the first play of the game against Baltimore that got intercepted. And it was a CLEAR pass interference that wasnt called. The DB had Treadwell's arm completely pulled down. I'm not going to sit here and say that I believe if Treadwell was getting a bunch of deep ball chances he couldnt bring any down. Again, he needs to get the ball thrown deep to him in order for him to show something. But when he's the 4th read, that isnt going to happen that often.

Listen, I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy. But when he lines up often on the outside and goes deep but isnt thrown the ball, it's tough to bring in catches. How many contested catches did Thielen and Diggs have this year when thrown to deep. Quite a bit. Diggs led the league in contested catches. I dont think Treadwell CANT do that. You got AT, Diggs and Rudy all gobbling up more targets. Along with the RB. We gave him 1 deep shot all year. Thats way too small of a sample size for me to sit here and say Treadwell "cant" make contested deep ball catches. When he is making a 1 handed catch for 25 yards with a guy draped all over him, I would think he can catch contested deep balls. He's currently 0 for 1. I need to see more in order to say he's unable to do that.

He might not ever be given that opportunity. He might get targeted a bunch this year. I dont know. But again, I'm not saying anything until I see more. I'm surprised you havent learned your lesson on that given that you've ate so much crow after practically saying that Waynes was the worst CB on earth after he was drafted. And said we should have drafted Peters who has turned out to be the same idiot in the NFL that he was coming out of college. I continued to say, "give Waynes more time". I continued to say "he needs to adapt to the NFL and this defense". And in his 3rd year he had a giant turnaround. Granted, he didnt have as much in front of him as Treadwell does. That's why I'm saying Treadwell might not ever get the opportunity. But you were done with Waynes. You classified him as a bust. Multiple times. And it came back to bite you. So I guess my question is why wont you give Treadwell his 3rd year to prove himself? Instead, we listen to "he's a bust", "we cant draft WRs", "he's slow", "you're just making excuses for him"....constantly. I guess I made "excuses" for Waynes too but turns out, they werent excuses.

Again, I'm not saying anything until he has more than 2 years under his belt and more opportunity (which he may never get). I'm not saying he ISNT a bust. But I'm also not saying that he IS. He may never get that chance here but very well could prove himself on a WR needy team. We wont know until that time comes whether it's next year or in 2-3 years. If he was a day 1 starter and was terrible, thats a bust. He was never that because of what he has in front of him and they will continue to limit his opportunities barring injury
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