Wright Released

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Re: Wright Released

Post by mondry » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:12 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:Let me ask you then... What would you consider a bust?

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For a first rounder someone who can't start on half of the teams in the league.
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Re: Wright Released

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:52 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:He's a first round pick. Thielen was in drafted and Diggs was a 5th rounder. I get that both of them worked their #### off to get where they are at , but Treadwell is a first round pick that is contributing equivalent to an I drafted free agent, or maybe a 7th rounder. To me, that is a bust. He has no TDs in two yes especially. Even David Morgan has a TD. To me, a bust us someone who doesn't produce to their drafted potential and their lack of productivity is not injury related. Treadwell has one season to avoid bejng put jn this category.

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So if he scored two tds he wouldn’t be considered a bust? And he would’ve easily had one this year if Case threw it to him vs Washington
Let me ask you then... What would you consider a bust?

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I've said it a million times on here. A true bust is a player that gets PLENTY of opportunity and fails. Such as Ponder, Troy Williamson, Jamarcus Russell, etc. I posted the reasons and posted about those players above. The guy has started 8 games in two years. For obvious reasons. Williamson, Russell, Ponder all started 30+. Are we really going to call a guy a bust that has started in 8 games in two years mostly due to having two of the best WRs in the game in front of him? Those two will NEVER be benched. So the only hope of Treadwell getting more targets is if one of them go down (knock on wood). That just doesnt seem like a fair judgement to me. It's not like he's not starting because he is "bad" or a problem or not putting the work in. He's not starting because Adam Thielen and Stefon Diggs are on this team.

If you were Mike Zimmer and you draft Treadwell in 2016, do you EVER start him over Thielen and Diggs? I think the whole plan was, Diggs was obviously a day 1 starter going into 2016 (as long as he continued off of his 2015 season) but Thielen was simply a fill guy as Treadwell got up to speed. I did not (nor anyone for that matter, including our organization as a whole) think Adam Thielen was our future at WR. Maybe as good depth yeah. But nobody expected what he has done in two years. He had 20 catches for well over 200 yards and a TD in the first 5 weeks of 2016 and had a good connection with Bradford. Do you bench that? Just because you have a first round pick waiting in the wings? No. If Thielen didnt produce, then yeah. But you dont bench Thielen as a coach. Nor were they going to bench Diggs. See my point? Many look at the surface of things with Treadwell. "Well he's a first round pick and doesnt have much for numbers so he's a bust". Well lets factor everything else in and find out WHY his numbers arent where they should be. When he starts 30+ games, or heck even 20, then I'll call him a bust or not. But I'm not calling a player a bust after 8 games of starting and only being in the NFL for two years. Not until I see more.
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Re: Wright Released

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:24 pm

I get it but both Thielen and Diggs have missed some time due to injuries, and he just hasn't produced. I'm not saying I am calling him a bust yet, but he's rapidly running out ot chances, imo.

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Re: Wright Released

Post by MikethePurple » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:45 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:I get it but both Thielen and Diggs have missed some time due to injuries, and he just hasn't produced. I'm not saying I am calling him a bust yet, but he's rapidly running out ot chances, imo.

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I'd agree with your sentiment. I don't think anyone is expecting him to overtake Diggs or Thielen on the depth chart but he really hasn't produced when he has been given chances. When Wright was given chances, he did, particularly on third downs last year.

I understand them letting Wright go due to his contract numbers but to me he was much more reliable than Treadwell. It's not to say that Treadwell can't or won't figure it out this year, as generally it takes players a few years to adjust to the NFL, but if he puts forward another lackluster year, I don't think it'd be hard to justify looking for an upgrade on his production.
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Re: Wright Released

Post by Vikefan60 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:37 pm

If we have a chance to grab Christian Kirk in the second round, I'm all for it. Instant upgrade at #3 receiver and possible insurance against losing Diggs to FA in 2019. He would likely also be our new punt returner. I listened to him on TV today and he seems like a really great guy. :thumbsup:
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Re: Wright Released

Post by 808vikingsfan » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:47 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:I get it but both Thielen and Diggs have missed some time due to injuries, and he just hasn't produced. I'm not saying I am calling him a bust yet, but he's rapidly running out ot chances, imo.

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I remember reading throughout the year that Treadwell has been consistently open. Case was a one or two read QB I believe. Treadwell was probably the 3rd or 4th option so it's understandable that he wasn't getting targeted much. From what I'm reading, Kirk is very quick at going through his progressions so I think Treadwell will get his chance to shine this year.
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Re: Wright Released

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:16 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:I get it but both Thielen and Diggs have missed some time due to injuries, and he just hasn't produced. I'm not saying I am calling him a bust yet, but he's rapidly running out ot chances, imo.

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He went 6 for 79 in two games when Diggs was out and caught 6 out of 7 targets. That’s not “great”. But it’s definitely not bad. Thielen and Diggs have had two game stretches that were similar or worse last year. They were his two best games this year arguably. And in the GB game he pulled in that 1 hander for 25 yards to keep the drive going. Point is, it’s not like he was completely absent when Diggs was out this year. He produced. Not over 100 yards and a TD but he showed flashes and the capability of bringing in big catches. If he caught 1-2 balls then that’s a little concerning but he showed what he can do when he is actually targeted. If you think about it, 1/5 of his targets on the year came in those two games (GB, BAL). Over 1/4 of his catches on the year came in those two games. Nearly 1/2 of his yards on the year came in those two games. He wasnt absent by any means when Diggs was out. It’s easier to remember Wright because he had big 3rd down catches. Any idea how many times Treadwell was just targeted, let alone caught a ball, on third down? I can’t find that stat but I’m guessing he wasn’t given those opportunities often. I agree this is the year he needs to show “more” but like I said, it’s tough with those guys in front of him. If he’s given the opportunities I can see him producing. If he isn’t, who knows. The change at OC could work in his benefit. We’ll see
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Re: Wright Released

Post by Vikefan60 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:29 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:I get it but both Thielen and Diggs have missed some time due to injuries, and he just hasn't produced. I'm not saying I am calling him a bust yet, but he's rapidly running out ot chances, imo.

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I remember reading throughout the year that Treadwell has been consistently open. Case was a one or two read QB I believe. Treadwell was probably the 3rd or 4th option so it's understandable that he wasn't getting targeted much. From what I'm reading, Kirk is very quick at going through his progressions so I think Treadwell will get his chance to shine this year.
Interesting. It sure would be nice if Kirk could help make Treadwell look like a first round draft pick.
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Re: Wright Released

Post by soflavike » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:01 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:But here is my thing.....what is expected out of him in order to NOT be a bust? 1,000 yards? 8 TDs? Because I can already tell you that wont happen. As long as AT and Diggs are here that wont happen. So what are we basing this whole "bust" thing off of??
Fair question... I would be happy if Treadwell would contribute as a pass catcher... let's say 400-500 yds. and 4-5 TD's for the season. At that point, he moves from "bust" to "developing".
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Re: Wright Released

Post by YikesVikes » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:04 pm

Treadwell's age helps him here as he is younger than most prospects normally are. He gets another year before bust is attached. However, I have seen all I need to. Treads issues isn't just separation but also his catch %. Its something like 57% or so. You can be slow but you can't be slow and a poor catcher. He has issues timing the ball in the air, a problem I didn't see coming out of the draft. I don't need him to catch 100 balls for 1000 yards. 500 yards and 6 td with Diggs and Adam getting 1000 a piece is more realistic. But I don't believe he will get that.

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2018/ ... treadwell/
" But quarterback Case Keenum completed just 20 of 35 throws with zero touchdowns, two interceptions and a 47.8 rating when targeting Treadwell."

"Treadwell caught just 2-of-9 passes that traveled more than 15 yards through the air."
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Re: Wright Released

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:30 pm

soflavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:But here is my thing.....what is expected out of him in order to NOT be a bust? 1,000 yards? 8 TDs? Because I can already tell you that wont happen. As long as AT and Diggs are here that wont happen. So what are we basing this whole "bust" thing off of??
Fair question... I would be happy if Treadwell would contribute as a pass catcher... let's say 400-500 yds. and 4-5 TD's for the season. At that point, he moves from "bust" to "developing".
This would be MORE then fair, even in PHP eyes I would think. But Treadwell will not be able to do it. The coaches have seen so much of him. The QBs on the field have seen alot of him, but not when he is open. I've often wonder if Treadwell comes back to the huddle and says to the QB 'you missed me, I was open'. And if he did, how many times the QB said, yeah I saw you, but you wearnt so open. I just want to move on past Treedwell and get another young receiver (or a good FA receiver) in there taking 1st team reps. We waited too long with Twill.

And PHP, I know everything your going to say because your about the only one saying them in every post. My being wrong about 1 player, that 75% of the board was wrong about too, does NOT mean thats whats going to happen with treadwell. I dont mind eating crow, I dont like being reminded of it in every one of your posts, thats not very classy.
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Re: Wright Released

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:06 am

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
soflavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:But here is my thing.....what is expected out of him in order to NOT be a bust? 1,000 yards? 8 TDs? Because I can already tell you that wont happen. As long as AT and Diggs are here that wont happen. So what are we basing this whole "bust" thing off of??
Fair question... I would be happy if Treadwell would contribute as a pass catcher... let's say 400-500 yds. and 4-5 TD's for the season. At that point, he moves from "bust" to "developing".
This would be MORE then fair, even in PHP eyes I would think. But Treadwell will not be able to do it. The coaches have seen so much of him. The QBs on the field have seen alot of him, but not when he is open. I've often wonder if Treadwell comes back to the huddle and says to the QB 'you missed me, I was open'. And if he did, how many times the QB said, yeah I saw you, but you wearnt so open. I just want to move on past Treedwell and get another young receiver (or a good FA receiver) in there taking 1st team reps. We waited too long with Twill.

And PHP, I know everything your going to say because your about the only one saying them in every post. My being wrong about 1 player, that 75% of the board was wrong about too, does NOT mean thats whats going to happen with treadwell. I dont mind eating crow, I dont like being reminded of it in every one of your posts, thats not very classy.
But again, you're ready to give up on a guy that just completed his 2nd year. How often does that happen with a first round pick in the NFL? Pretty much never. They were drafted in the first round for a reason. Teams arent just going to give up on a guy after year 2. Especially when he's had two studs in front of him the whole time he's been here. Do you realize how stupid we would look if we just gave up on him, traded him away for peanuts and then he blows up on a team that actually needs him?? So why do it? Maybe after his 3rd year, yeah. But not after his 2nd. Only time that happens to a player is if it was a result of injury or legal trouble. No first round pick is just dumped after 2 years.
But Treadwell will not be able to do it.
^Again, nothing but speculation. But yeah, I would probably bring up the same thing regarding Waynes. Why? Because you wanted to give up on him after his SECOND year. Was that a logical decision that we should have made? No. So why is Treadwell any different? And dont say "you saw potential in him" or some BS like that. You were harder on him than you were Treadwell
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Re: Wright Released

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:17 am

soflavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:But here is my thing.....what is expected out of him in order to NOT be a bust? 1,000 yards? 8 TDs? Because I can already tell you that wont happen. As long as AT and Diggs are here that wont happen. So what are we basing this whole "bust" thing off of??
Fair question... I would be happy if Treadwell would contribute as a pass catcher... let's say 400-500 yds. and 4-5 TD's for the season. At that point, he moves from "bust" to "developing".
And I agree that that is fair. But there is no way I say that it is logical to let him go now when he just finished up his 2nd year. Way too early IMO. Unless we were to get an offer that we couldnt refuse but I dont see that as realistic
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Re: Wright Released

Post by soflavike » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:23 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
soflavike wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:But here is my thing.....what is expected out of him in order to NOT be a bust? 1,000 yards? 8 TDs? Because I can already tell you that wont happen. As long as AT and Diggs are here that wont happen. So what are we basing this whole "bust" thing off of??
Fair question... I would be happy if Treadwell would contribute as a pass catcher... let's say 400-500 yds. and 4-5 TD's for the season. At that point, he moves from "bust" to "developing".
And I agree that that is fair. But there is no way I say that it is logical to let him go now when he just finished up his 2nd year. Way too early IMO. Unless we were to get an offer that we couldnt refuse but I dont see that as realistic
Yeah, it's the "sunk cost fallacy"... he's under rookie contract... give him one more year... but he does take up a roster spot that could be filled with a better receiver. The Vikes signed a couple in free agency. Hmmm.
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Re: Wright Released

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:21 pm

soflavike wrote:
Yeah, it's the "sunk cost fallacy"... he's under rookie contract... give him one more year... but he does take up a roster spot that could be filled with a better receiver. The Vikes signed a couple in free agency. Hmmm.
Well I mean Wright has a legit shot for playing time. King is a fringe guy at best. Either way, no matter what the production is, you don’t see nfl teams give up on a first round pick after two years. Unless it’s for legal reasons or serious injury. And I’ve said before, if AT or Diggs weren’t on this team, he’d be getting a lot more playing time and we’d have a much better judgement of him. IMO, Treadwell is a mystery to me. Which is part of the reason why I don’t call him a bust until I see more or he gets legitimate playing time either here or on another team. If a guy like Jerome Simpson or Michael Jenkins we’re still starting over him, then yeah he would probably be a bust. Because it shows he has little talent. Or if he started week after week and wasn’t producing. But neither of those are the case. It’s a very unique situation.

I want to see Treadwell in a full time starting role to see what he can do. But that won’t happen as long as those 2 others are here. So we really might not see the true Treadwell until he is on a WR needy team. Zimmer can say Treadwell has gotten “opportunities” all he wants but he’s never going to surpass Diggs or AT so it’s really hard to showcase your talents when they are in front of you gobbling up targets. Along with Rudy and our RB. This is simply the reason I won’t call him a bust. “Busts” like ponder and Williamson all got legit shots at starting roles. Started over 30 games. I think Treadwell has started like 8. That’s a very small sample size to classify a guy as a bust. There is no other situation in the nfl like his.

Even a guy like Kevin white. He can be classified as a bust but because of the injury aspect. He’s only been active 5 games in 3 years. A guy like Williamson, yeah he’s a bust because he started 30 games and was terrible. Treadwell has had neither of those situations. He was banged up a little but nothing serious. And he’s only started 8 games due to Thielen and Diggs. If Thielen didn’t blow up, Treadwell would’ve been a starter halfway through his rookie year.

So it’s tough. I’m not saying the guy is legit. But I’m not saying he’s bad. I’m saying I don’t know and that’s why I won’t call him a bust. I want to see him start multiple games. He won’t here barring injury. But if he goes to a team that needs WRs and fails to perform then he’s a bust. If he blows up, then he wasn’t a bust. But we might not know until he’s on a new team. That’s all
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