2018 Free Agency

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S197
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by S197 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:32 pm

mansquatch wrote:
S197 wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:The top FA on the market signed with the Vikings without even considering another team. He passed up much larger offers to be in Minnesota. Think about what that implies.
I don't mean to pee in your Cheerios but I don't really buy this. Maybe the Jets offered him $90M, I can see that, so we got him at ~6.5% less. But we still had to offer a very ridiculously player friendly contract. Fully guaranteed, no trade clause, no transition tag. He basically holds all the cards at the end of year 3.

I believe this was his first choice and the team, culture, etc., made a very big impact but I don't see this as an implication that the Vikings can pick and choose. They may get a slight discount and preference as a contender but at the end of the day it's still about the money with free agents. Maybe if we get Richardson or Tyrann at some crazy below market price I'll revise but right now I think we put up a competitive bid and were aggressive in the market.
Yeah the fact his contract is 100% guaranteed says a lot. But... we see it every year that teams with elite QB play go the distance. Cousins was the best overall player AVAILABLE at that position and IMO was a clear upgrade over everything we had at the position on the roster. The market in the NFL is what it is. Cousins got paid. Next year, someone else will get paid. So on and so on.
Yeah I don't have an issue with the signing, franchise QB's in their prime simply don't hit free agency very often so this was a unique circumstance and the risk/reward is right.

I just don't buy the whole, "I want to raise my kids here" spiel. I think Kirk and his agent are very savvy and negotiated a good deal with a good team. I don't see transactions as a zero sum game, both sides can come out winners and hopefully that's the case but there's also a degree of #### going on. It's not like he came here and signed a 5yr contract @ $20M, he definitely got his.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:17 pm

S197 wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:The top FA on the market signed with the Vikings without even considering another team. He passed up much larger offers to be in Minnesota. Think about what that implies.
I don't mean to pee in your Cheerios but I don't really buy this. Maybe the Jets offered him $90M, I can see that, so we got him at ~6.5% less. But we still had to offer a very ridiculously player friendly contract. Fully guaranteed, no trade clause, no transition tag. He basically holds all the cards at the end of year 3.

I believe this was his first choice and the team, culture, etc., made a very big impact but I don't see this as an implication that the Vikings can pick and choose. They may get a slight discount and preference as a contender but at the end of the day it's still about the money with free agents. Maybe if we get Richardson or Tyrann at some crazy below market price I'll revise but right now I think we put up a competitive bid and were aggressive in the market.
Have you read any of his comments? Watched any of his interviews? His presser?

I've seen them all. Cousins never considered another team. Why do you think all these teams who were supposedly in the Cousins sweepstakes -- Denver, the Jets and Arizona -- signed all of our ex-quarterbacks long before Cousins ever announced his decision? Because they had no chance at Cousins, and they knew it.

And here's something that not many on this board are going to understand, but I DO buy the "I want to raise my kids here" spiel. It has to do with what makes the man tick, and it's not money. Many of you won't buy that notion, but people of faith will. I'll leave it at that, as I don't want to get banned for discussing religion.

I've done extensive reading on this man. He's coming here for all the right reasons, no matter whether the rest of you want to believe it.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by S197 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:46 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
S197 wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:The top FA on the market signed with the Vikings without even considering another team. He passed up much larger offers to be in Minnesota. Think about what that implies.
I don't mean to pee in your Cheerios but I don't really buy this. Maybe the Jets offered him $90M, I can see that, so we got him at ~6.5% less. But we still had to offer a very ridiculously player friendly contract. Fully guaranteed, no trade clause, no transition tag. He basically holds all the cards at the end of year 3.

I believe this was his first choice and the team, culture, etc., made a very big impact but I don't see this as an implication that the Vikings can pick and choose. They may get a slight discount and preference as a contender but at the end of the day it's still about the money with free agents. Maybe if we get Richardson or Tyrann at some crazy below market price I'll revise but right now I think we put up a competitive bid and were aggressive in the market.
Have you read any of his comments? Watched any of his interviews? His presser?

I've seen them all. Cousins never considered another team. Why do you think all these teams who were supposedly in the Cousins sweepstakes -- Denver, the Jets and Arizona -- signed all of our ex-quarterbacks long before Cousins ever announced his decision? Because they had no chance at Cousins, and they knew it.

And here's something that not many on this board are going to understand, but I DO buy the "I want to raise my kids here" spiel. It has to do with what makes the man tick, and it's not money. Many of you won't buy that notion, but people of faith will. I'll leave it at that, as I don't want to get banned for discussing religion.

I've done extensive reading on this man. He's coming here for all the right reasons, no matter whether the rest of you want to believe it.
I watched the 20-something minute presser. Like I said, I think the Vikings were his top choice but it's not exactly like he made some huge sacrifice to play here. Lets put it this way, if his contract wasn't fully guaranteed with all the clauses (no trade, no tag, etc.) I don't think he would be here. Nor do I think he would have signed a longer deal. It's pretty hard to say it's not about the money when you sign a gigantic and rather lopsided contract. I don't blame the guy, I'd take the contract too. Belief doesn't really play a factor, it's right in the terms, he has all the leverage.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by dead_poet » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:01 pm

Looks like Houstn is signing the Honey Badger. 1-year, $7 million. Trying to recoup his value and cash in next year
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by Demarates » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:05 am

So what more do we need : at least one CB and some bigs guys for our O-line.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by dead_poet » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:10 am

Demarates wrote:So what more do we need : at least one CB and some bigs guys for our O-line.
Depth. G, CB, DT, DE, RB, WR
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by fiestavike » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 am

dead_poet wrote:
Demarates wrote:So what more do we need : at least one CB and some bigs guys for our O-line.
Depth. G, CB, DT, DE, RB, WR
That's about right. I would also add S as a consideration in the first couple rounds if they don't think Harris or Kearse are the Heir apparent to Sendejo.

I think the hawkeyes have a CB, a G/C, and a RB coming out tthis year. What is your take on Akrum Wadley and James Daniels? I doubt the vikings go CB early enough to be in play for Josh Jackson, but how good do you think he could be?
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by dead_poet » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:52 am

fiestavike wrote:
dead_poet wrote:
Demarates wrote:So what more do we need : at least one CB and some bigs guys for our O-line.
Depth. G, CB, DT, DE, RB, WR
That's about right. I would also add S as a consideration in the first couple rounds if they don't think Harris or Kearse are the Heir apparent to Sendejo.

I think the hawkeyes have a CB, a G/C, and a RB coming out tthis year. What is your take on Akrum Wadley and James Daniels? I doubt the vikings go CB early enough to be in play for Josh Jackson, but how good do you think he could be?
I doubt Josh Jackson is available at our pick. If he is, you have to draft him. He's a stud. Ball skillz for days. Great wingspan. There's some Marcus Peters to his game. I love him. Some have him as the #1 corner in the draft.

James Daniels is a solid interior prospect. His mirror skills at the combine were a thing of beauty and went somewhat "viral" among draft Twitter. Technically sound already. Would fit in well with our zone scheme. He's quick. Really good shuttle and 3-cone. He needs to add some weight but I love him at the back end of R2.

Akrum Wadley plays bigger than he is. He has good vision and pass-catching ability. Hits some really nice chunk gains. Reminds me a little of a poor-man's Frank Gore with his rushing style. He'll be good as a committee back.

Matt Waldman had a great breakdown on one aspect of Wadley's game: low pad level for extra yards:

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2017/06/05/r ... dley-iowa/
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:08 pm

dead_poet wrote:I doubt Josh Jackson is available at our pick. If he is, you have to draft him. He's a stud. Ball skillz for days. Great wingspan. There's some Marcus Peters to his game. I love him. Some have him as the #1 corner in the draft.

James Daniels is a solid interior prospect. His mirror skills at the combine were a thing of beauty and went somewhat "viral" among draft Twitter. Technically sound already. Would fit in well with our zone scheme. He's quick. Really good shuttle and 3-cone. He needs to add some weight but I love him at the back end of R2.

Akrum Wadley plays bigger than he is. He has good vision and pass-catching ability. Hits some really nice chunk gains. Reminds me a little of a poor-man's Frank Gore with his rushing style. He'll be good as a committee back.

Matt Waldman had a great breakdown on one aspect of Wadley's game: low pad level for extra yards:

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2017/06/05/r ... dley-iowa/
Totally agree.

If there's one thing Kirk Ferentz, the head coach of Iowa, can produce it's NFL-quality offensive linemen. The list of current NFL O-linemen is impressive: Bryan Bulaga, Andrew Donnal, Adam Gettis, Brandon Scherff, Marshal Yanda, Riley Reiff, and some others I'm not thinking of. James Daniels fits nicely in that group. I believe he's #2 or #3 on Mayock's top-5 list for interior O-linemen, and that list includes centers. Mayock actually has him rated ahead of Billy Price from Ohio State.

Akrum Wadley would be Jerick McKinnon 2.0. Very similar size and style of runner. He's also adept at catching passes out of the backfield.

I'd take 'em both.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:18 pm

S197 wrote:Lets put it this way, if his contract wasn't fully guaranteed with all the clauses (no trade, no tag, etc.) I don't think he would be here. Nor do I think he would have signed a longer deal. It's pretty hard to say it's not about the money when you sign a gigantic and rather lopsided contract. I don't blame the guy, I'd take the contract too. Belief doesn't really play a factor, it's right in the terms, he has all the leverage.
I actually think the big contract speaks MORE about his choice being based on other factors. No matter where he signed, he was going to get a huge contract.

There are reports that the Jets' offer was also fully guaranteed. That means other factors HAD to play a bigger role. Cousins cited winning as primary, but he also said he wanted a place where he could be excited about getting up and going to work every day, and a place where his family could thrive.

And you can sit there and say his faith doesn't play a factor, but the proof is in the pudding. He took less money, and he cited his faith as a guiding factor. To claim otherwise is to call the man a liar.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by mondry » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:09 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
S197 wrote:Lets put it this way, if his contract wasn't fully guaranteed with all the clauses (no trade, no tag, etc.) I don't think he would be here. Nor do I think he would have signed a longer deal. It's pretty hard to say it's not about the money when you sign a gigantic and rather lopsided contract. I don't blame the guy, I'd take the contract too. Belief doesn't really play a factor, it's right in the terms, he has all the leverage.
I actually think the big contract speaks MORE about his choice being based on other factors. No matter where he signed, he was going to get a huge contract.

There are reports that the Jets' offer was also fully guaranteed. That means other factors HAD to play a bigger role. Cousins cited winning as primary, but he also said he wanted a place where he could be excited about getting up and going to work every day, and a place where his family could thrive.

And you can sit there and say his faith doesn't play a factor, but the proof is in the pudding. He took less money, and he cited his faith as a guiding factor. To claim otherwise is to call the man a liar.
The contract we gave him is just way to close to what the best possible offer could have been, it's as simple as that.

I'd be much more inclined to agree with you if he would have signed a long term 5+ year deal but instead it's 3 years which is ideal for him to cash in on another pay day while he's still in his prime. He could have taken a much more significant discount like Tom Brady did for the pats. He could have taken less guaranteed money.

None of that happened. So it's hard for me to believe that there's anything more too it than of course he's going to play for the team that went 13-3 and made the NFCCG over a team like the Jets.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by S197 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:39 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
S197 wrote:Lets put it this way, if his contract wasn't fully guaranteed with all the clauses (no trade, no tag, etc.) I don't think he would be here. Nor do I think he would have signed a longer deal. It's pretty hard to say it's not about the money when you sign a gigantic and rather lopsided contract. I don't blame the guy, I'd take the contract too. Belief doesn't really play a factor, it's right in the terms, he has all the leverage.
I actually think the big contract speaks MORE about his choice being based on other factors. No matter where he signed, he was going to get a huge contract.

There are reports that the Jets' offer was also fully guaranteed. That means other factors HAD to play a bigger role. Cousins cited winning as primary, but he also said he wanted a place where he could be excited about getting up and going to work every day, and a place where his family could thrive.

And you can sit there and say his faith doesn't play a factor, but the proof is in the pudding. He took less money, and he cited his faith as a guiding factor. To claim otherwise is to call the man a liar.
I talked about this is my initial post. He wanted to be here and thus signed at a slightly lower (about 6%) price. It's still a double dip contract. The Vikings team, culture, organization, whatever you want to call it gave them first dibs and the inside edge but it was still a competitive bid process.

You're making it sound like he signed a $20M 5-year contract. Reality is he got paid, is playing for a good team, and in 3 years he holds all the cards. It's a Kirk first contract. And again, nothing wrong with that, good for him. I just think it's a real disingenuous spin to say it's all about winning and staying here when quite clearly the contract spells out in black and white otherwise.

He could have easily signed a 5-year deal if it was all about Minnesota. Or left the no tag clause out. Or made part of his contract tied to incentives. None of that happened. He isn't a liar, I believe he wants to be here and I believe he wants to win. But he also made certain he can get out of dodge if he needs to. As he said in his presser, he doesn't like surprises and he made sure he had a very strong contingency plan in his back pocket.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by Norv Zimmer » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:41 pm

I would like to see Us draft Dmitri Flowers from Oklamhoma he would be a big versatile RB.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by fiestavike » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:44 pm

S197 wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
S197 wrote:Lets put it this way, if his contract wasn't fully guaranteed with all the clauses (no trade, no tag, etc.) I don't think he would be here. Nor do I think he would have signed a longer deal. It's pretty hard to say it's not about the money when you sign a gigantic and rather lopsided contract. I don't blame the guy, I'd take the contract too. Belief doesn't really play a factor, it's right in the terms, he has all the leverage.
I actually think the big contract speaks MORE about his choice being based on other factors. No matter where he signed, he was going to get a huge contract.

There are reports that the Jets' offer was also fully guaranteed. That means other factors HAD to play a bigger role. Cousins cited winning as primary, but he also said he wanted a place where he could be excited about getting up and going to work every day, and a place where his family could thrive.

And you can sit there and say his faith doesn't play a factor, but the proof is in the pudding. He took less money, and he cited his faith as a guiding factor. To claim otherwise is to call the man a liar.
I talked about this is my initial post. He wanted to be here and thus signed at a slightly lower (about 6%) price. It's still a double dip contract. The Vikings team, culture, organization, whatever you want to call it gave them first dibs and the inside edge but it was still a competitive bid process.

You're making it sound like he signed a $20M 5-year contract. Reality is he got paid, is playing for a good team, and in 3 years he holds all the cards. It's a Kirk first contract. And again, nothing wrong with that, good for him. I just think it's a real disingenuous spin to say it's all about winning and staying here when quite clearly the contract spells out in black and white otherwise.

He could have easily signed a 5-year deal if it was all about Minnesota. Or left the no tag clause out. Or made part of his contract tied to incentives. None of that happened. He isn't a liar, I believe he wants to be here and I believe he wants to win. But he also made certain he can get out of dodge if he needs to. As he said in his presser, he doesn't like surprises and he made sure he had a very strong contingency plan in his back pocket.
All this will really be well answered in year three. Will he renegotiate his contract and open the cap space to keep the core unit together or will he demand the full $. He's made his statement, he is a 100 million dollar man, he's in a much nicer environment to raise his kids, and has a much better chance to win. If that matters, he'll be wiling to make monetary sacrifices in year 3 if not year 2.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:21 pm

S197 wrote:I talked about this is my initial post. He wanted to be here and thus signed at a slightly lower (about 6%) price. It's still a double dip contract. The Vikings team, culture, organization, whatever you want to call it gave them first dibs and the inside edge but it was still a competitive bid process.

You're making it sound like he signed a $20M 5-year contract. Reality is he got paid, is playing for a good team, and in 3 years he holds all the cards. It's a Kirk first contract. And again, nothing wrong with that, good for him. I just think it's a real disingenuous spin to say it's all about winning and staying here when quite clearly the contract spells out in black and white otherwise.

He could have easily signed a 5-year deal if it was all about Minnesota. Or left the no tag clause out. Or made part of his contract tied to incentives. None of that happened. He isn't a liar, I believe he wants to be here and I believe he wants to win. But he also made certain he can get out of dodge if he needs to. As he said in his presser, he doesn't like surprises and he made sure he had a very strong contingency plan in his back pocket.
Of course he signed a Kirk-first contract. What would you expect him to do?

But Cousins and his agent handled this free agency with about as much integrity as a man in his position could possibly do it.

According to MMQB, at the very beginning of the tampering period, they told the four teams in the running that they should submit bids, like a silent auction. Cousins would consider them and choose one place to visit. That would allow the other teams to go to their contingency plans. Cousins didn't want the process to turn into a bidding war and a circus. And if the Vikings were anywhere near the others in the money, he was going to choose the Vikings. He'd already been here during Super Bowl week, scouting out the area, learning as much as he could about the players, coaches, and front office personnel. He called his wife during that week and said he was pretty sure Minnesota was the right place. He was always coming here.

MMQB also cited one league source that said the Jets were prepared to go all the way to $100 million over 3 years, fully guaranteed, if Cousins had pushed for a bidding war. But Cousins didn't do that. He didn't lead the other teams on. He made it clear as soon as he had all the information, and they all got the second QBs on their lists.

When a man in his position carries himself with that much integrity, I tend to take him at his word. So if he says he wants to finish his career here, I believe him. Obviously it might not work out that way. Things happen. But just because the Vikings can't tag or trade him doesn't mean he didn't give up a lot to be in Minnesota. The Jets would have offered much more if he'd have pushed for a bidding war.

I fully believe the most important factor for Cousins was to go where he was most wanted. After what he went through in Washington, where he never lived up to the ghost of what RGIII could have been, it's hard to blame him. Two different times, the Redskins could have had him for 3 years, $58 million. Instead, they tagged him twice. On the other hand, the Vikings let 3 proven quarterbacks go and gave Cousins the first fully guaranteed multiyear contract in NFL history in order to sign him. I'd say that qualifies as wanting him.
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