Still trying to wrap my head around why...

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PurpleMustReign
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:45 pm

Laserman wrote:How about this : Our defense was simply over rated. I know I know, you can read me all the stats in the world and yes according to stats we might have been the #1 defense in the nfl up to the saints game stat wise. Go back and look at the games we lost and you will see a trend. Long drives with teams that have a good QB. Our defense just disappears at times, especially against the pass with teams with a good QB. The defense is just not as good as the stats say we are. I think our pass rush is the weak link in the defensive chain. It kinda disappears against good QBs.
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Cliff
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by Cliff » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:45 am

It's easy - Philly was a much better team. They put up 41 points on NE too (who was 5th in points allowed this season). The only difference is that NE had the offense to make it a close game and the Vikings didn't. It wasn't about being on grass, it wasn't about being drained from the previous week's victory. It was about being outplayed and out-coached. It was about losing to the better team. Period.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by mansquatch » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:48 am

Well I'm sure our best pass rusher having turf toe in the latter half didn't have anything to do with the pass rush losing efficacy.

The grass thing happened THIS year, but I'm not convinced it is more than a coincidence. The defense was great against PIT at Hienz Field. They lost that game because the offense did nothing and eventually they got tired against one of the leagues top 3 offenses. In fact, I'd argue that offense is superior to the other three I listed and they did just fine against them on Grass. Also they have played just fine in Lambeau over the years and that QB is pretty good the last I heard.

They completely shut down Cam Newton and the Panthers in 2016 and that was also at Carolina on the grass.

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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by mansquatch » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:50 am

Cliff wrote:It's easy - Philly was a much better team. They put up 41 points on NE too (who was 5th in points allowed this season). The only difference is that NE had the offense to make it a close game and the Vikings didn't. It wasn't about being on grass, it wasn't about being drained from the previous week's victory. It was about being outplayed and out-coached. It was about losing to the better team. Period.
I'd argue that they were outplayed in part because they were emotionally drained, but we'll never know if that was the case. I do not feel they played that game in Philly at their peak level of performance. We'll never know if they would have won had they played to their level, but I find it hard to believe that Nick Foles consistently scores 31 points against us over a larger sample size. But that's just me. Back to fishing.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by S197 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:31 pm

They were outplayed for sure but I think what exacerbated it was the defense trying to make plays in the 2nd half. They were burned a lot on double moves and I think a lot of this was the secondary trying to jump routes in order to force much needed turnovers. Credit to the Eagles for identifying that the defense would need to take more risks and taking advantage.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:08 am

This excuse that the Vikings were emotionally drained is such BS. They are professionals. They all had games somewhat similar to this. They had a week to repair, they and the coaches just wearnt compared for the Eagles. A lot of that is on the coaches, Heck the team didnt look good enough to play a regular season game.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by Cliff » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:01 am

I'm sure there were a lot of contributing factors but to me things like "weren't good on grass" or "were mentally drained" are all lumped into the same 'preparedness' category. That is one of the reasons they lost, sure, but in the vein of the main point of the post "trying to wrap my head around it" to me that's easy. The Eagles were better in every aspect of the game, played harder and (seemingly) with more passion, and were overall more prepared.

The Eagles also won the Super Bowl and put up 41 points on NE so it's not a slam against the Vikings - they just lost to a better team (the best team in the league last year, as a matter of fact) and that happens. The defense was exposed by a good offense - actually they were exposed in back to back games by good offenses. New Orleans all but had that game wrapped up largely because the Viking's defense broke down then.

The Vikings didn't just break down and have a team-wide brain fart against some run of the mill offense. The Eagles averaged more points per game than the Saints (3rd most in the league). Their offense was better than our defense and had been all year (even more so when Wentz was QB), we just didn't know it until that game.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by 808vikingsfan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:34 pm

mansquatch wrote:Well I'm sure our best pass rusher having turf toe in the latter half didn't have anything to do with the pass rush losing efficacy.

The grass thing happened THIS year, but I'm not convinced it is more than a coincidence. The defense was great against PIT at Hienz Field. They lost that game because the offense did nothing and eventually they got tired against one of the leagues top 3 offenses. In fact, I'd argue that offense is superior to the other three I listed and they did just fine against them on Grass. Also they have played just fine in Lambeau over the years and that QB is pretty good the last I heard.

They completely shut down Cam Newton and the Panthers in 2016 and that was also at Carolina on the grass.

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I would argue that grass affects the offense as much as the defense. Getting separation, planting, holding blocks. To me, it's just physics (maybe that's not the correct word. Muscle memory maybe?) . Unless you practice on grass, get comfortable playing on grass at game speed, I believe it will make a difference.

Also, I wouldn't say the Vikings have had much success at GB recently. 2-5-1 over the past 7 years at Lambeau isn't very good and that's including last years win without Rodgers.

Yes, they got outplayed and was beat by the better team that day, but I think it would have been a much different game had they played at home.

Since 1982, the Vikings are one of the worst teams playing outdoors (28th). Of course, if the Vikings are playing on grass, it also means that they're playing on the road (minus 2014, 2015) so that also comes into play. But I believe if the Vikings built an outdoor stadium, they'd have much better success playing on the road outdoors. They'd also have a advantage playing home games too.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by autobon7 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:22 pm

As good as the defense is.....they do have flaws. Main one being is that they can't just turn on the switch and dial up a healthy dose of pass rush. I firmly believe that if they could have gotten consistent pressure on Foles the game would have been very close. Instead they made him look like Brady and the rest is history.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by mike2mike » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:33 pm

The Defense hasn't really been given an endurance test and individuals probably were over hyped (emotionally) from the last game and a little bit "dopamine depleted" as others have said.
The Vikings basically dominated the time of possession in every game they won minus the Redskins game and lost the time of possession in every game we lost in the regular season.

So an early INT and a sack fumble and so on put a lot of pressure on them unnecessarily. When a team is up 7 points it needs to lean on the other team. When a team is behind then it may up the aggression a little bit.

In terms of game plan, we are a team that stops the run first and if they are successful they make a team one dimensional. The Eagles came out aggressively and got us off our gameplan to where they were able to establish a balance, particularly after they wore out so early.

The offense could have helped the defense out considerably by pinning the Eagles offense deep within the 20 and giving the defense rest. I think our offense was substantially helped out by a really high conversion percentage on offense the rest of the year and was probably more like the 3rd to 5th best defense that happened to have the 1 or 2 best defensive stars as well because of the offense, particularly Latavius Murray's high short yardage conversion rate which is historically good throughout his career and the entire passing game on 3rd down. The defense saw less plays, less time of possession, and more rest time in every other game.

Schematically the defense made a few big mistakes in the secondary and Kendricks who is a big part of our defense fell a little flat for whatever reason.... but the momentum went against us so it snowballed.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by fiestavike » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:14 am

I think this game called for being more disruptive and less reactive defensively. That's an element the Vikings need to add. They have a very solid defensive foundation. Next year they need to disguise a bit more and force more mismatches and pressure by playing downhill when the situation calls for it.

Also, because of the current rules, when an offense is running those schemes perfectly there is almost nothing a defense can do to stop them. No contact is allowed against the WRs and you can't use aggressivness to punish the QB for taking a decoy role on those RPOs without being penalized. In the old days, you just rush to the QB and knock the snot out of him until he can't play anymore if he wants to put himself in harms way like that. The game has largely been ruined when an elite QB gives you a better chance to win than an entire team of starting defenders, but that's where we are. A Brady or Peyton or Rodgers is literally more valuable than the entire starting 11 for the Vikings current defense. That's just stupid. Also, its really worth mentioning that many of todays elite QBs probably wouldn't have been tough, brave, and durable enough to have had even a modicum of success in the golden era of football. :soap
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by fasteddy » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:41 pm

No walk off flatness,if u look at their last 4 or 5 games this teams pass rush was non existent .The saints offensive line owned them as did the eagles ,also the bears .Daniel Hunter is undersized as is Giffen .We need a better rush tackle and another better defensive end .
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:17 pm

Because this ...

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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by YikesVikes » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:43 pm

1. My memory could be bad as I haven't rewatched the game but I remember us running Murray too often in that game. I felt their Dline was very fast and Murray excels once he is able to get moving. I remember a lot of easy tackles for short yardage ebcause he was never able to get up to speed. Jerick might have been the better option.

2. Adam was hurt more than we let on. He had a very unlike Adam game vs. Eagle.

3. Diggs also was injured and tried to play thru pain.

4. Oline got manhandled. We were simply out muscled. Worst yet, that DLine just got more physical and talented :x

5. Keenum, regressed the last few weeks and once the pressure got to him, he started checking the ball down.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by Demarates » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:02 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
PurpleKoolaid wrote:We lost it for two reasons. We were out couched from start to finish.

Secondly, Philly was a better team. I said when Wentz went down Philly was still the better team and half the people laughed at me. Well, they were. A much better team then a lot of people thought. Just ask Tom Brady.


No way we compete to be in a SB without an elite QB, and right now the only option we have for that is selling the farm for Cousins. We have sold the farm before, but maybe this time it would be worth it. We certainly have a lot of pieces in place.
Vikings were up 7-0 and was in scoring range when Keenum threw the pick 6. The other turnover was also when the Vikings were driving. Game could have been a completely different story if not for the 2 turnovers. It may have seemed like the Vikings were outplayed the entire game but that was not the case. The other thing too is Foles played a near perfect game.
Agreed.
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