Still trying to wrap my head around why...

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Maelstrom88
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Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by Maelstrom88 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:23 pm

This defense played so poorly at Philly? We're they just flat? Are their personnel issues? Coaching? Anyone know yet?
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by 808vikingsfan » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:32 pm

Maelstrom88 wrote:This defense played so poorly at Philly? We're they just flat? Are their personnel issues? Coaching? Anyone know yet?
Some will say it's an excuse but I really think playing on grass affects a dome team. Last 11 dome teams have lost traveling in the championship game. That plus the emotional win the week before.

Another note, if it weren't for the 2 turnovers by Case, it's highly possible the Vikings would've been up by 2 scores going into the half. Could have change the whole dynamics of the 2nd half.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by ocampo82 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:41 pm

there was also some crazy stat about teams comming off a "walk-off" win the playoff game prior were 0-fer.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by PsyDanny » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:00 pm

My own theory is dopamine depletion.

Did anyone else notice how the Minneapolis Miracle had kind of a Super bowl win feel to it? A huge high!

I am sure they were playing off that high for days, with all the adulation, replays, celebrating.

I suspect that this essentially burned out, to at least a moderate degree, the reward centers in the brain, leading to a kind of depressive reaction that took off some edge in motivation.

Almost like so many guys that need a little time after ... to, you know, get things going again.

The time between a big win in a xFCC game and the Superbowl allows some recovery time before getting back to the grind of practice, and building up the neurotransmitters, etc. But this playoff win was something out of the ordinary, and the ensuing days kept those reward centers pumping away with little time to recover and prepare.

There was enough to get the game rolling, but once things started turning "south" there wasn't enough neurologically to respond - they went flat.

Not really about the players themselves, nor the coaching, nor anything else beyond extraordinary circumstances - depleted dopamine.

Frankly, if this theory holds, they might have been better off with Diggs stepping out of bounds, and getting an ordinary FG to win the game. A win, but not so freaking spectacular!
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by PurpleKoolaid » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:49 pm

We lost it for two reasons. We were out couched from start to finish.

Secondly, Philly was a better team. I said when Wentz went down Philly was still the better team and half the people laughed at me. Well, they were. A much better team then a lot of people thought. Just ask Tom Brady.


No way we compete to be in a SB without an elite QB, and right now the only option we have for that is selling the farm for Cousins. We have sold the farm before, but maybe this time it would be worth it. We certainly have a lot of pieces in place.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by 808vikingsfan » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:39 am

PurpleKoolaid wrote:We lost it for two reasons. We were out couched from start to finish.

Secondly, Philly was a better team. I said when Wentz went down Philly was still the better team and half the people laughed at me. Well, they were. A much better team then a lot of people thought. Just ask Tom Brady.


No way we compete to be in a SB without an elite QB, and right now the only option we have for that is selling the farm for Cousins. We have sold the farm before, but maybe this time it would be worth it. We certainly have a lot of pieces in place.
Vikings were up 7-0 and was in scoring range when Keenum threw the pick 6. The other turnover was also when the Vikings were driving. Game could have been a completely different story if not for the 2 turnovers. It may have seemed like the Vikings were outplayed the entire game but that was not the case. The other thing too is Foles played a near perfect game.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:12 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
PurpleKoolaid wrote:We lost it for two reasons. We were out couched from start to finish.

Secondly, Philly was a better team. I said when Wentz went down Philly was still the better team and half the people laughed at me. Well, they were. A much better team then a lot of people thought. Just ask Tom Brady.


No way we compete to be in a SB without an elite QB, and right now the only option we have for that is selling the farm for Cousins. We have sold the farm before, but maybe this time it would be worth it. We certainly have a lot of pieces in place.
Vikings were up 7-0 and was in scoring range when Keenum threw the pick 6. The other turnover was also when the Vikings were driving. Game could have been a completely different story if not for the 2 turnovers. It may have seemed like the Vikings were outplayed the entire game but that was not the case. The other thing too is Foles played a near perfect game.
They were on their own 30,i wouldn't call that scoring range. They were in scoring range on the fumble though.
I believe in the same thing someone mentioned above where they came down from their emotional high and weren't mentally ready, which falls on the coaching sfaff. And Doug Pedersen had figured out Zimmer. It's the second time he has exposed him in as many years and it shows a lot about where I fear the team is going with Zimmer as the head coach (in other words no where). I don't want them to have to start over again but who knows what happens if the Vikings are mediocre next year.

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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by germannorseman » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:32 am

I don't think it was one thing. I think it was a combination of things. I mean we scored our first drive and looked really good. We stopped Philly then the turnover. It was over after that as you well know. I think emotionally we were drained and that pick six was enough to push the emotional dump button for us.

Then we were out coached as well. Philly hit some good passes and we didn't find a way to stop them over the middle. That's coaching.

Plus we lost to the Superbowl winner not the loser. They beat the Patriots in spectacular fashion. The Eagles team was obviously really GOOD. It wasn't a fluke win. So, we are absolutely going to have to step up our game this year if we are going to have a chance. Philly earned it, we didn't just give it away. They were the better team in our game and the Superbowl.

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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by mansquatch » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:18 am

The Defense gave up 31 points. Case Keenum gave up 7 on a pick 6. The 31 points came on long sustained drives, successful deep passes, etc. Every bit of it uncharacteristic of our defense. They gave up 17 points in the first half, plus the 7 from Keenum. That was the most they'd give up in a half for the entire season. 17 points in the first half was more points than their regular season average for complete games.

Now, is someone on here going to tell me that the Eagles offense is better than some of the units we faced during the regular season? Better than the Rams? Better than the Falcons? Better than the Steelers? There is no way.

We layed an egg on Defense. I have no idea why, but that is what we did. That game was lost in the heads of our players long before they ever set foot on the field in Philadelphia. I know people will want to grab on to something tangible, but this is the truth.

Also, the Zimmer era has consistently shown this team lay an egg like this each season. We saw it in 2015 when they got utterly blown out by the Seahawks at home, then almost beat the same Seahawks in a home playoff game. (Thanks Blair Walsh...) The defense laid two other eggs in the 2017 regular season: Against WSH and against CAR. The offense bailed us out vs. WSH. It almost bailed us out against CAR. They were not able to bail us out vs. Philly.

Zimmer needs to figure this out or he will never be a superbowl winning coach. It is his biggest short coming IMO.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by indianation65 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:50 pm

...why the stellar Vikings defense suddenly forgot how to play for 1/2 of the Saints game, and all of the Philly game.

I can't wrap my head around it. Coaches, grass, up in the clouds one week, then down in the mud the next, couple of turnovers, etc.
None of it explains the D forgetting how to play "D."

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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by 808vikingsfan » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:51 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:
PurpleKoolaid wrote:We lost it for two reasons. We were out couched from start to finish.

Secondly, Philly was a better team. I said when Wentz went down Philly was still the better team and half the people laughed at me. Well, they were. A much better team then a lot of people thought. Just ask Tom Brady.


No way we compete to be in a SB without an elite QB, and right now the only option we have for that is selling the farm for Cousins. We have sold the farm before, but maybe this time it would be worth it. We certainly have a lot of pieces in place.
Vikings were up 7-0 and was in scoring range when Keenum threw the pick 6. The other turnover was also when the Vikings were driving. Game could have been a completely different story if not for the 2 turnovers. It may have seemed like the Vikings were outplayed the entire game but that was not the case. The other thing too is Foles played a near perfect game.
They were on their own 30,i wouldn't call that scoring range. They were in scoring range on the fumble though.
I believe in the same thing someone mentioned above where they came down from their emotional high and weren't mentally ready, which falls on the coaching sfaff. And Doug Pedersen had figured out Zimmer. It's the second time he has exposed him in as many years and it shows a lot about where I fear the team is going with Zimmer as the head coach (in other words no where). I don't want them to have to start over again but who knows what happens if the Vikings are mediocre next year.

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Thanks for the correction. Actually, they were on their own 43 when Keenum got picked. Fumble was when they were in the redzone (16 yd line).

I sure hope the ownership has more patience than the fan base right now. I believe the Vikings are at a very good place right now and all it's going to take is the same formula (with learning from mistakes) and some luck. Tied for the best record in the league doesn't seem like going nowhere to me.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by mansquatch » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:51 pm

The issue is Zimmer's teams consistently lay eggs 2-3 times a season on defense. They look virtually untouchable 80% of the time against all levels of opposition. Then they go out the other 20% of the time and can't stop anything.

It would be one thing if they were beating up on the dumpster fires of the league, but then lay eggs against stronger opposition, that would make us a mid-tier NFL team. But that isn't what they do, look at the eggs from this year:

Panthers: Lower tier Playoff team, horrible passing attack / bad OL
Redskins: Poor rushing attack, good to great QB, mediocre WR, injured OL (when we played)
Eagles: Backup QB, strong Rushing attack/OL, OK WR, above average RB

Each of those units is different. None of them possess elite WR or elite QB plays. (Cousins is arguably top 10 QB material.) Carolina was a power rushing attack. Redskins all passing. Eagles more balance. None of them possessed elite skill position players. Only one good OL in the mix.

IMO it is all in their heads.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by 808vikingsfan » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:59 pm

mansquatch wrote:The issue is Zimmer's teams consistently lay eggs 2-3 times a season on defense. They look virtually untouchable 80% of the time against all levels of opposition. Then they go out the other 20% of the time and can't stop anything.

It would be one thing if they were beating up on the dumpster fires of the league, but then lay eggs against stronger opposition, that would make us a mid-tier NFL team. But that isn't what they do, look at the eggs from this year:

Panthers: Lower tier Playoff team, horrible passing attack / bad OL
Redskins: Poor rushing attack, good to great QB, mediocre WR, injured OL (when we played)
Eagles: Backup QB, strong Rushing attack/OL, OK WR, above average RB

Each of those units is different. None of them possess elite WR or elite QB plays. (Cousins is arguably top 10 QB material.) Carolina was a power rushing attack. Redskins all passing. Eagles more balance. None of them possessed elite skill position players. Only one good OL in the mix.

IMO it is all in their heads.
What's the common thing in those games? Outdoors on grass.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:02 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
mansquatch wrote:The issue is Zimmer's teams consistently lay eggs 2-3 times a season on defense. They look virtually untouchable 80% of the time against all levels of opposition. Then they go out the other 20% of the time and can't stop anything.

It would be one thing if they were beating up on the dumpster fires of the league, but then lay eggs against stronger opposition, that would make us a mid-tier NFL team. But that isn't what they do, look at the eggs from this year:

Panthers: Lower tier Playoff team, horrible passing attack / bad OL
Redskins: Poor rushing attack, good to great QB, mediocre WR, injured OL (when we played)
Eagles: Backup QB, strong Rushing attack/OL, OK WR, above average RB

Each of those units is different. None of them possess elite WR or elite QB plays. (Cousins is arguably top 10 QB material.) Carolina was a power rushing attack. Redskins all passing. Eagles more balance. None of them possessed elite skill position players. Only one good OL in the mix.

IMO it is all in their heads.
What's the common thing in those games? Outdoors on grass.
I had the same thought, which is why I wasn't chalking up a win in Philly like many were (not on this board necessarily). Maybe they need to practice on grass more?

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Re: Still trying to wrap my head around why...

Post by Laserman » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:38 pm

How about this : Our defense was simply over rated. I know I know, you can read me all the stats in the world and yes according to stats we might have been the #1 defense in the nfl up to the saints game stat wise. Go back and look at the games we lost and you will see a trend. Long drives with teams that have a good QB. Our defense just disappears at times, especially against the pass with teams with a good QB. The defense is just not as good as the stats say we are. I think our pass rush is the weak link in the defensive chain. It kinda disappears against good QBs.
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