Biggest Need On The Team?

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Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by tzinc » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:24 am

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Re: Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by Mothman » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:37 am

If we're talking about player personnel, it's quarterback, since Sloter is the only one they have signed.

The OL also needs more work and they need a DT.

Beyond player personnel, I think this postseason demonstrated the Vikings coaching still isn't at a Super Bowl level. Plus, they need an offensive coordinator. That's a huge need that will apparently be addressed this week.
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Re: Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by Raz » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:52 am

The SB showed the vikes have some work to do. I think the vikes get beat 8 out of 10 times by either of them.
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Re: Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by Just Me » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:58 am

Mothman wrote: Beyond player personnel, I think this postseason demonstrated the Vikings coaching still isn't at a Super Bowl level.
I think that is a fair assessment. My question is - Do you think they (the coaching staff) have a chance to attain that level of performance? This is not a "Fire Zimmer!" comment. Zimmer had a great year this year, and even in the games that we lost (sans the NFC Championship game, of course) I never got the feeling the Vikings were 'outclassed.' In the year previous to this one, there was so much adversity facing the team that I almost give Zimmer a 'pass' and this year was no "cakewalk," either. Zimmer will obviously be our coach next year, and I'm not unhappy with that. But...given how badly he was outcoached in the NFC Championship game, can he (will he?) ever get the Vikings to the Super Bowl?
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Re: Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:42 am

I wasn't impressed with Zimmer and his staff toward the end of the season. They got conservative and I think it hurt them.
I am wondering about the DL coach (Patterson, right?). With as much talent as we have on that DL, for them go have gone essentially silent for the last 6 or so games, including the playoffs, is inexcusable. I get Griffen was injured but Hunter was invisible, and really outside of Joseph, they all had a very sub-par season.

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Re: Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:21 am

Well with how Philly approached us and New England, I would think that it would open Zims eyes a bit when it comes to taking some chances
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Re: Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by Mothman » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:16 am

Just Me wrote:I think that is a fair assessment. My question is - Do you think they (the coaching staff) have a chance to attain that level of performance? This is not a "Fire Zimmer!" comment. Zimmer had a great year this year, and even in the games that we lost (sans the NFC Championship game, of course) I never got the feeling the Vikings were 'outclassed.' In the year previous to this one, there was so much adversity facing the team that I almost give Zimmer a 'pass' and this year was no "cakewalk," either. Zimmer will obviously be our coach next year, and I'm not unhappy with that. But...given how badly he was outcoached in the NFC Championship game, can he (will he?) ever get the Vikings to the Super Bowl?
I certainly have my doubts. He'll have to coach much better than he did this postseason.

I definitely think they have a chance to reach that level of performance but I also think the odds are against it. A lot will depend on Zimmer's ability to adapt and grow and obviously, there's a great deal riding on who they hire as OC and who ends up playing QB.

There's a trend I always have in the back of my mind when thinking about this subject. Years ago, I researched how long it usually takes an NFL head coach to win the Super Bowl and found if it's going to happen at all, more often than not it will happen in the first 4 seasons a head coach is with a team, sometimes faster. That has been the case for 21 of 32 Super Bowl-winning coaches (and Lombardi didn't have that chance since the Super Bowl didn't exist in his first 4 seasons with GB). Zimmer just passed that 4 season mark.

Since 1981, with the exception of Bill Cowher, 23 of the 24 head coaches who won the Super Bowl did so within 5 years of signing with a team. Cowher shows that patience can be rewarded since he won it in his 14th season with Pittsburgh, although he did get his team to a SB in his first 4 years. He just lost it.

If Zimmer's going to win it all with the Vikes, the trend says it will happen next season or likely not happen at all. Of course, it's just a trend and there's obviously no hard and fast rule about this so he could buck that trend and win the SB in year 6 or 7 with the Vikes, assuming he's the coach that long.

All we can do is wait and see what happens.
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Re: Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:44 am

Mothman wrote:
Just Me wrote:I think that is a fair assessment. My question is - Do you think they (the coaching staff) have a chance to attain that level of performance? This is not a "Fire Zimmer!" comment. Zimmer had a great year this year, and even in the games that we lost (sans the NFC Championship game, of course) I never got the feeling the Vikings were 'outclassed.' In the year previous to this one, there was so much adversity facing the team that I almost give Zimmer a 'pass' and this year was no "cakewalk," either. Zimmer will obviously be our coach next year, and I'm not unhappy with that. But...given how badly he was outcoached in the NFC Championship game, can he (will he?) ever get the Vikings to the Super Bowl?
I certainly have my doubts. He'll have to coach much better than he did this postseason.

I definitely think they have a chance to reach that level of performance but I also think the odds are against it. A lot will depend on Zimmer's ability to adapt and grow and obviously, there's a great deal riding on who they hire as OC and who ends up playing QB.

There's a trend I always have in the back of my mind when thinking about this subject. Years ago, I researched how long it usually takes an NFL head coach to win the Super Bowl and found if it's going to happen at all, more often than not it will happen in the first 4 seasons a head coach is with a team, sometimes faster. That has been the case for 21 of 32 Super Bowl-winning coaches (and Lombardi didn't have that chance since the Super Bowl didn't exist in his first 4 seasons with GB). Zimmer just passed that 4 season mark.

Since 1981, with the exception of Bill Cowher, 23 of the 24 head coaches who won the Super Bowl did so within 5 years of signing with a team. Cowher shows that patience can be rewarded since he won it in his 14th season with Pittsburgh, although he did get his team to a SB in his first 4 years. He just lost it.

If Zimmer's going to win it all with the Vikes, the trend says it will happen next season or likely not happen at all. Of course, it's just a trend and there's obviously no hard and fast rule about this so he could buck that trend and win the SB in year 6 or 7 with the Vikes, assuming he's the coach that long.

All we can do is wait and see what happens.
I'm definitely not buying into a trend to say odds are against him. He has a young team with a ton of potential. So many things play into factor when it comes to winning a SB. Injuries to us, injuries to other teams, how you draft, who you sign, who leaves, etc. No way I can buy into that trend when there are so many other factors that go into all this
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Re: Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by Mothman » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:08 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:I'm definitely not buying into a trend to say odds are against him. He has a young team with a ton of potential. So many things play into factor when it comes to winning a SB. Injuries to us, injuries to other teams, how you draft, who you sign, who leaves, etc. No way I can buy into that trend when there are so many other factors that go into all this
The trend exists. It's not a matter of personal feelings or belief. The odds, if calculated, would be derived from the available data so they exist too (does anybody care to calculate them?). It's simply a fact that the majority of SB-winning HCs (and 24 of the last 25) won it all within their first 5 seasons, and more often than not, in 4 or less. In that sense the odds are already working against Zimmer but that doesn't mean he can't buck the trend and beat them. Heck, maybe he'll win the Super Bowl next year and fit right into the trend!

I'm not suggesting a trend defines who can or can't win the Super Bowl. It's simply something to think about it because clearly, it's indicative of something. 23 out of 24 isn't an accident.
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Re: Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:16 pm

Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:I'm definitely not buying into a trend to say odds are against him. He has a young team with a ton of potential. So many things play into factor when it comes to winning a SB. Injuries to us, injuries to other teams, how you draft, who you sign, who leaves, etc. No way I can buy into that trend when there are so many other factors that go into all this
The trend exists. It's not a matter of personal feelings or belief. The odds, if calculated, would be derived from the available data so they exist too (does anybody care to calculate them?). It's simply a fact that the majority of SB-winning HCs (and 24 of the last 25) won it all within their first 5 seasons, and more often than not, in 4 or less. In that sense the odds are already working against Zimmer but that doesn't mean he can't buck the trend and beat them. Heck, maybe he'll win the Super Bowl next year and fit right into the trend!

I'm not suggesting a trend defines who can or can't win the Super Bowl. It's simply something to think about it because clearly, it's indicative of something. 23 out of 24 isn't an accident.
But like I said, anything could happen. What if Kirk Cousins is our QB next year and we make the SB and he blows out his knee on the first drive and we lose? Like there are so many factors that play into everything. A trend is the last thing I'm worried about
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Re: Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by Mothman » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:21 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:I'm definitely not buying into a trend to say odds are against him. He has a young team with a ton of potential. So many things play into factor when it comes to winning a SB. Injuries to us, injuries to other teams, how you draft, who you sign, who leaves, etc. No way I can buy into that trend when there are so many other factors that go into all this
The trend exists. It's not a matter of personal feelings or belief. The odds, if calculated, would be derived from the available data so they exist too (does anybody care to calculate them?). It's simply a fact that the majority of SB-winning HCs (and 24 of the last 25) won it all within their first 5 seasons, and more often than not, in 4 or less. In that sense the odds are already working against Zimmer but that doesn't mean he can't buck the trend and beat them. Heck, maybe he'll win the Super Bowl next year and fit right into the trend!

I'm not suggesting a trend defines who can or can't win the Super Bowl. It's simply something to think about it because clearly, it's indicative of something. 23 out of 24 isn't an accident.
But like I said, anything could happen. What if Kirk Cousins is our QB next year and we make the SB and he blows out his knee on the first drive and we lose? Like there are so many factors that play into everything. A trend is the last thing I'm worried about
I think you're missing the point.
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Re: Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by mansquatch » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:28 pm

For players: More OL Depth, specifically RT and RG.

3 Technique DT

QB

I think QB will get resolved the first day of FA, in that I do not think they can announce anything before then. It is the biggest need, but I think it is not as interesting or mysterious as it was 2 months ago. I really think Cousins is coming here. If not him, they'll have one of the three that finished the year on the roster.

IMO, 3 Technique DT is the biggest need right now. OL will probably not be addressed early unless there is some gem available in FA.

For coaching: I think Zimmer still hasn't overcome his issue of laying an egg. It has gotten better. This past year I felt like they had two flat performances on defense, the game vs. WSH and a few bad plays that cost them vs. CAR. The offense was bad against PIT and DET in weeks 2 and 4 respectively. I give them a pass on the PIT game as Keenum didn't have a full week of prep. The DET game was hard also in that Cook went down. Against CAR the offense made some mistakes that cost them the game, but they also made plays that almost won the game late.

In the playoffs it was a different story and this is where Zimmer needs to step it up. They fell apart on defense vs. NO in the second half. The Offense and ST made some dumb plays in the second half also that put them in a position to need the play by Diggs. Against Philly they were totally flat. I didn't even feel like I was watching the same team.

New OC is a big deal, they need to get that right. Zimmer needs to evaluate how he did things in the post season and figure out how to be better. This is motivational/morale stuff, so there is not easy solution. What I really do not get is the seeming disconnect between how resilient and tough the Vikings were during the season only to completely lose it in the last six quarters of the playoffs. What is that? How do they fix that? I have no idea, but that is Zimmer's challenge to overcome. There is no way they are going to fire him, so that is what it is. Can he fix it?
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Re: Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:13 pm

Mothman wrote: I think you're missing the point.
I get it, there's a trend. But there are so many other things that come into play that have a lot more meaning than a trend does. The trend means nothing to me. Thats my point.
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Re: Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by Mothman » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:37 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mothman wrote: I think you're missing the point.
I get it, there's a trend. But there are so many other things that come into play that have a lot more meaning than a trend does. The trend means nothing to me. Thats my point.
I'm not surprised.

I think it's too strong to write off as insignificant. It covers most of Super Bowl history and literally all of the variables you mentioned above (injuries, drafting, free agency, etc.) are automatically factored into it and yet we still have these particular results. I suspect it's because, among other things, the results speak to how well coaches and teams deal with all those variables. It likely speaks to vision, preparation, adaptability, etc.
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Re: Biggest Need On The Team?

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:51 pm

Mothman wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mothman wrote: I think you're missing the point.
I get it, there's a trend. But there are so many other things that come into play that have a lot more meaning than a trend does. The trend means nothing to me. Thats my point.
I'm not surprised.
Not sure what that's suppose to mean but I'll leave it at agree to disagree
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