View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:34 pm



This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 Time to move on from Waynes 
Author Message
Transition Player

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 316
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
Slick Rick wrote:
He's only 25 years old and he's actually improved over the years from being an absolute liability in coverage to being pretty solid this year. He hasn't been great and he has been beaten his fair share of times, he's not as good as Rhodes, but Rhodes wasn't as good as he is today for quite some time and he really didn't become the force that it he now until last year when he was 26. I think we have to give him at least another year because of how high his ceiling is and make a decision then. CB is a tough position to play, and probably explains why the Vikings have for the longest time until the Zimmer era struggled with having good CBs.


This actually isn't true. Rhodes had a poor 2016 but a fantastic 2015. I think that was his breakout season because he was dominant but unknown that season. 2016 or 17 was not the best we saw this young man play. He got a lot of fame for the OBD game but in 2015, the gambit of WRs he dismantled was way better.


Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:35 am
Profile
Transition Player

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 316
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
tzinc wrote:
The fact that he improved and played great all season is meaningless to you?

No. I hope that he takes another leap next season. I'm not willing to risk our championship window on the fact that he does.


Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:37 am
Profile
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Posts: 5204
Location: Watertown, NY
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
YikesVikes wrote:
tzinc wrote:
The fact that he improved and played great all season is meaningless to you?

No. I hope that he takes another leap next season. I'm not willing to risk our championship window on the fact that he does.


Well you clearly didn’t watch the Vikings this season. Because Waynes made a huge jump and played better than Rhodes by seasons end. There’s no debating that. Nor will they move on from him. It’s a move that makes zero sense. Period

_________________
Image


Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:54 am
Profile
Waterboy

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:47 am
Posts: 4
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
He got destroyed in the playoffs as did that trash Terrance Newman .


Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:43 pm
Profile
Transition Player

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 316
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:
tzinc wrote:
The fact that he improved and played great all season is meaningless to you?

No. I hope that he takes another leap next season. I'm not willing to risk our championship window on the fact that he does.


Well you clearly didn’t watch the Vikings this season. Because Waynes made a huge jump and played better than Rhodes by seasons end. There’s no debating that. Nor will they move on from him. It’s a move that makes zero sense. Period


He didn't but we will do this dance all day. Rhodes didn't play great. He lost his cool against Thomas but remind me, who did Ginn go 8 of 11 on in the playoff game?


Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:52 pm
Profile
Practice Squad

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:18 pm
Posts: 20
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
fasteddy wrote:
He got destroyed in the playoffs as did that trash Terrance Newman .


The entire defense was trash, even Harry Hitman made terrible early cuts during Nick Foles’ bombs. No excuse there.


Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:07 pm
Profile
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Posts: 5204
Location: Watertown, NY
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
YikesVikes wrote:

He didn't but we will do this dance all day. Rhodes didn't play great. He lost his cool against Thomas but remind me, who did Ginn go 8 of 11 on in the playoff game?


https://zonecoverage.com/2017/vikings/the-improvement-of-trae-waynes/

Try reading this and actually seeing the break down of everything instead of nitpicking stats. Nobody will go all day with you on this topic. Look at how the board has reacted since you posted this. Pretty much nobody agrees with you. Nor are the Vikings stupid enough to move on from Trae Waynes. It might be time for you to move on from this thread.

_________________
Image


Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:49 pm
Profile
Waterboy

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:47 am
Posts: 4
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
Now the Eagles are trading for Michael Bennett ,the Vikes should have been on that or another good end .


Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:03 pm
Profile
Transition Player

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 316
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:

He didn't but we will do this dance all day. Rhodes didn't play great. He lost his cool against Thomas but remind me, who did Ginn go 8 of 11 on in the playoff game?


https://zonecoverage.com/2017/vikings/the-improvement-of-trae-waynes/

Try reading this and actually seeing the break down of everything instead of nitpicking stats. Nobody will go all day with you on this topic. Look at how the board has reacted since you posted this. Pretty much nobody agrees with you. Nor are the Vikings stupid enough to move on from Trae Waynes. It might be time for you to move on from this thread.


"As a result of this recent improvement in play, his cumulative yards per snap on the season is creeping closer to the league-average of 1.08. Currently, his season average is 1.5 yards, but since Week 8 he’s averaged 1.18 yards given up per snap in coverage."

Holy reading comprehension Batman. No one has to agree with me to make me correct. The two are not dependent on each other. I know I'm right despite you attempt to show that he is turning into an average CB.


Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:30 pm
Profile
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Posts: 5204
Location: Watertown, NY
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
YikesVikes wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:

He didn't but we will do this dance all day. Rhodes didn't play great. He lost his cool against Thomas but remind me, who did Ginn go 8 of 11 on in the playoff game?


https://zonecoverage.com/2017/vikings/the-improvement-of-trae-waynes/

Try reading this and actually seeing the break down of everything instead of nitpicking stats. Nobody will go all day with you on this topic. Look at how the board has reacted since you posted this. Pretty much nobody agrees with you. Nor are the Vikings stupid enough to move on from Trae Waynes. It might be time for you to move on from this thread.


"As a result of this recent improvement in play, his cumulative yards per snap on the season is creeping closer to the league-average of 1.08. Currently, his season average is 1.5 yards, but since Week 8 he’s averaged 1.18 yards given up per snap in coverage."

Holy reading comprehension Batman. No one has to agree with me to make me correct. The two are not dependent on each other. I know I'm right despite you attempt to show that he is turning into an average CB.


Lol you aren’t right. Yeah he’s an average CB right now that’s an elite run defender. But according to you we should “move on from him”. Good business decision Rick? He’s not a shut down but he’s not bad by any means and is elite vs the run. He’s gotten better every year. But yeah let’s get rid of a guy right when he starts to get better. Trust me, when nobody agrees with you, you are not correct. As much as you think you are. Moving on from him wont happen. It’s not gonna happen. So you talking about it is pointless. Period. You’re arguing something that won’t happen and nobody agrees with you on. So what are you trying to prove? Throw the towel in and move on

_________________
Image


Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:30 am
Profile
Transition Player

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 316
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
Lol. Improving from being horrible and a walking completion in 2016 to being below average isn't something you clap on. His replacement needs to be addressed and groomed. As for discussing it, I thought this was a discussion board. There are a lot of things the Vikes should do and don't. Us fans can see it but they for what ever reasons cannot act on it ( financial, long term goals, relationship, team moral etc). As for being the lone voice of reason, it happens. I know the game, I've played the game and I can tell you that Wayne's will be serviceable at best. He simply isn't good and he should be replaced in the starting line up. Not saying he will be but he should be. I'll see you next season when you're eatting crow. I'll bookbookmark this to get a.... you were right but I doubt you're classy enough to admit being wrong.


Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:58 am
Profile
Transition Player

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 316
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
I remember the Ponder and Khalil apologists. "He's improving, look at stat X, it shows growth"

Lol


Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:00 am
Profile
Starter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:21 am
Posts: 121
Location: Sleepy Eye, Minnesota
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
Because being average but great on the run is a bad thing?

Holy Toledo fellas, we gotta get rid of everybody not named Rhodes at the Cornerback position if that's the case!!!


Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:05 am
Profile
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Posts: 5204
Location: Watertown, NY
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
YikesVikes wrote:
Lol. Improving from being horrible and a walking completion in 2016 to being below average isn't something you clap on. His replacement needs to be addressed and groomed. As for discussing it, I thought this was a discussion board. There are a lot of things the Vikes should do and don't. Us fans can see it but they for what ever reasons cannot act on it ( financial, long term goals, relationship, team moral etc). As for being the lone voice of reason, it happens. I know the game, I've played the game and I can tell you that Wayne's will be serviceable at best. He simply isn't good and he should be replaced in the starting line up. Not saying he will be but he should be. I'll see you next season when you're eatting crow. I'll bookbookmark this to get a.... you were right but I doubt you're classy enough to admit being wrong.


Showing how he played towards the end of the year wasnt "below average" first of all. That is just your opinion.

Us fans see a lot of things but wouldnt you think that scouts, coaches and front office know a little more than we do?? I would think so. If you were such a good judgement of talent then maybe you chose the wrong profession in life.

Listen, I know the game, I've played the game. In high school and in college. Just because you've played the game doesnt mean you're a better judgement of talent than everyone on here disagreeing with you. It means nothing. Most fans on this board have played football in their life I would imagine. So stop acting like you're above guys commenting on this thread because "you know and have played the game". It makes you sound arrogant.

And thats what you're shooting for? That much pride in your own opinion that you cant wait for me to tell you "you're right". Well you've got high hopes pal. Because everyone else on here can see the improvement that Waynes made except you. And that improvement is going to continue. And when it does, I can tell that just by the way you're acting, you'll be absent from this board when it all happens. He was the #3 most targeted CB in the NFL and still held his own. Weird. You're drawing dead at this point man. Nothing you say is going to prove something. We all know what he did and what he showed. And we all believe he made a huge jump and will continue that. So you continuing to argue this is just you beating a dead horse. You're getting nowhere. Understand that, and let his play do the talking.

_________________
Image


Last edited by Pondering Her Percy on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:59 am
Profile
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Posts: 5204
Location: Watertown, NY
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
Rhodes Closed wrote:
Because being average but great on the run is a bad thing?

Holy Toledo fellas, we gotta get rid of everybody not named Rhodes at the Cornerback position if that's the case!!!


Yeah supposedly! We had the #2 pass defense in the NFL but Waynes is terrible and is a huge liability :roll: Yup makes total sense. It must be Rhodes that covers both sides of the field at the same time because I dont know how else we would've gotten that ranking. Hmmmm....

_________________
Image


Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:02 am
Profile
Transition Player

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 316
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
Rhodes Closed wrote:
Because being average but great on the run is a bad thing?

Holy Toledo fellas, we gotta get rid of everybody not named Rhodes at the Cornerback position if that's the case!!!


Below average. I see you trying to make a case for him. Good teams continue to get better. For instance, possibly the best pass rushing team from last year, just traded for another pass rusher. Oh yeah, they won the chip and humbled us. Good teams identify needs and make moves to fix deficiencies.


Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:46 pm
Profile
Transition Player

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 316
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Rhodes Closed wrote:
Because being average but great on the run is a bad thing?

Holy Toledo fellas, we gotta get rid of everybody not named Rhodes at the Cornerback position if that's the case!!!


Yeah supposedly! We had the #2 pass defense in the NFL but Waynes is terrible and is a huge liability :roll: Yup makes total sense. It must be Rhodes that covers both sides of the field at the same time because I dont know how else we would've gotten that ranking. Hmmmm....


Number 2 in spite of his inability to cover. Your link addressed how poor he played. We might be number one with an upgrade and...Might win a chip.


Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:47 pm
Profile
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Posts: 5204
Location: Watertown, NY
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
YikesVikes wrote:

Number 2 in spite of his inability to cover. Your link addressed how poor he played. We might be number one with an upgrade and...Might win a chip.


Yup, I'm sure that will win us a SB :roll: And the link showed how poor he played at first, and how much he improved as time went on if you actually read it. Either way, you wont win this argument....against anyone. You're drawing dead at this point

_________________
Image


Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:58 am
Profile
Transition Player

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 316
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:

Number 2 in spite of his inability to cover. Your link addressed how poor he played. We might be number one with an upgrade and...Might win a chip.


Yup, I'm sure that will win us a SB :roll: And the link showed how poor he played at first, and how much he improved as time went on if you actually read it. Either way, you wont win this argument....against anyone. You're drawing dead at this point


The link showed he improved for less than half a season. :appl: A top passing defensive team just traded for two cbs but... were good :rofl:. Pass the koolaid


Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:01 am
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:51 pm
Posts: 8262
Location: Kentucky
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
Image

_________________
"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson


Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:18 am
Profile
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Posts: 5204
Location: Watertown, NY
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
YikesVikes wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:

Number 2 in spite of his inability to cover. Your link addressed how poor he played. We might be number one with an upgrade and...Might win a chip.


Yup, I'm sure that will win us a SB :roll: And the link showed how poor he played at first, and how much he improved as time went on if you actually read it. Either way, you wont win this argument....against anyone. You're drawing dead at this point


The link showed he improved for less than half a season. :appl: A top passing defensive team just traded for two cbs but... were good :rofl:. Pass the koolaid


The Rams were middle of the road in pass defense first of all. And secondly they let their best CB go and had no #2 along with him to begin with. So in turn, using that to defend your argument makes no sense. Give it a rest.

_________________
Image


Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:37 am
Profile
Transition Player

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 316
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
They were 7th and 11th in qb rating and yards per attempt. So yes they were a top passing defense. We don't have a number 2 either :rofl: they let Johnson walk but they addressed both Corner positions. Both.


Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:20 pm
Profile
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Posts: 5204
Location: Watertown, NY
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
YikesVikes wrote:
They were 7th and 11th in qb rating and yards per attempt. So yes they were a top passing defense. We don't have a number 2 either :rofl: they let Johnson walk but they addressed both Corner positions. Both.


Again, this is nowhere near the same situation. And if we didn’t have a number two, we’d probably be drafting a CB early or signing a big FA. My guess is, it’s not happening so I would say we have a pretty good #2 then!

_________________
Image


Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:19 pm
Profile
Transition Player

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 316
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:
They were 7th and 11th in qb rating and yards per attempt. So yes they were a top passing defense. We don't have a number 2 either :rofl: they let Johnson walk but they addressed both Corner positions. Both.


Again, this is nowhere near the same situation. And if we didn’t have a number two, we’d probably be drafting a CB early or signing a big FA. My guess is, it’s not happening so I would say we have a pretty good #2 then!


That's a logical fallacy. Point A being true (not drafting a CB high) doesn't make point B true (we have a pretty good #2).
Let's make this easy. Would you consider Waynes a strength of this team? If not, then a consideration to improve at his spot, should not be dismissed. So is he a strength to you?


Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:18 pm
Profile
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Posts: 5204
Location: Watertown, NY
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
YikesVikes wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
YikesVikes wrote:
They were 7th and 11th in qb rating and yards per attempt. So yes they were a top passing defense. We don't have a number 2 either :rofl: they let Johnson walk but they addressed both Corner positions. Both.


Again, this is nowhere near the same situation. And if we didn’t have a number two, we’d probably be drafting a CB early or signing a big FA. My guess is, it’s not happening so I would say we have a pretty good #2 then!


That's a logical fallacy. Point A being true (not drafting a CB high) doesn't make point B true (we have a pretty good #2).
Let's make this easy. Would you consider Waynes a strength of this team? If not, then a consideration to improve at his spot, should not be dismissed. So is he a strength to you?


Lol god you just won’t quit. His run support? Massive strength. Coverage wise, he’s average and showing improvement. Either way, no matter what I think or you think, it’s not happening. So why are we even discussing it? Enough already

_________________
Image


Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:26 pm
Profile
Starting Wide Receiver
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Posts: 18357
Location: Crystal, MN
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
Waynes's game is almost identical to Winfield's. Awesome at run defense, mediocre in coverage, and doesn't miss many tackles. He isn't shutdown, but he's damn good and a great compliment to Rhodes.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

_________________
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2017 #BringitHome‬


Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:04 pm
Profile YIM WWW
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Posts: 5204
Location: Watertown, NY
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Waynes's game is almost identical to Winfield's. Awesome at run defense, mediocre in coverage, and doesn't miss many tackles. He isn't shutdown, but he's damn good and a great compliment to Rhodes.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk


Thank you I’m glad someone finally chimed in here. Agreed completely

_________________
Image


Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:09 pm
Profile
Starting Wide Receiver
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 pm
Posts: 18357
Location: Crystal, MN
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Waynes's game is almost identical to Winfield's. Awesome at run defense, mediocre in coverage, and doesn't miss many tackles. He isn't shutdown, but he's damn good and a great compliment to Rhodes.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk


Thank you I’m glad someone finally chimed in here. Agreed completely
I the OPs defense, Waynes allows completions, but rarely allows YAC. He's always around the ball, and I think he's getting better adult defending passes. I am anxious to see how he does this year.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

_________________
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2017 #BringitHome‬


Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:12 pm
Profile YIM WWW
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am
Posts: 5204
Location: Watertown, NY
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Waynes's game is almost identical to Winfield's. Awesome at run defense, mediocre in coverage, and doesn't miss many tackles. He isn't shutdown, but he's damn good and a great compliment to Rhodes.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk


Thank you I’m glad someone finally chimed in here. Agreed completely
I the OPs defense, Waynes allows completions, but rarely allows YAC. He's always around the ball, and I think he's getting better adult defending passes. I am anxious to see how he does this year.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk


He’s definitely getting better defending passes. It showed at the end of last season. But to say we should cut him is absurd IMO

_________________
Image


Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:16 pm
Profile
Transition Player

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 316
Post Re: Time to move on from Waynes
When you start describing a CBs strengths with "he's good in run support"
Not saying run support isn't important but geez. Give me a technical break down of his skills set in coverage or something.
I would wager that he isn't average in coverage. Our disagreement is that I believe that he won't hit his potential (if he ever). Our pass rush hides a lot of his inconsistencies and result in over and underthrows by opposing QBs. When they pass rush doesn't get there, he's burnt toast more often than not.
:deadhorse:


Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:43 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.   [ 87 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.